Futbol Talk

[Its DJOver]

Sloppy, sloppy all around. Point on the road in CONCACAF shouldn't be scoffed at, but this feels more like a collection of individuals rather than a team. Shame as this should have been 3 in the bag.

[MUfan12]

That was awful. Credit to El Salvador. They were organized and defended well.

But goodness... All this talent I hear about and they were out of ideas with a half hour to go.

[21Jumpstreet]

Sloppy, sloppy all around. Point on the road in CONCACAF shouldn't be scoffed at, but this feels more like a collection of individuals rather than a team. Shame as this should have been 3 in the bag.

The fan in me says we should have secured three points. I agree, a road point is a point. Gotta win at home. Didn't realize the US is now a top ten ranked team, hope that the players gel and get results that justify this huge jump.

[Golden Avalanche]

That was awful. Credit to El Salvador. They were organized and defended well.

But goodness... All this talent I hear about and they were out of ideas with a half hour to go.

For me, I didn't see it as an issue of being out of ideas. I saw it as the execution of a bad idea.

Berhalter's mantra of "be free and express yourself" seems to allow guys like McKennie, Dest,  et al. to think they are ballroom dancers when in reality they have two left feet. Far too often the US eschewed a pass, move, pass attempted breakdown of ES in favor of the 1v1 video game breakdown.

Robinson had a clear header at five minutes. Pefok had a good chance. McKennie had a clear header at 84 minutes. Cliche but true that clinical finishing is what separates legitimately good squads from those that are perpetually full of potential.

[jesmu84]

For me, I didn't see it as an issue of being out of ideas. I saw it as the execution of a bad idea.

Berhalter's mantra of "be free and express yourself" seems to allow guys like McKennie, Dest,  et al. to think they are ballroom dancers when in reality they have two left feet. Far too often the US eschewed a pass, move, pass attempted breakdown of ES in favor of the 1v1 video game breakdown.

Robinson had a clear header at five minutes. Pefok had a good chance. McKennie had a clear header at 84 minutes. Cliche but true that clinical finishing is what separates legitimately good squads from those that are perpetually full of potential.

Yup.

I have no problem if Berhalter wants to isolate an obvious 1v1 advantage as part of the game plan. It can work in nearly every other sport as well as in soccer. Problem is, not everyone on the usmnt has that talent. Pulisic, Reyna...maybe that's it?

[brewcity77]

Not a great result, but enough to get us qualified if we win at home. What killed us last time wasn't road form (0W/3D/2L) it was losing twice at home (3W/0D/2L). If we come out of this batch with 5 points, we're in fine shape.

Any more than 20 points should be enough to get qualified. 1.5 points per match has never failed to qualify a team. We likely won't punch our ticket until January or February at the earliest. Just keep grinding these out.

[The Sultan]

A draw on the road in Central America with a young team playing its first of 14 qualifiers is just fine.

[jesmu84]

A draw on the road in Central America with a young team playing its first of 14 qualifiers is just fine.

Result is "acceptable." Product on the field was not. Not if you truly believe USA is top 10 in the world.

[brewcity77]

Result is "acceptable." Product on the field was not. Not if you truly believe USA is top 10 in the world.

They are playing on a ramshackle pitch worth a hostile crowd and missing their best player. It was a young side gutting out the result they needed while never really looking overly threatened.

The last time El Salvador was in the final round, they went 2-2-1 at home, including a win over Mexico and draw with the USA. Their only loss was Honduras by a 1-0 score. Only the result matters, and there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd love to see the top European sides try playing there. I'm guessing most would be just as hopeless, in between the broken pitch and bags of piss.

[JWags85]

They are playing on a ramshackle pitch worth a hostile crowd and missing their best player. It was a young side gutting out the result they needed while never really looking overly threatened.

The last time El Salvador was in the final round, they went 2-2-1 at home, including a win over Mexico and draw with the USA. Their only loss was Honduras by a 1-0 score. Only the result matters, and there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd love to see the top European sides try playing there. I'm guessing most would be just as hopeless, in between the broken pitch and bags of piss.

People always assume every top Euro squad bludgeons the inferior teams they play.  Spain is as likely to win 1-0 or sleepwalk to 0-0 against lesser squads as they are win going away.  Plenty of top Euro teams struggle in snakepits on the road against some of the smaller Balkan nations or Eastern European.  And even then those are usually legit stadiums and pitches.  The US graduates from playing on cow pastures and converted cricket pitches against some of the island nations to the messes that are playing anywhere between Azteca and Panama City (and even that field is ehh).  Its a miracle they make it out with ankles intact, either from the pitch or the chippy tackles

[jesmu84]

They are playing on a ramshackle pitch worth a hostile crowd and missing their best player. It was a young side gutting out the result they needed while never really looking overly threatened.

The last time El Salvador was in the final round, they went 2-2-1 at home, including a win over Mexico and draw with the USA. Their only loss was Honduras by a 1-0 score. Only the result matters, and there was nothing wrong with it.

I'd love to see the top European sides try playing there. I'm guessing most would be just as hopeless, in between the broken pitch and bags of piss.

If you (or anyone) truly believes there is a GIANT talent gap between a team like El Salvador and the current USMNT squad, then they should be able to put 1 in the back of the net. The current FIFA rankings seem to indicate there is a GIANT talent gap between the 2 teams.

Now, if we don't actually believe in the hype/rankings, then sure all the above excuses would seem to be acceptable.

If we aren't as talented as presented, we need to come to grips with that as a country and understand what our limitations are going forward.

[jesmu84]

People always assume every top Euro squad bludgeons the inferior teams they play.  Spain is as likely to win 1-0 or sleepwalk to 0-0 against lesser squads as they are win going away.  Plenty of top Euro teams struggle in snakepits on the road against some of the smaller Balkan nations or Eastern European.  And even then those are usually legit stadiums and pitches.  The US graduates from playing on cow pastures and converted cricket pitches against some of the island nations to the messes that are playing anywhere between Azteca and Panama City (and even that field is ehh).  Its a miracle they make it out with ankles intact, either from the pitch or the chippy tackles

Correct.

But there is an interesting dichotomy between what top Euro nation fans accept as results vs USA fans when we supposedly have a top 10 team globally.

[JWags85]

Correct.

But there is an interesting dichotomy between what top Euro nation fans accept as results vs USA fans when we supposedly have a top 10 team globally.

Ehh, it's an early qualifying result. Regardless of the continent.  This isn't T&T over again.  The US just came off one of the best stretches of results in recent memory. Without their de facto leader and talisman against a scrappy team who is gonna come out defensive almost always, it is what it is.  It's not preferred but it's certainly not worthy of fretting or calling them overrated

[jesmu84]

Ehh, it's an early qualifying result. Regardless of the continent.  This isn't T&T over again.  The US just came off one of the best stretches of results in recent memory. Without their de facto leader and talisman against a scrappy team who is gonna come out defensive almost always, it is what it is.  It's not preferred but it's certainly not worthy of fretting or calling them overrated

I thought El Salvador played well. And I wouldn't say they were bunkered either.

[brewcity77]

The 2010 USA Qualifying was similarly ranked and even more experience. They tied in El Salvador. Mexico lost there. That's just CONCACAF.

And I really don't care at all about FIFA rankings. They're useless when it comes to confederation qualifying. I'd love to get to the top-7 for a seed in the draw, but otherwise, does anyone actually care?

All that matters is that we actually qualify this time.

[jesmu84]

The 2010 USA Qualifying was similarly ranked and even more experience. They tied in El Salvador. Mexico lost there. That's just CONCACAF.

And I really don't care at all about FIFA rankings. They're useless when it comes to confederation qualifying. I'd love to get to the top-7 for a seed in the draw, but otherwise, does anyone actually care?

All that matters is that we actually qualify this time.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/match/_/gameId/262889

More experienced? Absolutely.

But do you really want to say the roster from that game is the same talent level as last night's?

I think, at some point, if we really buy-in to the supposed talent level of this roster, we have to expect more from them.

I personally hold zero weight in fifa rankings. I just want them to qualify, like you.

But, again, if we're (collectively) tout how talented this team is as individuals, then we need to hold them to a higher expectation than rosters in the past.

[The Sultan]

Result is "acceptable." Product on the field was not. Not if you truly believe USA is top 10 in the world.

I don't. 

[jesmu84]

I don't.

Thanks. Agreed.

[Its DJOver]

In defense of the team, I'll build off something that Gregg brought up.  Once it was known that Steffen was out, Gregg said that he went with Turner over Horvath because MLS was already in mid-season form while the European players were just starting to get their feet wet.  9 out of the remaining 10 players were European based rather than MLS.  As much as we all want to see more and more European based players, their season is only about 3 weeks old. If the same 22 players were to meet up in November, even with a poor field (an overused excuse IMO), and CONCACAF reffing I think we would see a different result.  Sunday will be a big game, and a win down in Honduras certainly isn't outside the realm of possibility either.  Getting 9 points this window was never going to happen, 7 would be great, 5 would be acceptable.

[jesmu84]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/positives-negatives-from-the-usmnt-draw-at-el-salvador-and-what-s-to-come-vs-can

Fair and balanced

[brewcity77]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/match/_/gameId/262889

More experienced? Absolutely.

But do you really want to say the roster from that game is the same talent level as last night's?

If 2010 played last night, the two best players on the team would be prime Dempsey and Donovan, and it wouldn't be particularly close.

[JWags85]

If 2010 played last night, the two best players on the team would be prime Dempsey and Donovan, and it wouldn't be particularly close.

Dempsey sure, but Donovan was on his decline, for both club, and certainly country.  His peak/prime was 06-08ish.  You could make the argument but I highly disagree it's particularly close when you compare him with McKinnie and Adams.  McKinnie just put in 7 goals in a Serie A/CL campaign as a regular starter for a top tier club, and Adams has been a stalwart for a very good RB Leipzig team.  They don't have as much international experience but have already experienced far more club level competition and intensity than Donovan ever did.  Little vacation runs with Everton aside.

[jesmu84]

Dempsey sure, but Donovan was on his decline, for both club, and certainly country.  His peak/prime was 06-08ish.  You could make the argument but I highly disagree it's particularly close when you compare him with McKinnie and Adams.  McKinnie just put in 7 goals in a Serie A/CL campaign as a regular starter for a top tier club, and Adams has been a stalwart for a very good RB Leipzig team.  They don't have as much international experience but have already experienced far more club level competition and intensity than Donovan ever did.  Little vacation runs with Everton aside.

McKennie*

I know he didn't play last night, but pulisic also gotta be up there.

[JWags85]

McKennie*

I know he didn't play last night, but pulisic also gotta be up there.

Double autocorrect and I kept on pushing. Shameful 

I think he was meaning active roster.  Obviously Pulisic would be right there

[brewcity77]

McKennie*

I know he didn't play last night, but pulisic also gotta be up there.

Pulisic wasn't on the pitch, though. And Donovan scored as many in 09-10 (while assisting on nearly twice as many) as McKennie & Adams have in their international careers. He was also being deployed less as a forward due to Clint and Jozy and more as a creator.

I think both have the potential to eclipse him, but when it comes to qualifying and playing on those pitches, they aren't there yet. Adams' post-match comments only further confirmed that he's still developing what it takes to succeed in CONCACAF.

They'll likely get there, but I don't think there's some massive gulf between the #13 ranked 2010 team and today's #10 ranked team, especially when you factor in the experience gap. This team has had some nice results, but these matches are tough no matter what, history shows that.