And Newbill Speaks to Rosiak..

[MUSF]

Fact:  Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship

Fact:  Newbill signed a NLI

Fact:  Buzz stated that an incoming recruit would probably have to go to prep school and that the recruit knew this.

Fact:  Newbill's camp stated that he is not going to prep school

Fact:  Newbill had not turned in an application or registered for the Pro-Am

Fact:  Newbill claims MU asked him to request a release from his NLI

Fact:  Newbill asks for the release

Fact:  Jamil Wilson transfers to MU

Fact:  Newbill signs with another D1 program and appears to be fully qualified academically to enroll and play in the fall

That is a rundown of most of the pertinent facts.  Now, based on these facts, we know that MU released a player that they offered a scholarship to and that player appears to have no outstanding academic or disciplinary issues that would have prevented him from attending MU.  The only possible facts that could come out to change the situation significantly are some previously undisclosed academic, discipline, or character issues.  That would seem highly unlikely given Newbill's signing with Southern Miss.  

So, you either think MU should honor all NLIs or you don't.  Those that don't could be broken into subsets based on the circumstances they think justify MU not honoring an NLI, but there are still just two general opinions you could have based on the facts.  

Those of you that want everyone to refrain from having an opinion or making a judgement on this issue because of a lack of facts are simply muddying the water.  Even if Newbill has been lying the entire time, the fact remains that MU offered a scholarship and pulled it.  You are either okay with that or you aren't.

[PE8983]

You were doing fine until: "The only possible facts that could come out to change the situation significantly are some previously undisclosed academic, discipline, or character issues."  After that, you are just rambling your opinion which you've done a million times.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Why don't I call out those that think Buzz isn't at fault? Because they usually state that they don't know what happened but in their opinion it probably went something like... When you talk you say things like "Yes in my opinion" when someone asks you whose opinion MU should base what is right on. It's an absolute joke and sums up how you post. You post as if you know absolutely everything and what you say is right and whoever disagrees with you is "a child" when in fact you act like the child. It's like you never moved past the phase of life where you are the center of the world. You just never realized that people form differing opinions and you aren't always right. It's okay to be wrong or to let people have their own opinions without thinking of them as a "child." You have yet to realize that, and you make it very well known.

The irony in that paragraph is delicious on so many levels.  There are a ton of people that post with the "my way or the highway" approach here, yet you only get their dander up when it's a viewpoint you don't agree with, then it's suddenly childish, self centered, etc.  There is a perfect correlation with your above feelings when it has to deal with someone's opinion you disagree with, but when it's someone you agree with you don't say a damn thing.  Unfortunately, that's reality and the hypocrisy in your response.

I get plenty of private emails here from people that disagree or agree with me.  A number of those that agree with me on this topic have flat out said they aren't participating in the thread (in some cases, this board) because people just trash them left and right.  It's not worth it.  Me, I don't give a damn if that happens.  These are all just opinions.

[MUSF]

You were doing fine until: "The only possible facts that could come out to change the situation significantly are some previously undisclosed academic, discipline, or character issues."  After that, you are just rambling your opinion which you've done a million times.

Yes, I stated my opinion based on a logical interpretation of the facts.  It is my opinion that it is unlikely that Newbill has any significant academic, disciplinary, or character issues that would preclude him from attending MU, based on the fact that he has signed on with another D1 program and the fact that MU and Newbill have given us no reason to believe otherwise.

It is my position that we all have enough facts to form an opinion.  You apparently disagree.  Therefore, I assume you have no opinion on this situation, otherwise you would be forming an opinion based on an assumption about Buzz and/or Newbill.

EDIT:  Interesting that when I check your post history I find a lot of opinions on the Newbill situation.  Since you don't have all of the facts, how did you form those opinions?

[mugrad99]

I am probably in the silent majority that think:

1) Unles the kid doesn't qualify, or has legal troubles, MU should honor it's NLI
2) In the grand scheme of things, we appear to have landed a better player, so no Big Deal, just try not to do it again.

Is that hypocritical, probably. But it's not like we stopped Newbill from getting a free education (Insert Southern school joke here). And I consider it Kharmic retribution for losing Tyshawn Taylor.

[StillAWarrior]

I am probably in the silent majority that think:

1) Unles the kid doesn't qualify, or has legal troubles, MU should honor it's NLI
2) In the grand scheme of things, we appear to have landed a better player, so no Big Dealand I'm glad to have him, just try not to do it again.

Is that hypocritical, probably. But it's not like we stopped Newbill from getting a free education (Insert Southern school joke here). And I consider it Kharmic retribution for losing Tyshawn Taylor.

With only a very minor modification, I'm on board with this.  I still think it's a bit of a big deal, but not the end of the world.  But, I am glad Wilson is on board.

Honestly, I suspect Chico -- everybody's favorite supposed extremist on this topic -- would probably agree with either your or my very non-extreme statement.  I'm sure he'll let us know.

[Benny B]

Fact:  Buzz offered Newbill a scholarship

Fact:  Newbill signed a NLI

Fact:  Buzz stated that an incoming recruit would probably have to go to prep school and that the recruit knew this.

Fact:  Newbill's camp stated that he is not going to prep school

Fact:  Newbill had not turned in an application or registered for the Pro-Am

Fact:  Newbill claims MU asked him to request a release from his NLI

Fact:  Newbill asks for the release

Fact:  Jamil Wilson transfers to MU

Fact:  Newbill signs with another D1 program and appears to be fully qualified academically to enroll and play in the fall

That is a rundown of most of the pertinent facts......

....Even if Newbill has been lying the entire time, the fact remains that MU offered a scholarship and pulled it.  You are either okay with that or you aren't.

When somebody says something that you can't verify, that's called hearsay, not fact.

[77ncaachamps]

When somebody says something that you can't verify, that's called hearsay, not fact.

Yes, but not if someone states something that may be hearsay.

Then THAT is a fact.

[PE8983]

"It is my position that we all have enough facts to form an opinion.  You apparently disagree.  Therefore, I assume you have no opinion on this situation, otherwise you would be forming an opinion based on an assumption about Buzz and/or Newbill.

EDIT:  Interesting that when I check your post history I find a lot of opinions on the Newbill situation.  Since you don't have all of the facts, how did you form those opinions?"

So, first you complain that I don't have an opinion, then you question my opinion.  Classic...  

I've stated only facts in my posts, and then formed an opinion from those facts.  I am not claiming my opinion as fact, in contrast to some others on here.

[StillAWarrior]

When somebody says something that you can't verify, that's called hearsay, not fact.

Just so we're clear, using this definition (which, technically, is not the definition of hearsay -- not even particularly close), what do we know about this entire situation that is not "hearsay"?

[Pakuni]

When somebody says something that you can't verify, that's called hearsay, not fact.

Actually, hearsay is when one person relays what another person said to them/in their presence, i.e. "Chico's told me Buzz Williams shaves his head to keep his horns from growing too long."
That would be hearsay.

[MUSF]

When somebody says something that you can't verify, that's called hearsay, not fact.

Didn't Newbill state that MU asked him to request his release?  Is that hearsay or someone providing their recollection of the facts?  As I stated, Newbill could be blatantly lying and he actually asked for his release without being prompted by MU.  In my opinion, that is unlikely but it is possible.

Does anyone from MU dispute DJ's account that he was asked to request his release?

[MUSF]

So, first you complain that I don't have an opinion, then you question my opinion.  Classic...  

I didn't complain that you don't have an opinion and I didn't question your opinion.

I assumed you had no opinion based on your response to my post.  When I found that you did have an opinion, I wondered sarcastically (sorry no teal) how you could form that opinion without all of the facts.

[Skatastrophy]

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny, this is the third time now where you've accused me of saying the dropping of this kid would ruin his life.  Can you please bring up the post that I said that and the ENTIRE post for some context.  I can't find it.  I may have said it, but since I'm oft accused here of saying things I didn't and then have to prove people wrong, like yesterday, I'd appreciate that courtesy.  I definitely said it affects the lives of these people, but I need help where I said his life would be ruined like you continue to imply I said.

Is it this one?   http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20919.msg221230#msg221230

Or this one?  http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=20923.msg221298#msg221298

Give me that courtesy so I can respond in full context.  Thanks.


As far as Buzz and IWB, I have no reason not to believe either one and have said nothing different of the sort.  So let me ask you this question, was Buzz the one always communicating to Newbill?  Sure sounds like from the Newbill camp that it was often Scott Monarch.  Now, Lenny, I'm sure you have some employees working for you and often they have to associate with vendors or partners or clients, do you know everything that is said to them?  Are you in every one of those calls?  Does it ever happen where a subordinate miscommunicates to a vendor or party on your behalf?  Can any of these things happen to MU basketball during the recruiting process?

There is no doubt that somewhere there was a major communications breakdown, whether that was with Newbill, or Buzz (or his staff), or both, who knows.   I'll repeat, however, that running around calling the recruit and his family liars seems less than productive and incredibly unseemly.  Maybe it's not for you....to each his own.  When I say I'm not drinking the Kool-Aid, it means I'm not buying 100% of that side of the story.  That doesn't mean I don't believe him, it means there are two sides of the story and the complete truth probably lies somewhere else.  You make this an all or nothing proposition...if you don't buy the MU version you believe Buzz is a liar....this, is where your reading comprehension still suffers greatly and your logic even more so. 

I'm not even sure how to "search" to find all of your posts on this matter(I'm old and not nearly as computer savvy as you). I also don't know if any of your posts have been  modified or edited since you first wrote them. I do know that in addition to the examples you cite you also accused Buzz of "crapping on a person's life" (It's a brief post, no real context to it, but I don't know how to link it).  I also know that in one of my posts I put "ruining a kid's life" in qoutations. I'm not one to do that unless I'm quoting directly. But in the unlikely event I was paraphrasing rather than quoting you verbatim I apologize.

[jesmu84]

DJ was never admitted/enrolled at MU, right? So is MU required to honor the NLI if he's not a student at MU?

[Strokin 3s]

No.

[Canadian Dimes]

can someone with more computer savvy bring up the strings , which had to be monumental, that pertained to Crean pulling Damian Saunders NLI out from under him.  Would just like to read them as a frame of reference and see how those now showing such outrage acted then.

can anyone help?

[bilsu]

I have no knowledge that Newbill broke any law. However, the argument that he did not, because he signed with another division one team has no standing. Just look at Diamond Taylor. He got in trouble at UW and left and immediately signed with another team. There are also different educational standards at different Univeristies. However, I do not think his acedemics are in question here. It just is a bad assumption that because Newbill was accepted at another Univeristy that there was no problem with him. There are two odd things about his situation. The first is the fact that his former coach/advisor was actually posting on our sight. I do not know, but I can see this as something that would have bothered Buzz and our compliance people. The other thing is the fact that Newbill never submitted his admission papers. He could not be admitted without doing this, therefore his NLI was not vailid. Buzz seems to be the type of personality that expects you to follow up on your responsibilites, so I am sure the failure to submit his paper work was a red flag to Buzz. Remember Buzz stopped recruiting Wilson, when he failed to show up for midnight madness. It turned out Wilson's volleyball game went into overtime, so he could not make it, but Buzz who had a person waiting for Wilson was upset that Wilson did not call to let the staff know he could not make it. He told Wilson he would no longer recruit him and when Buzz later change his mind and tried to recruit Wilson again he had all ready ruled MU out. I really do not think Newbill was the one that was suppose to go to prep school and that is why he did not know about it. Whoever it was that Buzz thought was going to prep school, acutally ended up qualifying. They are two different situations

[Marquette84]

So what your saying is when Buzz announced that one MU player would be going the Prep school route he violated NCAA rules?

It would really depend on the reason Buzz announced that an MU player would be going to Prep school.

A player may not qualify under NCAA guidelines and attend a prep school--not a violation
A player can decide on his own to go to prep school--not a violation
A player might not be admitted to the university--not a violation
A player may request a release from his NLI--not a violation.

However, if Buzz announced a player was going the prep route because of an additional condition on the NLI or because of some side deal with that player, it would be a violation.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not even sure how to "search" to find all of your posts on this matter(I'm old and not nearly as computer savvy as you). I also don't know if any of your posts have been  modified or edited since you first wrote them. I do know that in addition to the examples you cite you also accused Buzz of "crapping on a person's life" (It's a brief post, no real context to it, but I don't know how to link it).  I also know that in one of my posts I put "ruining a kid's life" in qoutations. I'm not one to do that unless I'm quoting directly. But in the unlikely event I was paraphrasing rather than quoting you verbatim I apologize.

I'm happy to provide a lesson.  Go up to the field to the upper right of the page next to where it says "search".  To get a more advanced search, click on the hour glass.  The easiest thing to do is just type in the word "ruin" and my name for the username.  It will come up with all the threads that I've participated in that the word "ruin" was used...doesn't mean I used it, means someone did.  When I did the search, I could not find anywhere that I said it.  I did find those two threads that I posted for you, which state that his life is affected.  I don't think you would disagree his life is affected, but I find that far different than "ruined".

I may have said it, but the search Gods don't seem to be able to find it, but if I did, I'd like to see the full context.

[ChicosBailBonds]

With only a very minor modification, I'm on board with this.  I still think it's a bit of a big deal, but not the end of the world.  But, I am glad Wilson is on board.

Honestly, I suspect Chico -- everybody's favorite supposed extremist on this topic -- would probably agree with either your or my very non-extreme statement.  I'm sure he'll let us know.

Yes, that would be my position but with one important distinction.


1) Unless the kid doesn't qualify, or has legal troubles, MU should honor it's NLI
2) In the grand scheme of things, we appear to have landed a better player, and I'm glad to have him, just try notdo NOT to do it again.

[Pakuni]

It would really depend on the reason Buzz announced that an MU player would be going to Prep school.

A player may not qualify under NCAA guidelines and attend a prep school--not a violation
A player can decide on his own to go to prep school--not a violation
A player might not be admitted to the university--not a violation
A player may request a release from his NLI--not a violation.

However, if Buzz announced a player was going the prep route because of an additional condition on the NLI or because of some side deal with that player, it would be a violation.

Cite?

[ChicosBailBonds]

can someone with more computer savvy bring up the strings , which had to be monumental, that pertained to Crean pulling Damian Saunders NLI out from under him.  Would just like to read them as a frame of reference and see how those now showing such outrage acted then.

can anyone help?

Robert, they've been provided already, in several threads related to Newbill.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I really do not think Newbill was the one that was suppose to go to prep school and that is why he did not know about it. Whoever it was that Buzz thought was going to prep school, actually ended up qualifying. They are two different situations

This theory has been presented to me by an "insider" on several occasions, that Buzz did intend to send a recruit to Prep school but that person was not Newbill which is why Newbill and his family were so caught off guard. 

I don't know if it's true.....this would also qualify as hearsay.