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Date/Time: Oct 4, 2019
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24-10

Author Topic: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10  (Read 11476 times)

DJO's Pump Fake

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TomW1365

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2009, 12:05:44 PM »
Who will get Lazar the ball?!?  How about Robert Frozena?

TallTitan34

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2009, 12:18:46 PM »
I'm pretty happy to see Pittsburgh and Louisville on that list!

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 12:40:02 PM »
I guess it's good that we are "big name."  got to be big name to fall.
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TomW1365

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 01:16:16 PM »
I guess it's good that we are "big name."  got to be big name to fall.

I couldn't agree more... Even after our final four run, we weren't considered to be one of the big names.  We've come along way in the past ten years.  To be a "big name" means people have high expectations on a year in and year out basis.  I think we will surprise some teams this year. 

HoopsMalone

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 02:12:39 PM »
It is great to be considered a big name team.  We have come to a point where we expect to make the tourney and the NIT is a disaster of a year.  People were calling for Crean's head when he made the NIT those two years which is a good sign for the team's expectations. 

I woud say MU's general expectations are:

Conference season
Bottom half- horrible season
top half- satisfactory
top 4- great season
Champs- incredible season

Post-season
No tourney- absolute disaster of a season.
NIT- terrible, but hopefully the team was rebuilding
In tourney- satisfactory
Sweet 16- great season
Elite 8- even better
Final Four- Incredible season
NCAA Champs- Hope I see it once in my life!

dsfire

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 03:04:05 PM »
Are you saying those are general expectations or for next year specifically?

PTM

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 03:11:44 PM »
It is great to be considered a big name team.  We have come to a point where we expect to make the tourney and the NIT is a disaster of a year.  People were calling for Crean's head when he made the NIT those two years which is a good sign for the team's expectations. 

I woud say MU's general expectations are:

Conference season
Bottom half- horrible season
top half- satisfactory
top 4- great season
Champs- incredible season

Post-season
No tourney- absolute disaster of a season.
NIT- terrible, but hopefully the team was rebuilding
In tourney- satisfactory
Sweet 16- great season
Elite 8- even better
Final Four- Incredible season
NCAA Champs- Hope I see it once in my life!

I think you better be preparing yourself for a terrible season.
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HoopsMalone

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2009, 04:10:57 PM »
Are you saying those are general expectations or for next year specifically?

Kind of like an average of expectations for all years.  Obviously, if we recruit LeBron or something that particular year would higher.  But year in and year out, that is how I think an average MU fan would look at the season.  A coach is not on the hotseat unless we don't make the tourney and finish in the bottom half of the conference.

MU B2002

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2009, 04:17:07 PM »
  Obviously, if we recruit LeBron or something...
I didn't even hear that he was opening up his recruitment, good thing we have the schollie open for 09-10!!!
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PuertoRicanNightmare

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 04:24:36 PM »
Labeling an NIT season "terrible" is not quite right. This season, we may start slow and eliminate ourselves from NCAA at large consideration by mid-season. If that were to be the case and we rallied for an NIT birth and won a couple games in the NIT, it would hardly be considered "terrible."

Our previous NIT's were terrible because A) they were in consecutive years after the Final Four; B) they were years 6 and 7 of the previous regime and C) that rout in the Bradley Center to Western Michigan was absolutely putrid.

If Buzz is making back-to-back NIT appearances in years 6 and 7, it would be terrible. This year, not so much.

thanooj

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2009, 04:26:44 PM »
I think you better be preparing yourself for a terrible season.

Steve Novak's senior year I was praying to just make it respectable against uconn on National TV in our first ever big east game.  Little was known going into that year about James, McNeal, and Matthews.  With alot of youth and a very good senior this team could be alright.

Lazar, Cubillan are comprable to Novak, Chapman.  Butler may be better than Amaroso and otule worse than barro.  The  other bigs more than equal Grimm and Kinsella even without seeing them play. An unproven Fulce has more potential and a whole big east season under his belt to put him above lott imo. Two juco guards (DJO and Buyks) seem to be as good if not better than the sophomore transfer Danny Fitzgerald.  Junior, maymon and williams may not be the three amigos, but the potential is there.  

I think if we gel, ncaa is not setting the bar to high.

5th place conference and ncaa bid would be a good season.  nit appearance and 6-9th Big East would be satisfactory to a disappointment.  

I am optimisticly looking forward to a very good season.  
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rocky_warrior

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2009, 04:31:24 PM »
Junior, maymon and williams may not be the three amigos, but the potential is there.  

Too bad Junior's not even on Campus yet.  Too much missed time and he might be the most disappointing player this year - through no fault of his own.

Brewtown Andy

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2009, 06:45:55 PM »
Too bad Junior's not even on Campus yet.  Too much missed time and he might be the most disappointing player this year - through no fault of his own.

I really don't think not being in summer school is THAT big of a problem.  Buzz can still talk to him all the time and make sure he's staying in shape, blah blah.  And they still have to go the first 8 weeks of the school year before practicing as a team.
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Chili

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2009, 06:49:38 PM »

Lazar, Cubillan are comprable to Novak, Chapman.


No freaking way. Steve Novak was one of the best shooters EVER in college basketball. EVER. And Chapman was much better all around than Cubes.
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AZWarrior

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2009, 07:57:37 PM »
No freaking way. Steve Novak was one of the best shooters EVER in college basketball. EVER. And Chapman was much better all around than Cubes.

Not sure I agree.  I will grant you that Novak is clearly a better outside shooter than Lazar.  But Lazar is a clearly better rebounder.  Maybe a better "close in" scorer as well - I don't feel supremely confident in that claim, but I suspect its true (comments anyone?).  So net, I think Lazar and Novak are close enough to justify the "comparable" rating.

I think Chapman was superior to Cubes, BTW.  I would not equate them.
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79Warrior

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2009, 08:03:10 PM »
I really don't think not being in summer school is THAT big of a problem.  Buzz can still talk to him all the time and make sure he's staying in shape, blah blah.  And they still have to go the first 8 weeks of the school year before practicing as a team.

disagree. He is not getting an oppportunity to work with and meet his teamates. It is not about talking to buzz, it's about being around his peers.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2009, 11:23:22 PM »
it's about being around his peers.

And hitting the weight room, and playing pickup games against NBA players, and getting familiar with how his teammates like him to get them the ball (and vice-versa, them getting used to his distribution of the ball). 

Sure there are no "official" practices, but a LOT happens during these summer months, especially for "new" guys.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2009, 12:06:03 AM »
No freaking way. Steve Novak was one of the best shooters EVER in college basketball. EVER. And Chapman was much better all around than Cubes.

+1

4thAndState

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2009, 08:30:14 AM »
+1

I think comparing Lazar to Novak is a bit of an apple-orange thing. Different players, similar average points. Where Novak was the premier 3-pt. shooter, LH has a more all-around game, plus he's a better rebounder. I'd say overall they are pretty close to the same "value" to their respective teams (2005-06 vs. 2009-10). I also think the better comparsion is with Butler to Chapman. On that one, JB has the advantage.

thanooj

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2009, 10:25:56 AM »
I think comparing Lazar to Novak is a bit of an apple-orange thing. Different players, similar average points. Where Novak was the premier 3-pt. shooter, LH has a more all-around game, plus he's a better rebounder. I'd say overall they are pretty close to the same "value" to their respective teams (2005-06 vs. 2009-10). I also think the better comparsion is with Butler to Chapman. On that one, JB has the advantage.

I agree.  If Lazar and Novak are apples to oranges as a player but have the same "value" to their team and we take butler over chapman (again apples to oranges) than this team has the same potential as the three amigos freshmen year.  I know that all of these newcomers are unproven commodities, but so were the three amigos back then.  I don't think we should expect a terrible fall.  We won't have the three four year starters of last year, but I think we can expect a season that keeps with MU's success over the last four years.  A respectable finish in top half of the Big East and an NCAA bid with this young team is where the bar is set.  We will lose some stupid games, but let's hope it is early and that there is a big learning curve for the players and the coach.

And yes steve novak was the best shooter I ever saw. 
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Chili

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2009, 10:45:30 AM »
I think comparing Lazar to Novak is a bit of an apple-orange thing. Different players, similar average points. Where Novak was the premier 3-pt. shooter, LH has a more all-around game, plus he's a better rebounder. I'd say overall they are pretty close to the same "value" to their respective teams (2005-06 vs. 2009-10). I also think the better comparsion is with Butler to Chapman. On that one, JB has the advantage.

I just look at how Steve Novak made James such a great PG by giving him the outlet to do dish to him for a 3pt'er every time. Steve could stretch a defense like no other. Lazar cannot. I just think to what it would have been like to have a shooter like Steve last year on this team and they would have been deadly.
But I like to throw handfuls...

Lennys Tap

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2009, 11:04:33 AM »
Opponents whole game plans revolved around Novak. Someone had to be up in his face from 35' on in. This opened up the court for James, McNeal etc. Those too arrogant or lazy (Connecticut for example) to pay special attention to Steve paid the price. Lazar is a wonderful player but doesn't open up the court for the rest of the team like Novak did. Just comparing their numbers doesn't come close to telling the real story.

Hards_Alumni

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2009, 03:57:29 PM »
The thing about the reasoning in the last two posts is the assumption that Lazar isn't a great shooter.  In fact, he has played out of position his entire career at Marquette and was recruited for his shooting ability.

He hasn't been given the opportunity to be the go to shooter or inside out guy that Novak was.

Is he Novak? No.  But he is much more athletic, and is really a pretty good shooter.

Chili

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Re: Big Name Teams to take a Fall in 09-10
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2009, 04:23:37 PM »
The thing about the reasoning in the last two posts is the assumption that Lazar isn't a great shooter.  In fact, he has played out of position his entire career at Marquette and was recruited for his shooting ability.

He hasn't been given the opportunity to be the go to shooter or inside out guy that Novak was.

Is he Novak? No.  But he is much more athletic, and is really a pretty good shooter.

He is a game changer. Steve is a game changer.
But I like to throw handfuls...