Futbol Talk

[BM1090]

So it was a pretty cool experience to be there. Electric at the beginning, but the second half was fairly dull. Arrowhead is a decent venue, but the stadium site is godawful.

Got stuck in their grass field lot for 3 hours after Packers Chiefs a few years ago.

[MUBurrow]

Also, I want to mention that I'm glad Uruguay's goal stood.  I am really hating goals getting called back because VAR revealed a guy's arm was in front of the last defender's leg or whatever. I get that once you are looking at it on replay, you can't hardly let even the smallest infraction stand, but its really not in the spirit of the thing. Its like when a replay reverses a steal because the guy's hand ever so briefly comes off the bag or when there's something small wrong with a tag when the throw cleanly beats the runner.

[jesmu84]

Also, I want to mention that I'm glad Uruguay's goal stood.  I am really hating goals getting called back because VAR revealed a guy's arm was in front of the last defender's leg or whatever. I get that once you are looking at it on replay, you can't hardly let even the smallest infraction stand, but its really not in the spirit of the thing. Its like when a replay reverses a steal because the guy's hand ever so briefly comes off the bag or when there's something small wrong with a tag when the throw cleanly beats the runner.

Do you want to get the calls correct or allow a margin of error in the sport?

Big difference between a goal in soccer vs steal in baseball

[MUBurrow]

Do you want to get the calls correct or allow a margin of error in the sport?

Big difference between a goal in soccer vs steal in baseball

I know this isn't answering your question, but I think part of what I really hate is the "any part of the body" rule, and I wonder if that would be the rule if it had been written with the benefit of VAR. 

[jesmu84]

I know this isn't answering your question, but I think part of what I really hate is the "any part of the body" rule, and I wonder if that would be the rule if it had been written with the benefit of VAR.

I think it's not "any" part, but any part which can legally play the ball.

But I get what you're saying.

[MUBurrow]

I think it's not "any" part, but any part which can legally play the ball.

But I get what you're saying.

You're right, that's a meaningful correction - its everything except arms and hands.  But yeah, its just that I feel like there's a bit of an obscenity standard to "the perfect run" and calling a goal back on VAR because a guy was leaning forward or whatever kinda blows.  I think the hardest thing with replay in any sport is to use it to get the calls right, but not so much that it makes you question your reality when watching live.  E.g. use it for "was that a catch?" but not for "don't celebrate until replay shows it wasn't not a catch."  And I feel like VAR is starting to trend on the wrong side of that line.  Like I said, once you are looking at it, you have to get it right, so I don't know the answer.

[Its DJOver]

Do you want to get the calls correct or allow a margin of error in the sport?

Big difference between a goal in soccer vs steal in baseball

Honestly, I'd allow a margin of error.

For the longest time before VAR there would be replays of goals and pundits/ex officials/ rules experts would all say the same phrase; "If you're level with the last defender you're on". There's not anything official in the rules about being level, by definition, offsides is a black/white decision.  You're either on or off. Since there was no VAR, they would give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in those situations where you need VAR to tell because it's too close to call on the field. It think that interpretation was much more in line with the "spirit of the game".

VAR is fine for goal line technology, handballs (if they ever get those rules sorted out, but that's another discussion), fouls in the build up to a goal, checking yellow vs red card, and violent conduct off the ball that the ref may have not seen. Doing all the millimeter offsides stuff when, by the way, you can't tell the exact frame that the ball left the passers foot does not line up with the spirit of the game IMO. I know it's unlikely to change now that's its been implemented, the margins that we're seeing just seem way overly trivial to me.

[MUfan12]

I don't want VAR looking at yellow/red decisions. The way it's implemented skews towards red every time. Way too much ability to change games.

[Its DJOver]

I don't want VAR looking at yellow/red decisions. The way it's implemented skews towards red every time. Way too much ability to change games.

Not really, literally every yellow is automatically reviewed by the VAR official and the vast majority remain yellow.  There's just never any mention of those instances because they never make headlines. 

The only time we ever hear anything is when the VAR official thinks the on-field should at least take another look.  Those instances skew red more often than not, but deservedly so IMO. 

Look back at the Chris Richards "foul" vs Brazil. On-Field gave a yellow, VAR told him to take a second look, ended up being no foul, rightfully so.  Textbook example of how VAR should be used and how officials shouldn't have an ego that doesn't allow them to admit mistakes.   

[Pakuni]

Honestly, I'd allow a margin of error.

For the longest time before VAR there would be replays of goals and pundits/ex officials/ rules experts would all say the same phrase; "If you're level with the last defender you're on". There's not anything official in the rules about being level, by definition, offsides is a black/white decision.  You're either on or off. Since there was no VAR, they would give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in those situations where you need VAR to tell because it's too close to call on the field. It think that interpretation was much more in line with the "spirit of the game".

VAR is fine for goal line technology, handballs (if they ever get those rules sorted out, but that's another discussion), fouls in the build up to a goal, checking yellow vs red card, and violent conduct off the ball that the ref may have not seen. Doing all the millimeter offsides stuff when, by the way, you can't tell the exact frame that the ball left the passers foot does not line up with the spirit of the game IMO. I know it's unlikely to change now that's its been implemented, the margins that we're seeing just seem way overly trivial to me.

The problem, IMO, is that if you have a system in which VAR can review offsides decisions, then you have to let it always overturn if it shows a player is even a little offsides. I don't know how you allow a system that says, "Well, yeah, he's offsides, but only by a little, so we'll let it go." Then you've got chaos - well, more chaos - with a bunch of different replay officials having a bunch of different interpretations of what's an acceptable level of offsides.
They should just get rid of using VAR for offsides decisions. But you're either all in or you're all out.

[jesmu84]

Honestly, I'd allow a margin of error.

For the longest time before VAR there would be replays of goals and pundits/ex officials/ rules experts would all say the same phrase; "If you're level with the last defender you're on". There's not anything official in the rules about being level, by definition, offsides is a black/white decision.  You're either on or off. Since there was no VAR, they would give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in those situations where you need VAR to tell because it's too close to call on the field. It think that interpretation was much more in line with the "spirit of the game".

VAR is fine for goal line technology, handballs (if they ever get those rules sorted out, but that's another discussion), fouls in the build up to a goal, checking yellow vs red card, and violent conduct off the ball that the ref may have not seen. Doing all the millimeter offsides stuff when, by the way, you can't tell the exact frame that the ball left the passers foot does not line up with the spirit of the game IMO. I know it's unlikely to change now that's its been implemented, the margins that we're seeing just seem way overly trivial to me.

I believe in Europe there are now sensors in the ball to tell the exact frame when the ball is contacted

[jesmu84]

I don't want VAR looking at yellow/red decisions. The way it's implemented skews towards red every time. Way too much ability to change games.

Eh. They got Weah's red correct cause of VAR.

I wish VAR had interceded in Adam's yellow last night since he was the one who got stepped on

[Its DJOver]

The problem, IMO, is that if you have a system in which VAR can review offsides decisions, then you have to let it always overturn if it shows a player is even a little offsides. I don't know how you allow a system that says, "Well, yeah, he's offsides, but only by a little, so we'll let it go." Then you've got chaos - well, more chaos - with a bunch of different replay officials having a bunch of different interpretations of what's an acceptable level of offsides.
They should just get rid of using VAR for offsides decisions. But you're either all in or you're all out.

I don't think it will happen because we've already gone too far, but if you reduce the precision you could come to a middle ground.  Look at basketball, there's a general acceptance that when reviewing if there's a "it's too close to call", they just go with the call on the floor.  Give the VAR ref 30 seconds worth of replays to make a decision.  Full speed replays, no slow-mo, no drawing lines.  If they can't tell based on the half dozen looks they'd be able to get in that time, just say it's too close to call and go with the on field decision. Again, I know it won't happen, but that would solve a lot of the over-precision angst IMO.

I believe in Europe there are now sensors in the ball to tell the exact frame when the ball is contacted

Did not know that, thanks.  Be curious to learn more about how it works/syncs with the TV replays.

[MUfan12]

Eh. They got Weah's red correct cause of VAR.

I wish VAR had interceded in Adam's yellow last night since he was the one who got stepped on

Sure, my problem with it is using still frames or slow motion to determine whether a tackle rises to a red card offense, like in England. Of course those incidents will look worse slowed down.

[jesmu84]

Sure, my problem with it is using still frames or slow motion to determine whether a tackle rises to a red card offense, like in England. Of course those incidents will look worse slowed down.

I understand that.

We could solve a lot of this by just providing more on-field refs.

6 eyeballs vs 22 players and a giant field

[Pakuni]

I understand that.

We could solve a lot of this by just providing more on-field refs.

6 eyeballs vs 22 players and a giant field

Yep, said this a while ago. Soccer officials have way more players/turf to cover than their counterparts in any other sport (recognizing that 90% of the calls in a baseball game take place within the diamond).

Regarding slow-mo making things appear worse, I would imagine the officials are no less aware of this than the rest of us.

[MuggsyB]

Best South American cuisine?  I assume most would go with Peruvian but Brazilian food is more diverse. 

[The Sultan]

Best South American cuisine?  I assume most would go with Peruvian but Brazilian food is more diverse. 

Please keep this on topic instead of your usual nonsense.

[MuggsyB]

Please keep this on topic instead of your usual nonsense.

Calm down Fluffy.  Have an Arepa or Empanada.  And then refocus on a number of issues. 

[jesmu84]

Calm down Fluffy.  Have an Arepa or Empanada.  And then refocus on a number of issues.

He's correct. Go start another thread

[JWags85]

Calm down Fluffy.  Have an Arepa or Empanada.  And then refocus on a number of issues.

No he's right.  You've no actual knowledge of soccer yet you bomb in with random statements and exaggerations and now you're bringing up cuisine in a sports discussion.  There are a myriad of threads in Superbar, many started by you, you don't need to post in every one, knowledge of the topic or not.

[MuggsyB]

No he's right.  You've no actual knowledge of soccer yet you bomb in with random statements and exaggerations and now you're bringing up cuisine in a sports discussion.  There are a myriad of threads in Superbar, many started by you, you don't need to post in every one, knowledge of the topic or not.

I think some of you are projecting your frustrations on a innocuous comment. 

[brewcity77]

I think some of you are projecting your frustrations on a innocuous comment.

A comment that doesn't belong in this thread.

[Its DJOver]

Playing the victim card, how very on brand.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Just let him introduce his five point flan.

Anyway, I'm on team all or none when it comes to VAR because the sacrifice we were supposed to make in slowing down the game with reviews is that it would be ensuring less tainted outcomes. But as far as I can tell controversy is just redirected into dissecting a game of inches that still somehow aren't totally enforced consistently.

And I'm not really sure how you solve that with all the governing bodies around the world