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Author Topic: Futbol Talk  (Read 390228 times)

MUEng92

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2011, 12:18:06 PM »
Or Villa

I just got the Fox Soccer Channel last December, and prior to that I had probably watched parts of a grand total of 3-4 International soccer games in my life (basically US World Cup games).  Translation = I know little about soccer and even less about individual players.

Over the last several months I caught portions of a lot of mostly the English Premier League games and I have to admit, it wasn't bad.  At some point, I finally saw Barcelona play and it took me about 3 minutes to think to myself, "man that Villa guy is a jag".  He turned me into an anti-Barc-ite immediately.

Bocephys

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2011, 12:57:47 PM »
At some point, I finally saw Barcelona play and it took me about 3 minutes to think to myself, "man that Villa guy is a jag".  He turned me into an anti-Barc-ite immediately.

Is that similar to being an anti-dent-ite?

MUEng92

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2011, 08:52:43 PM »
Is that similar to being an anti-dent-ite?
Quite similar!

whodem

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2011, 09:11:48 PM »
I expect Spain to control the ball for 60-70% of the time, and score a goal early in the game. Bradley will play extremely defensive, and Spain will score another one late.. Good warm up for the Gold Cup, which should be a USA-Mexico final like usual.

brewcity77

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2011, 10:26:02 PM »
Here are my thoughts on the roster and Gold Cup:

Keepers: Howard is a no-brainer, Hahnemann is a stout backup, and Rimando's been solid of late. I'd have rather seen a younger guy as the third keeper as Rimando's stature and age means he'll never be in contention for the #1 shirt, but he's got good form, so I guess I can't really complain.

Defenders: Glad to see Lichaj and Ream getting their shot. Boca and 'Dolo are still among the best we have, but considering age, won't likely be part of our 2014 squad. This is probably their swan song. Bornstein and Spector...ehh. Neither excite me, but both have earned time under Bradley. They're strictly past confidence picks. Onyewu and Goodson disappoint me. I think Bradley picked them on the same merit as Bornstein and Spector, but both are slowly getting long in the tooth. I'd rather see guys like Gonzalez, Chandler, or even Boss get a chance (I know...too early).

Midfielders: Dempsey and Donovan are obvious choices. So are Edu and Jones, who should be starting together. However, despite Bradley saying form and recent club time is what matters, why do I have a feeling that Michael Bradley will play virtually every Gold Cup minute? He hasn't cracked Villa's lineup, while Edu and Jones have been very solid. It'll be interesting to see if the younger Bradley sits at all. Bedoya belonged in there from the start, Kljestan and Rogers don't belong in there at all, especially with guys like Mix and Shea out there. The only argument I see for Adu is the hope that he recaptures the form he had with Altidore in the U-20 WC back when. But has he earned this? Not really. And will he even see enough of the pitch to recapture that form? Probably not. So why is he here instead of another forward like Bunbury, Gomez, or Findlay? A curious selection, to say the least.

Forwards: Altidore is a no-brainer, despite not having much club form. He's the guy that does the most for us, despite the lack of goals. He has the pace to stretch the defense, the strength to hold up while Donovan and Dempsey rush in, and the guile to occasionally be a threat himself. Still, for this to really be a successful run for him he probably needs at least 3 goals in the Gold Cup, at least one against a decent team. Agudelo is the fresh new flavor, but while I hope he shines, I have my reservations. We had the same high hopes for Eddie Johnson and Jozy and neither have delivered. Wondolowski is the one guy here who's really earned his place with his play on the pitch. I expect him to see major minutes, here's hoping he can bag a few goals as well.

As far as Spain...well...what will we really do? You don't want to risk injury, so other than Michael Bradley, I don't expect any of the key starters (Donovan, Dempsey, even Howard) to play past the 60 minute mark. Bob Bradley rarely seems to put much stock in winning home friendlies (draw with Poland, really?) so I'm sure that we'll end up on the wrong end of a 2-0 result that could easily be much worse. Honestly, all my eggs are in the Gold Cup basket. Beating Mexico will be a tall order, however. Hopefully home soil will help, but in California against Mexico, is it even home soil in the final? I remember 2007 in Chicago, it was probably 3% American supporters. We'll be lucky to get half that in California.

pux90mex

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2011, 02:56:11 AM »
Since the Mexican national team was brought up by a few posters I won't feel as bad hijacking this thread but... being a fan of both Mexico and the USMNT (yes these people do exist) I see this Mexico team as very very tough to beat. The attack is clicking on all cylinders now that Dos Santos decided to stop being a prima donna. Chicharito is a given but the wingers Guardado and Barrera are basically using the Gold Cup as a tryout for their next team so they will be extra lively. The midfield is old and slow but this may be the swan song for Rafa Marquez and Torrado so I see them going all out for once (its a bummer Sinha won't play most likely after his father passed away in brazil because that man knows how to run a midfield). The back line has a ton of European experience and should hold up well. The biggest weakness is at the keeper position with Ochoa and Talavera both sucking it up.

As others posted, it will come down to the U.S. and Mexico at the Rose Bowl for a ticket to Brazil 2013 and I believe Mexico will finally beat the U.S. in a meaningful game on American soil for the first time in over a decade (last year's 5-0 drubbing was against a B/C team so it doesn't really count)

jesmu84

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2011, 03:48:07 PM »
Midfielders: However, despite Bradley saying form and recent club time is what matters, why do I have a feeling that Michael Bradley will play virtually every Gold Cup minute? He hasn't cracked Villa's lineup, while Edu and Jones have been very solid. It'll be interesting to see if the younger Bradley sits at all.

No Donovan, Dempsey, Bocanegra or Bradley for today against Spain. I guess that tells us what we needed to know about Michael playing in the Gold Cup. I love when nepotism benefits our US national team.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2011, 05:29:26 PM »
FUGLY

Enjoying the Rugby Sevens instead

whodem

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2011, 06:56:03 PM »
Michael Bradley played well today, that was about it. Would also be nice if we had a good coach.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2011, 07:02:48 PM by whodem »

brewcity77

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2011, 08:49:06 AM »
I chalk yesterday up as a game that simply showed how far we are behind the world's elite. I heard plenty of people making the excuses "Donovan and Dempsey didn't start..." but that's crap. Neither did Xavi or Iniesta, and there's little doubt that they are Spain's two most important players. We were decimated, and frankly, the scoreline favored us more than it did Spain. It easily could have been 5-0 at halftime.

Right now the focus has to be the Gold Cup. I fully feel we can win it, but it really depends primarily on our defense. Granted, a slip-up could happen, but the focus has to be on the Rose Bowl, as pux mentioned. If Cherundolo can slow up Guardado and we find some form of central defenders that can both abuse Chicharito while clearing out the entry balls (maybe Boca and a fit Onyewu) we can win. We'll also need someone to competently play left back, my hope is with Lichaj. The midfield will work itself out, and Altidore may not be a scorer, but he can hold up play long enough to make Donovan and Dempsey factors. It wouldn't surprise me if we went 4-5-1 against Mexico, with Donovan and Dempsey on the wings, it would be very easy to shift into a 4-3-3 when we are in attack.

Back to Spain...the only real problem with it is that was our warm-up match. That's the game to get the players ready to play and to get the neutral fans interested in the Gold Cup. Great job, the players looked like assclowns and the neutral fans will be saying "why would I bother watching this team?" We'd have been much better off scheduling a Norway, Slovenia, Australia, or even Portugal, a team that we could have at least competed with yet was respectable on the world scale. I'll still watch the Gold Cup, but I'm a diehard. What borderline supporter would be interested in watching us after that crap?

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2011, 09:47:48 AM »
I chalk yesterday up as a game that simply showed how far we are behind the world's elite. I heard plenty of people making the excuses "Donovan and Dempsey didn't start..." but that's crap. Neither did Xavi or Iniesta, and there's little doubt that they are Spain's two most important players. We were decimated, and frankly, the scoreline favored us more than it did Spain. It easily could have been 5-0 at halftime.


Back to Spain...the only real problem with it is that was our warm-up match. That's the game to get the players ready to play and to get the neutral fans interested in the Gold Cup. Great job, the players looked like assclowns and the neutral fans will be saying "why would I bother watching this team?" We'd have been much better off scheduling a Norway, Slovenia, Australia, or even Portugal, a team that we could have at least competed with yet was respectable on the world scale. I'll still watch the Gold Cup, but I'm a diehard. What borderline supporter would be interested in watching us after that crap?
I agree. I saw my first La Liga game at Real Madrid in 1978, and have been a fan of Spain , for decades...so I have a bias. But....This was only about half of Spain's  world cup squad playing yesterday...key guys coming off of partying over the FC Barca win over ManU...they were by no means rested, or peaking. It was brutal, and easily could have been worse. Santi Cazorla plays for Villareal, for gods sake, which wasnt even top 3 team in La Liga. USA let him look like Messi.

USAs 4 4 2 layback D was dangerous and they got burned. They lack a Ramos/Puyol type shutdown defender. If they planned on resting for the next round-gold cup, USA shouldve scheduled a single dimension team like Ronaldo's Portugal....it would have better prepared them for upcoming north american play. Portugal wouldve still beaten this USA squad, but the styles wouldve been more similar.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 09:49:30 AM by houwarrior »
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pux90mex

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2011, 10:54:52 AM »
While I agree Portugal would have been a better opponent, they had a Euro Qualifier yesterday so that wouldn't have been possible.

What bothers me more than scheduling Spain is waiting til the second half to bring in "the starters." I get the whole rest and no injuries excuse, but playing the first half instead of the second half would have given them the same amount of minutes. It just seemed like a terrible decision by Bradley Sr. now that we were outclassed and embarrassed. All I know is if I was Timmy Howard and I was out there for target practice in the first half, I'd be mightily peeved.

brewcity77

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2011, 11:58:25 AM »
While I agree Portugal would have been a better opponent, they had a Euro Qualifier yesterday so that wouldn't have been possible.

What bothers me more than scheduling Spain is waiting til the second half to bring in "the starters." I get the whole rest and no injuries excuse, but playing the first half instead of the second half would have given them the same amount of minutes. It just seemed like a terrible decision by Bradley Sr. now that we were outclassed and embarrassed. All I know is if I was Timmy Howard and I was out there for target practice in the first half, I'd be mightily peeved.

One possible argument in favor of waiting until the second half...as a result Michael Bradley got to play against Spain when they were already up 3-0 and no longer cared about what we did. As a result, Bradley looked like a better player than Jermaine Jones, giving justification for him to start in the Gold Cup, despite him having no club form whatsoever while Jones and Edu had far superior seasons and have done more in the past 6 months to warrant their selection, not to mention the injured Holden, named player of the season at Bolton.

And houwarrior, why knocking the Yellow Submarine? They were still a top-4 side in Spain and made it into Champions' League qualifying. They also finished ahead of Barca in the standings just 3 years ago and have qualified for Europe 6 of the past 8 seasons. Santi would probably walk into the starting lineup of any club side in the world outside of maybe Barca and Madrid, and would also likely start for any other national team in the world, including Brazil. He may not be Xavi, but he's probably still a top-150 in the world player, if not top-100.

What can I say...Villarreal is my favorite La Liga side...gotta defend 'em ;D

jesmu84

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2011, 12:38:50 PM »
Keeping Bob Bradley around this long has been a true detriment to our national team. His strategy/pre-game planning is average at best. His overreliance on veterans hurts in that he keeps guys around way too long after they bottomed out. His/his coaches ability to spot young talent and develop it is horrible. I'm not sure where our next coach should come from, but Bradley is not the answer.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2011, 12:40:29 PM »

And houwarrior, why knocking the Yellow Submarine? They were still a top-4 side in Spain and made it into Champions' League qualifying. They also finished ahead of Barca in the standings just 3 years ago and have qualified for Europe 6 of the past 8 seasons. Santi would probably walk into the starting lineup of any club side in the world outside of maybe Barca and Madrid, and would also likely start for any other national team in the world, including Brazil. He may not be Xavi, but he's probably still a top-150 in the world player, if not top-100.

What can I say...Villarreal is my favorite La Liga side...gotta defend 'em ;D
I am not knocking any La Liga side. La Liga is the best quality soccer, in el mundo. "Soy de Real" (Real Madrid) is my lifetime loyalty, although I have to admit as a pure fan of great soccer , FC Barcelona plays the beautiful game most beautifully of any side in the world.
To me, World Cup is like olympic basketball, in comparison  to the NBA game....one finds in the Champions, La Liga and Premier, every year. USA fans tend to jump on world cup, but watching regular play in the Euro club leagues, is my preference.  To me, the recent Copa del Rey (Real/Barca) and Barca /ManU matches were as good or better than any world cup match. With Fox and GolTV, we now get pretty good regular coverage.
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.    Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Golden Avalanche

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2011, 02:31:16 PM »
Keeping Bob Bradley around this long has been a true detriment to our national team. His strategy/pre-game planning is average at best. His overreliance on veterans hurts in that he keeps guys around way too long after they bottomed out. His/his coaches ability to spot young talent and develop it is horrible. I'm not sure where our next coach should come from, but Bradley is not the answer.

This.

MUfan12

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2011, 10:59:00 PM »
Keeping Bob Bradley around this long has been a true detriment to our national team. His strategy/pre-game planning is average at best. His overreliance on veterans hurts in that he keeps guys around way too long after they bottomed out. His/his coaches ability to spot young talent and develop it is horrible. I'm not sure where our next coach should come from, but Bradley is not the answer.

I totally agree. He got the tactics and team selection totally wrong against Slovenia and Ghana last summer in South Africa. Having to sub Rico Clark after 30 minutes was pretty damning.

There's absolutely no creativity, and the players that have it typically don't start (save Donovan and Dempsey). Look at Stu Holden. I know he's injured now, but he's hardly had a chance with Bob. Yet, he's good enough to be one of Bolton's best players.

Bob, like his preferred style of play, is safe. Not horrible, not great. With the young players in the pool right now, there is more technical ability than the US has ever had. They need someone to get a cohesive, attacking style and take advantage of that going forward.

Golden Avalanche

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2011, 08:56:44 AM »
I understand most everybody is a nativist at heart and really wants the entire US program to thrive but a foreign manager would cut the fat in this squad in six months not having to be hung up by the bullcrap politics and favorites that snarls an ineffective Bradley.

We're stuck in a marriage of fear.

jesmu84

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2011, 10:00:30 AM »
I understand most everybody is a nativist at heart and really wants the entire US program to thrive but a foreign manager would cut the fat in this squad in six months not having to be hung up by the bullcrap politics and favorites that snarls an ineffective Bradley.

We're stuck in a marriage of fear.up
Absolutely true. After Bruce arena, klinsman wanted the job and he would have done a great job. But when he was told he couldn't have free reign to select his own players for the roster, he walked. And he should have. Unfortunately USA soccer problems don't start or end with Bob Bradley. Gotta start at the top where resident moron gulati day in and day out shows he doesn't know what he's doing.

Canadian Dimes

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #44 on: June 07, 2011, 10:05:13 AM »
I am not knocking any La Liga side. La Liga is the best quality soccer, in el mundo. "Soy de Real" (Real Madrid) is my lifetime loyalty, although I have to admit as a pure fan of great soccer , FC Barcelona plays the beautiful game most beautifully of any side in the world.
To me, World Cup is like olympic basketball, in comparison  to the NBA game....one finds in the Champions, La Liga and Premier, every year. USA fans tend to jump on world cup, but watching regular play in the Euro club leagues, is my preference.  To me, the recent Copa del Rey (Real/Barca) and Barca /ManU matches were as good or better than any world cup match. With Fox and GolTV, we now get pretty good regular coverage.

HOU,

I agree with you on the quality of soccer in the top leagues/top teams.   But not sure u can really comapre it to the NBA and Olympics.  In the sense that the US olympic BBAll team would beat any regular season NBA team in a roll over.   

Not the case with club soccer ...due to the widespread talent accross the nations and the purse strings of teams like BArca and MAnu they can take their top national players ie Iniesta, villa, and Xavi and not fill the team out with other good players from the same country but actually add better players with the likes of a Messi.

i think MAnu would beat the English team.  no way the HEat beat the olympic team.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #45 on: June 07, 2011, 12:40:45 PM »
HOU,
... 
We both see the soccer point the same...but the NBA/olympic analogy wasnt about who'd beat whom...but rather that every 4 year teams converging and briefly playing artificially together, based on nationality, cant compare to a pro/club team who.ve played for years, almost daily together...and the on field product is better. I know many NBA fans....but few who even tune to watch a USA Natl team game in Olympics...their  quality of play just isnt much fun to watch, largely because the national exhibition teams are slapped together, with little practice cohesion, in comparison. 
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brewcity77

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2011, 04:28:44 PM »
Absolutely true. After Bruce arena, klinsman wanted the job and he would have done a great job. But when he was told he couldn't have free reign to select his own players for the roster, he walked. And he should have. Unfortunately USA soccer problems don't start or end with Bob Bradley. Gotta start at the top where resident moron gulati day in and day out shows he doesn't know what he's doing.

There's more to it than that, Klinsmann wanted not only control over selecting players but control over the entire US Soccer system, down to the youth levels. It makes sense because our youth programs are miles behind the German program that Klinsmann is accustomed to, but it was too much for Gulati to give up.

However, that last sentence is exactly right. Gulati doesn't know what he's doing and has been slowly killing us. We could do worse than Bradley, and while I was a huge Bradley detractor, I came around on him eventually. But he never should have been given a second cycle. We saw how poorly that worked with Arena. Whether we stuck with another American or went with a foreigner, fresh blood was needed, especially with the potential nepotism issues when one of the best players is also the coach's son.

My honest hope is that once Jose has captured his Spanish treble, then taken over the reins in Portugal and shocks the world by winning the World Cup behind Ronaldo in 2014, he will finally decide it's time to conquer the world. He's already expressed an interest to coach in the MLS, maybe we could get him to the MLS, then coerce him into taking over our national team. It might be a pipe dream, but he's already said that it interests him...I'd love to get a shot at him before he settles in at Man United for the rest of his career.

houwarrior

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #47 on: June 12, 2011, 08:54:14 AM »
Thank god USA rested in the Spain match , allowing them ,Saturday, to relax, watch and enjoy the energetic team from Panama jumping on them for a 2-1, loss, the first USA loss in a group stage match, ...ever.
This may be good...USA needs an awakening, and some shake ups.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6652766/panama-stuns-united-states-2-1-gold-cup
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Golden Avalanche

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #48 on: June 12, 2011, 11:21:44 AM »
Thank god USA rested in the Spain match , allowing them ,Saturday, to relax, watch and enjoy the energetic team from Panama jumping on them for a 2-1, loss, the first USA loss in a group stage match, ...ever.
This may be good...USA needs an awakening, and some shake ups.

http://espn.go.com/sports/soccer/news/_/id/6652766/panama-stuns-united-states-2-1-gold-cup

I'd agree if there was any semblance of a chance that something would happen. The fact is that Bradley is untouchable. The only thing more stubborn than an idiot is getting an idiot to admit their mistake. Gulati will never have the character to go down this path.

The one thing even a casual observer could see last night was an athletics team that looked like they had no worries in the world. They've simply tuned Bradley out, which always leads to giving up early goals after lackluster starts. He has no leverage over them and everyone knows that.

This team will continue to be a minor league outfit even if they're able to win despite being held back by the structure.

brewcity77

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Re: US vs. Spain
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2011, 09:49:05 PM »
The one thing even a casual observer could see last night was an athletics team that looked like they had no worries in the world. They've simply tuned Bradley out, which always leads to giving up early goals after lackluster starts. He has no leverage over them and everyone knows that.

Boy, does that ever feel familiar. It was just eight years ago that a USA team on the heels of a surprising World Cup run tuned out their manager, and despite coming into the next (2006) Cup with great promise and hype, fell flat on their faces. It's starting to feel like despite our talent level being higher than ever, we're going to crap the bed again in 2014.

This is why NT managers aren't worth keeping around for a second cycle. It didn't have to be a landmark hire, but I'd have rather seen even a Dominic Kinnear or Steve Nicol take over the NT than bringing Bradley back. The biggest problem an international manager has is that time passes them by quickly. You only get 12-16 matches a year, so by the end of a cycle, it's as though you've played one season. But the players age much faster than that. Bradley will stick by guys like Donovan, Dempsey, Onyewu, Bocanegra, and Howard despite them aging. I'm not saying there are better options yet, but Bradley probably won't recognize the better options until it's too late. That's a mistake a new set of eyes at the top wouldn't make, even if they weren't as good tactically as Bradley. And while he may not always be a great tactician, that 2-0 win over Spain in 2009 was probably the greatest tactical maneuvering ever by a USMNT manager.

Sunil Gulati has to go. And Bradley should go with him.