Marquette Arts and Sciences dean search F-up

[DJO's Pump Fake]

why is that exactly?

She is not even close to being qualified to lead a Catholic Jesuit Institution's largest college.  She should have applied to UW or UWM if she wanted to bring gay and lesbian teachings to the classroom.  No room for it at MU

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Another angle to consider on this-

Would there have been more uproar had she been officially hired, and all this information came to light?

I haven't figured that one out yet.

Great question MUFAN12

I think there would be more uproar if she was officially hired and then this came out.  At least MU can say they caught it in time and didn't allow this person to be employed, although they were scary close.

[StillAWarrior]

She is not even close to being qualified to lead a Catholic Jesuit Institution's largest college.  She should have applied to UW or UWM if she wanted to bring gay and lesbian teachings to the classroom.  No room for it at MU

I'll admit that I have no idea what the CV of a qualified dean would look like.  I've never hired a dean or been involved in hiring a dean.  I'm absolutely not saying that you're wrong...I have no idea. What would the CV of a qualified candidate look like?

[shiloh26]

Another angle to consider on this-

Would there have been more uproar had she been officially hired, and all this information came to light?

I haven't figured that one out yet.

What information 'came to light?'  It was all right there on her CV.  If by 'come to light' you mean 'read her work', I contend that that should have been done prior to extending a job offer.  

[MUfan12]

What information 'came to light?'  It was all right there on her CV.  If by 'come to light' you mean 'read her work', I contend that that should have been done prior to extending a job offer.  

I'm aware of that. But it seems no one outside the search committee knew her or her work. That certainly would have come out after the hiring.

[Hards Alumni]

She is not even close to being qualified to lead a Catholic Jesuit Institution's largest college.  She should have applied to UW or UWM if she wanted to bring gay and lesbian teachings to the classroom.  No room for it at MU

Why isn't she qualified, exactly?

I don't believe she ever said that she wanted to bring gay and lesbian teachings to the classroom, did she?

[shiloh26]

I'm aware of that. But it seems no one outside the search committee knew her or her work. That certainly would have come out after the hiring.

I believe there are several links on this page that prove that her CV was public material.  Anyone who cared about following the candidates and the hiring process were free to check them out.  

[LA]

I'm aware of that. But it seems no one outside the search committee knew her or her work. That certainly would have come out after the hiring.

Except the president of the university...

[MUfan12]

I believe there are several links on this page that prove that her CV was public material.  Anyone who cared about following the candidates and the hiring process were free to check them out.  

I guess I'm not seeing what your argument is.... or if you're just being argumentative.

I don't think the question I asked was out of bounds at all.

[Toodles1980]

She is not even close to being qualified to lead a Catholic Jesuit Institution's largest college.  She should have applied to UW or UWM if she wanted to bring gay and lesbian teachings to the classroom.  No room for it at MU

How many gay and lesbians do you think are on as faculty at Marquette? I will promise you the faculty has much more say on advancing the so called "gay agenda" than a dean does. Look, either way you look at this Marquette screwed up. Either they ignored their own non-discrimination policy and didn't hire a lesbian because of her sexual orientation, or the administration approved a candidate they didn't vet. There is no positive spin on this for Marquette.

Lemme address all these in one:

Have I read the CV? more than you'd assume and more than just her titles. I have read some of them that I had access to via Google Reader and Google Scholar. Now, I don't totally object to her writings if she was going to be hired as Phil/Sociology professor. Thorough analysis of phone sex is Not my cup of tea, or however you want to say it  But MU was going to select this person as the Dean of the Largest College. I echo MUFan. And I still struggle to believe that some professors in the college would be able to accept/respect a dean with that CV.

Her writings that were very much against the Catholic Church's teachings and advocated gay marriage should have disqualified her much earlier in the search (regardless of personal opinions)

Other than a few crotchety tenured professors (who are beyond any control of the dean regardless) I think after the outpouring of support shown by faculty yesterday, the dean who Marquette actually hires in this process will have a lot less respect than Dr. O'Brien would have among the younger tenured and non-tenured faculty. Let's just say faculty isn't impressed when administration overrides them, especially when the administration first signs off on a decision, then changes their mind and dumps the blame on faculty. The next dean is going to have a heck of a hill to climb.

[tower912]

Precisely.   MU messed up big-time.   If the rumors are true that Fr. Wild caved to the threat of a big donor, it makes MU look bad.   If this all happened despite the warning of the vetting committe that it WOULD happen unless handled perfectly, it makes MU look bad.   If MU was hiring her simpy BECAUSE she is a lesbian, it makes MU look bad.   If MU is now rescinding for the same reason despite it's own stated practices.....you get the idea.    Back to my original statement.   If she is the best candidate, hire her.   If she isn't, either hire the other guy or restart the process.   There are no easy, graceful exits at this point. 

[shiloh26]

I guess I'm not seeing what your argument is.... or if you're just being argumentative.

I don't think the question I asked was out of bounds at all.

I don't mean to be argumentative, I'm just wondering what you mean by saying that this would have 'come to light.'  That she was a lesbian?  That she wrote some pieces about being a lesbian?  That was pretty apparent from her CV, which was already in the light.  If all you mean is that the public would have been upset that MU hired a lesbian as a dean, than as Toodles said, the Arts and Sciences faculty has gay and lesbian members already.  I doubt it would have been a big deal at all.  The problem with this whole thing is that they offered her a job, and then rescinded it, and as people have said, any of the possible explanations do not cast MU in a very good light.

[MUMBA]

Regardless of what you think of the titles or subject matter, her articles were published in peer reviewed journals.  Competitive journal have acceptance rates of say 10%-20%.  It's a rigorous process that involves blind reviews, revisions, re-submissions, and rejections (more often than not).  I don't have the academic credentials or experience to evaluate her work objectively, but I am a reasonable person.  I think its fair to assume that her publications went through an intellectual gauntlet before seeing print.

[MUeagle05]

Let's just say faculty isn't impressed when administration overrides them, especially when the administration first signs off on a decision, then changes their mind and dumps the blame on faculty.

Why would the administration care if the faculty is impressed?  And isn't the administration in charge here?  There is no overriding of the faculty.  I can't imagine standing up in a room full of people and attempting to shame or embarrass  my boss into doing something like Snow did to Wild (even if Wild did screw up the process by hiring and then rescinding).

[MUfan12]

I don't mean to be argumentative, I'm just wondering what you mean by saying that this would have 'come to light.' 

Fair enough. I'll ask you this, how many people knew about her, or her work 24 hours ago? That info was always out there, but until something happened (in this case the rescinded offer) there was no reason to look into it for many of us.

Basically, it took an event to make people look/read into her background further. My question is, what if that event had been the announcement of her hiring, instead of the rescinded offer? How, if at all, would the reactions have been different?

[shiloh26]

Fair enough. I'll ask you this, how many people knew about her, or her work 24 hours ago? That info was always out there, but until something happened (in this case the rescinded offer) there was no reason to look into it for many of us.

Basically, it took an event to make people look/read into her background further. My question is, what if that event had been the announcement of her hiring, instead of the rescinded offer? How, if at all, would the reactions have been different?

Well, considering the vast majority of the posts on this thread are concerned with the improper offer/rescinding, I doubt the attention would have even approached these levels.  No doubt Prof. McAdams would have been in a tizzy about it, but I don't think we'd be talking about it here for 4 pages and counting...

I think most of the research people are putting into her work now has to do with the fact that the university cited it for their reasons for rescinding the job offer.  If they had never rescinded the offer, I doubt very much we'd be looking at it.  That's my opinion. 

[Henry Sugar]

For years, I have had the notion that Marquette has structural problems with making big decisions.  Avenue Commons, the Nickname, and then the Nickname (again), the Provost before last, and the Buzz hiring process.

Hooray Confirmation Bias.

[MUMBA]

Father Wild had full visibility to (a) her publishing record, and (b) the heat that would come along with the hire.  As mentioned in a previous post, he was advised not to proceed unless he had the strength, courage, and conviction to stand by the decision to make the hire.  This is consistent with my conversations with people close to the University.  So it's not as if some 'skeletons from the closet' came into view for the first time after the offer was made.  

So if he had full view of the facts...what pattern of events transpired causing the offer to be rescinded?  Who applied the pressure to rescind?  It must have been intense for Fr. Wild to do a 180.

People left the dinner last night scratching their heads.

[Toodles1980]

Why would the administration care if the faculty is impressed?  And isn't the administration in charge here?  There is no overriding of the faculty.  I can't imagine standing up in a room full of people and attempting to shame or embarrass  my boss into doing something like Snow did to Wild (even if Wild did screw up the process by hiring and then rescinding).

Because, quite frankly, the faculty don't see administration as their boss, especially tenured professors. Ask almost any professor and they view themselves as having more of a symbiotic relationship with a university, as opposed to an employer, employee relationship. The general feel is, they can't exist without the university, but the university can't exist without them. Do you really think John McAdams would get away with his blog, and the constant ripping on administration if universities had a traditional boss/employee hierarchy found in most of the business world? Same goes for Dr. Macguire and his views on the Catholic Church and it's positions. Also, make no mistake, this is the administration overriding a decision they charged the search committee (largely made up of faculty) with, for reasons not agreeable to the search committee. As to why the university should care. Well if they hope to bring it top notch instructors and retain current talent, having a dean respected by faculty is very important. 

[mu_hilltopper]

For years, I have had the notion that Marquette has structural problems with making big decisions.  Avenue Commons, the Nickname, and then the Nickname (again), the Provost before last, and the Buzz hiring process.

Hooray Confirmation Bias.

I was thinking the same thing, Sugar.   

Although .. perhaps their decision was the right one, but didn't factor in something that just wouldn't, or shouldn't come up, namely, a rich donor appears and throws-down.

They may have done 49 things right here.

If the "big donor theory" is correct .. clearly THAT is the most disturbing feature of this story.

[MUMBA]

Why would the administration care if the faculty is impressed?  And isn't the administration in charge here?  There is no overriding of the faculty.  I can't imagine standing up in a room full of people and attempting to shame or embarrass  my boss into doing something like Snow did to Wild (even if Wild did screw up the process by hiring and then rescinding).

Let's clarify a few things about Nancy and Father Wild.

1st, Nancy has won teaching awards, earned research grants, and has advanced the University's research profile with her publications.  She could lock up a high profile job at another University tomorrow, but she's dedicated to her Alma Mater.  Marquette grads are going into a complex world where they'll work and live alongside people of different races, religions, and sexual orientations.  It's best for cradle catholics like me to have our comfort zones pushed in the safety of a classroom.  In that respect, Nancy has served Marquette extraordinarily well.

2nd, Fr Wild was the Chaplain of Nancy's dorm when she was a freshman in 1978.  They have known one another for a long time, and there is mutual respect.  Both Nancy and Fr Wild acknowledged that in their speeches last night.

3rd, Nancy engaged Fr Wild in an dialogue prior the dinner last night, but there was not a satisfactory answer as to why the University made an about-face.  There were no sneak attacks last night.

4th, In the absence of a satisfactory answer, Nancy is left to believe that the offer was rescinded on the basis of sexual oreintation.  In her own words, "that cuts to the bone."  If someone were to insinuate that I was morally corrupt or defective, I'd have a heard time being as calm as she was last night.

[MUeagle05]

Let's clarify a few things about Nancy and Father Wild.

1st, Nancy has won teaching awards, earned research grants, and has advanced the University's research profile with her publications. She could lock up a high profile job at another University tomorrow, but she's dedicated to her Alma Mater.  Marquette grads are going into a complex world where they'll work and live alongside people of different races, religions, and sexual orientations.  It's best for cradle catholics like me to have our comfort zones pushed in the safety of a classroom.  In that respect, Nancy has served Marquette extraordinarily well.

2nd, Fr Wild was the Chaplain of Nancy's dorm when she was a freshman in 1978.  They have known one another for a long time, and there is mutual respect.  Both Nancy and Fr Wild acknowledged that in their speeches last night.

3rd, Nancy engaged Fr Wild in an dialogue prior the dinner last night, but there was not a satisfactory answer as to why the University made an about-face.  There were no sneak attacks last night.

4th, In the absence of a satisfactory answer, Nancy is left to believe that the offer was rescinded on the basis of sexual oreintation.  In her own words, "that cuts to the bone."  If someone were to insinuate that I was morally corrupt or defective, I'd have a heard time being as calm as she was last night.

I honestly don't think the relationship between Snow and Wild is relevant.  Going public (through faculty emails, releases to news media, satements made during the dinner) in an attempt attempt to pressure and embarrass Wild was out of line in my opinion.

And if Snow is as well-respected as you claim she is, if she has a problem with how MU is run she should take one of those other jobs. 

You wouldn't expect a predominantly black university to hire a professor who is a KKK member.  You wouldn't expect a Lutheran university to hire a professor who openly speaks negatively of Martin Luther.  Why should you expect a Catholic university to hire a woman who promotes activities that are inconsistent with Catholic teaching?

[SacWarrior]

Did they ask her to spend a year in prep school?

This was the greatest thing to come out of this thread, and subsequently the entire situation

[Hards Alumni]

I honestly don't think the relationship between Snow and Wild is relevant.  Going public (through faculty emails, releases to news media, satements made during the dinner) in an attempt attempt to pressure and embarrass Wild was out of line in my opinion.

And if Snow is as well-respected as you claim she is, if she has a problem with how MU is run she should take one of those other jobs.  

You wouldn't expect a predominantly black university to hire a professor who is a KKK member.  You wouldn't expect a Lutheran university to hire a professor who openly speaks negatively of Martin Luther.  Why should you expect a Catholic university to hire a woman who promotes activities that are inconsistent with Catholic teaching?

I was waiting for the hyperbole to show up in this discussion.

Do you really believe your examples are even remotely analogous?

[shiloh26]

I honestly don't think the relationship between Snow and Wild is relevant.  Going public (through faculty emails, releases to news media, satements made during the dinner) in an attempt attempt to pressure and embarrass Wild was out of line in my opinion.

And if Snow is as well-respected as you claim she is, if she has a problem with how MU is run she should take one of those other jobs. 

You wouldn't expect a predominantly black university to hire a professor who is a KKK member.  You wouldn't expect a Lutheran university to hire a professor who openly speaks negatively of Martin Luther.  Why should you expect a Catholic university to hire a woman who promotes activities that are inconsistent with Catholic teaching?

If MU only hired people who promotes activities that are totally consistent with Catholic teaching, then only priests would be professors.  Good luck finding any professors for the University if we are to do this kind of job search.  This notion is utterly ridiculous if you consider Marquette as a legitimate institution of higher learning, and not just a theology school.  

Are you comparing virulent racism to being a lesbian?  I'd say one of those things ought to be considered in the hiring process (at any University), and the other should not, especially given the University's anti-discrimination policy, but hey, maybe that's just me.....

Just to flip the coin, Professor McAdams, who has a position similar to yours on this issue, is strongly in favor of the death penalty.  Under your conception, I suppose the administration would have to fire him.  Catholic teaching disagrees with him...