Just a poll, not a b*^%$ fight

[ErickJD08]

Just something that crossed my mind with the Indiana Purdue game.  The Indiana team very much resembles Marquette of the past.  A team that struggles with half court sets.  A team that depends on alot of one on one play.  A team that seems to always allow too many open threes.  A team that doesn't get blown out too often and gives a ton of effort. 

Personally, I enjoy watching Buzz's brand of basketball.  When Crean left, I was concerned that there would be a drop in effort because Crean always got his players to leave it all on the court, but Buzz's team is playing with tons of heart (although part of me wonders if credit should be given to Buzz or the team leaders).

I also remember recently a IU buddy saying, "I bet you wish you had Crean back." and I gave a flat "No, you can keep him."  So I post this poll to see what some fellow MU alums felt.  Please... this is not to start some fight, I just want to get an idea of what you guys think about the idea of getting Crean back.

[rocky_warrior]

No brainier.  Buzz got more out of Crean's players than Crean (see: Matthews).  Plus, his recruiting (to get kids to Marquette) seems a lot better to me -at this point.

Plus, I think Buzz reads the message boards   If Crean had done that, we could have helped him out a lot 

[tower912]

I liked what Crean did for MU.    I liked having our games on TV, our name out there in all the media outlets.   I never met the man, so I have no response to all of the posters who didn't like him personally.   I thought he had flaws as a coach and  recruiter, but overall, he did good work at MU.   He left for what, in his mind, is the pinnacle of college basketball.   He isn't the first to leave for what he thought was a better job, he certainly won't be the last.     
      Watching Buzz, I think Crean had peaked at MU.   He wasn't taking us back to a final four any time soon.    I see a different energy from the team.   I see a different energy from the recruiting.    Maybe it is just like buying a new driver and for a month everything goes longer and straighter before your swing flaws come back.   But right now, it just feels like Buzz has a higher ceiling.     It looks like he is going to get a team with 13 high major players.   Maybe not quite next year, but he is getting there.     So, no ill will toward Crean, but I will take Buzz.      And BTW, it is coming up on Lent and two years since he left.   Maybe some people could give up on the hatred for lent.   

[mugrad99]

  A team that doesn't get blown out too often and gives a ton of effort. 

6 of IU's losses this year are by double digits, including 3 by 20 or more.

The effort thing bugs me. That's something losing coaches say. When I watch this IU team play, I think of the old saying "Be quick, but don't hurry". Crean's teams at IU do not follow that adage. They hurry too much and make too many costly mistakes.


That being said, I have no ill will towards Crean, and wish him the best. I am happy with Buzz.

[4everwarriors]

I'm on the fence with this one.

[avid1010]

I was happy with MU's progression and what TC was doing for MU, there were always questions swirling about his true colors, and he showed those colors when he left in the manner he did.  I'd rather not have someone like that for a coach at MU.

[radome]

I liked what Crean did for MU.    I liked having our games on TV, our name out there in all the media outlets.   I never met the man, so I have no response to all of the posters who didn't like him personally.   I thought he had flaws as a coach and  recruiter, but overall, he did good work at MU.   He left for what, in his mind, is the pinnacle of college basketball.   He isn't the first to leave for what he thought was a better job, he certainly won't be the last.     
      Watching Buzz, I think Crean had peaked at MU.   He wasn't taking us back to a final four any time soon.    I see a different energy from the team.   I see a different energy from the recruiting.    Maybe it is just like buying a new driver and for a month everything goes longer and straighter before your swing flaws come back.   But right now, it just feels like Buzz has a higher ceiling.     It looks like he is going to get a team with 13 high major players.   Maybe not quite next year, but he is getting there.     So, no ill will toward Crean, but I will take Buzz.      And BTW, it is coming up on Lent and two years since he left.   Maybe some people could give up on the hatred for lent.   

Tower, I think that you said it perfectly.  I was sad to see Crean go, but so far, it has turned out better.  Most importantly though, Buzz' personality, view of life, treatment of players, statements about the university (whatever you think of his Ivy League statement) etc. seem to align with the Marquette mission quite well.  Gotta love his recruiting at this point too.

[connie]

I liked what Crean did for MU.    I liked having our games on TV, our name out there in all the media outlets.   I never met the man, so I have no response to all of the posters who didn't like him personally.   I thought he had flaws as a coach and  recruiter, but overall, he did good work at MU.   He left for what, in his mind, is the pinnacle of college basketball.   He isn't the first to leave for what he thought was a better job, he certainly won't be the last.     
      Watching Buzz, I think Crean had peaked at MU.   He wasn't taking us back to a final four any time soon.    I see a different energy from the team.   I see a different energy from the recruiting.    Maybe it is just like buying a new driver and for a month everything goes longer and straighter before your swing flaws come back.   But right now, it just feels like Buzz has a higher ceiling.     It looks like he is going to get a team with 13 high major players.   Maybe not quite next year, but he is getting there.     So, no ill will toward Crean, but I will take Buzz.      And BTW, it is coming up on Lent and two years since he left.   Maybe some people could give up on the hatred for lent.   

AWESOME post---agree in every respect (except maybe the lack of a good natured  "tan" shot).

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I liked what Crean did for MU.    I liked having our games on TV, our name out there in all the media outlets.   I never met the man, so I have no response to all of the posters who didn't like him personally.   I thought he had flaws as a coach and  recruiter, but overall, he did good work at MU.   He left for what, in his mind, is the pinnacle of college basketball.   He isn't the first to leave for what he thought was a better job, he certainly won't be the last.     
      Watching Buzz, I think Crean had peaked at MU.   He wasn't taking us back to a final four any time soon.    I see a different energy from the team.   I see a different energy from the recruiting.    Maybe it is just like buying a new driver and for a month everything goes longer and straighter before your swing flaws come back.   But right now, it just feels like Buzz has a higher ceiling.     It looks like he is going to get a team with 13 high major players.   Maybe not quite next year, but he is getting there.     So, no ill will toward Crean, but I will take Buzz.      And BTW, it is coming up on Lent and two years since he left.   Maybe some people could give up on the hatred for lent.   

Well said. I feel the exact same way.

So far, I really like Buzz, so I wouldn't trade back.

[GGGG]

I liked what Crean did for MU.    I liked having our games on TV, our name out there in all the media outlets.   I never met the man, so I have no response to all of the posters who didn't like him personally.   I thought he had flaws as a coach and  recruiter, but overall, he did good work at MU.   He left for what, in his mind, is the pinnacle of college basketball.   He isn't the first to leave for what he thought was a better job, he certainly won't be the last.     
      Watching Buzz, I think Crean had peaked at MU.   He wasn't taking us back to a final four any time soon.    I see a different energy from the team.   I see a different energy from the recruiting.    Maybe it is just like buying a new driver and for a month everything goes longer and straighter before your swing flaws come back.   But right now, it just feels like Buzz has a higher ceiling.     It looks like he is going to get a team with 13 high major players.   Maybe not quite next year, but he is getting there.     So, no ill will toward Crean, but I will take Buzz.      And BTW, it is coming up on Lent and two years since he left.   Maybe some people could give up on the hatred for lent.   

+1.  Perfectly stated.  And you are right...time to move on and leave him behind.

[The Lens]

I liked what Crean did for MU.    I liked having our games on TV, our name out there in all the media outlets.   I never met the man, so I have no response to all of the posters who didn't like him personally.   I thought he had flaws as a coach and  recruiter, but overall, he did good work at MU.   He left for what, in his mind, is the pinnacle of college basketball.   He isn't the first to leave for what he thought was a better job, he certainly won't be the last.     
      Watching Buzz, I think Crean had peaked at MU.   He wasn't taking us back to a final four any time soon.    I see a different energy from the team.   I see a different energy from the recruiting.    Maybe it is just like buying a new driver and for a month everything goes longer and straighter before your swing flaws come back.   But right now, it just feels like Buzz has a higher ceiling.     It looks like he is going to get a team with 13 high major players.   Maybe not quite next year, but he is getting there.     So, no ill will toward Crean, but I will take Buzz.      And BTW, it is coming up on Lent and two years since he left.   Maybe some people could give up on the hatred for lent.   

+1

[Benny B]

With 78 votes thus far, only 3 to Crean.  My opinion is that this is indicative of the entire MU fan base, not just those passionate fans who post to message boards.

However, if you conducted this poll this past summer, I would bet it would be closer to 60-40 in favor of Buzz, at best.  And it would have been an unfair assessment.   The impression I get amongst regular fans and alums I talk to is that people weren't so upset that we lost our coach as they were dismayed that our former coach implied that MU was simply a stepping stone upon his departure by uttering a single phrase: "It's Indiana... it's Indiana."  Those four words did more damage to the psyches of MU alumni since the travesty of 1994.  Those who may have wanted TC back likely wanted him back for the sake of pride, not for the sake of basketball.

Time heals all wounds, and the fact that Tom Crean has not enjoyed much success at IU speaks volumes about how good we have it here with Buzz.  Those who viewed TC's departure as a snub to the University are now seeing it as an opportunity for a better future.  While still too early in Buzz's career to make a proper assessment, the early returns are very encouraging.  Buzz also says the right things about wanting to be at Marquette (even if some think he isn't being genuine) and respecting its tradition (e.g. the blue sport coat) and that sits well with the the proud MU fan base.

Marquette has a very proud tradition both as an institution and in its basketball program.  Very few schools can match what we have enjoyed over the past 100 years.  Out of 347 D-I schools today, perhaps 340 wish they had a figure like Al McGuire in their past.  Nearly 300 wish they had the championship hardware in their trophy case.  Every game we see a season ticket holder march to center court because they've shown a commitment to MU hoops since the 60's or 70's.  To disrespect that pride will cause harsh feelings, mostly irrational, towards the easiest figure to blame.  But I am glad that those feelings towards TC are finally starting to fade (mostly) and that Buzz is being given his due.

Today, I hope and pray that in Buzz's last game at MU, he breaks down in tears of joy with just a few seconds left in the basketball season and retires the next day.  Unfortunately, that may not become the reality, so I'm simply going to enjoy the ride as long as I can.

[spiral97]

Plus, I think Buzz reads the message boards

Hi Buzz!!!

[mileskishnish72]

Plus, I think Buzz reads the message boards

If so, maybe some sartorial advice - pick outfits that won't show the sweat coming through.  

[MU111]

Plus, I think Buzz reads the message boards

If so, maybe some sartorial advice - pick outfits that won't show the sweat coming through.  

With the great job that Buzz is doing and will likely continue to do, he can rock the sweat-soaked shirts during games all he wants.

On a more serious note, I agree with Tower that Crean did great things for MU but his teams were just starting to show a different energy.  With Buzz, it feels like we're never out of the game, despite the score.  No one dials down the intensity until the buzzer and I think that energy is reflective of our coach.  The recruiting so far is great and I like the in-game coaching.  So, while I was initially disappointed by Crean's departure, it could end up being the best thing that could have happened (ie, we got Buzz).

[thanooj]

I agree curler.  TCs teams played tight.  Even with the three amigos at their best the team was tense, afraid to make mistakes.  awkward offensively.  they wanted to do it RIGHT.  In TCs defense, as it has been stated previously, his teams played hard.  But they were tight.

Buzz's teams are different.  They seem to embody the underdog workmanlike approach of their coach.  They seem to be less tense.  Their problems at the stripe became a hurdle to overcome, but they sure play with heart and passion.

[MR.HAYWARD]

I agree curler.  TCs teams played tight.  Even with the three amigos at their best the team was tense, afraid to make mistakes.  awkward offensively.  they wanted to do it RIGHT.  In TCs defense, as it has been stated previously, his teams played hard.  But they were tight.

Buzz's teams are different.  They seem to embody the underdog workmanlike approach of their coach.  They seem to be less tense.  Their problems at the stripe became a hurdle to overcome, but they sure play with heart and passion.

a team takes on the personality of it's leader.... a nuerotic maniacal tense personality coach cuases for players to play that way. 

I will never forget the last second win Mu had over Loserville when dameon Mason was afreshman.  After the game they asked Dameon ( i was in the media room) if the play was designed to go to him.  He said and someone might find the article but this shoule be pretty verbatim.... " coach called a play in the huddle, but when we walked back on the floor he was yelling for us to run a different play, it was loud and no one knew what to do so i just made a cut and was opened and made a shot" 

Crean over coached and having never played never realized that players play and only egotistically coaches think they are a bigger part of the game than the players are.  a good coach knows to call a play and the results depend on the players ability to execute and a overthinking maniacal coach can be a detriment when he puts too much pressure and confusion upon his players.

another good example of Crean being a terrible coach..i was there for that one too. is when we we blowing ND out early and Crean went ape crap on the sidelines caused a stoppage of the game and completly turned the tide of the game and ND stormed back and beat our fannies.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

I expected Crean to leave the following year, either way 10 years (9 in this case) is a long time.  People become agitated, the honeymoon ends, etc.  Just like it will with Buzz.  It's human nature.

Despite the fantasyland predictions by some here, Crean is well liked at IU by the administration and they are happy with what he is doing.  Key is Fred Glass and he's 100% on board.

I'm very happy with Buzz....glad Crean hired him.  So far, he's done a great job.   


Both had significantly different jobs at MU.  Crean had to get us from a program that had 1 Sweet 16 in 25 years to a power program...he did that.  Buzz was hired to keep things together, so far he has done that.

Totally different jobs.

[gumbyandpokey]

Mike Deane was a far better game coach than either Crean or Buzz.

And what have Buzz's teams done better in close, late-game situations than Crean's?  Nothing, imo.

I'll never understand the Buzz worship here.  The team flopped again the NCAA's last season with a late game choke and we'll see what happens the rest of this year.  I'm not defending Crean, either.  He was (literally) one of the biggest jerks on the planet and there could be an incredible thread of Crean stories (I've got a few doozies from someone who worked with him) that would make the biggest Crean haters gasp.  But he did take his team to a final four, even if they got the living crap beat out of them by Kansas once they got there.

I guess I'd vote for Crean, since I can't see one of Buzz's teams ever getting to the final four.

[StillAWarrior]

Both had significantly different jobs at MU.  Crean had to get us from a program that had 1 Sweet 16 in 25 years to a power program...he did that.  Buzz was hired to keep things together, so far he has done that.

Totally different jobs.

I think this is true.  An interesting debate is which job is harder.  I think Buzz's job probably will be harder.

I think Crean did very well for the program and helped get us back on the map.  It certainly wasn't an easy job, but it was made substantially easier because the university made a commitment to the program and opened the checkbook (and alumni also opened the checkbook).  I think Crean gets some credit for making these things happen, but if Wilde hadn't made the commitment, Crean would have failed (and if he doesn't renew it, Buzz will fail).

I think we've moved to another level where just spending more money won't make the program better.  We've got the facilities and the budget.  Now we need to make incremental improvements that will require a talented coach (in all aspects of the job - coaching, recruiting, hiring, scheduling, etc.).  Besides, it's always easier to get to the "top" (relatively speaking) than it is to stay there.

[radome]

Mike Deane was a far better game coach than either Crean or Buzz.

Is this accepted as fact?  Asking the question, not trying to lay a landmine.  I don't know.  Regardless (or is it irregardless ), I think recruiting is still the most important part of CBB and so far, pretty good for Buzz.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

a team takes on the personality of it's leader.... a nuerotic maniacal tense personality coach cuases for players to play that way. 

I will never forget the last second win Mu had over Loserville when dameon Mason was afreshman.  After the game they asked Dameon ( i was in the media room) if the play was designed to go to him.  He said and someone might find the article but this shoule be pretty verbatim.... " coach called a play in the huddle, but when we walked back on the floor he was yelling for us to run a different play, it was loud and no one knew what to do so i just made a cut and was opened and made a shot" 

Crean over coached and having never played never realized that players play and only egotistically coaches think they are a bigger part of the game than the players are.  a good coach knows to call a play and the results depend on the players ability to execute and a overthinking maniacal coach can be a detriment when he puts too much pressure and confusion upon his players.

another good example of Crean being a terrible coach..i was there for that one too. is when we we blowing ND out early and Crean went ape crap on the sidelines caused a stoppage of the game and completly turned the tide of the game and ND stormed back and beat our fannies.   

It's just a poll, not a B*^%$ fight.

[Lennys Tap]

I made my first post on this site about a year ago. My basic premise was that while I thanked TC for what he did for MU I thought Buzz was far superior at coaching those players TC had left behind than Crean had been. One year later I'm even more convinced Buzz is a better coach. And a better recruiter. And an infinitely better representative of the values Marquette espouses.

[jaygall31]

my stomach just churned when I read the first post..

all the open 3's...those used to KILL ME. every day. I remember when we lost to Winthrop @ home. we gave them open 3's all night, and boy did we pay.

[GOO]

Hands down Buzz is the man.  He has proven that he can evaluate talent, recruit, coach, and develop talent.  His ability to recruit quality backups (or multiple quality players at the same positions) will put us in a nice position.  I for one am glad that Crean is gone and that we have Buzz.  I think Buzz takes us further than Crean would have. Buzz managed to put a quality team on the floor despite the odds against him.  I think he may turn out to be a great coach, and not just a recruiter.

I think both Crean and Buzz value the players and require them to attend classes, study, get degrees, etc.  Both understood that this is important at MU and the alumni expect this... and winning at all costs is not acceptable.  The young men have to be valued as human being first.  Buzz may get this and feel it deeper than Crean, I don't know.  

Crean was good for the program, but maybe not the best on the court/coach.  And he never seemed to be able to recruit well unless he had a lot of time to sell.  The constant rumors that he'd put out and Crean's looking into other positions every year really hurt recruiting, in my mind.  Always loosing assistant coaches each year really messed up recruiting.  I think he thought that MU held him back, but maybe it was the other way around at times.

I hope Crean is happy at IU and I think most are very happy with Buzz and wouldn't trade Buzz for Crean


I say Buzz is the better recruiter and better coach.  His offense is way ahead of Creans.  
Crean is the better PR guy.  Buzz has improved his "look" and media ability by leaps in less than 2 years.