Futbol Talk

[Tortuga94]

I've always enjoyed watching the EPL, I don't really have a team though, but I really enjoy watching Wolverhampton this season.
They play a very nice style of football. I like Nuno's style of play. It's a shame they won't be able to keep Traore and Jimenez, as I'm sure at least one of them gets bought by a bigger club and maybe they both do. Hope they can find a way to keep them both and the qualify for Champions League play.

[BM1090]

They've won three of their five matches since the restart.

If that is them "asleep" I'd hate to see what they do when awake and ready.

And a great away win today.

[Golden Avalanche]

And a great away win today.

Indeed.

[HouWarrior]

My Real Madrid plays Atletico at 7am Sunday...any idea who will broadcast it here in USA?

[JWags85]

My Real Madrid plays Atletico at 7am Sunday...any idea who will broadcast it here in USA?

Cool of you to support a plucky upstart!

Unfortunately, LaLiga has the worst TV package in the US of the 4 major Euro leagues. It will be on BEin Sports, which is not in most cable packages

[The Sultan]

My Real Madrid plays Atletico at 7am Sunday...any idea who will broadcast it here in USA?

They aren't playing Atletico.  They are playing Athletic Bilbao.

[HouWarrior]

Cool of you to support a plucky upstart!

Unfortunately, LaLiga has the worst TV package in the US of the 4 major Euro leagues. It will be on BEin Sports, which is not in most cable packages

Thanks
I have been a fan since Franco's folks ordered me to be one while living there in the 70s. lol

[BM1090]

I have always loved soccer but have put it on the backburner since there are US sports in better TV time slots.  It's been oddly nice dedicating my viewing time solely to soccer. Having a lot of fun watching Premier League/having it in the background while working, even with the title already decided.

Hoping Fulham earns a promotion spot through the playoff but I have my doubts with Scott Parker in charge.

[JWags85]

I have always loved soccer but have put it on the backburner since there are US sports in better TV time slots.  It's been oddly nice dedicating my viewing time solely to soccer. Having a lot of fun watching Premier League/having it in the background while working, even with the title already decided.

Hoping Fulham earns a promotion spot through the playoff but I have my doubts with Scott Parker in charge.

I'm a massive soccer fan, but even beyond that, one of my fav things to do on Saturday mornings if I wasn't interested in the early matches is wake up and turn the broadcast on cause the ebb and flow of crowd noise as play goes up and down the pitch was amazing background noise for the "nap" of going back to sleep for another hour or so.

And I can't believe Parker is a manager now, feel so old. He also has one of the all time preppy douche-style punchable faces in English football

In other news, Pulisic scores again for Chelsea today. He's been incandescent since the restart
https://twitter.com/foxsoccer/status/1280555076654977024?s=21

[Its DJOver]

What a Champions League Draw.  There are no bad teams in the competition, especially at this point, but one side is way more stacked than the other.  City, Real, Juve, Barca, and Bayern all on the same side, brutal.  Compared to a Werner-less Leipzig, a PSG side that won't have played since March, Cinderella story Atalanta, and an admittedly solid Athletico squad.  Adrian has to be kicking himself all over again, because it would have been a pretty formal walk to the final had he not had those blunders.

[shoothoops]

Chelsea did a video of Pulisic:

"Every single touch"

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1281532716023009281?s=19

[JWags85]

Chelsea did a video of Pulisic:

"Every single touch"

https://twitter.com/ChelseaFC/status/1281532716023009281?s=19

My best friend is a big soccer guy but he's always been amused/borderline annoyed by the Pulisic treatment that ESPN/NBCSN/etc gives. Like Chelsea would win 3-0, Pulisic would play 15 min with little action and the headline would be "Pulisic and Chelsea triumph 3-0. Or the top players under 22 list that ESPN did that didn't have Pulisic top 5-10, I think he was in the teens, but he was on the headline graphic with Sancho and Mbappe. This sort of feels a bit pandering to the US market like that.

THAT BEING SAID, I'd argue he may very well have been Chelsea's best player since the restart and he deserves all the attention and praise he's getting. I never had an issue with the slanted coverage cause he's literally the best American prospect in years, perhaps ever, and he's getting regular and meaningful action for one of the biggest clubs in the world.  It's super fun.

I remember being super excited at the thought of Clint Dempsey joining LFC awhile ago. He would have never been more than a bit player there, much like he was at Spurs, but it was still a moment. This far surpasses that

[shoothoops]

My best friend is a big soccer guy but he's always been amused/borderline annoyed by the Pulisic treatment that ESPN/NBCSN/etc gives. Like Chelsea would win 3-0, Pulisic would play 15 min with little action and the headline would be "Pulisic and Chelsea triumph 3-0. Or the top players under 22 list that ESPN did that didn't have Pulisic top 5-10, I think he was in the teens, but he was on the headline graphic with Sancho and Mbappe. This sort of feels a bit pandering to the US market like that.

THAT BEING SAID, I'd argue he may very well have been Chelsea's best player since the restart and he deserves all the attention and praise he's getting. I never had an issue with the slanted coverage cause he's literally the best American prospect in years, perhaps ever, and he's getting regular and meaningful action for one of the biggest clubs in the world.  It's super fun.

I remember being super excited at the thought of Clint Dempsey joining LFC awhile ago. He would have never been more than a bit player there, much like he was at Spurs, but it was still a moment. This far surpasses that

Certainly there is a marketing/sales aspect to his coverage. But his level of play post re-start has been legit both statistically and eye test. And there is potential for a few to several American players to play more consistently, at higher levels in Europe's top leagues, than ever before. It's fun, it's a positive.

Take MLS for example, one can be a critic of the level, only accepting the game's leagues at the highest levels etc...or one can accept its longevity compared to other leagues and be a part of the building process.
The ages of some elite Americans are much younger today, teens, early 30's vs later 20's to early 30's and the level is high. Fitness, skill sets etc...one can appreciate Dempsey or McBride etc...or these guys now all for different reasons, in different ways at different times.

I'm personally not a fan of the snobby nature of some. I'm a big soccer person, (among some other sports) since I was a small child. It was very big in my world.

[JWags85]

Certainly there is a marketing/sales aspect to his coverage. But his level of play post re-start has been legit both statistically and eye test. And there is potential for a few to several American players to play more consistently, at higher levels in Europe's top leagues, than ever before. It's fun, it's a positive.

Take MLS for example, one can be a critic of the level, only accepting the game's leagues at the highest levels etc...or one can accept its longevity compared to other leagues and be a part of the building process.
The ages of some elite Americans are much younger today, teens, early 30's vs later 20's to early 30's and the level is high. Fitness, skill sets etc...one can appreciate Dempsey or McBride etc...or these guys now all for different reasons, in different ways at different times.

I'm personally not a fan of the snobby nature of some. I'm a big soccer person, (among some other sports) since I was a small child. It was very big in my world.

I don't disagree. I think it was likely more a reaction to relentless hype which hasn't lead to positives for young Americans with pressure as of late.  But CP is clearly bucking that trend.

I think the snobbery towards the MLS is founded in some legit gripes. It tries too hard to pretend to be a Euro league (Real Salt Lake and Inter Miami are both cringey. Shocked we don't have Dynamo Louisville yet) but refuse any of the tenants due to the league ownership demands.  Pro/Rel, the league determining who gets foreign stars, etc.. that's where I think legitimate soccer fans who developed their fanship in European or South American leagues get annoyed.

But I agree the caliber of soccer has only continued to improve as the league has grown. It's a legit feeder league that attracts from a lot of legit league and more and more "Star" players near their prime are coming as opposed to large paycheck seeking guys in their late 30s

[shoothoops]

I don't disagree. I think it was likely more a reaction to relentless hype which hasn't lead to positives for young Americans with pressure as of late.  But CP is clearly bucking that trend.

I think the snobbery towards the MLS is founded in some legit gripes. It tries too hard to pretend to be a Euro league (Real Salt Lake and Inter Miami are both cringey. Shocked we don't have Dynamo Louisville yet) but refuse any of the tenants due to the league ownership demands.  Pro/Rel, the league determining who gets foreign stars, etc.. that's where I think legitimate soccer fans who developed their fanship in European or South American leagues get annoyed.

But I agree the caliber of soccer has only continued to improve as the league has grown. It's a legit feeder league that attracts from a lot of legit league and more and more "Star" players near their prime are coming as opposed to large paycheck seeking guys in their late 30s

I'm certainly not saying there has been play quality frustration with MLS over the years, or the U.S. Men's National team, those are obvious. But the mentality is either dismissive of MLS as a league because it isn't one of the top leagues in the world, or it's the U.S. league, let's accept what it is and where it's at and keep working to improve it to make it a top league. It's a long slow process.

I'm not a fan of copying everything soccer does elsewhere around the world. I greatly enjoy and appreciate various countries, leagues and the way they do things. But in the U.S. it's ok to name a team after a city and have a nickname. You don't need FC or United or whatever. And don't get me started on uniforms. I can understand sponsor dollars etc...and even if it means jersey placement, but I prefer to see the name of the team across the front of a uniform in the U.S.  (or anywhere really). If you are good, the world will respect you. It won't be because you have a European name or uniform.

Play quality will always be the top priority but the other things are all a part of growing a league or game too.

[The Sultan]

Copying team names is much older than MLS.

But anyway, I generally agree.  It's never going to be one of the world's elite leagues, but that's fine.  And it can serve as the home base for much of the national team, with its top players playing overseas. 

[JWags85]

Copying team names is much older than MLS.

But anyway, I generally agree.  It's never going to be one of the world's elite leagues, but that's fine.  And it can serve as the home base for much of the national team, with its top players playing overseas.

Sure, but I think it just seems dopey when you have half the league like the Revolution or the Fire or the Sounders, with standard US naming conventions, then the rest with some attempt at being more like international.

I agree with you to a point on the second, I don't want the MLS being the comfy home base for most of the squad, unless it can become a legit peer of LigaMX.  And right now MLS is on par with the second division in Mexico.

Looking through the top 15 national teams, the ones that don't have top leagues, don't have most of their squad playing domestically. Croatia, Poland, Switzerland, even Argentina who has a league far superior to MLS doesn't play many guys in the domestic league. Outside of Ajax, PSV, and Feyenoord, I'd argue the Eredivise isn't a bad combo for MLS, but the Dutch team doesn't have many guys there.

MLS has a lot more money than most second tier leagues, so they can afford to pay USMNT guys to stay home, but I'm still pretty ardent in my feelings that it's not a great place for young talent if the USMNT will ever take the next step. It's better than sitting on the bench somewhere, but you can't tell me Josh Sargent isn't developing more playing for a bad Werder Bremen team in the Bundesliga than he would be scoring every other game in Seattle or LA against porous defense.

Stocking the team with a bunch of late 20s MLS lifers is Bruce Arena comfort nonsense. A Walker Zimmerman or Paul Arriola here or there is fine, but if the team is a good chunk of Zardes, Aaron Long, and Will Trapp types in the next few WC. We will be nothing more than flashes in the pan wasting the primes of Pulisic, McKinnie, Reyna, and others.

I agree MLS has come a long way and I do think it could potentially become LigaMX worthy, if they get out of their own way. Until then, it's not preparing national team players for their legit World Cup/Copa competition like elsewhere.  I LOVE the buzz about a LigaMX/MLS merger. That would throw all my platform out the window and do wonders for US soccer, IMO

[The Sultan]

I don't disagree with you, but I also think this is the reality we are dealing with.  MLS is going to be where a lot of these guys play because it is home, and because they can pay.  A lot of the domestic leagues you mention don't have their national team playing there because they don't pay that well.  I mean, outside of the big three, how much money can someone make playing in the Netherlands?  Probably not as much as MLS.

This is why I would like to see where Jesse Marsch goes the next couple of years, because I think his MLS background with European success is how you are going to be able to blend the two together at the USMNT..

[shoothoops]

i would never say MLS couldn't be a top league long term or that it will never be a top league. I'm a bit more positive than that long term. It isn't now.

One thing to keep in mind about MLS finances is that it has become a Billionaire owner league. You need big bucks for increased expansion fees, expenses etc....the Billionaire Ingram family in Nashville, the Billionaire Taylor family in St. Louis and so on.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

I have always loved soccer but have put it on the backburner since there are US sports in better TV time slots.  It's been oddly nice dedicating my viewing time solely to soccer. Having a lot of fun watching Premier League/having it in the background while working, even with the title already decided.

Hoping Fulham earns a promotion spot through the playoff but I have my doubts with Scott Parker in charge.

My biggest problem with football is how quickly they can managers. Slav was so good for them for a number of years, has one bad season, and gets shown the door.

[JWags85]

I don't disagree with you, but I also think this is the reality we are dealing with.  MLS is going to be where a lot of these guys play because it is home, and because they can pay.  A lot of the domestic leagues you mention don't have their national team playing there because they don't pay that well.  I mean, outside of the big three, how much money can someone make playing in the Netherlands?  Probably not as much as MLS.

This is why I would like to see where Jesse Marsch goes the next couple of years, because I think his MLS background with European success is how you are going to be able to blend the two together at the USMNT..

Interestingly enough, its pretty on par, Eredivise average salary is about 300K Euros.  I think the non-DP average in the MLS is a bit over $300K.  Somewhere like the Argentine SuperLiga is in the same realm.

I honestly think there are two factors at play. 

1) those other countries are plenty self aware about the status of their league and players know full well that being "good" or excelling means going abroad as soon as possible.  There is a level of American exceptionalism that leads to some "why do you have to go to Europe when you can play here and be on ESPN".  If you don't have that personal dream or parents/mentors aiding it, like we've see with a lot of talented youth players making the move, you might not have the right advice.

2) Pure proximity for the Euro leagues.  You're a 1-2 hour flight or a train ride to the top European leagues from most countries in Europe.  Its much more of a daunting idea to go to Europe from the US.  And to be honest, when the US Soccer governance wasn't always the most supportive of that, it made it all a bit more difficult.

But totally agree about Jesse Marsch. Hes the coaching equivalent of Pulisic.  Salzburg was wildly dominant this year, even after losing Haaland and Minamino.  There is a good chance he gets a look in the Bundesliga or Ligue 1 after another successful season, as thats the progression successful RBS managers have had.  That would be super exciting.

One thing to keep in mind about MLS finances is that it has become a Billionaire owner league. You need big bucks for increased expansion fees, expenses etc....the Billionaire Ingram family in Nashville, the Billionaire Taylor family in St. Louis and so on.

That doesn't make it much different than other top leagues then.  However, I do think it does make it more difficult to progress as a league.  Monetary interest over league quality issues.  The US doesn't really know how to be a "developing" league in any sport.  But we shall see.

[brewcity77]

It's never going to be one of the world's elite leagues, but that's fine.  And it can serve as the home base for much of the national team, with its top players playing overseas.

I actually think MLS has done more to help the rest of CONCACAF than it has the USMNT. It's provided a higher level of competition than players from Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, and others were able to get access to. The paychecks have also drawn quality Americans back home prematurely, lowering the level of competition they face (Bradley, Altidore, etc).

I love the idea of a stronger domestic league, but I think to date it's done more to help our competition and hurt our own domestic national team than anyone affiliated with MLS would like to admit.

[BM1090]

My biggest problem with football is how quickly they can managers. Slav was so good for them for a number of years, has one bad season, and gets shown the door.

I'd give anything to have Slav back. His  flaw was he tried to play the same attractive attacking style after promotion and did not have the back line quality to play it in the PL. He should have adjusted but I have no doubt he would have had Fulham right back up via auto-promotion and an improved squad for a second PL stint.

[Big Papi]

The MLS has made CONCACAF better and more competitive.

In order for the MLS to continue becoming a better league they need to do the following:
1. Change their schedule to conform with the rest of the world.  Single biggest reason holding this league back.  Same playing window, same transfer window, same national game window.
2. Continue to find and buy good young talent.  If the schedule is changed, now you open the ability to get good young talent loaned to our league.  Raises the talent level overall.  Develop players and sell them for a profit until the competitive level reaches a point where you no longer need to sell them. 
3. Figure out the best way to bring in Liga MX
4. Pour money into Academies to raise the talent and development level of young players in this country
5. Eliminate the pay for play concept or at least minimize its influence by sanctioning clubs and providing better coaching at the lower levels

Until changes are made and the talent level rises in the MLS, all of the U.S.'s most talented younger players should and do go oversees.

[shoothoops]

I actually think MLS has done more to help the rest of CONCACAF than it has the USMNT. It's provided a higher level of competition than players from Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama, and others were able to get access to. The paychecks have also drawn quality Americans back home prematurely, lowering the level of competition they face (Bradley, Altidore, etc).

I love the idea of a stronger domestic league, but I think to date it's done more to help our competition and hurt our own domestic national team than anyone affiliated with MLS would like to admit.

I think it's great that an improving MLS can help the region. That helps everyone. I've spent time in some of the countries you mentioned. I've seen first hand (8 of 9 provinces) for example,.the increased popularity of soccer in baseball popular Panama over the years. Improved play from all helps MLS, helps the U.S. team etc...

For me, MLS is an International Club Soccer League first foremost as opposed to a training ground for the U.S. National Team. It certainly can be and has been both. And that's good too. But it's not a means to end with the National Team, it's an entity to be enjoyed in an of itself.