Just a poll, not a b*^%$ fight

[BrewCity83]

well played . . . i just audibly laughed at work (some might say I LOL'ed).

Ha!  I did, too!

[Lennys Tap]

PRN, I said he tried to leave....but he didn't.  That's the difference.  KO tried to leave and took the first train out of the station to a crap school with basically no basketball tradition.

That's the difference.  TC played the game, which is look around, and get paid for staying.  It's the game that coaches play when they are hot commodities.

MU suffered tremendously from Majerus 3 years (leaving in June), Dukiet 3 years (fired), KO 5 years (leaving for a non-men's basketball school, Deane 5 years (fired).

4 coaches in 16 years is not going to get it done.

But in the end, he didn't leave.  It's like a guy checking out Penthouse Magazine but never cheating on his wife.  It's one thing to flirt, quite another to go all in.  TC didn't leave and that finally stabilized MU.  I also think that's what hurt MU somewhat after the Final Four because everyone thought he would leave and recruits didn't want to come to MU if he wasn't there.

Stability, something MU didn't have for decades.  Badly needed.

It's nothing like checking out Penthouse magazine but not cheating on your wife. More like carousing all over town but ending up at home because none of the pretty girls are interested. Maybe that's your idea of a "stable" marriage - not mine.

[NersEllenson]

Mike Deane was a far better game coach than either Crean or Buzz.

And what have Buzz's teams done better in close, late-game situations than Crean's?  Nothing, imo.

I'll never understand the Buzz worship here.  The team flopped again the NCAA's last season with a late game choke and we'll see what happens the rest of this year.  I'm not defending Crean, either.  He was (literally) one of the biggest jerks on the planet and there could be an incredible thread of Crean stories (I've got a few doozies from someone who worked with him) that would make the biggest Crean haters gasp.  But he did take his team to a final four, even if they got the living crap beat out of them by Kansas once they got there.

I guess I'd vote for Crean, since I can't see one of Buzz's teams ever getting to the final four.

Just click on Gumby's Historical posts..no need to get riled up.  He's a Badger troll, or a Mike Deane lover.  I think many here could see Buzz Williams 2011-2012 team having a shot at the Final Four.  I've said before and I'll say it again:  Tom Crean's biggest contribution or gift to the MU program will have been:  Hiring Buzz Williams, and then leaving for Indiana - to clear the way for Buzz.  I genuinely believe Buzz can bring MU a run very similar to what Al brought - consistent Top 10 rankings and legitimate Final Four prospects.

[MUrugger]

Sometimes it's more fun to get in on a post ten hours and 50+ posts after it started.  Some random thoughts...

I don't think the ten voters that have supported TC have exercised full disclosure, unless some of his biggest supporters voted multiple times...

In retrospect the '02-'03 Final Four team does look like a Final Four team and most would have probably been upset if they never got there. They had D-Wade and three other future NBArs in Deiner, Novak and Grimm.  Robert Jackson was a beast and Scott Merritt was no slouch.  Add 800+ minutes from Todd Townsend, 500+ from Terry Sanders and solid contributions from Joe Chapman and Karon Bradley.  In the NCAAs they sure looked like one of the top four teams in the country...until the first half vs. Kansas.

I don't ever recall Mike Deane's bench coaching being heralded to any great degree, not by writers, game announcers, anybody until reading it here...

For this alum, and hundreds that I have spoken with, the change in name from Warriors was a far greater blow to the psyche than the I4 comment...

I'd echo what many have said that Tower's post pretty accurately describes my feelings.  I would add that the character aspect that Buzz brings alone over TC would make it an easy vote for me.  I did laugh and agree with every syllable of PRN's post.

I think we are in great shape with Buzz; game coaching, recruiting, representing the University...and the future looks bright.

I am not indifferent about TC.  He was smarmy and disingenuous, both on camera and in person.  I wish him nothing but the worst at II-II; I hope that his legacy will forever be people questioning why he left MU--and Buzz can help make that legacy come true.

[4everwarriors]

Jesus, Chicos. You know damn well he tried to leave every year but his personality is so distasteful that NOBODY WANTED HIM OTHER THAN ARKANSAS!!

He begged Illinois to hire him and they probably would have...until they met him. I know this for an iron clad fact. He spoke with the go-betweens and it was all systems go. This was "4 seconds after" the Final Four. Of course, once a couple people at Illinois got a chance to speak with the horse's ass they called it off and hired Bruce Weber. A career assistant. A person they'd rather take a chance on then Mr. Tanning Booth. What sane person wouldn't make the same choice?

Ohio State, Virginia, Kansas, Kentucky, etc. He was begging for these jobs and, as I pointed out at the time, was having media guys like Katz mention him as a candidate. You know this. Why do you keep giving him credit for staying when he had no choice?

Oh...but he was offered by Arkansas. That's proof he "stayed" despite opportunities. If you've ever been to Little Rock, you'd know that anybody would rather spend a year licking ass cracks at Bradford Beach then live there. But kudos to him for turning down the humidity in bumblef*ck Arkansas.

Are you denying he was looking for jobs the minute the first half buzzer went off in New Orleans? If you are, you're just flat out lying. That's what is so confounding. If you have all these "contacts" why do you choose to deny that this prick was looking elsewhere the ENTIRE TIME HE WAS HERE?! He took the first decent job that was offered...as did O'Neill.

It makes me sick to think that this guy was at Marquette as long as he was and is even an issue. He's such a complete dick that it lessens the basktball program that he was a part of it. Every time his name comes up during a broadcast it makes me want to puke. I would rather Marquette be in Conference USA, the Horizon League, an independent...anything, but to see his like again. There is no more disengenuous, self-serving person in all of sports...collegiate or professional. Yet you keep defending him. This is a guy who makes "friends" by sending fan letters! He goes to tanning salons! He was driving a gold Hummer! In a million years, if a guy like that was your neighbor would you want anything to do with him? He'd actually be a good addition to Jersey Shore!

He's an absolute, complete and total tool!!



Eloquent man, simply eloquent. Great visual also, "licking ass cracks at Bradford Beach. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[77ncaachamps]

Crean did a lot for the program and his egress (how and when) did upset me.

With that said, I think Crean hit his ceiling at MU. How do I know that? Just look at what Buzz is doing with the program.
Not much dropoff (if any) and Crean's struggling at an iconic college basketball program.

[MU B2002]

hey show some respect PRN, the univ of arkansas is in fayetteville not little rock.  And is actually a very nice campus with outstanding football and poultry science facilities (SERIOUSLY.).  Carry on...
;-)

[PE8983]

Buzz is a breath of fresh air and a better overall coach than TC.  TC's only real strength was marketing.
I'll give props to Mike Deane for one thing - he emphasized defense and was a master at coaching it.

[LastWarrior]

It's nothing like checking out Penthouse magazine but not cheating on your wife. More like carousing all over town but ending up at home because none of the pretty girls are interested. Maybe that's your idea of a "stable" marriage - not mine.

I was thinking the exact same thing... nothing like looking at Penthouse, he just got turned down by every drunk slut at the bar.

[rocky_warrior]

For this alum, and hundreds that I have spoken with, the change in name from Warriors was a far greater blow to the psyche than the I4 comment...

Prolly shouldn't rehash this debate, but .....

Funny, I've heard lots of the GE crowd say they don't understand why the Warrior crowd is so fanatic about it.  "Get over it".  But if there were a return to the Warriors, I think they'd "get it" in a heartbeat.  No controversy required.

[gumbyandpokey]

Prolly shouldn't rehash this debate, but .....

Funny, I've heard lots of the GE crowd say they don't understand why the Warrior crowd is so fanatic about it.  "Get over it".  But if there were a return to the Warriors, I think they'd "get it" in a heartbeat.  No controversy required.

Whenever I wear my MU Warriors t-shirt to work out at the Rec Center or Rec Plex, I get compliments from current students.  Even though they are technically "Golden Eagles" (blech...it sickens me to even type that pansy name), they still "get it".  GO WARRIORS!!

[#MUBB]

Buzz is a BLESSING.  Crean did some great things for the program and we owe a lot to him, but Buzz is a coach I'm proud to have represent my university and who I believe will make some noise in college basketball before he's finished.  Buzz makes me want to lace up the sneakers and be a warrior for MU, never got that feeling from TC.