Futbol Talk

[panda]

MLS couldn't have asked for any better start and now ball is in their court to capitalize on it and increase their presence.

There are some sensational rumors about mbappe and Neymar considering mls moves. 🤷

[panda]

1 manc
2 Arsenal
3 Chelsea
4 Liverpool
5 utd
6 Newcastle
7 Brighton 
8 villa 
9 spurs
10 Burnley
11 Fulham
12 Brentford
13 West Ham
14 Forrest
15 Bournemouth
16 palace
17 everton
18 Sheffield utd
19 wolves
20 Luton

[jesmu84]

So long Harry

#coys

[panda]

So long Harry

#coys

Recruitment is going to be almost impossible for spurs. No Europe, minimal supporting cast and a proper hard manager who lacks cache/stature. Season starts early so integrating new players will be a challenge. Also levy completely butchered the Bale investment so I'm not wildly confident if I'm a spurs fan.

[JWags85]

Neymar to Saudi to join Koulibaly and Ruben Naves at Al-Hilal.  This is probably the most shocking of all the signings. Haven't seen a wages figure yet but I'm sure it's absolutely massive.

This will also be amusing cause while other stars like Benzema and Koulibaly are Muslims who have spoken about that appeal, Neymar is a rager party animal headed to a country with no nightclubs.

Also, while I've mentioned I don't think the general money explosion of this years Saudi Pro League transfer bonanza is necessarily sport washing...Neymar's contract stating he gets $500K for any post about Saudi in his social media is absolutely the most shameless of sport washing

[The Sultan]

So is Neymar leaving why Mbappe returned? Also Neymar has been largely a disappointment career-wise. Granted he's been injured...

[Golden Avalanche]

So is Neymar leaving why Mbappe returned? Also Neymar has been largely a disappointment career-wise. Granted he's been injured...

Largely a disappointment? That's a heater.

[The Sultan]

Largely a disappointment? That's a heater.

Largely hasn't fulfilled the expectations people had for him when he came out of Brazil?

[JWags85]

Largely hasn't fulfilled the expectations people had for him when he came out of Brazil?

You're certainly not alone in that mentality, but I think Neymar is one of the most unfairly maligned/assessed players of a generation.  I completely understand the injury aspect, which has been truly unfortunate, but he's had a tremendous career.

One of only 3 players to ever score 100 goals for 3 different clubs, joining Cristiano Ronaldo and Romario (though Romario never did it at the elite levels like the other 2.  2 clubs in Brazil plus PSV).

Averaged better than a goal every other game in La Liga.  Even higher at PSG.

22 Goals in 40 matches in the UCL

77 goals for Brazil.

Couple POY Awards in Europe

Team achievements?  10 league titles, a Champions League and a Runners Up, A Confed Cup for Brazil and a Copa runner up

I think people have a negative perception of him due to diving and his perceived fragility.  But he's had a fantastic career statistically and been a key cog for very good machines.  And he had a stretch in the mid 2010s where, IMO, he was the clear 3rd best player in the world after Messi and Ronaldo.

Did he turn into the next Pele?  No.  But I don't think anything about his career could be deemed disappointing other than unfair expectations.  He's done extremely well given the huge pressure and expectations on his, not to mention constant racial antagonism he endured in Spain.  For my money he's the clear second best Brazilian ever.

[Golden Avalanche]

Largely hasn't fulfilled the expectations people had for him when he came out of Brazil?

Sure, for some.

In a less cynical setting I think Neymar would be appreciated at a higher level. You mentioned injury and it's hampered him at key times but yet, on the whole, he's likely the next guy a level down from Messi/Ronaldo over the last decade.

Lack of team success with Brasil seems held against him but no other member of the program. And he'll finish as its greatest goal getter and likely score in four World Cups (which I think he'd be the only one to do it). Won everything on the club level between Barca/PSG. A career 99.9% could only dream about.



Edit: JWags in just before me with more context. Maligned is a good word to use regarding Neymar. It became fashionable for him to be the punching bag.

[The Sultan]

I mean, winning everything (except Champions League) at PSG isn't really saying a lot...

[panda]

I mean, winning everything (except Champions League) at PSG isn't really saying a lot...

He won a ton at Barca

[JWags85]

I mean, winning everything (except Champions League) at PSG isn't really saying a lot...

He lead them to their only appearance in the Champions League final (post Zlatan and before Mbappe become a monster) and then the next year took them to the semis in the first year without Thiago Silva or Cavani in the squad in nearly a decade.

[Pakuni]

He lead them to their only appearance in the Champions League final (post Zlatan and before Mbappe become a monster) and then the next year took them to the semis in the first year without Thiago Silva or Cavani in the squad in nearly a decade.

Mbappe wasn't a monster in 2019-20?

[JWags85]

Mbappe wasn't a monster in 2019-20?

Not to the extend he has been post-COVID IMO.  I know Mbappe's 18-19 stats were huge, but it was still Neymar's team.  Mbappe was banged up and didn't play a chunk of 19-20 and his impact was less than usual down the stretch in the CL.  Not just scoring, but touches in general.  Neymar had one of his most effective and productive seasons at PSG in 19-20

[panda]

Recruitment is going to be almost impossible for spurs. No Europe, minimal supporting cast and a proper hard manager who lacks cache/stature. Season starts early so integrating new players will be a challenge. Also levy completely butchered the Bale investment so I'm not wildly confident if I'm a spurs fan.

https://x.com/goalnews/status/1692452019435376764?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

Lol

[Pakuni]

https://x.com/goalnews/status/1692452019435376764?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A

Lol

They aren't going to make a play for Ferguson.
Their focus is Gift Orban and/or Eze in this window, and perhaps Toney in January.

[panda]

They aren't going to make a play for Ferguson.
Their focus is Gift Orban and/or Eze in this window, and perhaps Toney in January.

This is showing the spurs premium that will have to be paid for replacements. Clubs that don't need to sell and players that have little interest in playing only domestic soccer. It's a hard sell

[Pakuni]

This is showing the spurs premium that will have to be paid for replacements. Clubs that don't need to sell and players that have little interest in playing only domestic soccer. It's a hard sell

Eh ... Spurs have landed all their top targets so far this window (Maddison, van de Ven, Solomon) without Europe.
The only arguable miss was Raya, but he wanted the move and agreed to terms. Spurs understandably didn't want to pay Brentford's 40 million ask (which, as it turns out, they weren't able to get anything close to for him).

[JWags85]

Neymar is being joined at Al-Hilal by Bono from Sevilla and soon to be Mitrovic from Fulham.

Sportwashing aside, Saudi Pro League has become legitimately interesting from a soccer quality perspective.  Ronaldo going was a highly paid circus.  Benzema and the first few were kind of interesting.  But looking at rosters, the 2 primary Riyadh clubs and the 2 Jeddah clubs, plus Al-Ettifaq (where Gerrard is manager) all have brought in 5-6 legit top 5 Euro league players and at least 2 "stars" each, many in their relative primes.  Its not just an aging star surrounded by middling Saudi players.

Contrast this with the Chinese Super League experiment 5-6 years ago.  Other than Oscar, the two biggest guys were Witsal and Hulk, who both were playing in the well compensated hinterland at Zenit.  Nowhere near the level of overall quality.

Whether this fizzles after a year or two like China did or if they keep building rosters remains to be seen, but well established geopolitical red flags aside, it wouldn't be bad soccer to watch.

[Its DJOver]

Neymar is being joined at Al-Hilal by Bono from Sevilla and soon to be Mitrovic from Fulham.

Sportwashing aside, Saudi Pro League has become legitimately interesting from a soccer quality perspective.  Ronaldo going was a highly paid circus.  Benzema and the first few were kind of interesting.  But looking at rosters, the 2 primary Riyadh clubs and the 2 Jeddah clubs, plus Al-Ettifaq (where Gerrard is manager) all have brought in 5-6 legit top 5 Euro league players and at least 2 "stars" each, many in their relative primes.  Its not just an aging star surrounded by middling Saudi players.

Contrast this with the Chinese Super League experiment 5-6 years ago.  Other than Oscar, the two biggest guys were Witsal and Hulk, who both were playing in the well compensated hinterland at Zenit.  Nowhere near the level of overall quality.

Whether this fizzles after a year or two like China did or if they keep building rosters remains to be seen, but well established geopolitical red flags aside, it wouldn't be bad soccer to watch.

Will probably depend on if they can coarse (i.e. bribe) their way into getting a spot in the Champions League, which they are already trying to do, as well as team up with Greece or another poorer European country for a joint bid for the 2034 WC (I think it would be to bold for them to go after 2030, think the COMNEBOL bid is all but locked up).

[panda]

Eh ... Spurs have landed all their top targets so far this window (Maddison, van de Ven, Solomon) without Europe.
The only arguable miss was Raya, but he wanted the move and agreed to terms. Spurs understandably didn't want to pay Brentford's 40 million ask (which, as it turns out, they weren't able to get anything close to for him).

I'm more speaking to a direct replacement for kane. All of those guys came in before his departure. Richarlsion is not capable of leading the line and whomever Solomon is probably isn't either.

If they want to remotely come close to
Europe, they need a true #9 and they'll have to pay a hefty hefty fee.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I'm more speaking to a direct replacement for kane. All of those guys came in before his departure. Richarlsion is not capable of leading the line and whomever Solomon is probably isn't either.

If they want to remotely come close to
Europe, they need a true #9 and they'll have to pay a hefty hefty fee.

Richarlison in his natural #9 spot, Son and Deki on the wings, improved midfield and attacking fullbacks will work just fine in the Ange system.

I think they'll finish 6th or 7th, but it is a rebuild season.

[Pakuni]

I'm more speaking to a direct replacement for kane. All of those guys came in before his departure. Richarlsion is not capable of leading the line and whomever Solomon is probably isn't either.

If they want to remotely come close to
Europe, they need a true #9 and they'll have to pay a hefty hefty fee.

I'm not sure they want a direct replacement for Kane. I'm not sold on Richarlison, but Postecoglou's system doesn't really rely on a traditional 9 to carry the scoring load. They're definitely in the market for forwards and goal scorers, but judging by the names they've been associated with for the remainder of this window (Orban, Eze, Brennan Johnson) it doesn't seem they're on the hunt for a Kane clone.

[panda]

Richarlison in his natural #9 spot, Son and Deki on the wings, improved midfield and attacking fullbacks will work just fine in the Ange system.

I think they'll finish 6th or 7th, but it is a rebuild season.

Richarlison - lol the same guy that was almost on a suspension for taking his shirt off after scoring even though he was offsides every time ? No goals and almost on a suspension lol