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Author Topic: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up  (Read 106953 times)

Brewtown Andy

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #25 on: May 07, 2010, 07:55:49 AM »
  If there is another candidate who is better qualified, give them the job.  

Considering how long A&S has been without a dean, I don't think there is anyone else.

At least they got this screwup out of their system now, instead of during the presidential search.
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PBRme

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2010, 07:56:06 AM »
What was wrong with the acting Dean.  She seemed to be well liked and if the fix was in for a woman to cap the "100 years of women at Marquette"  wouldn't she have made a much better choice?  Plus not much drama in a Chemistry professor.

Wild made the right decision as this person would have been way to big  a lightning rod.  Pay her off move on and fire the the goof admins that thought this was a good idea, though accountability in MU administration would be a rather unique occurance.
Peace, Love, and Rye Whiskey...May your life and your glass always be full

Sir Lawrence

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2010, 08:01:37 AM »
Is she the best candidate?   The only question that matters.  Take her sexuality out of the equation.   It neither gives her extra points or eliminates her, IMO.   I have had too many friends come out of the closet, worked with enough people who were openly gay and even had a closeted gay roommate, to ever care again how somebody else achieves their orgasm with another consenting adult.   So, if she is qualified and the best candidate for the job, give her the job.   If there is another candidate who is better qualified, give them the job.  

I have no problem with taking her sexual orientation out of the equation as long as she does the same thing.  Too often when achieving a position that provides a soap box, the gay agenda is broadcast. 
Ludum habemus.

NavinRJohnson

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2010, 08:02:09 AM »
Is she the best candidate?   The only question that matters.  Take her sexuality out of the equation.   It neither gives her extra points or eliminates her, IMO.   I have had too many friends come out of the closet, worked with enough people who were openly gay and even had a closeted gay roommate, to ever care again how somebody else achieves their orgasm with another consenting adult.   So, if she is qualified and the best candidate for the job, give her the job.   If there is another candidate who is better qualified, give them the job.  

Nope. MU is a private catholic institution. You are obviously free to disagree with the catholic church's position, but I think what some 'Catholics' fail to realize is that they don't really get to choose what parts of the religion you go along with with and what parts you don't. You are either Catholic or you aren't. There is no such think as a pro-gay marriage Catholic, or a pro-choice catholic, etc. I have no problem with one's sexuality. Its a really a non-issue for me, but I also don't have to sacrifice elements of my core beliefs to accommodate them. Just as they are not required to do so for me, and I have no problem with what MU is doing here. If it was a public or non-catholic school I would agree with you, but its not.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2010, 08:09:31 AM »
I have no problem with taking her sexual orientation out of the equation as long as she does the same thing.  Too often when achieving a position that provides a soap box, the gay agenda is broadcast. 

What exactly is the 'gay adgenda'?

Just wondering?  Is it equal treatment?

THOSE BASTARDS!

tower912

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #30 on: May 07, 2010, 08:12:03 AM »
Naivin, look around at the empty pews on Sunday and you will find that many have already left the church for various and sundry reasons.   Of the ones who are still in the pews, not many follow every single dictum of the church perfectly.   I recognize I am an imperfect catholic as I am far less judgemental of human frailties than some readings of the official church position calls me to be.   So, I stand by my statement and I will see you in church.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2010, 08:12:22 AM »
Cottingham should have handled the search.

NavinRJohnson

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2010, 08:14:01 AM »
What exactly is the 'gay adgenda'?

Just wondering?  Is it equal treatment?

THOSE BASTARDS!

Who cares exactly what the agenda is...is her position as a College Dean the place to promote it? The agenda itself is irrelevant. If MU is for some reason not allowed to take it into consideration, then neither is anyone else.

Blackhat

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2010, 08:16:10 AM »
Cottingham should have handled the search.

I know you're being sarcastic but Cottingham is a very competent man.   We could do much worse than him picking our members of the university given guidelines and the time to research.  In fact we probably do.  
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 08:23:22 AM by Stone Cold »

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2010, 08:16:51 AM »
What I don't quite get is this from the JS article:

Quote
.. faculty members forwarded two candidates to Marquette President Father Robert A. Wild and Provost John Pauly. In their recommendation, committee members warned Wild and Pauly not to pick O'Brien if the university was not willing to support her if her sexual orientation or if her scholarship were criticized, Franzoi said.

There's been a lot of chat about the search not being up to snuff.  Seems like they forwarded two candidates to Wild and Pauly.  I assume both (or at least Wild) had to sign off .. as the article states, they had been warned "not to pick .. if .. not willing to support her if her sexual orientation.."

It's not like they didn't know who she was.  If this article is correct, and Fr. Wild did receive two candidates, and a warning about one of them, and approved .. then rescinded that approval .. the blame lies completely on Fr. Wild.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2010, 08:21:57 AM »
Who cares exactly what the agenda is...is her position as a College Dean the place to promote it? The agenda itself is irrelevant. If MU is for some reason not allowed to take it into consideration, then neither is anyone else.

I wasn't aware that she would be given a podium to promote her feelings about being gay.

Was that in her job description?

Nope?  Okay then, carry on.

NavinRJohnson

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2010, 08:23:12 AM »
What I don't quite get is this from the JS article:
If this article is correct, and Fr. Wild did receive two candidates, and a warning about one of them, and approved .. then rescinded that approval .. the blame lies completely on Fr. Wild.

Considering the source, both the paper it appeared in, as well as the individual who made the comment...I guess I am a bit skeptical as to the accuracy of that account.

tower912

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2010, 08:26:08 AM »
I wondered about that, too, Hilltopper.   If two acceptable names were forwarded, but a warning was attached to this candidate accurately predicting this uproar if the situation was handled less than perfectly,  then the higher ups who made this decision and then abandoned it should take the hit.   It looks like it was Fr. Wild, but he is a lame duck anyway.  
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

LA

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2010, 08:58:43 AM »
My father in law is a history professor and was on the search committee. To suggest that the committee didn't do sufficient research on the candidates is false. Both Wild and Pauly had everything they needed on both candidates, both met and interviewed O'Brien and liked her.

Wild then just recently called them together to go off on them for recommending someone so against the universities teachings. The blame lies completely on Father Wild and I'm guessing it was pressure from donors that led to his change of heart. She was 100% qualified and not hired because she is an open lesbian. That is simply not right.

LA

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2010, 09:03:36 AM »
Navin, the Catholic church also asserts that anyone who knows of the Catholic church and christian faith but does not convert is going to hell. Does that mean that MU can't hire anyone who is Jewish, Islam, Hindu, etc?

MUfan12

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2010, 09:19:26 AM »
She was 100% qualified and not hired because she is an open lesbian. That is simply not right.

This is where I could not disagree with you more. Her CV is incredibly mediocre.

It's not like she was a lesbian biologist who has solely written on biology. Her published works range from blatant gay activism to something you'd see in Cosmo. She had a complete lack of administrative experience. This isn't hiring a professor, this is the dean of the largest college in the University.

GGGG

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2010, 09:21:43 AM »
Nope. MU is a private catholic institution. You are obviously free to disagree with the catholic church's position, but I think what some 'Catholics' fail to realize is that they don't really get to choose what parts of the religion you go along with with and what parts you don't. You are either Catholic or you aren't. There is no such think as a pro-gay marriage Catholic, or a pro-choice catholic, etc. I have no problem with one's sexuality. Its a really a non-issue for me, but I also don't have to sacrifice elements of my core beliefs to accommodate them. Just as they are not required to do so for me, and I have no problem with what MU is doing here. If it was a public or non-catholic school I would agree with you, but its not.


Marquette's own non-discrimination policy includes non-discrimination for "sexual orientation."  Obviously MU doesn't have a problem hiring openly gay professors and administrators.  They have done so in the past.

http://www.marquette.edu/tools/non-discrimination.shtml

Lennys Tap

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2010, 09:26:31 AM »
Navin, the Catholic church also asserts that anyone who knows of the Catholic church and christian faith but does not convert is going to hell. Does that mean that MU can't hire anyone who is Jewish, Islam, Hindu, etc?

In what universe does the Catholic Church teach this?

MerrittsMustache

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2010, 09:27:54 AM »
Nope. MU is a private catholic institution. You are obviously free to disagree with the catholic church's position, but I think what some 'Catholics' fail to realize is that they don't really get to choose what parts of the religion you go along with with and what parts you don't. You are either Catholic or you aren't. There is no such think as a pro-gay marriage Catholic, or a pro-choice catholic, etc. I have no problem with one's sexuality. Its a really a non-issue for me, but I also don't have to sacrifice elements of my core beliefs to accommodate them. Just as they are not required to do so for me, and I have no problem with what MU is doing here. If it was a public or non-catholic school I would agree with you, but its not.

+1000000

They should have locked the thread after this post because nothing more needed to be said.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2010, 09:33:19 AM »
Except that their published policy, in writing, states exactly the opposite.

oops?

The world has enough bigots.

What ever happened to teaching the ways and values that Jesus Christ taught, and not the ways of some moron in a white hat and his buddies?

LA

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2010, 09:35:37 AM »
This is where I could not disagree with you more. Her CV is incredibly mediocre.

It's not like she was a lesbian biologist who has solely written on biology. Her published works range from blatant gay activism to something you'd see in Cosmo. She had a complete lack of administrative experience. This isn't hiring a professor, this is the dean of the largest college in the University.

I actually haven't read her CV and am just going off of what I was told by someone involved in the process.

I wonder though if she was so woefully under qualified why she was offered in the first place?

Lennys Tap

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2010, 09:39:27 AM »
4never is a fatnuglyophile.   ;D  also is a hairylegnmustaceonabulldoglookinwomanophile.

funniest post of the year

CrazyEcho

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2010, 09:40:24 AM »
My father in law is a history professor and was on the search committee. To suggest that the committee didn't do sufficient research on the candidates is false. Both Wild and Pauly had everything they needed on both candidates, both met and interviewed O'Brien and liked her.

Wild then just recently called them together to go off on them for recommending someone so against the universities teachings. The blame lies completely on Father Wild and I'm guessing it was pressure from donors that led to his change of heart. She was 100% qualified and not hired because she is an open lesbian. That is simply not right.

To be fair, we have plenty of lesbian faculty (see e.g., Nancy Snow).  Her offer was rescinded because of her scholarship.  In theory, if it was a straight, white, man who wrote the same things, his offer would have been rescinded as well.  

d6

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #48 on: May 07, 2010, 09:41:57 AM »
Catholics can't pick and choose which parts to agree with. Really?  Well, then raise your hand if you've never had premarital sex, used birth control, and/or had sex for means other than procreation.  I think we pick and choose all the time.....

MUfan12

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Re: Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up
« Reply #49 on: May 07, 2010, 09:44:11 AM »
I wonder though if she was so woefully under qualified why she was offered in the first place?

I'd bet it was because she is a lesbian, and it was a stab at creating more "diversity."

As was said earlier, this decision was not about how she has an orgasm. But her published works, including a couple of them, were in direct conflict with the church. MU has shown in the past that it is alright with that from professors (see Maguire, Daniel) but we're talking about a Dean. They still have some obligations as a Catholic school.