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Author Topic: Futbol Talk  (Read 390229 times)

Golden Avalanche

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2011, 09:32:57 AM »
Boy, does that ever feel familiar. It was just eight years ago that a USA team on the heels of a surprising World Cup run tuned out their manager, and despite coming into the next (2006) Cup with great promise and hype, fell flat on their faces. It's starting to feel like despite our talent level being higher than ever, we're going to crap the bed again in 2014.

This is why NT managers aren't worth keeping around for a second cycle. It didn't have to be a landmark hire, but I'd have rather seen even a Dominic Kinnear or Steve Nicol take over the NT than bringing Bradley back. The biggest problem an international manager has is that time passes them by quickly. You only get 12-16 matches a year, so by the end of a cycle, it's as though you've played one season. But the players age much faster than that. Bradley will stick by guys like Donovan, Dempsey, Onyewu, Bocanegra, and Howard despite them aging. I'm not saying there are better options yet, but Bradley probably won't recognize the better options until it's too late. That's a mistake a new set of eyes at the top wouldn't make, even if they weren't as good tactically as Bradley. And while he may not always be a great tactician, that 2-0 win over Spain in 2009 was probably the greatest tactical maneuvering ever by a USMNT manager.

Sunil Gulati has to go. And Bradley should go with him.

There is no reason to pattern everything after the more "traditional" powers in the world as they can still get it wrong. But one area we should be following is realizing that a manager should only get one World Cup cycle. The history is overwhelming in this regard and its stunning the US Federation seems to repeatedly ignore it.

That last bolded part is what has set me off the last two years. With Bradley, you always know Bornstein will get an uncalled for selection whereas Edgar Castillo got one half in a friendly and was never called again. Klejstan is on his third or fourth chance whereas Torres was hung out to dry against Slovenia last summer and has been dropped. Pick any B level MLS forward and they'll get multiple chances whereas he won't even select a kid with potential in Bunbury to blood him out during the Gold Cup.

The Spain win, for me, is right up there with the "Miracle on Ice" in terms of shocking value. But let's not forget Bradley's team followed that up by blowing a 2-0 halftime lead against Brasil with the opportunity to win a major Tournament for once in our history. Did Bradley rest on his laurels after Spain 2009? The evidence seems to show it as the US has steadily fallen backwards since that wonderful night.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #51 on: June 19, 2011, 03:45:18 PM »
Has anyone seen the roving 3-5-2 played by Jamaica, the next USA opponent?

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6667561/us-vs-jamaica-preview-gold-cup-soccer

..."Close scrutiny reveals that only the three center backs and a holding midfielder in front of them are chained to their spots for Jamaica. The rest of the team -- two marauding wings backs, two more central midfielders and two forwards -- is free to drift and swap positions as it pleases. It looks and feels like a Caribbean-flavored version of the Dutch house-style of the 1970s...."

I was lucky to be in Amsterdam to watch the Dutch in the 1978 World cup---I thought the Dutch house defense was the best pattern I'd ever seen...to this day. If the Jamaicans play the same, even half as well....the USA could be in real trouble...it really denies good looks, open runs, and any crosses superbly.

Host Argentina's incredible ball handling and better talent (Mario Kempes, Leopoldo Luque)won the '78 final, but the Dutch defense is what got them to 2 consecutive WC finals in the 70s, losing to Host W Germ., in that one-1974- too.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

MUDPT

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2011, 09:59:46 AM »
The 3 defensive players didn't work yesterday because Bradley only played one up top, keeping 5 midfielders and dominating the midfield.  See Zonal Marking. 

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/06/19/united-states-2-0-jamaica-gold-cup/

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2011, 12:03:09 PM »
The 3 defensive players didn't work yesterday because Bradley only played one up top, keeping 5 midfielders and dominating the midfield.  See Zonal Marking. 

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2011/06/19/united-states-2-0-jamaica-gold-cup/
Yup...and ESPN was way off to compare this Jamaican side to the Dutch house D of the 70s, as the Dutch were totally disciplined to area coverages, and shifting...a few Jamaicans simply lacked field and position awareness.
USA looked nice.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Golden Avalanche

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2011, 10:14:20 PM »
Yup...and ESPN was way off to compare this Jamaican side to the Dutch house D of the 70s, as the Dutch were totally disciplined to area coverages, and shifting...a few Jamaicans simply lacked field and position awareness.
USA looked nice.

Jamaica actually played the exact opposite of their three group matches. Not sure if that was planned. Not sure if that was down to missing a few early chances and reverting to a shell. Or not sure if they just didn't have the bottle to stay with the attack but in the end the US really lucked out that Jamaica wasn't anything near what they were earlier in the Tournament.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #55 on: June 22, 2011, 07:59:25 PM »
USA looks like they've redeemed the Panama loss...we win  1nil, . Donovan shouldve been in entire game. Bradley needs to coach his first halves as well as second halves.

BTW, I've been to Reliant Stadium for some intl friendlies before. It was built with both soccer and NFL football in mind....and favorably compares to any World cup venue worldwide...a great soccer stadium.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

reinko

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #56 on: June 22, 2011, 08:06:52 PM »
Yeah, I agree, Adu shouldn't be on the team, and the choice of Robbie Rogers is a leap. I would like to see Timmy Chandler on the roster but I think he had issues with his German club wanting him to have some time off this summer.


Any crow you wanna eat groove??   ;)

Nice win for the Yanks tonight, onto the Rose Bowl

groove

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #57 on: June 22, 2011, 09:24:57 PM »
Yeah, gladly. Tonight he looked like a different player than he has the last few years. Maybe he has actually started to work hard and not live off of his hype. Maybe he got a wakeup call getting bounced around from club to club. Let's hope it wasn't just a 20 minute flash and he can built on it. We can use all the offense we can get.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2011, 09:42:32 PM »
Any crow you wanna eat groove??   ;)

Nice win for the Yanks tonight, onto the Rose Bowl
Reinko...might we retitle this as the "soccer thread", and leave it up there like the beer and NL central threads....we have a good core of soccer fans, who'll post regularly...many thanks for starting this one...
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

reinko

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #59 on: June 22, 2011, 09:47:50 PM »
Reinko...might we retitle this as the "soccer thread", and leave it up there like the beer and NL central threads....we have a good core of soccer fans, who'll post regularly...many thanks for starting this one...

Done and done Esq.  You go to the game tonight?

jesmu84

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #60 on: June 22, 2011, 10:13:23 PM »
Yeah, gladly. Tonight he looked like a different player than he has the last few years. Maybe he has actually started to work hard and not live off of his hype. Maybe he got a wakeup call getting bounced around from club to club. Let's hope it wasn't just a 20 minute flash and he can built on it. We can use all the offense we can get.
eh... he had a few good moments. his ball to donovan was brilliant. but i saw much of the same adu dancing around the ball, getting himself in bad field location and losing possession when he had options.

groove

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #61 on: June 22, 2011, 10:19:44 PM »
eh... he had a few good moments. his ball to donovan was brilliant. but i saw much of the same adu dancing around the ball, getting himself in bad field location and losing possession when he had options.

yeah, some of that too. The sample size is way too small to make a judgement. I'm concerned about how poorly the US played for most of the match. Way too slow at moving the ball around and changing direction.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #62 on: June 22, 2011, 11:57:28 PM »
Done and done Esq.  You go to the game tonight?
Futbol is a great titling--thanks
I got a call from my bro, with the NBC affiliate he scored tickets late today--too late for me to make it...but he and his daughter went...they said it was a really good crowd
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

MUfan12

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2011, 12:43:17 AM »
USA vs. Mexico on Saturday... giddy up.

pux90mex

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2011, 02:03:37 AM »
USA vs. Mexico on Saturday... giddy up.

I love and loathe this matchup. Being from Mexico and having lived there for 7 years I grew up with El Tri, but spending the last 14 years in the U.S. I have come to love Landon and company as well. My allegiances are with Mexico in this Clasico but win or lose, it's never a good feeling afterwards because a part of me lost.

Anyways, this game should be very interesting. I'm curious to see how Lichaj holds up in particular with Barrera seemingly rounding into form. Lichaj has been great so far but this is his biggest challenge to date. If he does well Saturday I think the USMNT has finally found a viable candidate at LB. As for Mexico's defense, it can only be described as porous. Agudelo's speed will kill El Tri's backline.

I expect the U.S. to play conservatively and counterattack a la Honduras/Guatemala because that's when Mexico is most vulnerable. I see this being a close game with a final scoreline of 1-0, winning team TBD.

jesmu84

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2011, 07:06:17 AM »
USA vs. Mexico on Saturday... giddy up.

I'm excited for this. The USA has played much better since Panama. Mexico, however, is a huge step up. Best opponent since Spain.  I've gotta think Mexico has the advantage with talent on the field. It'll be interesting to see Chicharito (sp?) against Goodson/Boca.  I'm very concerned with the US outside backs in the this game. Lichaj/'Dolo have proved very effective in pushing up the field and supporting the attack, allowing Dempsey/Donovan/Bedoya to tuck inside. But, in doing so, have shown they get caught out of position on a counterattack; and all that recovering could lead to fatigue late.  My guess is the US stays with the 4-5-1 which has shown productive when the team maintains form and is able to attack with nearly every player, but take it more as a counterattack, rather than a possession.

Slightly related.... how does everyone feel about Mexico being able to bring in 5 replacement players for those suspended for doping/PEDs (can't remember the exact reason) use. I think it sets a dangerous precedent going forward. Teams will be wanting replacements for injuries, and I think that when you set a tournament roster, that's the only players you should have access to.

brewcity77

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2011, 08:01:39 AM »
First, I agree on the replacement players. If we could prove that Jozy Altidore's injury was because of tainted chicken, could we bring up Teal Bunbury to replace him? It's a load of crap.

But as far as Saturday...I really hate to say it, but I'm expecting us to lose. I will be hoping and cheering for a win, and we definitely have the ability and players to win the game, but Mexico is the better team right now. I have been encouraged by Lichaj of late, if he can keep up this level of play, he stands to be our best ever left back. I know that isn't really saying much when the only competition is David Regis and Jeff Agoos (who admittedly was pretty good) but it's been ages since that has been a near-empty position.

I'll be curious to see if Bradley sticks with the same lineup. I love Bedoya starting, but Kljestan has to go. He's a waste out there. What of value did he bring to the game in the first half yesterday? I scarcely remember him touching the ball. If he wants Donovan as a second half sub, fine. Move Bradley up front as an attacking mid/secondary striker (the role he played in Holland) and bring Edu into the central midfield. Hell, I'd rather see Adu starting over Kljestan after watching his decent performance yesterday.

To beat Mexico, I think we'll have to pretty much play park the bus and hit them on the counterattack. I think that a front line of Agudelo, Dempsey, and Bedoya with Donovan or Adu in the hole could really be effective. The defense needs to be physical, I hope to see Bradley and Jones chipping Chicharito every time he runs by. If it's a 1-0 game or goes to penalties we can win. If we need 2-3 goals, I'm not sure this team will be able to get the job done.

groove

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2011, 08:31:39 AM »
yeah, I agree with you on Kljestan, he was a waste in the first half. Played better the previous game.. Bradley has played well against Mexico in the past and usually is more agressive against them. It was interesting that he played back more last night and Jones moved up more often.

I would love to see us beat the hell out of Chicharito ever time he touches the ball. I love seeing the mexicans get frustrated and lose their composure. And it really pisses them off when we beat them with the counter attack strategy, because they always feel like they are the better team and all our wins are luck. Great rivalry, but I fear Mexico is just too strong for us at this time.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2011, 09:25:42 AM »
USA looks like they've redeemed the Panama loss...we win  1nil, . Donovan shouldve been in entire game. Bradley needs to coach his first halves as well as second halves.

BTW, I've been to Reliant Stadium for some intl friendlies before. It was built with both soccer and NFL football in mind....and favorably compares to any World cup venue worldwide...a great soccer stadium.

Happy you wrote that. I've noticed in the past matches I've seen on TV from there that it sounds like a good atmosphere but you never know the reality. And, of course, atmosphere comes from great sight lines that engage the crowd into the action.

As for America, I maintain that much like last summer they win in spite of Bob Bradley. He ignores a well in form Bedoya on the original roster for the likes of Robbie Rogers and yet Bedoya (as a replacement for Feilhaber) ends up becoming an integral part of the team, whether as impact sub or starter, whereas Rogers has only sat in a luxury box for two weeks. Smart selection, Bobby.

Regarding Saturday, Mexico will be dangerous. Did you see how they plodded along for 90 minutes and then went for blood in extra time? Elite teams do that and Mexico has been far from elite the last five or six years so it may be "uh oh" time. Hernandez was born offside so much will depend on the eyes of the linesmen and if he's allowed the spaces he will eat up Goodson like a kebab from the high street in Manchester.

groove

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2011, 12:23:30 PM »
So what is the truth about in stadium interaction between Mexican and USA fans over the years? I've heard different stories from many different people. Some saying the mexican fans are abusive and obnoxious to the American fans and others have said they had good experiences with the Mexican fans even in Mexico City. Guess it's like any other rivalry.

reinko

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2011, 12:42:26 PM »
So what is the truth about in stadium interaction between Mexican and USA fans over the years? I've heard different stories from many different people. Some saying the mexican fans are abusive and obnoxious to the American fans and others have said they had good experiences with the Mexican fans even in Mexico City. Guess it's like any other rivalry.

I imagine no American is planning on throwing balloons filled with urine and crap in them...

http://www.examiner.com/fitness-in-cleveland/usa-vs-mexico-soccer-the-biggest-rivalry-you-don-t-know-much-about

groove

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2011, 12:48:52 PM »
I imagine no American is planning on throwing balloons filled with urine and crap in them...

http://www.examiner.com/fitness-in-cleveland/usa-vs-mexico-soccer-the-biggest-rivalry-you-don-t-know-much-about

there you go. thanks. At least the US Soccer Fed is now smart enough not to schedule our home World Cup qualifying matches against Mexico in cities, like Houston or Los Angeles. I loved the one we played against them in Feb. in Columbus a few years ago. I think the temperature was in the teens.

JWags85

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2011, 01:09:54 PM »
Watch the video of Donovan being pelted with God knows what when taking a corner a year or two ago at Azteca stadium and then ask if that would ever happen in the US.  I'm not talking about a snowball or an occasional battery in a marshmallow in Philly, I'm talking about police in riot shields protecting him as he lined up.

Jam Chowder

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2011, 01:38:04 PM »
The only thing trashier then El Tri's players are their fans. They are an affront to civilized societies everywhere. Can't stand 'em. Go yanks.

MUfan12

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Re: Futbol Talk
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2011, 01:39:10 PM »
Watch the video of Donovan being pelted with God knows what when taking a corner a year or two ago at Azteca stadium and then ask if that would ever happen in the US.  I'm not talking about a snowball or an occasional battery in a marshmallow in Philly, I'm talking about police in riot shields protecting him as he lined up.

This is just one of the reasons why CONCACAF is a joke. If anything remotely close to this happened during a Euro qualifier, the match would be abandoned, and the game would be played in an empty stadium.

It's shameful and disgusting that stuff is still allowed to happen.