And Newbill Speaks to Rosiak..

[avid1010]

The National Letter of Intent program is a voluntary system run by the Collegiate Commissioners Association out of offices at the NCAA in Indianapolis. It was established so prospects can end the recruiting process by making a formal, signed commitment to a university. Schools benefit by gaining some certainty regarding which athletes will be entering their programs.


I don't care how odd it seems to you, the rule is real.

Thanks, I'm too stupid to know how to use Google, or maybe it's because I was looking for an NCAA rule that didn't exist.  A voluntary program could get mad at us, and that program is in place to give security to a school but not to a player.   By no way is this anything close to cheating, as you clearly accused Buzz of.  By saying what Buzz did was "against the rules" is like saying offering to a freshmen is against the rules.  There's also no past precedence to show that a verbal agreement between a school and player is against the rule, and the teams who have had written formal agreements have not been penalized.  Your cheating comment irked me, and more so now than ever.  I'm sure the NCAA will be knocking on MU's door any day now pertaining to this one!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Here's exactly what I see you said about his life.  I'll go ahead an add the emphasis....


SO DJ's life was severely affected, and it was highly unlikely he'd get a Div 1 scholarship.  Thank God he got one, otherwise you probably would have proclaimed MU ruined his life!

Yes, technically = crapping on a life is only threatening if the crap is bigger than the person, I guess.

However, the implication here is that Marquette took a S#1t on his life.  Does that mean his life is s#1t?  If life is S#it, does that mean it's ruined?

No doubt you'll claim people are reading too much into your words (what?  were we supposed to take them literally! OMG!)

Chicos, you need to open you eyes to how people perceive the things you say.   You may be very careful about avoiding certain phrases, but you also certainly imply much more than you say.

So in summary, I did not, in fact, say MU ruined his life.

Thanks....that's what I thought.

I'm dealing with facts here, not on what you think my intentions were or how you think I meant something.  Words have meanings Rocky, and I'd appreciate it if you and Lenny and others would go by the actual black and white text that I write, not on some bias you carry so you can twist (or invent) words and meanings that aren't there.  That would help us all I think.  Otherwise myself and anyone else on this board is going to be constantly having to defend things they never said but you or others believe were said through some kind of psychic power.  Let's keep it simple, go by what is written.  This is not hard.

Most importantly, this decision DID affect his life, like I correctly said.  And, it was a sh1tty move, in my opinion (which you are, of course, free to disagree with).  One added note, yes he ended up with a DI scholarship, that doesn't mean he ended up with an equivalent one.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Like I said, things have changed.  I thought vows, promises, deals meant something.  (that doesn't mean good people can't get divorced, but simply dumping a good person for another person for essentially no reasons is wrong...don't get married then....oh, and don't offer a NLI...same thing).  That's how I was brought up...honor your commitments, your contracts, your vows.  I still do handshake deals and honor them to the tee.  If extenuating circumstances come up (she's cheating on your ass, your recruit is committing felonies, etc) then that's a different story.


Obviously a lot of people in this country don't anymore, just one of many reasons this country is so fooked.

[Jay Bee]

Chicas... just curious.  Every time a recruit asks to be released from his NLI after a coach leaves a program, do you condemn it (not even with 14,000 posts with the same b.s. over and over again like you do on here, just briefly in your mind)?   It's clear an NLI is an agreement between a student-athlete and an institution... it must upset you.  Do you get upset with schools that agree to cancel the contract upon the student-athlete's request?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicas... just curious.  Every time a recruit asks to be released from his NLI after a coach leaves a program, do you condemn it (not even with 14,000 posts with the same b.s. over and over again like you do on here, just briefly in your mind)?   It's clear an NLI is an agreement between a student-athlete and an institution... it must upset you.  Do you get upset with schools that agree to cancel the contract upon the student-athlete's request?

14,000 posts?

Are you saying a recruit asking out of his NLI when a coach leaves a program is equivalent to a program not honoring a NLI only one month before school starts even though the kid hasn't broken the law, has the proper test scores and grades?

I'm happy to answer your question, but first I need to understand if I'm reading correctly what you are saying.  Are you saying those two things are equivalent or comparable?

[4everwarriors]

yes he ended up with a DI scholarship, that doesn't mean he ended up with an equivalent one.



How does University of Southern Mississippi rank in Forbes vs. Marquette?

[ChicosBailBonds]

yes he ended up with a DI scholarship, that doesn't mean he ended up with an equivalent one.



How does University of Southern Mississippi rank in Forbes vs. Marquette?

Southern Miss  521

MU   330

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_12.html

[Jay Bee]

I'm happy to answer your question, but first I need to understand if I'm reading correctly what you are saying.  Are you saying those two things are equivalent or comparable?

Am I saying 'those two things are equivalent or comparable'?  Huh?  I simply asked you two questions.  

Those were:

1) Every time a recruit asks to be released from his NLI after a coach leaves a program, do you condemn it?; and

2) Do you get upset with schools that agree to cancel the contract upon the student-athlete's request?  

[Lennys Tap]

Here's exactly what I see you said about his life.  I'll go ahead an add the emphasis....


SO DJ's life was severely affected, and it was highly unlikely he'd get a Div 1 scholarship.  Thank God he got one, otherwise you probably would have proclaimed MU ruined his life!

Yes, technically = crapping on a life is only threatening if the crap is bigger than the person, I guess.

However, the implication here is that Marquette took a S#1t on his life.  Does that mean his life is s#1t?  If life is S#it, does that mean it's ruined?

No doubt you'll claim people are reading too much into your words (what?  were we supposed to take them literally! OMG!)

Chicos, you need to open you eyes to how people perceive the things you say.   You may be very careful about avoiding certain phrases, but you also certainly imply much more than you say.

Chicos is forever drawing inferences that aren't there - one of his personal favorites is accusing people of calling others Hitler when they voice disagreement or call character into question. But not even logical inferences can be drawn from what he says.

[Marquette84]

Thanks, I'm too stupid to know how to use Google, or maybe it's because I was looking for an NCAA rule that didn't exist.  A voluntary program could get mad at us, and that program is in place to give security to a school but not to a player.   By no way is this anything close to cheating, as you clearly accused Buzz of.  By saying what Buzz did was "against the rules" is like saying offering to a freshmen is against the rules.  There's also no past precedence to show that a verbal agreement between a school and player is against the rule, and the teams who have had written formal agreements have not been penalized.  Your cheating comment irked me, and more so now than ever.  I'm sure the NCAA will be knocking on MU's door any day now pertaining to this one!

I'm curious to know what you would call an intentional disregard for the NLI rules if not cheating? 

Say Kentucky continues the practice of offering players side deals to release them from their NLI if Calipari left, would you call that cheating? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos is forever drawing inferences that aren't there - one of his personal favorites is accusing people of calling others Hitler when they voice disagreement or call character into question. But not even logical inferences can be drawn from what he says.

Nope, because that's done (Hitler comparison) totally in jest and is so over the top that everyone knows it's an exaggeration. Of course, I've also never said Lenny or insert poster called Tom Crean, Hitler.  I've used the term in an exaggeration.

Now let's compare.  You accused me of saying Buzz and\or Marquette ruined this kids life.  So much so, you actually put it in quotes...three different times.  Now, are the two comparable?

I'm sure you understand the difference.  At least I hope you do.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Am I saying 'those two things are equivalent or comparable'?  Huh?  I simply asked you two questions.  

Those were:

1) Every time a recruit asks to be released from his NLI after a coach leaves a program, do you condemn it?; and

2) Do you get upset with schools that agree to cancel the contract upon the student-athlete's request?  

And I asked for clarification....you see, you made the bridge argument that since I'm upset that MU didn't honor this NLI then I must be upset when a player leaves as a result of a coach quitting.  Did you not make that bridge comparison and try to make a case that I should be upset because they are somehow equivalent?  You flat out say "it must upset you"  If you didn't, my apologies, that's how I read it.

So, let's assume you weren't trying to make that equivalent, I'm happy to answer the questions since they have no relevancy to what happened with Newbill.  None.  

Do I condemn a player for leaving when a coach leaves a program?  I don't like it, I think the kid should honor his commitment to the school.  That being said, the absolute reality is that most kids don't sign on to play for a school, they sign on to play for a coach so when that coach leaves, players wish to be removed from their NLI because the circumstances of their commitment changed in a fundamentally major fashion.  

For number 2, yes, I do get upset with schools that release kids from their NLI.  Reality, again, is that the kid almost assuredly signed to play for that coach and doesn't particularly care about the school.  If the school doesn't release the player, than the kid is going to dog it, not try, be a disruptive force on the team.  Furthermore, it will stain the reputation of the program for future recruits by not letting them walk.

[Lennys Tap]

Nope, because that's done (Hitler comparison) totally in jest and is so over the top that everyone knows it's an exaggeration. Of course, I've also never said Lenny or insert poster called Tom Crean, Hitler.  I've used the term in an exaggeration.

Now let's compare.  You accused me of saying Buzz and\or Marquette ruined this kids life.  So much so, you actually put it in quotes...three different times.  Now, are the two comparable?

I'm sure you understand the difference.  At least I hope you do.

No, you don't name names when you accuse people of calling your allies (TC, Philly coach,etc) Hitler. It's your way of demonizing anyone who disagrees with you. If you think this "jest" is in any way shape of form funny you're sadly mistaken.
As I said earlier, if I misquoted you and thereby exagerrated your outrage with Buzz and Marquette I apologize. But if you're going to be so sensitive about words meaning something maybe you should stop accusing people of screaming when they're not or calling someone Hitler when they don't.

[MUfan12]

Southern Miss  521

MU   330

who cares what fourbes says does the othr golden eagles choke in the ncaa tournament?

[ChicosBailBonds]

As I said earlier, if I misquoted you and thereby exagerrated your outrage with Buzz and Marquette I apologize.

Apology accepted

[ChicosBailBonds]

who cares what fourbes says does the othr golden eagles choke in the ncaa tournament?

Perhaps you should steer this to 4ever who asked the question.  I was simply being nice enough to answer it for him.

[wadesworld]

Totally disagree. Anyone who doesn't marry and remain forever faithful to their grade school sweetheart is a hypocrite. Any company that lets an employee go because someone else can do a better job is beyond heartless. Any employee that leaves his/her employer is equal parts selfish and disloyal. And anyone who disagrees with my utopian vision should be shot.

Well put

[4everwarriors]

Southern Miss  521

MU   330

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/94/best-colleges-10_Americas-Best-Colleges_State_12.html

So, they both suck, then.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well put

Cura Personalis.....

[avid1010]

I'm curious to know what you would call an intentional disregard for the NLI rules if not cheating? 

Say Kentucky continues the practice of offering players side deals to release them from their NLI if Calipari left, would you call that cheating? 

You said what Buzz did was illegal and against the rules, I made the stupid assumption that you were saying he did something to violate a NCAA rule...I won't even get into you using the word "illegal."  I wonder how many recruits have talked to coaches about prep school as an option for a million and one reasons.  The NLI is not legally binding for the school.  If Buzz told DJ that he was going to keep recruiting and drop DJ if he found someone better, but he'd be welcome at MU the following year, there's nothing "illegal" about it from what I've read in the information you provided.

In regards to your question about Kentucky.  1.  What you have described in that situation and what MU might have done are two VERY different things.  2.  No, I would not call it cheating and from what I read in your post, neither would the NCAA.  The National Letter of Intent program might, but it sounds voluntary to me, and it also sounds like it is there to protect the colleges and not the players.

Let me ask you a few questions.  If you are worried about coaches shafting potential recruits don't you think the NLI program is a complete joke as it protects the school but not the recruit?  Do you think Kentucky is worried about being kicked out of the program for offering kids the security they need (and are requesting) to rest assured they can leave a school if their coach leaves?  Do you think schools should put it in writing that they are willing to let a kid out of scholarship if a coach leaves?  If a five star recruit walked on MU's campus and offered to sign for next year but request MU put it in writing that he could leave if Buzz left do you feel MU should do so?

[MUfan12]

Perhaps you should steer this to 4ever who asked the question.  I was simply being nice enough to answer it for him.

Haha I know... was a reference to the "NCAA tourney" thread from yesterday.

[bilsu]

Buzz said someone might be going to prep school and that person knew it. Based on Newbill saying he had no knowledge of it, Buzz was not talking about him. Also there is no indication that Newbill was even given the option at the end to go to prep school. Therefore, you can reasonably conclude that there was no side deal made with Newbill when he sign his NLI. In my opinion Buzz signed a player that had a chance of not qualifying and whoever that was would have gone to prep school, if he did not get in. Newbill was cut. What we do not know was it based purely on basketball ability or was there something else going on. You can debate why Newbill was cut if you want, but there is no eveidence to conclude that Buzz had a side deal with Newbill.

[avid1010]

Buzz said someone might be going to prep school and that person knew it. Based on Newbill saying he had no knowledge of it, Buzz was not talking about him. Also there is no indication that Newbill was even given the option at the end to go to prep school. Therefore, you can reasonably conclude that there was no side deal made with Newbill when he sign his NLI. In my opinion Buzz signed a player that had a chance of not qualifying and whoever that was would have gone to prep school, if he did not get in. Newbill was cut. What we do not know was it based purely on basketball ability or was there something else going on. You can debate why Newbill was cut if you want, but there is no eveidence to conclude that Buzz had a side deal with Newbill.

Agreed...unless you buy into IWB's story that there was such a deal in place.

[ATWizJr]

Buzz said someone might be going to prep school and that person knew it. Based on Newbill saying he had no knowledge of it, Buzz was not talking about him. Also there is no indication that Newbill was even given the option at the end to go to prep school. Therefore, you can reasonably conclude that there was no side deal made with Newbill when he sign his NLI. In my opinion Buzz signed a player that had a chance of not qualifying and whoever that was would have gone to prep school, if he did not get in. Newbill was cut. What we do not know was it based purely on basketball ability or was there something else going on. You can debate why Newbill was cut if you want, but there is no eveidence to conclude that Buzz had a side deal with Newbill.

/and, of course, Newbill would have no incentive to put the best possible spin on it for himself, right?  We really don't know all the facts so it's foolish, if amusing, for all of us to be making iron clad statements and judgements.

[Ready2Fly]

Oversigning is allowed. We did it and Newbill was the odd man out. What more is there to say? Time to move on.