And Newbill Speaks to Rosiak..

[Marquette84]

Hence why you two argue for 7+ pages trying to convince EVERYBODY ELSE that Buzz is terribly at fault when you have absolutely 0 knowledge of the situation!

The real problem is that you and others are spending 7+ pages trying to defend Buzz by accusing him of cheating.  

To summarize what I hear you and others saying:  "Oh, no, Buzz isn't the bad guy in this.  Newbill just didn't understand the secret illegal deal that Buzz made with him to send him to Prep School."  

[Benny B]

Just so we're clear, using this definition (which, technically, is not the definition of hearsay -- not even particularly close), what do we know about this entire situation that is not "hearsay"?

Great... here come the MU Law grads.

Actually, hearsay - when not used in the legal sense - is a synonym of "rumor."  So technically, my definition is correct, because that's all that's being discussed here: rumors, speculation and the like.

I'm sorry... I just don't buy the argument that the facts are in and the debate is over based on a few self-serving statements made by the Newbill camp and MU coaching staff.

[Pakuni]

The real problem is that you and others are spending 7+ pages trying to defend Buzz by accusing him of cheating.  

To summarize what I hear you and others saying:  "Oh, no, Buzz isn't the bad guy in this.  Newbill just didn't understand the secret illegal deal that Buzz made with him to send him to Prep School."  

You've stated multiple times in this thread that any side deal between MU and Newbill would be an NCAA violation, illegal, cheating and other words to that effect, yet - far as I can tell - have not provided any citation/link to back up that claim.
I hope you're searching for that feverishly right now.
While you're at it, please explain for us why Memphis was not punished for cutting side deals with several recruits, including Xavier Henry and Derrick Rose, that agreed to let them out of the NLIs if John Calipari bolted. And why didn't the NCAA - recognizing the clear violation that you say such an agreement would be - enforce the NLIs and require Henry to attend Memphis? Or are you suggesting that Memphis flaunted NCAA rules, and the NCAA chose to do nothing about it?
Inquiring minds, at least mine, want to know.


http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14290603

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-03-30-calipari-recruits_N.htm

[bilsu]

There are a lot of assumptions, conclusions and accusations about what actually happen in the Newbill situation. Obviously Buzz is not commenting on this. I think this is the right thing to do no matter what actually happen. What do you guys think? Should Buzz say something publically and explain what actually happened?

[4everwarriors]

Is MU Law still a tier 3 school?

[Strokin 3s]

You've stated multiple times in this thread that any side deal between MU and Newbill would be an NCAA violation, illegal, cheating and other words to that effect, yet - far as I can tell - have not provided any citation/link to back up that claim.
I hope you're searching for that feverishly right now.
While you're at it, please explain for us why Memphis was not punished for cutting side deals with several recruits, including Xavier Henry and Derrick Rose, that agreed to let them out of the NLIs if John Calipari bolted. And why didn't the NCAA - recognizing the clear violation that you say such an agreement would be - enforce the NLIs and require Henry to attend Memphis? Or are you suggesting that Memphis flaunted NCAA rules, and the NCAA chose to do nothing about it?
Inquiring minds, at least mine, want to know.


http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14290603

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-03-30-calipari-recruits_N.htm

I actually agree with most of the other stuff you have said in this thread Pakuni, but the NCAA actually made the "no side deals" provision up because of the Calipari Memphis deals he was making.

[Marquette84]

You've stated multiple times in this thread that any side deal between MU and Newbill would be an NCAA violation, illegal, cheating and other words to that effect, yet - far as I can tell - have not provided any citation/link to back up that claim.
I hope you're searching for that feverishly right now.
While you're at it, please explain for us why Memphis was not punished for cutting side deals with several recruits, including Xavier Henry and Derrick Rose, that agreed to let them out of the NLIs if John Calipari bolted. And why didn't the NCAA - recognizing the clear violation that you say such an agreement would be - enforce the NLIs and require Henry to attend Memphis? Or are you suggesting that Memphis flaunted NCAA rules, and the NCAA chose to do nothing about it?
Inquiring minds, at least mine, want to know.


http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14290603

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-03-30-calipari-recruits_N.htm

Calipari? Memphis?

Seriously?

Maybe you should "fervently research" the so-called "Calipari rule."  I'm sure you'll find enough to more than fill your inquiring mind. 

[Pakuni]

I actually agree with most of the other stuff you have said in this thread Pakuni, but the NCAA actually made the "no side deals" provision up because of the Calipari Memphis deals he was making.

You are correct.
My mistake. (Tucks tail, flees thread).

[jesmu84]

1) Unless the kid doesn't qualify, or has legal troubles, MU should honor it's NLI

Doesn't he have to be enrolled/admitted to MU to warrant the university honoring the NLI?

[PJDunn]

Is MU Law still a tier 3 school?

I believe that they share offices and classroom space with the dental hygiene program.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Doesn't he have to be enrolled/admitted to MU to warrant the university honoring the NLI?

Correct....and school starts in late August, not July when he was ousted.

Let's put it another way, if the athlete in question was a 5 star player and hadn't turned in his application yet, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  The rigidity of rules is often directly correlated to the talent level of person (this goes for business, sports, etc).  This is why guys with great talent often get 2nd and 3rd chances while the 3rd string punter or offensive tackle is cut with no exceptions to "send a message".

[ChicosBailBonds]

Wow is inane thread has gone on for 9 pages maybe by posting this I can get it to 10

I'm curious why it's an inane thread if half the posters in this thread are advocating that what Buzz did is ok, despite it being against NCAA rules?  That doesn't mean Buzz did it, but it's revealing as hell in terms of what some posters think is permissible or not.


Ziggy......sigh.   

[4everwarriors]

Athletes are able to apply for admission long after the application deadline has passed for all other students.

[ATWizJr]

This horse is dead.  Why are we continuing to beat it?  It will change nothing, it will not help the program and the continued, extended, public, criticism could well hurt the program.  This has become a stage for certain party(s) to thump their chest and proclaim how much more compassionate, understanding and morally better they are than their others and has become redundant, pointless and BORING.  And all this without anyone really knowing ALL the details.  Forward.

[Lennys Tap]

Correct....and school starts in late August, not July when he was ousted.

Let's put it another way, if the athlete in question was a 5 star player and hadn't turned in his application yet, we wouldn't be having this conversation.  The rigidity of rules is often directly correlated to the talent level of person (this goes for business, sports, etc).  This is why guys with great talent often get 2nd and 3rd chances while the 3rd string punter or offensive tackle is cut with no exceptions to "send a message".

True enough. Remember the controversy when Jesus "ousted" 2 star apostle Judas but forgave 5 star recruit Peter for his betrayls? Pete even got the Captain's job. Life just aint fair.

[Benny B]

True enough. Remember the controversy when Jesus "ousted" 2 star apostle Judas but forgave 5 star recruit Peter for his betrayls? Pete even got the Captain's job. Life just aint fair.

Fair or not, Peter was made the captain because only a rabbit could lead the team to victory.

[rocky_warrior]

I may have said it, but the search Gods don't seem to be able to find it, but if I did, I'd like to see the full context.

Here's exactly what I see you said about his life.  I'll go ahead an add the emphasis....

You get real.  On June 30th, what college options are available to him that were available to him back in March?  Few, if any.   This is a person's life.  If this was your son or daughter, you would be pissed as hell.  It doesn't matter if the kid can go play somewhere else, his options have been curtailed seriously at this point.  Does he now have to go somewhere he didn't really want to go?  Does he have to sit out a year?  Etc, etc.  Those are life decisions and LIFE AFFECTING.  Sorry you can't see the obvious and make it sound like he can just pick up the phone and get added to a DI team on July 1st, less two months before school starts and after almost all scholarships around the country are GONE!

SO DJ's life was severely affected, and it was highly unlikely he'd get a Div 1 scholarship.  Thank God he got one, otherwise you probably would have proclaimed MU ruined his life!

I want Buzz to make the program better, without crapping on a person's life in the process.  Sorry, that's just how I am.

Yes, technically = crapping on a life is only threatening if the crap is bigger than the person, I guess.

However, the implication here is that Marquette took a S#1t on his life.  Does that mean his life is s#1t?  If life is S#it, does that mean it's ruined?

No doubt you'll claim people are reading too much into your words (what?  were we supposed to take them literally! OMG!)

Chicos, you need to open you eyes to how people perceive the things you say.   You may be very careful about avoiding certain phrases, but you also certainly imply much more than you say.

[avid1010]

The real problem is that you and others are spending 7+ pages trying to defend Buzz by accusing him of cheating.  

To summarize what I hear you and others saying:  "Oh, no, Buzz isn't the bad guy in this.  Newbill just didn't understand the secret illegal deal that Buzz made with him to send him to Prep School."  

I'd like to see the rule myself.  Please post where you got that information from.  I'd be interested to see if there's interpretation or a past precedence involved.  Buzz had been talking about a player going to prep school route for a long time publicly...seems odd that he would do so if against NCAA rules.  According to your post where you stated, "As for facts, the inconvenient one with the Newbill situation is that it is against the rules to have made any sort of prep school deal--even a private one that is only made verbally." it would then be illegal for a kid to sign a NLI and say to a coach if I don't qualify I'd like to go to prep school and then see you in a year?  I'd think the Butler and Fulce situation might be similar as well?

Many of us are saying that we don't know the whole truth, so we are reserving judgement.  I've said all along it seems like Buzz pulled a bad move, but I'm not going to publicly bash him without all the facts, and based on assumptions. 

[bilsu]

I'd like to see the rule myself.  Please post where you got that information from.  I'd be interested to see if there's interpretation or a past precedence involved.  Buzz had been talking about a player going to prep school route for a long time publicly...seems odd that he would do so if against NCAA rules.  According to your post where you stated, "As for facts, the inconvenient one with the Newbill situation is that it is against the rules to have made any sort of prep school deal--even a private one that is only made verbally." it would then be illegal for a kid to sign a NLI and say to a coach if I don't qualify I'd like to go to prep school and then see you in a year?  I'd think the Butler and Fulce situation might be similar as well?

Many of us are saying that we don't know the whole truth, so we are reserving judgement.  I've said all along it seems like Buzz pulled a bad move, but I'm not going to publicly bash him without all the facts, and based on assumptions. 

If he was cheating the NCAA would be snooping around. There is no indication of that going on. The only question is whether Buzz did something immoral. I personally think NLI's should be honored, unless there is a good reason not to. Right now we really do not know the reason this happen. Some believe Newbill was just sold out for a better player, if that is the case than I have a problem with it. I do think it is odd that Newbill did not submit his paper work and that is a red flag to me.

[MerrittsMustache]

If he was cheating the NCAA would be snooping around. There is no indication of that going on. The only question is whether Buzz did something immoral. I personally think NLI's should be honored, unless there is a good reason not to. Right now we really do not know the reason this happen. Some believe Newbill was just sold out for a better player, if that is the case than I have a problem with it. I do think it is odd that Newbill did not submit his paper work and that is a red flag to me.

Just to play devil's advocate...Why do you have a problem with dropping a player in order to bring in a better player? In other words, why do you have a problem with improving the team?

[wildbillsb]

Cura Personalis, no?

[mu_hilltopper]

Just to play devil's advocate...Why do you have a problem with dropping a player in order to bring in a better player? In other words, why do you have a problem with improving the team?

Totally agree!   I mean, if you find a prettier girl, you should totally dump the one you are committed to, so you can improve your lot in life.  People are just too damn hung up on promises.  It's all about improving.

[Marquette84]

I'd like to see the rule myself.  Please post where you got that information from.  I'd be interested to see if there's interpretation or a past precedence involved. 

15 seconds on google and you can find all the information you need. Here's one report (emphasis added):

NCAA says no conditions allowed on letters of intent

http://www.sportingnews.com/college-basketball/article/2009-10-01/ncaa-says-no-conditions-allowed-on-letters-intent#ixzz0wUT6BxS8

Mike DeCourcy, Sporting News
Thursday, Oct. 1, 2009 - 3:28 p.m. ET

When basketball star Xavier Henry signed a letter of intent last fall to play for the University of Memphis, his agreement included an addendum stating the university would release him from that obligation if John Calipari were no longer the Tigers' coach.

Such deals now out of bounds in college sports.

The National Letter of Intent Policy and Review Committee sent a memo to member schools Thursday announcing that "institutions should be aware they are prohibited from establishing any additional conditions associated with the NLI agreement in advance of a prospective student-athlete signing the NLI."

A copy of the memo was provided to Sporting News by a Division I basketball coach.

The memo declares that if any institution or its employees "offer additional conditions, the prospective student-athletes NLI is subject to being declared null and void along with possible institutional penalties." Susan Peal of the NLI office said possible punishments range from a letter of admonishment to expulsion from the National Letter of Intent program.

The National Letter of Intent program is a voluntary system run by the Collegiate Commissioners Association out of offices at the NCAA in Indianapolis. It was established so prospects can end the recruiting process by making a formal, signed commitment to a university. Schools benefit by gaining some certainty regarding which athletes will be entering their programs.

The concept of an addendum promising an NLI release had become more popular recently, as releases from the letter became easier to obtain. It escalated last year, with top-10 prospect DeMarcus Cousins refusing to sign at UAB because the school would not agree to release him if coach Mike Davis were to leave, and when Henry and guard Nolan Dennis abandoned their signed letters with Memphis after Calipari departed for Kentucky.

The letter of intent includes clauses mandating eligibility penalties for those athletes who do not spend at least one academic year at the school where they sign, but the past decade has seen more players gain releases when circumstances change – such as a coach being fired or taking another job.

The NLI committee's memo said an athlete who wants to be released from a signed letter will need to follow the standard procedures of submitting a request form.

Buzz had been talking about a player going to prep school route for a long time publicly...seems odd that he would do so if against NCAA rules.

I don't care how odd it seems to you, the rule is real.

It is against the rules for the school to make a deal and/or impose an extra condition on a player's NLI.  The NLI does not have an option to send a kid to prep school for a year. 

I don't know what actually happened with Newbill--but I can say with certainty that if (stressing the word if) Buzz made such a deal with Newbill it would be a violation.

According to your post where you stated, "As for facts, the inconvenient one with the Newbill situation is that it is against the rules to have made any sort of prep school deal--even a private one that is only made verbally." it would then be illegal for a kid to sign a NLI and say to a coach if I don't qualify I'd like to go to prep school and then see you in a year?  I'd think the Butler and Fulce situation might be similar as well?

Do you really see no difference between a school making an improper prep-school deal and a kid deciding on his own that he wants to go to to prep school?

Just in case you really are confused by the difference,  No, it is not illegal for a kid to sign an NLI, then go to the coach and ask to attend prep school. 

Its only illegal for the school to add the condition that "We'll accept your NLI, but only under the condition that you attend prep school for a year if we happen to find a better player."

Many of us are saying that we don't know the whole truth, so we are reserving judgement. I've said all along it seems like Buzz pulled a bad move, but I'm not going to publicly bash him without all the facts, and based on assumptions. 

I think it goes beond reserving judgement. 

People here have made accusations that Buzz made a side deal with Newbill in order to be consistent with the claim that Newbill deserves blame for reneging on his end.

If anyone wants to believe that Buzz and Newbill had a deal becuase it makes them feel better about the way Newbill's departure was handled, go right ahead. 

But don't shoot the messenger for poining out that such a deal is against the rules.

[MerrittsMustache]

Totally agree!   I mean, if you find a prettier girl, you should totally dump the one you are committed to, so you can improve your lot in life.  People are just too damn hung up on promises.  It's all about improving.

If you landed wife who could cost you your job because she doesn't bring as much to the table as another suitor over your maximum 4-year marriage then I'd say, Dump her and find someone better!

You see how that analogy doesn't really hold up? Besides, signing a NLI isn't a sacrament

[Lennys Tap]

Totally agree!   I mean, if you find a prettier girl, you should totally dump the one you are committed to, so you can improve your lot in life.  People are just too damn hung up on promises.  It's all about improving.

Totally disagree. Anyone who doesn't marry and remain forever faithful to their grade school sweetheart is a hypocrite. Any company that lets an employee go because someone else can do a better job is beyond heartless. Any employee that leaves his/her employer is equal parts selfish and disloyal. And anyone who disagrees with my utopian vision should be shot.