I think this deserves a separate thread. Personally I hate it, but get that these are the times. I also think realignment is awful as well. Imagine being in the B20, not having charter planes, and going to a mid-week track meet from Cali to College Park? Anyway, will there be an NIL cap and can MU compete with schools with much larger endowments and alumni bases? Will it get to a point where Ivies and Stanford for example just pay for the best talent? All of this concerns me. I'd prefer not to get rid of my islands and planes. :)
I think college football (school presidents) will eventually move to a league outside the NCAA's jurisdiction.
Maybe it's 50 teams, maybe 80.
Which could allow for the unionization of players and minimizing the impact of NIL.
As oldwarrior says, unless student athletes becomes employees, unionize, and agree to cap compensation due to a collective bargaining agreement, there really is no way to limit compensation. And that doesn't limit external NIL.
Unless Congress grants the NCAA antitrust exemption. Which is a terrible idea.
Can Marquette compete? Hope so. Not worth worrying about.
NIL is the ruination of college athletics, as we know it. The rich will get richer..., hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 07, 2024, 06:29:42 PM
NIL is the ruination of college athletics, as we know it. The rich will get richer..., hey?
Probably true. So let's enjoy the ride now.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 07, 2024, 06:29:42 PM
NIL is the ruination of college athletics, as we know it. The rich will get richer..., hey?
I don't care for it.
Never felt more confident of the future of college athletics
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 07, 2024, 06:33:20 PM
Never felt more confident of the future of college athletics
Confident of what?
It won't be the "ruination" of anything and the rich have always gotten richer.
Not sure if in the long run it will benefit Marquette however.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:34:13 PM
Confident of what?
Not being ruined, at least by NIL.
Ruined by conferences? Yes. Ruined by the people leading it? Yes. Not by NIL
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2024, 06:34:29 PM
It won't be the "ruination" of anything and the rich have always gotten richer.
Not sure if in the long run it will benefit Marquette however.
So if it won't be good for Marquette is it safe to say it will be much worse for mid-majors? And if that's the case the tournament becomes way, way, way, worse?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:42:31 PM
So if it won't be good for Marquette is it safe to say it will be much worse for mid-majors? And if that's the case the tournament becomes way, way, way, worse?
Well "the tournament" isn't "college athletics." So what is bad for one isn't necessarily bad for the other.
So, the elites get the best players and the non-elites fight to build teams out of the thousands of basketball players not recruited by the elites.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2024, 06:34:29 PM
It won't be the "ruination" of anything and the rich have always gotten richer.
Not sure if in the long run it will benefit Marquette however.
Never fails, the Wizard puts everything in prospective, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 07, 2024, 06:45:41 PM
Never fails, the Wizard puts everything in prospective, aina?
I'm either a smart man...or I have just looked back at everything that was declared to be the ruination of sports, and realized that not only have those predictions not come to pass, they've been laughably wrong.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 07, 2024, 06:44:50 PM
Well "the tournament" isn't "college athletics." So what is bad for one isn't necessarily bad for the other.
Why bother calling it "college athletics"?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:51:32 PM
Why bother calling it "college athletics"?
That's the phrase that 4ever used.
Quote from: tower912 on April 07, 2024, 06:45:00 PM
So, the elites get the best players and the non-elites fight to build teams out of the thousands of basketball players not recruited by the elites.
There's more to it than just that. This could be an unmitigated disaster Tower.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:57:02 PM
There's more to it than just that. This could be an unmitigated disaster Tower.
::) ::) ::)
You do you Muggs.
Adapt or die. The NCAA had a plethora of opportunities over the years to change and it ignorantly held firm in the belief of "amateur" athletics - something that really hasn't truly existed in its written form in decades. It developed into a billion dollar industry with free labor, and ultimately the courts have viewed what is the amateur model of the NCAA as unconstitutional with all of the rulings it has either passed or upheld.
Marquette can continue to be a high-level program within this current landscape. It has the market, it has the focus (no football) and it has the support behind the scenes. I am not worried at all about that. What will need to happen is to let the market settle over the course of several years for there to be a wider and better understanding of NIL, the portal and have some type of consistency.
What is a by-product of the current system is that there are many student-athletes that have not signed any written agreement, but promised $$$ through NIL, that never came through or went unfulfilled. There should be a standard contract for all these student-athletes (and schools/NIL providers can put a final pay date at the end of a season, thus preventing or encouraging mid-season or even postseason transfers). Protects both sides IMO. There's still so much to figure out that a majority of current athletic departments and coaches don't fully grasp yet.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on April 07, 2024, 07:19:10 PM
Adapt or die. The NCAA had a plethora of opportunities over the years to change and it ignorantly held firm in the belief of "amateur" athletics - something that really hasn't truly existed in its written form in decades. It developed into a billion dollar industry with free labor, and ultimately the courts have viewed what is the amateur model of the NCAA as unconstitutional with all of the rulings it has either passed or upheld.
Marquette can continue to be a high-level program within this current landscape. It has the market, it has the focus (no football) and it has the support behind the scenes. I am not worried at all about that. What will need to happen is to let the market settle over the course of several years for there to be a wider and better understanding of NIL, the portal and have some type of consistency.
What is a by-product of the current system is that there are many student-athletes that have not signed any written agreement, but promised $$$ through NIL, that never came through or went unfulfilled. There should be a standard contract for all these student-athletes (and schools/NIL providers can put a final pay date at the end of a season, thus preventing or encouraging mid-season or even postseason transfers). Protects both sides IMO. There's still so much to figure out that a majority of current athletic departments and coaches don't fully grasp yet.
Don't undermine a good post with false claims of "free labor". You threaten your credibility.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on April 07, 2024, 07:23:30 PM
Don't undermine a good post with false claims of "free labor". You threaten your credibility.
Under compensated labor.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 07, 2024, 06:36:35 PM
Not being ruined, at least by NIL.
Ruined by conferences? Yes. Ruined by the people leading it? Yes. Not by NIL
You didn't answer the question what you're feeling so confident about. And you provided examples of what you think may ruin it.
Well, if they're not gettin' $20/hr, they could be flippin' burgers at Mickey D's, aina?
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on April 07, 2024, 07:51:41 PM
You didn't answer the question what you're feeling so confident about. And you provided examples of what you think may ruin it.
I'm confident NIL won't ruin college sports because college sports as we know it are over.
NIL is simply the result of the people running the sport burying their heads in the sand despite all the evidence pointing to this inevitability.
What will happen is, the Big Ten and SEC and whatever monolith they'll create for football will use NIL and the portal and whatever other doomsday happening as an excuse for why they have to split from the NCAA when the real reason is, they just want that sweet TV money. They have a solid foundation of fans that will believe they had no choice because NIL and these maladies forced their hands but it's not true.
How this will change college basketball remains to be seen because football drives it all, but no, it's not an NIL problem. It's a money problem all right, just not the money problem generating angst.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 07, 2024, 08:10:07 PM
I'm confident NIL won't ruin college sports because college sports as we know it are over.
NIL is simply the result of the people running the sport burying their heads in the sand despite all the evidence pointing to this inevitability.
What will happen is, the Big Ten and SEC and whatever monolith they'll create for football will use NIL and the portal and whatever other doomsday happening as an excuse for why they have to split from the NCAA when the real reason is, they just want that sweet TV money. They have a solid foundation of fans that will believe they had no choice because NIL and these maladies forced their hands but it's not true.
How this will change college basketball remains to be seen because football drives it all, but no, it's not an NIL problem. It's a money problem all right, just not the money problem generating angst.
Sounds correct to me.
Quote from: tower912 on April 07, 2024, 06:45:00 PM
So, the elites get the best players and the non-elites fight to build teams out of the thousands of basketball players not recruited by the elites.
Good thing that recruiting is an inexact science and many players develop when they age
Quote from: lawdog77 on April 08, 2024, 05:19:02 PM
Good thing that recruiting is an inexact science and many players develop when they age
You're right, but the downside of that is that the elite programs are going to poach a bunch of those players after they develop.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 08, 2024, 05:38:51 PM
You're right, but the downside of that is that the elite programs are going to poach a bunch of those players after they develop.
As long as we are the poacher and not poachee
Here's what we need:
https://badgerswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/17/wisconsin-badgers-football-nil-beer-varsity-collective-launch/
Someone with a connection to a local brewery needs to get them connected with the MU NIL collective and get us our own NIL brew.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on April 18, 2024, 02:08:08 PM
Here's what we need:
https://badgerswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/17/wisconsin-badgers-football-nil-beer-varsity-collective-launch/
Someone with a connection to a local brewery needs to get them connected with the MU NIL collective and get us our own NIL brew.
There's been a lot of collab with Good City brewing and David is a MU law alum. Not sure how they feel about doing an NIL thing, but it'd be pretty good to have an NIL beer right by the stadium...
It sure would. Get the brand into Fiserv Forum and Miller Park too. Now we're talking some volume.
Why not connect the Be the Difference NIL collective with MU's own student business venture, Blue and Gold Brewing https://www.bandgbrewing.com (https://www.bandgbrewing.com)?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 07, 2024, 08:10:07 PM
I'm confident NIL won't ruin college sports because college sports as we know it are over.
NIL is simply the result of the people running the sport burying their heads in the sand despite all the evidence pointing to this inevitability.
What will happen is, the Big Ten and SEC and whatever monolith they'll create for football will use NIL and the portal and whatever other doomsday happening as an excuse for why they have to split from the NCAA when the real reason is, they just want that sweet TV money. They have a solid foundation of fans that will believe they had no choice because NIL and these maladies forced their hands but it's not true.
How this will change college basketball remains to be seen because football drives it all, but no, it's not an NIL problem. It's a money problem all right, just not the money problem generating angst.
are you contributing $ to Marquette basketball player salaries?
Quote from: Viper on April 18, 2024, 03:54:27 PM
are you contributing $ to Marquette basketball player salaries?
Not a dime
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:04:30 PM
I think this deserves a separate thread. Personally I hate it, but get that these are the times. I also think realignment is awful as well. Imagine being in the B20, not having charter planes, and going to a mid-week track meet from Cali to College Park? Anyway, will there be an NIL cap and can MU compete with schools with much larger endowments and alumni bases? Will it get to a point where Ivies and Stanford for example just pay for the best talent? All of this concerns me. I'd prefer not to get rid of my islands and planes. :)
Muggsy:
The MU Alumni and Supporter community has limited resources.
Yes, MU has spent extensively on it's own program Pre -NIL and that was money well spent over the years.
Seems like our Coach has advocated to the Boosters that everyone on the roster to have some NIL. Seems like that ohilosophy works well with the high school player development approach that appears to be the current mode.
MU can't compete with Big Dollar schools on a pure NIL basis , however I am not convinced the evidence is there that pure dollars can buy Championships. Simply because there are still a lot of teams with dollars and talent develops at different rates. Also there are roster limits and kids don't want to sit on the bench either. So MU just needs enough to attract four Big East Quality kids a year and coach them up.
Hopefully the Big East remains a strong viable conference and that should also keep the high school talent considering MU. Networks have a stake in seeing their content be worth something. So next Media contract should be solid.
MU under Shaka, in an NIL environment, is a solid top 15 program. Not a bad place to be.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on April 18, 2024, 02:29:06 PM
There's been a lot of collab with Good City brewing and David is a MU law alum. Not sure how they feel about doing an NIL thing, but it'd be pretty good to have an NIL beer right by the stadium...
Good City, Gathering Place, and Broken Bat all collaborated with the student-run Blue & Gold Brewing to develop the '77 Golden Ale last year and The Beer Can Cream Ale this year. I would probably say it's worth bringing to B&G Brewing's attention as it would be multi-purposed.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 18, 2024, 07:57:13 PM
Good City, Gathering Place, and Broken Bat all collaborated with the student-run Blue & Gold Brewing to develop the '77 Golden Ale last year and The Beer Can Cream Ale this year. I would probably say it's worth bringing to B&G Brewing's attention as it would be multi-purposed.
As I posted earlier...
Quote from: mug644 on April 18, 2024, 03:00:28 PM
Why not connect the Be the Difference NIL collective with MU's own student business venture, Blue and Gold Brewing https://www.bandgbrewing.com (https://www.bandgbrewing.com)?
The MU Alumni and Supporter community has limited resources.
You know this how?
Quote from: PointWarrior on April 18, 2024, 09:03:13 PM
The MU Alumni and Supporter community has limited resources.
You know this how?
Hermie is under the impression that schools are dipping into endowments to pay NIL.
Quote from: PointWarrior on April 18, 2024, 09:03:13 PM
The MU Alumni and Supporter community has limited resources.
You know this how?
He doesn't
Will say this here rather than further corrupting the transfer portal thread. I get the frustration with NIL and the thought this will drive fans away. I had that moment with college football over a decade ago with the first big conference reorganization and the demise of that version of the Big East. The same problem with men's professional golf right now.
Greed is still one of the seven deadlies.
A long time ago, when you could still occasionally have a rational conversation with Chico, I argued that greed and narcissism were the biggest threats to society. I haven't seen much to change my mind in the last dozen or so years.
Quote from: tower912 on April 19, 2024, 07:39:36 AM
Will say this here rather than further corrupting the transfer portal thread. I get the frustration with NIL and the thought this will drive fans away. I had that moment with college football over a decade ago with the first big conference reorganization and the demise of that version of the Big East. The same problem with men's professional golf right now.
Greed is still one of the seven deadlies.
Who's guilty of greed here?
Quote from: tower912 on April 19, 2024, 07:39:36 AM
Will say this here rather than further corrupting the transfer portal thread. I get the frustration with NIL and the thought this will drive fans away. I had that moment with college football over a decade ago with the first big conference reorganization and the demise of that version of the Big East. The same problem with men's professional golf right now.
Greed is still one of the seven deadlies.
I agree with this. The money in college athletics is a massive problem, the biggest of which is the distribution of it.
Greed lead to conference realignment which destroyed decades long traditions and rivalries, done so with no regards to fans. One of the unintended consequences has been the 4-hour games fans have to attend to stuff in commercials and terrible home schedules. I know Badger season ticket holders who dropped season packages because of how bad the schedule is for football. Easy to sell the Ohio State games. Rutgers or Maryland? Not so much.
The blame lays at the feet of the conference commissioners, school presidents and AD's who chased every penny with no regard for the players or fans. The reckoning has been coming for decades with regards to player compensation and they buried their heads in the sand.
The portal and NIL are all things they could have controlled from the beginning. Would people still howl about it being unfair? Yup. But you needed a plan and room to adjust. Instead, you opened the floodgates with no plan to control the water. That's on you, universities, not the athletes.
Who isn't? I have long thought that college athletes should get a stipend. The legendary Jim Chones story comes to mind. What we have now is the chaos that comes from a new product, a new way to make money, without enough guidelines.
Except there is no real evidence that fans are being driven away from college football or college basketball.
And while I agree that conference realignment is greed, I don't think NIL is. The current NIL environment is all about the NCAA and its member school digging in on amateurism until it lost control of its own destiny. The fact is many college athletes had values greater than their scholarships, and now we are living in an environment where they are allowed to max out those values.
And honestly good for them. There has been a lot of money flowing around intercollegiate athletics for years and it has mostly been used to build fancy new buildings and enrich the coaches and administrators in charge. So I am not going to hand-wring about Jonas Aidoo getting $1.4 million. I have no idea if its sustainable or not. That's not my problem. It certainly isn't Jonas' problem. Grab that bag! Be smart with it. You will have a jump start on life that 99% of people your age won't have.
So don't blame the players because the adults in charge were unwilling to change. If everyone could go back a decade, the path would be easy. But a lot of people were paid a lot of money to be "in charge" of something. And they ended up REALLY bad at it.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 07:54:03 AM
Except there is no real evidence that fans are being driven away from college football or college basketball.
And while I agree that conference realignment is greed, I don't think NIL is. The current NIL environment is all about the NCAA and its member school digging in on amateurism until it lost control of its own destiny. The fact is many college athletes had values greater than their scholarships, and now we are living in an environment where they are allowed to max out those values.
And honestly good for them. There has been a lot of money flowing around intercollegiate athletics for years and it has mostly been used to build fancy new buildings and enrich the coaches and administrators in charge. So I am not going to hand-wring about Jonas Aidoo getting $1.4 million. I have no idea if its sustainable or not. That's not my problem. It certainly isn't Jonas' problem. Grab that bag! Be smart with it. You will have a jump start on life that 99% of people your age won't have.
So don't blame the players because the adults in charge were unwilling to change. If everyone could go back a decade, the path would be easy. But a lot of people were paid a lot of money to be "in charge" of something. And they ended up REALLY bad at it.
Yep yep yep.
I think the ramifications of all of this are far worse than the obvious. And don't discount the roll that app gambling could play moving forward. To think J Porter is the only one dumb enough to bet on his team or whatever is very naive.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 08:06:58 AM
I think the ramifications of all of this are far worse than the obvious.
Like what?
Quote from: tower912 on April 19, 2024, 07:52:16 AM
Who isn't? I have long thought that college athletes should get a stipend. The legendary Jim Chones story comes to mind. What we have now is the chaos that comes from a new product, a new way to make money, without enough guidelines.
Is it greedy to seek the best employment opportunity to provide for.yourself and your family?
If it is, then 99.9% of us are greedy. Kind of sucks to realize one is committing a deadly sin by taking a better job.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 08:08:14 AM
Like what?
Like college players betting a lot more because they have cash. Or teammates resentful that they don't and betting to make up for it. The easy access to sports gambling is very, very, bad, Fluffy. You realize that young kids are being bombarded with Fanduel and these ads constantly while they watch pretty much anything. This is a societal issue, and those that get directly involved in college sports, that can impact making a quick buck by their actions, will be constantly tempted.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 07:54:03 AM
Except there is no real evidence that fans are being driven away from college football or college basketball.
And while I agree that conference realignment is greed, I don't think NIL is. The current NIL environment is all about the NCAA and its member school digging in on amateurism until it lost control of its own destiny. The fact is many college athletes had values greater than their scholarships, and now we are living in an environment where they are allowed to max out those values.
And honestly good for them. There has been a lot of money flowing around intercollegiate athletics for years and it has mostly been used to build fancy new buildings and enrich the coaches and administrators in charge. So I am not going to hand-wring about Jonas Aidoo getting $1.4 million. I have no idea if its sustainable or not. That's not my problem. It certainly isn't Jonas' problem. Grab that bag! Be smart with it. You will have a jump start on life that 99% of people your age won't have.
So don't blame the players because the adults in charge were unwilling to change. If everyone could go back a decade, the path would be easy. But a lot of people were paid a lot of money to be "in charge" of something. And they ended up REALLY bad at it.
Nailed it.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 08:18:23 AM
Like college players betting a lot more because they have cash. Or teammates resentful that they don't and betting to make up for it. The easy access to sports gambling is very, very, bad, Fluffy. You realize that young kids are being bombarded with Fanduel and these ads constantly while they watch pretty much anything. This is a societal issue, and those that get directly involved in college sports, that can impact making a quick buck by their actions, will be constantly tempted.
You do know salaries across any profession aren't equal, right? Good life lesson for these kids. Work harder and get better.
I doubt kids are gambling. It's a sin to gamble
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 08:18:23 AM
Like college players betting a lot more because they have cash. Or teammates resentful that they don't and betting to make up for it. The easy access to sports gambling is very, very, bad, Fluffy. You realize that young kids are being bombarded with Fanduel and these ads constantly while they watch pretty much anything. This is a societal issue, and those that get directly involved in college sports, that can impact making a quick buck by their actions, will be constantly tempted.
None of this is new.
And how do professional sports teams survive with players receiving wildly disparate salaries?
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 08:18:23 AM
Like college players betting a lot more because they have cash. Or teammates resentful that they don't and betting to make up for it. The easy access to sports gambling is very, very, bad, Fluffy. You realize that young kids are being bombarded with Fanduel and these ads constantly while they watch pretty much anything. This is a societal issue, and those that get directly involved in college sports, that can impact making a quick buck by their actions, will be constantly tempted.
NIL going away changes none of this. Stop being such a reactionary.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:51:32 PM
Why bother calling it "college athletics"?
At the highest levels that's been true for years.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 08:18:23 AM
Like college players betting a lot more because they have cash. Or teammates resentful that they don't and betting to make up for it. The easy access to sports gambling is very, very, bad, Fluffy. You realize that young kids are being bombarded with Fanduel and these ads constantly while they watch pretty much anything. This is a societal issue, and those that get directly involved in college sports, that can impact making a quick buck by their actions, will be constantly tempted.
You said "far worse than the obvious." These are all pretty obvious.
Muggsy, you do realize that there are 4 or 5 on here, two of whom might be one, that will counter, argue and argue some more...on any post? In fact, have some fun. Post something totally made-up. Make it crazy outlandish. Then, sit back and watch these select have at it. They'll debate themselves. The 'always right' crew live on Scoop, my friend.
Quote from: Viper on April 19, 2024, 10:25:31 AM
Muggsy, you do realize that there are 4 or 5 on here, two of whom might be one, that will counter, argue and argue some more...on any post? In fact, have some fun. Post something totally made-up. Make it crazy outlandish. Then, sit back and watch these select have at it. They'll debate themselves. The 'always right' crew live on Scoop, my friend.
Stick to RED.
Quote from: Viper on April 19, 2024, 10:25:31 AM
Muggsy, you do realize that there are 4 or 5 on here, two of whom might be one, that will counter, argue and argue some more...on any post? In fact, have some fun. Post something totally made-up. Make it crazy outlandish. Then, sit back and watch these select have at it. They'll debate themselves. The 'always right' crew live on Scoop, my friend.
Nah, some people just live in a world where you can't just make stuff up. Apologies if you don't want to live in that world.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 07:54:03 AM
Except there is no real evidence that fans are being driven away from college football or college basketball.
And while I agree that conference realignment is greed, I don't think NIL is. The current NIL environment is all about the NCAA and its member school digging in on amateurism until it lost control of its own destiny. The fact is many college athletes had values greater than their scholarships, and now we are living in an environment where they are allowed to max out those values.
And honestly good for them. There has been a lot of money flowing around intercollegiate athletics for years and it has mostly been used to build fancy new buildings and enrich the coaches and administrators in charge. So I am not going to hand-wring about Jonas Aidoo getting $1.4 million. I have no idea if its sustainable or not. That's not my problem. It certainly isn't Jonas' problem. Grab that bag! Be smart with it. You will have a jump start on life that 99% of people your age won't have.
So don't blame the players because the adults in charge were unwilling to change. If everyone could go back a decade, the path would be easy. But a lot of people were paid a lot of money to be "in charge" of something. And they ended up REALLY bad at it.
^ This
The winners in an NIL scenario are the top schools. The SEC commish/Greg Sankey said the quiet part out loud before the tourney. It's clear they are trying to break things so they can consolidate the money. I don't know why people blame the players -- at least they are now getting something from this out in the open vs. under the table.
Quote from: tower912 on April 19, 2024, 07:39:36 AM
Will say this here rather than further corrupting the transfer portal thread. I get the frustration with NIL and the thought this will drive fans away. I had that moment with college football over a decade ago with the first big conference reorganization and the demise of that version of the Big East. The same problem with men's professional golf right now.
Greed is still one of the seven deadlies.
A long time ago, when you could still occasionally have a rational conversation with Chico, I argued that greed and narcissism were the biggest threats to society. I haven't seen much to change my mind in the last dozen or so years.
Agree with the overall premise of this.
I also agree with others that say it's not the athletes problem.
I'm still not sure any of this is sustainable with regard to the athletes as there is still no ROI for people funding this except for playing "GM/owner" of something you don't own and are not the GM of.
Basically it's still lighting money on fire. There can be only one national champion each year and 100s of millions of dollars thrown down the toilet. When will donors get smart when it simply doesn't work and they realize throwing more money at the players doesn't change the fact that they are still only college players who are prone to stumble and bumble their way through seasons.
Owners like Jerry Jones or Jerry Reinsdorf (I just threw up in my mouth ) pay players but also get value in return. These donors get nothing except pride when the money is reasonable. They will be getting fleeced as the money becomes more unreasonable. It just doesn't seem sustainable unless Saudi oil is backing you. And they are literally lighting their money on fire with the LIV tour.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on April 19, 2024, 12:33:02 PM
Agree with the overall premise of this.
I also agree with others that say it's not the athletes problem.
I'm still not sure any of this is sustainable with regard to the athletes as there is still no ROI for people funding this except for playing "GM/owner" of something you don't own and are not the GM of.
Basically it's still lighting money on fire. There can be only one national champion each year and 100s of millions of dollars thrown down the toilet. When will donors get smart when it simply doesn't work and they realize throwing more money at the players doesn't change the fact that they are still only college players who are prone to stumble and bumble their way through seasons.
Owners like Jerry Jones or Jerry Reinsdorf (I just threw up in my mouth ) pay players but also get value in return. These donors get nothing except pride when the money is reasonable. They will be getting fleeced as the money becomes more unreasonable. It just doesn't seem sustainable unless Saudi oil is backing you. And they are literally lighting their money on fire with the LIV tour.
I think the Saudi's should pull a LIV on college basketball. Start funding a no-status school like Chicago State, pay the top 10 players each year $5M and own the tourney year after year. Then we might see the top conferences/school sing a different tune about NIL fairness.
Quote from: PointWarrior on April 19, 2024, 12:38:37 PM
I think the Saudi's should pull a LIV on college basketball. Start funding a no-status school like Chicago State, pay the top 10 players each year $5M and own the tourney year after year. Then we might see the top conferences/school sing a different tune about NIL fairness.
That would be funny. If I'm Chicago State I would try to set up a meeting. Why not?
Why would the Saudis do this? At least their investments in golf have a potential financial benefit down the line. What is supporting a public university's basketball team going to do for them?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 12:50:31 PM
Why would the Saudis do this? At least their investments in golf have a potential financial benefit down the line. What is supporting a public university's basketball team going to do for them?
I've thought about what universities would attach themselves to the bonesaws. Pretty sure Texas A&M has some Middle East ties.
Grand Canyon is the obvious choice
St. Thomas.
Fed Ex has pledged 5 years/$25 million total to Memphis. For football, men's/women's basketball, and women's sports. Times are tough at Fed Ex, as this seems less than what they were giving under the table.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 12:50:31 PM
Why would the Saudis do this? At least their investments in golf have a potential financial benefit down the line. What is supporting a public university's basketball team going to do for them?
Obviously, it was a joke. Come on Sultan, it didn't even warrant a serious reply.
I don't recall I or anyone else here blaming the athlete. That's not the freaking point. I'd be pissed if Kam or if any of our players are/were poached but wouldn't be upset with them. The current NIL system sucking has nothing to do with how much the NCAA has sucked.
The tournament alone generates how much in revenue? Can they not distribute far more of this cash to the teams /players? And add cash opportunities with jersey and likeness stuff? Paying individual players salaries in the 1-5 million dollar range will not benefit the sport imo. There needs to be incentives for staying at a particular school or some sort of cap. The only way this is solvable is if some of the great minds here come up with better solutions.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
I don't recall I or anyone else here blaming the athlete. That's not the freaking point. I'd be pissed if Kam or if any of our players are/were poached but wouldn't be upset with them. The current NIL system sucking has nothing to do with how much the NCAA has sucked.
The tournament alone generates how much in revenue? Can they not distribute far more of this cash to the teams /players? And add cash opportunities with jersey and likeness stuff? Paying individual players salaries in the 1-5 million dollar range will not benefit the sport imo. There needs to be incentives for staying at a particular school or some sort of cap. The only way this is solvable is if some of the great minds here come up with better solutions.
Here?!? No one here is fixing this problem, lol
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 19, 2024, 01:43:03 PM
Here?!? No one here is fixing this problem, lol
My man Muggsy needs to learn and use the serenity prayer.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
I don't recall I or anyone else here blaming the athlete. That's not the freaking point. I'd be pissed if Kam or if any of our players are/were poached but wouldn't be upset with them. The current NIL system sucking has nothing to do with how much the NCAA has sucked.
Of course it does. The whole reason we got here is because the NCAA and its members couldn't see the writing on the wall and deal with this situation on the outset.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
The tournament alone generates how much in revenue? Can they not distribute far more of this cash to the teams /players?
How? The players are not employees of the schools.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
And add cash opportunities with jersey and likeness stuff?
Already happening.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
Paying individual players salaries in the 1-5 million dollar range will not benefit the sport imo. There needs to be incentives for staying at a particular school or some sort of cap. The only way this is solvable is if some of the great minds here come up with better solutions.
I'm sure retention of some sort is written into NIL deals. And there legally cannot be a cap.
There have been plenty of suggestion floated.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 12:50:31 PM
Why would the Saudis do this? At least their investments in golf have a potential financial benefit down the line. What is supporting a public university's basketball team going to do for them?
...hook, line, sinker
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
I don't recall I or anyone else here blaming the athlete. That's not the freaking point. I'd be pissed if Kam or if any of our players are/were poached but wouldn't be upset with them. The current NIL system sucking has nothing to do with how much the NCAA has sucked.
The tournament alone generates how much in revenue? Can they not distribute far more of this cash to the teams /players? And add cash opportunities with jersey and likeness stuff? Paying individual players salaries in the 1-5 million dollar range will not benefit the sport imo. There needs to be incentives for staying at a particular school or some sort of cap. The only way this is solvable is if some of the great minds here come up with better solutions.
Huh, are you not a capitalist?
Quote from: Hards Alumni on April 19, 2024, 02:10:10 PM
Huh, are you not a capitalist?
Lots of Scoopers have been capitalists when it comes to their preference for how the U.S. economy should function. Unless the subject is college athletes.
IIRC, hoopaloop/chicos/Cheeks even admitted as much.
Former Florida football recruit (and current Georgia QB) sues coach Billy Napier and a UF booster over a $13.85 million NIL deal that fell through.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/georgia-qb-jaden-rashada-sues-florida-coach-billy-napier-among-others-over-botched-13-85m-nil-deal/
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on April 19, 2024, 07:54:03 AM
Except there is no real evidence that fans are being driven away from college football or college basketball.
And while I agree that conference realignment is greed, I don't think NIL is. The current NIL environment is all about the NCAA and its member school digging in on amateurism until it lost control of its own destiny. The fact is many college athletes had values greater than their scholarships, and now we are living in an environment where they are allowed to max out those values.
And honestly good for them. There has been a lot of money flowing around intercollegiate athletics for years and it has mostly been used to build fancy new buildings and enrich the coaches and administrators in charge. So I am not going to hand-wring about Jonas Aidoo getting $1.4 million. I have no idea if its sustainable or not. That's not my problem. It certainly isn't Jonas' problem. Grab that bag! Be smart with it. You will have a jump start on life that 99% of people your age won't have.
So don't blame the players because the adults in charge were unwilling to change. If everyone could go back a decade, the path would be easy. But a lot of people were paid a lot of money to be "in charge" of something. And they ended up REALLY bad at it.
I don't blame the players at all. I just don't see how Marquette will be able to compete at the elite level and win Championships, and especially if the NCAA will pay out of basketball revenues any antitrust settlement. In the end it probably won't matter as the NCAAT will be gone as we know it after 2032 when the network contracts expire.
Miami NIL kingpin LifeWallet about to close.
Quote from: lawdog77 on August 16, 2024, 04:33:46 PM
Miami NIL kingpin LifeWallet about to close.
$211M loss on just
$7.7M of revenue???? :o Damn! That ship is sunk.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 07, 2024, 06:04:30 PM
I think this deserves a separate thread. Personally I hate it, but get that these are the times. I also think realignment is awful as well. Imagine being in the B20, not having charter planes, and going to a mid-week track meet from Cali to College Park? Anyway, will there be an NIL cap and can MU compete with schools with much larger endowments and alumni bases? Will it get to a point where Ivies and Stanford for example just pay for the best talent? All of this concerns me. I'd prefer not to get rid of my islands and planes. :)
I realize I'm months late to the party here but Mugs, you're showing you don't much about college sports if you think student athletes compete mid week in track at a conference opponent.
Take T&F or XC for example. All of those events are held on weekends (typically Fridays but not always) and usually at various invites that you control where you go (most are regional). You only see your conference foes at the conference meet. MU is not playing St John's in Track on a Wednesday in Jamaica.
Quote from: MuggsyB on April 19, 2024, 01:34:24 PM
The tournament alone generates how much in revenue? Can they not distribute far more of this cash to the teams /players? And add cash opportunities with jersey and likeness stuff? Paying individual players salaries in the 1-5 million dollar range will not benefit the sport imo. There needs to be incentives for staying at a particular school or some sort of cap. The only way this is solvable is if some of the great minds here come up with better solutions.
Asking questions like these just further reinforces my belief that you are a 13 year old with nothing better to do than attempt to talk sports with adults.
Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy told players to stop 'asking for more money' and NIL deals, focus on football
https://sports.yahoo.com/oklahoma-state-coach-mike-gundy-told-players-to-stop-asking-for-more-money-and-nil-deals-focus-on-football-014016634.html
OSU players after a big play:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVcRWEFWMAAKhmZ?format=jpg&name=small)
I imagine Tennessee won't be the last to do this ....
Tennessee is preparing for a world in which schools pay athletes directly by charging fans a "talent fee" to pass along to the players.
Though the House v. NCAA settlement that would usher in the era of revenue sharing has yet to be approved by a federal judge, Tennessee athletic director Danny White told On3 that his school will implement a plan to add a 10 percent surcharge to all season and single-game ticket sales. If the settlement is approved, schools would be allowed to pay about $22 million a year to athletes beginning in the 2025-26 school year.
White estimates that with the new roster caps included in the settlement — which would raise the number of available athletic scholarships — the actual cost is closer to $30 million a year. Tennessee hopes to recoup about $10 million of that through the surcharge, which will come in addition to a football ticket price increase averaging 4.5 percent across all seats. Knowing any hike in ticket prices would produce consternation, White and his team decided the best way to handle this one was to explain which part of the new money will be earmarked for the players.
https://www.on3.com/news/tennessee-to-add-10-percent-talent-fee-to-ticket-prices/
Quote from: Pakuni on September 17, 2024, 11:19:41 AM
I imagine Tennessee won't be the last to do this ....
Tennessee is preparing for a world in which schools pay athletes directly by charging fans a "talent fee" to pass along to the players.
Though the House v. NCAA settlement that would usher in the era of revenue sharing has yet to be approved by a federal judge, Tennessee athletic director Danny White told On3 that his school will implement a plan to add a 10 percent surcharge to all season and single-game ticket sales. If the settlement is approved, schools would be allowed to pay about $22 million a year to athletes beginning in the 2025-26 school year.
White estimates that with the new roster caps included in the settlement — which would raise the number of available athletic scholarships — the actual cost is closer to $30 million a year. Tennessee hopes to recoup about $10 million of that through the surcharge, which will come in addition to a football ticket price increase averaging 4.5 percent across all seats. Knowing any hike in ticket prices would produce consternation, White and his team decided the best way to handle this one was to explain which part of the new money will be earmarked for the players.
https://www.on3.com/news/tennessee-to-add-10-percent-talent-fee-to-ticket-prices/
https://x.com/byjoelanderson/status/1836049246329716874?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
They did raise the prices. Anyway, taxpayer funded NIL? Crony capitalism. Taxpayers assume all the risk. Deep pockets see all of the gain.
Quote from: tower912 on September 17, 2024, 11:29:25 AM
They did raise the prices. Anyway, taxpayer funded NIL? Crony capitalism. Taxpayers assume all the risk. Deep pockets see all of the gain.
Interesting they chose to frame the price increase this time with NIL as a reason.
Tennessee did buyout a coach 18-months after handing him a 5-year, $20 million deal.
Not that interesting. Boringly predictable.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 17, 2024, 11:31:51 AM
Interesting they chose to frame the price increase this time with NIL as a reason.
Tennessee did buyout a coach 18-months after handing him a 5-year, $20 million deal.
I think rather than trying to make the players look bad, like your tweeter suggested, I think it's a way of selling a price hike in a way the fans are more likely to accept.
Hard to sell a 10% ticket increase to fund bloated administrative costs or coaching salaries. Tell fans you're using the money to buy a few 5-stars, and they'll happily fork it over.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 17, 2024, 12:15:14 PM
I think rather than trying to make the players look bad, like your tweeter suggested, I think it's a way of selling a price hike in a way the fans are more likely to accept.
Hard to sell a 10% ticket increase to fund bloated administrative costs or coaching salaries. Tell fans you're using the money to buy a few 5-stars, and they'll happily fork it over.
That does not fit the agenda. Hard Pass. ;)
Quote from: Pakuni on September 17, 2024, 12:15:14 PM
I think rather than trying to make the players look bad, like your tweeter suggested, I think it's a way of selling a price hike in a way the fans are more likely to accept.
Hard to sell a 10% ticket increase to fund bloated administrative costs or coaching salaries. Tell fans you're using the money to buy a few 5-stars, and they'll happily fork it over.
In some places, I suppose.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 17, 2024, 12:52:49 PM
That does not fit the agenda. Hard Pass. ;)
What agenda? Players have been under compensated for a century and college athletics haven't been anything close to amateur near as long? Not in this case.
In this case, universities are beginning to understand they could have avoided all this decades ago but buried their heads in the sand. In doing so, it's the consumer that will have to help pay for their malfeasance
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 17, 2024, 01:03:26 PM
What agenda? Players have been under compensated for a century and college athletics haven't been anything close to amateur near as long? Not in this case.
In this case, universities are beginning to understand they could have avoided all this decades ago but buried their heads in the sand. In doing so, it's the consumer that will have to help pay for their malfeasance
The agenda that everything the schools do is out to screw the players and make them look bad. Sometimes an itemized fee is just that, and not a PR stunt to make the players look bad.
Everyone is getting paid now. Exhale.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 17, 2024, 02:45:45 PM
The agenda that everything the schools do is out to screw the players and make them look bad. Sometimes an itemized fee is just that, and not a PR stunt to make the players look bad.
Everyone is getting paid now. Exhale.
It's not a PR stunt to make players look bad but they specifically noted it's to "help" pay for players which universities can't do at the moment.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 17, 2024, 03:07:08 PM
It's not a PR stunt to make players look bad but they specifically noted it's to "help" pay for players which universities can't do at the moment.
"These schools are fools for not getting ahead of this paying the players issue"
"These schools are fools for getting ahead of this paying the players issue"
;D
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 17, 2024, 03:49:53 PM
"These schools are fools for not getting ahead of this paying the players issue"
"These schools are fools for getting ahead of this paying the players issue"
;D
They are. Given the millions they've reaped in TV revenue and fundraising, they could have been ahead of the game and formulated a plan that doesn't require raising ticket prices on the consumer and lying to them saying it'll help buy players
for those that laughed at the thought of the Saudi's getting into the NIL business:
https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/08/23/university-of-colorado-nil-saudi (https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/08/23/university-of-colorado-nil-saudi)
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 17, 2024, 01:03:26 PM
What agenda? Players have been under compensated for a century and college athletics haven't been anything close to amateur near as long? Not in this case.
In this case, universities are beginning to understand they could have avoided all this decades ago but buried their heads in the sand. In doing so, it's the consumer that will have to help pay for their malfeasance
Really? Jim Chones signing bonus was a million dollars and he didn't pay a penny to attend school. Most MU graduates were lucky to start at 10k to 15k at the time and had to pay some if not all their tuition.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 21, 2024, 06:15:42 AM
Really? Jim Chones signing bonus was a million dollars and he didn't pay a penny to attend school. Most MU graduates were lucky to start at 10k to 15k at the time and had to pay some if not all their tuition.
Those grads should have been better at sports
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 21, 2024, 06:15:42 AM
Really? Jim Chones signing bonus was a million dollars and he didn't pay a penny to attend school. Most MU graduates were lucky to start at 10k to 15k at the time and had to pay some if not all their tuition.
The market says they're under-compensated. That is why they're making more money now. Simple economics.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 21, 2024, 06:17:33 AM
Those grads should have been better at sports
Or smarter.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 21, 2024, 06:56:30 AM
The market says they're under-compensated. That is why they're making more money now. Simple economics.
It's interesting how the old-timers long for the days of when the kids played for the name on the front of the jersey when the coach of that era was legendary for fighting the NCAA and would almost certainly be all for what is happening today with athletes being compensated
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 21, 2024, 07:15:34 AM
It's interesting how the old-timers long for the days of when the kids played for the name on the front of the jersey when the coach of that era was legendary for fighting the NCAA and would almost certainly be all for what is happening today with athletes being compensated
You mean the coach who left because he felt under-compensated?
The coach who told his star player to take the money and run.
Quote from: tower912 on September 21, 2024, 07:51:28 AM
The coach who told his star player to take the money and run.
Great, now I have the Steve Miller song playing in my head all day.
This here's a story about Jimmy Chones and Bobby , too
Two young players, with nothin better to do...........
Whoo-hoo-hoo
Ooooooh, lorrrrd.....
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 07, 2024, 06:29:42 PM
NIL is the ruination of college athletics, as we know it. The rich will get richer..., hey?
It will be very difficult for schools like Marquette and fellow Big East teams to compete for the best recruits when going up against the University of Texases of the world. Not to mention Stanford and any other uber rich school. Who knows if Ivies will get in on it, but they sure could.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on September 23, 2024, 01:28:49 PM
It will be very difficult for schools like Marquette and fellow Big East teams to compete for the best recruits when going up against the University of Texases of the world. Not to mention Stanford and any other uber rich school. Who knows if Ivies will get in on it, but they sure could.
So...just like things have always been?
Quote from: wadesworld on September 23, 2024, 02:39:59 PM
So...just like things have always been?
Correct. And those big schools generally spend on football primarily with basketball being a second thought.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 23, 2024, 02:39:59 PM
So...just like things have always been?
You only need 5 in basketball....an extra $5M (1 million to each of 5 guys) could change a program.
Higher revenue schools can do this more.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on September 23, 2024, 03:00:05 PM
You only need 5 in basketball....an extra $5M (1 million to each of 5 guys) could change a program.
Higher revenue schools can do this more.
Then why aren't they?
The answer is because those high revenue schools have to worry about football because that is what drives more donor interest. And "high revenue" doesn't mean "limitless revenue."
It's amazing to me that so many MU fans can't internalize that we're a very high spending program. Any time funding creates a competitive advantage, that's good for us. Higher NIL is good for us.
Quote from: Tyler COLEk on September 23, 2024, 09:15:49 PM
It's amazing to me that so many MU fans can't internalize that we're a very high spending program. Any time funding creates a competitive advantage, that's good for us. Higher NIL is good for us.
It's probably because so many of us are also Brewers and Packers fans, so we're used to being a small market team that doesn't spend.
Quote from: SaveOD238 on September 23, 2024, 09:25:11 PM
It's probably because so many of us are also Brewers and Packers fans, so we're used to being a small market team that doesn't spend.
The Packers don't spend???
Are there any scoop legal minds out there who can help with a couple questions. How many years can you go back to sue your school, conference and NCAA for reparations? I saw Bush was doing this and was just curious. Could all living Heisman winners do this and have legal standing? Will the 1983 NC State team win their case?
I can't imagine these guys haven't gotten some benefits from their respective communities after graduation. Better job opportunities, free meals, court side seats, sky boxes, etc. But how much is hard to tally. How much is enough? How would the courts figure this out?
something that will become more common: players quitting on their team over NIL. UNLV's starting QB is bailing despite the Rebels being in a legit position for a playoff berth (rumors are the Holy Cross transfer got offered more somewhere else). At least Kadary Richmond came back to the Seton Hall team after demanding more NIL during the season:
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2024/sep/24/unlv-starting-quarterback-matthew-sluka-leaving-te/
In his post announcing his departure from UNLV, Sluka alluded to issues with NIL payments as the reason for his exit.
"I committed to UNLV based on certain representations that were made to me, which were not upheld after I enrolled," he wrote. "Despite discussions, it became clear that these commitments would not be fulfilled in the future."
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 07:45:04 AM
something that will become more common: players quitting on their team over NIL. UNLV's starting QB is bailing despite the Rebels being in a legit position for a playoff berth (rumors are the Holy Cross transfer got offered more somewhere else). At least Kadary Richmond came back to the Seton Hall team after demanding more NIL during the season:
If your value proposition to a player is money and you don't pay them...
Said a different way if my company didn't send me a paycheck for a month, I probably wouldn't be accused of quitting.
Don't lie to players then. If I accepted a job offer and then the pay was less than I was told, I would quit too. Bad look for UNLV (If this is in fact the case).
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 07:45:04 AM
something that will become more common: players quitting on their team over NIL. UNLV's starting QB is bailing despite the Rebels being in a legit position for a playoff berth (rumors are the Holy Cross transfer got offered more somewhere else). At least Kadary Richmond came back to the Seton Hall team after demanding more NIL during the season:
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2024/sep/24/unlv-starting-quarterback-matthew-sluka-leaving-te/
In his post announcing his departure from UNLV, Sluka alluded to issues with NIL payments as the reason for his exit.
"I committed to UNLV based on certain representations that were made to me, which were not upheld after I enrolled," he wrote. "Despite discussions, it became clear that these commitments would not be fulfilled in the future."
UNLV learning a hard lesson, boosters and collectives need to fulfill their promises. Smart of the kid to use his redshirt. That Holy Cross degree paid off
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 07:45:04 AM
something that will become more common: players quitting on their team over NIL. UNLV's starting QB is bailing despite the Rebels being in a legit position for a playoff berth (rumors are the Holy Cross transfer got offered more somewhere else). At least Kadary Richmond came back to the Seton Hall team after demanding more NIL during the season:
https://lasvegassun.com/news/2024/sep/24/unlv-starting-quarterback-matthew-sluka-leaving-te/
In his post announcing his departure from UNLV, Sluka alluded to issues with NIL payments as the reason for his exit.
"I committed to UNLV based on certain representations that were made to me, which were not upheld after I enrolled," he wrote. "Despite discussions, it became clear that these commitments would not be fulfilled in the future."
So the school agreed to pay him and then didn't and you think he's the bad guy?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 25, 2024, 08:14:48 AM
So the school agreed to pay him and then didn't and you think he's the bad guy?
they paid him and reportedly another school came in and told him they'd give him more to quit now and transfer. These kids are coached on what to say in public. Also reports that it's like Richmond where he was getting what he agreed to then demanded more (UNLV had a bye week last weekend). If either of those are accurate then, yes, he's the bad guy for quitting on his teammates.
https://x.com/PalomaFOX5News/status/1838802285423718419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1838802285423718419%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 08:27:53 AM
they paid him and reportedly another school came in and told him they'd give him more to quit now and transfer. These kids are coached on what to say in public. Also reports that it's like Richmond where he was getting what he agreed to then demanded more (UNLV had a bye week last weekend). If either of those are accurate then, yes, he's the bad guy for quitting on his teammates.
https://x.com/PalomaFOX5News/status/1838802285423718419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1838802285423718419%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
Given how he's played this season, I can see him being in high demand. He's been balling.
I remember the good 'ol days when UNLV paid players top dollar
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 08:27:53 AM
they paid him and reportedly another school came in and told him they'd give him more to quit now and transfer. These kids are coached on what to say in public. Also reports that it's like Richmond where he was getting what he agreed to then demanded more (UNLV had a bye week last weekend). If either of those are accurate then, yes, he's the bad guy for quitting on his teammates.
https://x.com/PalomaFOX5News/status/1838802285423718419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1838802285423718419%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
I dont think anything you posted said the school or really the boosters paid/fulfilled their obligation...
So I'll hold my NIL or player outrage for a non-hypothetical.
Wasn't the Richmond story that Sha wanted him to play through an injury and he wouldn't? He missed two games, then was back on a minutes restriction before averaging 35 mpg in the BET and all the NIT games. That's not exactly quitting IMO.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on September 25, 2024, 08:44:09 AM
I dont think anything you posted said the school or really the boosters paid/fulfilled their obligation...
So I'll hold my NIL or player outrage for a non-hypothetical.
Truth is almost certainly somewhere in the middle. UNLV people using local media and friends of the program to deny Sluka's claims to cover their end.
Personally, I'll get the popcorn and watch it all burn
If they were unionized employees subject to a CBA this likely would not have happened.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 08:27:53 AM
they paid him and reportedly another school came in and told him they'd give him more to quit now and transfer. These kids are coached on what to say in public. Also reports that it's like Richmond where he was getting what he agreed to then demanded more (UNLV had a bye week last weekend). If either of those are accurate then, yes, he's the bad guy for quitting on his teammates.
https://x.com/PalomaFOX5News/status/1838802285423718419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1838802285423718419%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
I don't know who's telling the truth, but his post on his reasoning says the exact opposite of this.
I saw a post that said the collective said he would get $100k and had only paid him less than $1000. The truth is, we will never know the truth.
Quote from: MUbiz on September 25, 2024, 09:57:36 AM
I saw a post that said the collective said he would get $100k and had only paid him less than $1000. The truth is, we will never know the truth.
As my old contract law professor would simply say. Get it in writing
@PeteThamel
Former UNLV QB Matthew Sluka's NIL representation, Marcus Cromartie of Equity Sports, told ESPN that Sluka was verbally promised a minimum of $100,000 from a UNLV assistant coach for transferring there. None of that money was paid, per Cormartie.
Once Sluka enrolled there, there was no effort by the UNLV's collective to formalize a contract at that amount. Months after Sluka enrolled and Cormartie made multiple efforts with the staff and school to address the issue.
He said the school and collective came back with a contract of $3,000 per month for the next four months. That's $88,000 less than what Cromartie said UNLV verbally promised up front.
The only money Sluka has received from UNLV, per Cromartie, is a $3,000 re-location stipend for his move. Cromartie said there was never an ask for more money after UNLV's hot start, only the initial amount he was promised up front.
When that didn't come, he evaluated his options and decided play elsewhere next year. The redshirt will allow him to play a full spring at a new school and develop with a trainer this fall. He enrolled in July at UNLV after graduating from Holy Cross and missed spring.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 25, 2024, 10:19:11 AM
@PeteThamel
Former UNLV QB Matthew Sluka's NIL representation, Marcus Cromartie of Equity Sports, told ESPN that Sluka was verbally promised a minimum of $100,000 from a UNLV assistant coach for transferring there. None of that money was paid, per Cormartie.
Once Sluka enrolled there, there was no effort by the UNLV's collective to formalize a contract at that amount. Months after Sluka enrolled and Cormartie made multiple efforts with the staff and school to address the issue.
He said the school and collective came back with a contract of $3,000 per month for the next four months. That's $88,000 less than what Cromartie said UNLV verbally promised up front.
The only money Sluka has received from UNLV, per Cromartie, is a $3,000 re-location stipend for his move. Cromartie said there was never an ask for more money after UNLV's hot start, only the initial amount he was promised up front.
When that didn't come, he evaluated his options and decided play elsewhere next year. The redshirt will allow him to play a full spring at a new school and develop with a trainer this fall. He enrolled in July at UNLV after graduating from Holy Cross and missed spring.
Marcus Cromartie should know better. It could be as simple as having a personal services contract, making his client appear for 30 minutes before each UNLV home game, paing him 20K per appearance.
Dangit. What player can I be faux outraged at for not playing because of money next, then?
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 25, 2024, 10:26:50 AM
Marcus Cromartie should know better. It could be as simple as having a personal services contract, making his client appear for 30 minutes before each UNLV home game, paing him 20K per appearance.
He's a former Badger. What did you expect?
Are redshirt rules different in football where you can play a couple games and then still redshirt?
Quote from: Litehouse on September 25, 2024, 11:52:10 AM
Are redshirt rules different in football where you can play a couple games and then still redshirt?
Yes. Thought it was 4 games.
Quote from: Litehouse on September 25, 2024, 11:52:10 AM
Are redshirt rules different in football where you can play a couple games and then still redshirt?
yes, can play up to four regular season games and still use a redshirt
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on September 25, 2024, 08:27:53 AM
they paid him and reportedly another school came in and told him they'd give him more to quit now and transfer. These kids are coached on what to say in public. Also reports that it's like Richmond where he was getting what he agreed to then demanded more (UNLV had a bye week last weekend). If either of those are accurate then, yes, he's the bad guy for quitting on his teammates.
https://x.com/PalomaFOX5News/status/1838802285423718419?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1838802285423718419%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
So we have a statement from the player saying the school didn't follow through. We have no statement from the school denying it. But a tweet saying he's been approached with bigger offers by other schools to transfer....which he can't do until after this season anyway...somehow proves that the school did follow through?
Maybe you're correct, but you've provided no evidence that you are.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 25, 2024, 10:19:11 AM
@PeteThamel
Former UNLV QB Matthew Sluka's NIL representation, Marcus Cromartie of Equity Sports, told ESPN that Sluka was verbally promised a minimum of $100,000 from a UNLV assistant coach for transferring there. None of that money was paid, per Cormartie.
Once Sluka enrolled there, there was no effort by the UNLV's collective to formalize a contract at that amount. Months after Sluka enrolled and Cormartie made multiple efforts with the staff and school to address the issue.
He said the school and collective came back with a contract of $3,000 per month for the next four months. That's $88,000 less than what Cromartie said UNLV verbally promised up front.
The only money Sluka has received from UNLV, per Cromartie, is a $3,000 re-location stipend for his move. Cromartie said there was never an ask for more money after UNLV's hot start, only the initial amount he was promised up front.
When that didn't come, he evaluated his options and decided play elsewhere next year. The redshirt will allow him to play a full spring at a new school and develop with a trainer this fall. He enrolled in July at UNLV after graduating from Holy Cross and missed spring.
If this is true (and I have no idea if it is) then of course the player stopped playing. Not a single one of us would continue to work for a company that paid us 12% of what they offered.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 25, 2024, 10:02:48 AM
As my old contract law professor would simply say. Get it in writing
And now the agent says nothing was signed: https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1838987906653765990
You are right lawdog - always get something in writing
Quote from: MUbiz on September 25, 2024, 02:32:32 PM
And now the agent says nothing was signed: https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1838987906653765990
You are right lawdog - always get something in writing
This is exactly why schools should be allowed to promise NIL as part of recruitment and coordinate with collectives.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 25, 2024, 04:57:09 PM
This is exactly why schools should be allowed to promise NIL as part of recruitment and coordinate with collectives.
No, because that's an offer of employment which, over and beyond the NCAA bylaws, run afoul of guidelines at many universities relative to human resources.
Quote from: DFW HOYA on September 25, 2024, 05:59:32 PM
No, because that's an offer of employment which, over and beyond the NCAA bylaws, run afoul of guidelines at many universities relative to human resources.
What "guidelines" would prevent it with a bylaw change?
Quote from: MUbiz on September 25, 2024, 02:32:32 PM
And now the agent says nothing was signed: https://x.com/RossDellenger/status/1838987906653765990
You are right lawdog - always get something in writing
When the Nigerian prince offered me the 10,000,000 I insisted he put it in writing.
The old line about verbal agreements being worth the paper they are printed on seems to apply here.
What does this do for the next high profile recruit/transfer UNLV goes after?
Quote from: tower912 on September 25, 2024, 07:53:09 PM
The old line about verbal agreements being worth the paper they are printed on seems to apply here.
What does this do for the next high profile recruit/transfer UNLV goes after?
exactly
Right. An assistant coach isn't exactly a Nigerian prince. He's a representative for the school. Should he have gotten it in writing? Yes, no doubt. But still UNLV isn't denying a verbal promise was made.
And again, this could have all been so much easier, and likely cheaper, had the NCAA and its members not fought it at every turn.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 25, 2024, 12:09:29 PM
If this is true (and I have no idea if it is) then of course the player stopped playing. Not a single one of us would continue to work for a company that paid us 12% of what they offered.
So it appears that the "company" (the collective) never offered anything. Coaches (who I don't believe are supposed to act in concert with the collective) may have but it's not their "company".
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 08:56:51 AM
So it appears that the "company" (the collective) never offered anything. Coaches (who I don't believe are supposed to act in concert with the collective) may have but it's not their "company".
I don't really care about a semantical critique of a metaphor. If you want to pretend that coaches and collectives don't work together that's your business. If a coach, aka the players future boss, says come play for me and you'll get paid $100K, and then the player is only given $12K, the player is justified in transferring. End of story.
If the players version is true (and I have no idea if it is) then the coach is at fault and the player it's doing what any logical person would do in this situation
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 26, 2024, 09:31:34 AM
I don't really care about a semantical critique of a metaphor. If you want to pretend that coaches and collectives don't work together that's your business. If a coach, aka the players future boss, says come play for me and you'll get paid $100K, and then the player is only given $12K, the player is justified in transferring. End of story.
If the players version is true (and I have no idea if it is) then the coach is at fault and the player it's doing what any logical person would do in this situation
I'm not trying to "pretend" anything. Of course a coach shouldn't verbally offer something he can't deliver on - but isn't it the job of the collective ((not a coach) to negotiate NIL? And shouldn't there be a written agreement?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 12:34:10 PM
I'm not trying to "pretend" anything. Of course a coach shouldn't verbally offer something he can't deliver on - but isn't it the job of the collective ((not a coach) to negotiate NIL? And shouldn't there be a written agreement?
Clearly there should be a written agreement. But a college coach should not be telling a student something verbally that he has no authority to back up. I would even classify it as a fire-able offense.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 12:59:27 PM
Clearly there should be a written agreement. But a college coach should not be telling a student something verbally that he has no authority to back up. I would even classify it as a fire-able offense.
Especially when failing to deliver on that promise costs your team its starting QB three games into the season.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 12:34:10 PM
I'm not trying to "pretend" anything. Of course a coach shouldn't verbally offer something he can't deliver on - but isn't it the job of the collective ((not a coach) to negotiate NIL? And shouldn't there be a written agreement?
It sounds like we agree that (assuming their version is actually true) the player is justified in transferring.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on September 26, 2024, 02:08:47 PM
It sounds like we agree that (assuming their version is actually true) the player is justified in transferring.
Totally
I just don't understand how UNLV could let this unfold the way it did. Even if the player is 100% lying, and went to the coach and said he got a 100K offer somewhere else and needed it matched in order to stay, how do you not find a way to come up with that money?
You're 3-0 with two true road win. Your toughest remaining games are Syracuse and Boise St, both of which are at home. You're considered a real contender to make the CFP, and you couldn't scrape together the money to pay your best player?
This is not like the millions of dollars that kid from Miami was supposedly offered and then rescinded. 100K is literally a drop in the ocean, even for a Mountain West level program.
Sure you can say that it sets a bad precedence and your backups might be able to get the job done, but man, it sure seems like potentially flushing what could have been an all time season for a program that hasn't won a bowl game in 2+ decades.
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 02:27:57 PM
I just don't understand how UNLV could let this unfold the way it did. Even if the player is 100% lying, and went to the coach and said he got a 100K offer somewhere else and needed it matched in order to stay, how do you not find a way to come up with that money?
You're 3-0 with two true road win. Your toughest remaining games are Syracuse and Boise St, both of which are at home. You're considered a real contender to make the CFP, and you couldn't scrape together the money to pay your best player?
This is not like the millions of dollars that kid from Miami was supposedly offered and then rescinded. 100K is literally a drop in the ocean, even for a Mountain West level program.
Sure you can say that it sets a bad precedence and your backups might be able to get the job done, but man, it sure seems like potentially flushing what could have been an all time season for a program that hasn't won a bowl game in 2+ decades.
Seriously, they could have gone to the Raiders and asked for the money. A good UNLV team puts more people in their stadium, which means more revenues for the Raiders. The team already has contributed $1 million to the NIL fund. I'm sure Mark Davis could come up with $100K (I mean, think of all the money he saves on his PF Chang's frequent diner rewards).
I believe all UNLV players get paid the same amount NIL wise - and if that is the case, I can see why the coach would not match the new offer.
I'm told these players are slaves. Just bust out the whip and get back to work.
Quote from: MUbiz on September 26, 2024, 02:39:49 PM
I believe all UNLV players get paid the same amount NIL wise - and if that is the case, I can see why the coach would not match the new offer.
Sorry, I don't think you can just put the toothpaste back in the tube like that.
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 02:27:57 PM
I just don't understand how UNLV could let this unfold the way it did. Even if the player is 100% lying, and went to the coach and said he got a 100K offer somewhere else and needed it matched in order to stay, how do you not find a way to come up with that money?
If the player is 100% lying and trying to blackmail the program because they're 3-0 you think UNLV should cave to his demands? I'm all for players being able to negotiate but renegotiating mid season is a very bad precedent.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 03:48:48 PM
If the player is 100% lying and trying to blackmail the program because they're 3-0 you think UNLV should cave to his demands? I'm all for players being able to negotiate but renegotiating mid season is a very bad precedent.
If his demands were 100K? Absolutely.
How much did they get paid to go to Houston? Kansas? What's the potential payout for making the CFP (certainly wouldn't have been a given), even if its just to get curb stomped by Georgia?
What? So you think that if he is lying, and was never promised $100,000, that they should just cave to his demand anyway because they may make the College Football Playoff?
That's an insane take really. That is an absolutely terrible way to do business.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 03:56:59 PM
What? So you think that if he is lying, and was never promised $100,000, that they should just cave to his demand anyway because they may make the College Football Playoff?
That's an insane take really. That is an absolutely terrible way to do business.
Again, how much did the program get paid to go to Houston. How much did the program get paid to go to Kansas? How many additional tickets have they sold to their future games because people want to see winning CFP potential teams? If he had asked for 1 mil, I probably would have told him to pack his bags, but 100K isn't that much relatively speaking.
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 04:00:20 PM
Again, how much did the program get paid to go to Houston. How much did the program get paid to go to Kansas? How many additional tickets have they sold to their future games because people want to see winning CFP potential teams? If he had asked for 1 mil, I probably would have told him to pack his bags, but 100K isn't that much relatively speaking.
So if the blackmail amount is reasonable ignore the fact that it's blackmail? No way.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 04:04:34 PM
So if the blackmail amount is reasonable ignore the fact that it's blackmail? No way.
I guess we'll see how it works out for UNLV. I can think of plenty of programs that would have cut the check though. Blackmail or not.
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 04:00:20 PM
Again, how much did the program get paid to go to Houston. How much did the program get paid to go to Kansas? How many additional tickets have they sold to their future games because people want to see winning CFP potential teams? If he had asked for 1 mil, I probably would have told him to pack his bags, but 100K isn't that much relatively speaking.
I have no idea how much they made, and it really doesn't matter. Three game in, with A LOT of football left to play, and you want to reward a player who wants to renegotiate his NIL agreement under threat of transfer?
How does that play with the other players in the locker room? What if the entire offensive line then does the same thing?
My guess is saying "goodbye" and letting his back up run the show will have a much better long-term impact on the team than caving.
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 04:07:02 PM
I guess we'll see how it works out for UNLV. I can think of plenty of programs that would have cut the check though. Blackmail or not.
(https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/10a3b0f9fc9696d4b0a9e83c6c4dae8cae0f4444633578e3657a358f3ebd868a_1.jpg)
Since I am not privvy to the facts, If his team is actually good,and if he is actually good, his agent should be able to get him legitimate NIL deals.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 04:07:16 PM
I have no idea how much they made, and it really doesn't matter. Three game in, with A LOT of football left to play, and you want to reward a player who wants to renegotiate his NIL agreement under threat of transfer?
How does that play with the other players in the locker room? What if the entire offensive line then does the same thing?
My guess is saying "goodbye" and letting his back up run the show will have a much better long-term impact on the team than caving.
Well we're talking hypotheticals here so our differing opinions on long term impact are just that, opinions.
If I were in charge of the UNLV collective though, I would have found a way to make it work, and probably would have gotten something in writing that he couldn't disclose what his bonus was to his teammates.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on September 26, 2024, 04:09:21 PM
(https://imgb.ifunny.co/images/10a3b0f9fc9696d4b0a9e83c6c4dae8cae0f4444633578e3657a358f3ebd868a_1.jpg)
I take it you disagree?
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 04:13:06 PM
I take it you disagree?
I do, and it would be foolish of any team to acquiesce to blackmail. Establishing written agreements prior to arriving on campus would be what any reasonable school should do.
In this particular circumstance the school has two options.
1. Deny there was ever a deal (they should be doing this, but my guess is they knew there was a deal and there are reciepts)
2. Fire the coach and admit the mistake and establish that all deals will require paperwork from now on to prevent the same thing from happening ever again.
What they're doing now is the worst thing they could be doing. Player has walked, they have no narrative control, nor have they acknowledged that the policy should change. UNLV could not be handling this worse.
I think you are underestimating the amount of money people are willing to spend in order to win, regardless of the circumstances.
Viper was spot on per the Juxtaposition thread. Let's revisit...
( Just wait, soon you'll have college players holding out because they decide the $ isn't enough, or, the deposit is late, or the endorsement didn't come thru as planned. We play at UConn on Saturday, Billy. You ready? Well, I'm not happy with my NIL. I'm over performing. So, probably won't play this one. Me and Johnny sitting out the 'Nova game too...although Coach is making some phone calls, so we'll see.
You think that's far fetched? )
Well stated, Viper! Viper, I agree with you.
Quote from: Viper on September 26, 2024, 05:57:30 PM
Viper was spot on per the Juxtaposition thread. Let's revisit...
( Just wait, soon you'll have college players holding out because they decide the $ isn't enough, or, the deposit is late, or the endorsement didn't come thru as planned. We play at UConn on Saturday, Billy. You ready? Well, I'm not happy with my NIL. I'm over performing. So, probably won't play this one. Me and Johnny sitting out the 'Nova game too...although Coach is making some phone calls, so we'll see.
You think that's far fetched? )
Well stated, Viper! Viper, I agree with you.
They should hold out if they don't get what was agreed to. I'd feel bad for the programs but they're the ones who let it get to this point, not the athletes. This should have been taken care of decades ago but they thought they could hide behind shamateurism. Too bad, so sad.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 26, 2024, 06:12:42 PM
They should hold out if they don't get what was agreed to. I'd feel bad for the programs but they're the ones who let it get to this point, not the athletes. This should have been taken care of decades ago but they thought they could hide behind shamateurism. Too bad, so sad.
I think everyone (Viper included) would agree that if the NIL collectives don't deliver what they promised that athletes should walk away.
But there's another side of that coin, the yeah I agreed to 100k but I'm playing better than that. Let's renegotiate or I'm out. That's what Viper is talking about.
Maybe players as employees and collective bargaining agreements are the only feasible future.
Quote from: Its DJOver on September 26, 2024, 05:55:48 PM
I think you are underestimating the amount of money people are willing to spend in order to win, regardless of the circumstances.
I think you vastly underestimate how many people would cave in this situation. Do you think if Tyler Kolek pulled this off last year that Marquette would have caved? Not a chance.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 06:29:38 PM
I think everyone (Viper included) would agree that if the NIL collectives don't deliver what they promised that athletes should walk away.
But there's another side of that coin, the yeah I agreed to 100k but I'm playing better than that. Let's renegotiate or I'm out. That's what Viper is talking about.
Maybe players as employees and collective bargaining agreements are the only feasible future.
I know what Viper is talking about, but it doesn't seem at all like that's what happened here. UNLV and it's collective are hiding behind very formal and legal language here. A second player has now how left using similar language to what Slutska was saying - and UNLV isn't denying any of this.
I agree that making them unionized employees with a CBA would help to solve these things. But the NCAA allowing the institutions to work with a designated NIL entity to recruit and compensate players as independent contractors would also be a positive step. But like everything the NCAA does, they aren't being proactive at all. They are being dragged into making common sense solutions that help protect the student athletes. Because right now coaches can make all sorts of promises that apparently NIL collectives don't have to fill - and that's a problem.
Instead you have them saying stuff like "his agent wasn't registered." GMAFB.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 07:09:25 PM
I think you vastly underestimate how many people would cave in this situation. Do you think if Tyler Kolek pulled this off last year that Marquette would have caved? Not a chance.
I feel comfortable saying that Marquette wouldn't have. I think there are very few basketball programs where it could be pulled off. Football on the other hand is a different beast. More money. More desperation to win. Far crazier fan bases.
Casino offered UNLV $100K to pay Sluka. School passed, saying it's too late.
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/unlv/unlv-football/unlv-rejected-casino-moguls-offer-to-pay-matthew-sluka-100k-3177877/?utm_campaign=widget&utm_medium=topnews&utm_source=sports&utm_term=UNLV%20rejected%20casino%20mogul%E2%80%99s%20offer%20to%20pay%20Matthew%20Sluka%20%24100K
I'm still fixated on the fact that Sluka's "agent" couldn't get the star quarterback on an undefeated team, in Vegas, an NIL deal
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 05:42:10 AM
I'm still fixated on the fact that Sluka's "agent" couldn't get the star quarterback on an undefeated team, in Vegas, an NIL deal
Do you think the starting quarterback of a 3-0, poorly supported team has offers rolling in or something?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 06:22:55 AM
Do you think the starting quarterback of a 3-0, poorly supported team has offers rolling in or something?
That is what the agent's job is.
My point is that he is a transfer, Group of 5 quarterback of a team that hadn't even started the season a month ago and drew 24,000 in its only home game. You are implying the agent wasn't able to secure anything for him. I am stating that there likely isn't much of a market for guys like that - especially in a pro sports city like Vegas.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 06:46:22 AM
My point is that he is a transfer, Group of 5 quarterback of a team that hadn't even started the season a month ago and drew 24,000 in its only home game. You are implying the agent wasn't able to secure anything for him. I am stating that there likely isn't much of a market for guys like that - especially in a pro sports city like Vegas.
I would argue there is, there is a ton of money in Vegas. You don't think the starting quarterback of a ranked team could get 100K in NIL? One of the casinos already offered it, but apparently was too late. The Friends of UNLV was giving away a chance at 100K for a halfcourt shot during at a basketball this season.
Here's UNLV's statement:
The UNLV administration issued a statement in response to the situation involving Sluka, alleging that the quarterback made financial demands in order to continue taking the field for the Rebels.
"Football player Matthew Sluka's representative made financial demands upon the University and its NIL collective in order to continue playing. UNLV Athletics interpreted these demands as a violation of the NCAA pay-for-play rules, as well as Nevada state law. UNLV does not engage in such activity, nor does it respond to implied threats. UNLV has honored all previously agreed-upon scholarships for Matthew Sluka," the school said Chris Vannini of The Athletic.
The UNLV NIL Collective also issued a statement in which it stated that it had never formally made an NIL offer to the quarterback.
"To clarify, there were no formal NIL offers made during Mr. Sluka's recruitment process. Additionally, Friends of UNLV did not finalize or agree to any NIL offers whlie he was part of the team, aside from a completed community engagement event over the summer.
"At Blueprint Sports and Friends of UNLV, we take our commitments very seriously. We would like to emphasize that we have upheld all Friends of UNLV contracts this season, and have not defaulted on any agreements with Mr. Sluka. Our commitment to supporting Rebel student-athletes remains unwavering, and we are dedicated to maintaining the integrity of our programs," the statement read, via Pete Nakos of On3.
Yes. A clear and well crafted statement that likely is completely true.
Yet it doesn't refute at all the reported reasons why he left the team - that he was promised something by a member (or members) of the coaching staff that never materialized.
So sure, there is nice formal language about UNLV and the sanctity of NCAA regulations (lol) and that the collective never "formally" made an offer to the player, but UNLV does not deny Slutska's central claim. But I do understand why, as a lawyer, you think that is a wonderful statement.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 07:08:22 AM
Yes. A clear and well crafted statement that likely is completely true.
Yet it doesn't refute at all the reported reasons why he left the team - that he was promised something by a member (or members) of the coaching staff that never materialized.
So sure, there is nice formal language about UNLV and the sanctity of NCAA regulations (lol) and that the collective never "formally" made an offer to the player, but UNLV does not deny Slutska's central claim. But I do understand why, as a lawyer, you think that is a wonderful statement.
NCAA regulations 😂😂😂😂😂
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 07:08:22 AM
Yes. A clear and well crafted statement that likely is completely true.
Yet it doesn't refute at all the reported reasons why he left the team - that he was promised something by a member (or members) of the coaching staff that never materialized.
So sure, there is nice formal language about UNLV and the sanctity of NCAA regulations (lol) and that the collective never "formally" made an offer to the player, but UNLV does not deny Slutska's central claim. But I do understand why, as a lawyer, you think that is a wonderful statement.
Guy is a Holy Cross grad, he has an agent, and he should know there are pay to play laws in Nevada (I couldn't care less if there was an NCAA "regulation"). The term is unclean hands. If he really wanted true NIL money, he and his agent should have dealt with the NIL directly and set up a true NIL engagement. Honestly, I don't feel bad for either side.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 07:23:39 AM
Guy is a Holy Cross grad, he has an agent, and he should know there are pay to play laws in Nevada (I couldn't care less if there was an NCAA "regulation"). The term is unclean hands. If he really wanted true NIL money, he and his agent should have dealt with the NIL directly and set up a true NIL engagement. Honestly, I don't feel bad for either side.
You can make a fine legal defense for UNLV's actions. But if a coach made a promise in return for the player's services, and the program he represents then reneged on that promise, then the player has every right to walk away and refuse to provide his services, without being labeled a villain.
The "we didn't put it in writing" argument may work in a court of law ... though, as I'm sure you know, oral contracts also can be binding. But that argument doesn't make UNLV any less of the bad guy here and it definitely isn't going to impress future recruiting targets.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 07:45:27 AM
You can make a fine legal defense for UNLV's actions. But if a coach made a promise in return for the player's services, and the program he represents then reneged on that promise, then the player has every right to walk away and refuse to provide his services, without being labeled a villain.
The "we didn't put it in writing" argument may work in a court of law ... though, as I'm sure you know, oral contracts also can be binding. But that argument doesn't make UNLV any less of the bad guy here and it definitely isn't going to impress future recruiting targets.
Exactly.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 07:45:27 AM
You can make a fine legal defense for UNLV's actions. But if a coach made a promise in return for the player's services, and the program he represents then reneged on that promise, then the player has every right to walk away and refuse to provide his services, without being labeled a villain.
The "we didn't put it in writing" argument may work in a court of law ... though, as I'm sure you know, oral contracts also can be binding. But that argument doesn't make UNLV any less of the bad guy here and it definitely isn't going to impress future recruiting targets.
Neither side is innocent here. Pay to play is not legal in Nevada, I believe. The Holy Cross grad, and his agent should have known this. Both sides were shady. The simplest solution would have been to get a written personal services agreement. I believe the coach will be the fall guy, but I am assuming those higher up at UNLV knew this has been going on.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 07:01:46 AM
I would argue there is, there is a ton of money in Vegas. You don't think the starting quarterback of a ranked team could get 100K in NIL? One of the casinos already offered it, but apparently was too late. The Friends of UNLV was giving away a chance at 100K for a halfcourt shot during at a basketball this season.
Yep, they're not an SEC team team or anything, but acting like they're the little sisters of the poor FCS team is not true. Odom is the highest paid coach in the Mountain West, the money would have been there had they wanted to find it. Choosing not to pay and not having the ability to pay are two different things. This seems to be the former.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 07:59:38 AM
Neither side is innocent here. Pay to play is not legal in Nevada, I believe. The Holy Cross grad, and his agent should have known this. Both sides were shady. The simplest solution would have been to get a written personal services agreement. I believe the coach will be the fall guy, but I am assuming those higher up at UNLV knew this has been going on.
Not sure what being a Holy Cross grad has to do with anything. He was reportedly extended what he thought was a good faith offer. The offer was never finalized. He knew that he had the ability to redshirt so he "demanded" that they make good on their verbal offer.
This isn't a "pay for play" issue. They are using that reason to not follow through on what the coach said. The lawyer in you thinks this is well crafted and sound. And this is why people really don't like lawyers or the NCAA.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 08:31:19 AM
Not sure what being a Holy Cross grad has to do with anything. He was reportedly extended what he thought was a good faith offer. The offer was never finalized. He knew that he had the ability to redshirt so he "demanded" that they make good on their verbal offer.
This isn't a "pay for play" issue. They are using that reason to not follow through on what the coach said. The lawyer in you thinks this is well crafted and sound. And this is why people really don't like lawyers or the NCAA.
It's not some 17 year old kid. He, and his agent should know the rules. This is a 100% pay for play. He had a community engagment in the summer, in which he was paid.
Do you think Sluka thought the coach offered him 100K just to come to the school? The school is stating no formal offers for NIL were made.
My point is that it sounds like both sides were breaking the rules.
Oh, and people really like lawyers when they need one. Just like dentists.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 08:36:45 AM
It's not some 17 year old kid. He, and his agent should know the rules. This is a 100% pay for play. He had a community engagment in the summer, in which he was paid.
Do you think Sluka thought the coach offered him 100K just to come to the school? The school is stating no formal offers for NIL were made.
"Formal." Another good lawyerly cover.
Let's just hope that the NIL situation doesn't devolve to the point that we're blessed with yet another union.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 26, 2024, 06:29:38 PM
I think everyone (Viper included) would agree that if the NIL collectives don't deliver what they promised that athletes should walk away.
But there's another side of that coin, the yeah I agreed to 100k but I'm playing better than that. Let's renegotiate or I'm out. That's what Viper is talking about.
Maybe players as employees and collective bargaining agreements are the only feasible future.
100%
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on September 27, 2024, 08:57:33 AM
Let's just hope that the NIL situation doesn't devolve to the point that we're blessed with yet another union.
...also 100%
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 07:01:46 AM
The Friends of UNLV was giving away a chance at 100K for a halfcourt shot during at a basketball this season.
I agree with you lawdog - but the halfcourt shot was probably insured for pennies on the dollar by a specialty insurance company. There is a near zero chance they actually put up their own money.
I get hole in one insurance for a golf outing I am part of every year. Same concept.
Quote from: Viper on September 27, 2024, 09:25:36 AM
...also 100%
Why? Without one and a collectively bargained deal in place, you'll be sad a lot over mean players looking for market value and sitting out ☹️
You also don't get salary caps without a union.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 27, 2024, 09:37:54 AM
Why? Without one and a collectively bargained deal in place, you'll be sad a lot over mean players looking for market value and sitting out ☹️
He's just another temporarily embarrassed millionaire.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 08:36:45 AM
It's not some 17 year old kid. He, and his agent should know the rules. This is a 100% pay for play. He had a community engagment in the summer, in which he was paid.
Do you think Sluka thought the coach offered him 100K just to come to the school? The school is stating no formal offers for NIL were made.
My point is that it sounds like both sides were breaking the rules.
Oh, and people really like lawyers when they need one. Just like dentists.
You have to either willfully ignore what the Slukas and their reps are saying or believe them liars to argue this was "100% pay for play."
According to Sluka's father, UNLV OC Brennan Marion directly offered him
NIL payments, but was told at the time to work through his agent. The agent says Marion then offered the same, but because Sluka was still enrolled/finishing his degree at Holy Cross, he could not yet sign a contract with the collective. When he arrived in campus in August and asked for what was promised, the school and collective essentially ghosted them.
If you want to argue that Sluka and his reps were unwise and/or naive to show up on campus and begin playing without the written deal, that's fair. But that doesn't change the fact that, at least according to their account, they were lied to. Promises of NIL money - not "pay for play" - were made and those promises were not fulfilled. When the Slukas tried for weeks to address the situation, they were given the runaround. And that's on UNLV and the program, not Sluka.
https://apnews.com/article/unlv-sluka-59449174adffe0940266427158d964d3
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 09:42:18 AM
You have to either willfully ignore what the Slukas and their reps are saying or believe them liars to argue this was "100% pay for play."
According to Sluka's father, UNLV OC Brennan Marion directly offered him NIL payments, but was told at the time to work through his agent. The agent says Marion then offered the same, but because Sluka was still enrolled/finishing his degree at Holy Cross, he could not yet sign a contract with the collective. When he arrived in campus in August and asked for what was promised, the school and collective essentially ghosted them.
If you want to argue that Sluka and his reps were unwise and/or naive to show up on campus and begin playing without the written deal, that's fair. But that doesn't change the fact that, at least according to their account, they were lied to. Promises of NIL money - not "pay for play" - were made and those promises were not fulfilled. When the Slukas tried for weeks to address the situation, they were given the runaround. And that's on UNLV and the program, not Sluka.
https://apnews.com/article/unlv-sluka-59449174adffe0940266427158d964d3
It's malpractice by Cromartie. Unless I am missing there, nowhere in that article does it state that Cromartie and the Collective had a deal for 100K. Sluka received his degree in May, so he could have enrolled after that, but didn't join the team until August.
How'd that call from Cromartie to the collective go?In June, July, or August?
Cromartie: Hey collective, the OC offered my guy 100K? What does he have to do to earn that 100K? (it is Vegas after all)
Looks like he did not even mention the 100K
If he did, the collective would have said: We don't pay until he is enrolled. You better enroll your guy. You need to get licensed as well, since we cannot deal with you until then. Once you are licensed, we can go over what sort of service agreements we can line up.
So, was the 100K directly offered to Sluka? No. Just NIL payments, or did the OC and Cromartie have a talk , basically amounting to puffery.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 10:16:18 AM
It's malpractice by Cromartie. Unless I am missing there, nowhere in that article does it state that Cromartie and the Collective had a deal for 100K.
You seem really hung up on something that's ultimately irrelevant. Maybe it was malpractice by Cromartie. That doesn't mitigate the wrongdoing here by the UNLV program.
The person who falls for the Nigerian prince scam is a dope. That victim's dopiness doesn't exonerate the scammers, though.
Your argument here is that the burglar is innocent because the homeowner should have known to lock the doors.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 10:55:46 AM
You seem really hung up on something that's ultimately irrelevant. Maybe it was malpractice by Cromartie. That doesn't mitigate the wrongdoing here by the UNLV program.
The person who falls for the Nigerian prince scam is a dope. That victim's dopiness doesn't exonerate the scammers, though.
Your argument here is that the burglar is innocent because the homeowner should have known to lock the doors.
I would argue that is the most relevant piece. If the school tells the agent to deal with the collective, and the collective tells the agent two things-get enrolled in school, and get licensed, but the agent doesn't do one, and the other waits until August?
Seems to me the conversation probably went like this:
Cromartie: on the recruiting visit, you mentioned NIL's, how much can you get my guy
OC: Oh, we could probably get your guy about 100K in deals, but you have to deal with the collective
Cromartie talks to the collective and fails to even qualify to have a conversation with them
See if Sluka gets enrolled in June, and his agent gets licensed then. The details about how much in NIL is there can be ironed out well before the season. Did the agen tell Sluka he needs to be enrolled before the collective will set up deals? If not, that's malpractice. If so, part of the blame does fall on Sluka.
Yeah. I'm sure no student athletes know what they should expect to make in NIL deals from a collective until they're enrolled at that schol. ::)
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 11:06:38 AM
I would argue that is the most relevant piece. If the school tells the agent to deal with the collective, and the collective tells the agent two things-get enrolled in school, and get licensed, but the agent doesn't do one, and the other waits until August?
Seems to me the conversation probably went like this:
Cromartie: on the recruiting visit, you mentioned NIL's, how much can you get my guy
OC: Oh, we could probably get your guy about 100K in deals, but you have to deal with the collective
Cromartie talks to the collective and fails to even qualify to have a conversation with them
See if Sluka gets enrolled in June, and his agent gets licensed then. The details about how much in NIL is there can be ironed out well before the season. Did the agen tell Sluka he needs to be enrolled before the collective will set up deals? If not, that's malpractice. If so, part of the blame does fall on Sluka.
Imagine your defense being "the agent wasn't registered." 😂😂😂
Seriously do you really think that's the problem here?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 12:49:01 PM
Imagine your defense being "the agent wasn't registered." 😂😂😂
Seriously do you really think that's the problem here?
That is a problem. They cannot talk to an unlicensed agent under NCAA rules. So tell me:
Why did Sluka wait until August to show up?
Imagine your defense is:
A coach told me I was going to get 100K from the NIL, but I did not follow up on how, when, or what I had to do to make sure I did not run afoul of state law and NCAA bylaws/
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 01:15:46 PM
That is a problem. They cannot talk to an unlicensed agent under NCAA rules. So tell me:
Why did Sluka wait until August to show up?
Imagine your defense is:
A coach told me I was going to get 100K from the NIL, but I did not follow up on how, when, or what I had to do to make sure I did not run afoul of state law and NCAA bylaws/
Imagine thinking Sluka needs a defense.
That said, according to the Slukas' account, they followed up several times.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 01:24:34 PM
Imagine thinking Sluka needs a defense.
That said, according to the Slukas' account, they followed up several times.
Right. I far as I can tell, the response was never "we have the money you were promised right here, but you're agent isn't licensed."
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 01:24:34 PM
Imagine thinking Sluka needs a defense.
That said, according to the Slukas' account, they followed up several times.
The collective is stating they did not hear from Sluka's agent until August. He agreed to go to UNLV in January, and he graduated in May.
So if someone tells you, we have some NIL $ available, the OC allegedly told the agent it would be around 100K, but you have to go through the collective.
If its me, I get something in writing back in January, or find another school that will get me that. So yeah, the Sluka's are partially at fault.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 01:43:09 PM
The collective is stating they did not hear from Sluka's agent until August. He agreed to go to UNLV in January, and he graduated in May.
So if someone tells you, we have some NIL $ available, the OC allegedly told the agent it would be around 100K, but you have to go through the collective.
If its me, I get something in writing back in January, or find another school that will get me that. So yeah, the Sluka's are partially at fault.
To the extent that they trusted a college football coach, yes, they are at fault
But once more, that doesn't mitigate or excuse the actions of UNLV like you seem to think it does. This isn't some kind of personal injury case where we need to apportion liability.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 27, 2024, 01:45:11 PM
To the extent that they trusted a college football coach, yes, they are at fault
But once more, that doesn't mitigate or excuse the actions of UNLV like you seem to think it does.
Where did I say UNLV isn't at fault? I have specifically said both sides are shady. Again, Sluka's side was told to go through the collective back in December/January. So either Cromartie did not relay that to the family, and instead just told them it would be 100K (which is extremely bad business) or they are conveniently leaving out facts not good for their side. The collective basically told Cromartie to get your stuff in order before we can attempt any deals. Sounds like the collective is actually the one side that is not at fault.
Again, even if the coach does say I can get you 100K. What would you ask? Who, what, where, when, How? If he thought he would just get a nice bag of 100K in small bills, when he showed up min August, he's pretty G-D stupid, and a criminal.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 01:54:14 PM
Where did I say UNLV isn't at fault? I have specifically said both sides are shady. Again, Sluka's side was told to go through the collective back in December/January. So either Cromartie did not relay that to the family, and instead just told them it would be 100K (which is extremely bad business) or they are conveniently leaving out facts not good for their side. The collective basically told Cromartie to get your stuff in order before we can attempt any deals. Sounds like the collective is actually the one side that is not at fault.
Again, even if the coach does say I can get you 100K. What would you ask? Who, what, where, when, How? If he thought he would just get a nice bag of 100K in small bills, when he showed up min August, he's pretty G-D stupid, and a criminal.
Pretty sure he thought he was going to get it from the collective.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 02:52:22 PM
Pretty sure he thought he was going to get it from the collective.
So he knew the who, what about the when, how, where, and what did he have to do to get it?
Quote from: withoutbias on September 27, 2024, 11:09:29 AM
Yeah. I'm sure no student athletes know what they should expect to make in NIL deals from a collective until they're enrolled at that schol. ::)
Correction on this point. The rules changed in April, so you do not need to be enrolled in school to sign a deal with the collective.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 02:55:06 PM
So he knew the who, what about the when, how, where, and what did he have to do to get it?
He probably thought he just had to show up because a coach verbally promised to him. He apparently followed up repeatedly with the coaching staff.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 03:41:14 PM
He probably thought he just had to show up because a coach verbally promised to him. He apparently followed up repeatedly with the coaching staff.
That would be pay for play.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 04:04:05 PM
That would be pay for play.
Uh....no kidding. What do you think is happening out there?
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 04:09:04 PM
Uh....no kidding. What do you think is happening out there?
That is against Nevada law, something Sluka and his agent should know. Once again, both sides are shady, so nobody should feel sorry for either side.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 03:41:14 PM
He probably thought he just had to show up because a coach verbally promised to him. He apparently followed up repeatedly with the coaching staff.
What I have read, there was radio silence from January until August
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 04:10:45 PM
That is against Nevada law, something Sluka and his agent should know.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Either you are insanely naive or insanely dumb.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 08:19:29 PM
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Either you are insanely naive or insanely dumb.
So, you are saying Sluka knew he was breaking the law? Let me get your position straight. The OC told him in December that he would get 100K to come to UNLV. He signs in January and lets the agent take care of everything. He then doesn't say a word until August when he shows up for practice. His check is not there, so he lets his agent do the talking until after the first 2 games? He doesn't get anything in writing, nor does he ask what personal engagements he will need to do to earn his NIL. Pay for play is illegal in Nevada. Unclean hands, simple as that. Both sides.
You keep being you
What I love about this is from what I read is everyone who is "anti NIL" is anti everything that Al was for. And since my dad was a roommate of Allie and a manager of Al for 3 years, a producer of Al's Run and involved in his other businesses, I know that Al would be the most pro NIL coach of all time. I cannot understand how these old timers, who portend to be Marquette guys get off on thinking their (backward) way is the right way. They are 100% going aginst Al. Makes no sense.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 27, 2024, 08:41:29 PM
So, you are saying Sluka knew he was breaking the law? You keep being you
I guess me being me means that I'm not a naive dimwit.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 08:51:03 PM
I guess me being me means that I'm not a naive dimwit.
I am not naive. I am sure this is happening at most schools. The only dimwit here is Sluka for not getting it in writing.
Lawdog, I don't think anyone is arguing that Sluka didn't make a mistake not getting things in writing. But if his version is true, and the school's statement didn't deny that it was, then UNLV messed up and Sluka is justified in seeking a transfer. Sluka may be a rube, but that doesn't mean he should keep playing once he realized that he had been had.
Quote from: The Lens on September 27, 2024, 08:49:27 PM
What I love about this is from what I read is everyone who is "anti NIL" is anti everything that Al was for. And since my dad was a roommate of Allie and a manager of Al for 3 years, a producer of Al's Run and involved in his other businesses, I know that Al would be the most pro NIL coach of all time. I cannot understand how these old timers, who portend to be Marquette guys get off on thinking their (backward) way is the right way. They are 100% going aginst Al. Makes no sense.
Lens
I think the "most pro NIL coach of all time" may be a stretch but you're right that Al always encouraged his players to take care of themselves and their families first. Use basketball, don't let it use you was his motto. For most, that meant using their time at MU to get the degree that meant success once their eligibility ended. For the elite, it sometimes meant leaving early and taking the money.
Pro NIL? Yes, with one caveat. Al was a dictator, and if he saw the money interfering with his unquestioned authority it would have given him pause.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 26, 2024, 07:20:56 PM
. A second player has now how left using similar language to what Slutska was saying -
#Lies
Here's an Al McGuire quote:
"We must graduate people who are not qualified. You must allow certain people who are not qualified to come out of college. Then their children will go to college, and they will become corporate lawyers and neurosurgeons."
If you don't think that guy would want his players getting NIL, you're not being honest with yourself.
Quote from: The Lens on September 28, 2024, 06:52:09 AM
Here's an Al McGuire quote:
"We must graduate people who are not qualified. You must allow certain people who are not qualified to come out of college. Then their children will go to college, and they will become corporate lawyers and neurosurgeons."
If you don't think that guy would want his players getting NIL, you're not being honest with yourself.
Anyone that doesn't think Al would be pro-NIL is living in a fantasyland
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 09:38:44 AM
You also don't get salary caps without a union.
when I championed college amateur athletics...you said pay them. Ok, so...pay them...and yet you want a union and salary caps? Which is it?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 28, 2024, 07:19:42 AM
Anyone that doesn't think Al would be pro-NIL is living in a fantasyland
yes, but as Lenny's Tap said...up to the point where Al's authority is eroded. Current example...Michael Andretti is out of Andretti Autosport...his own and namesake race team!!! Why? Big $ sponsor unhappy with...Michael Andretti. So, Andretti out, or $-man out. Andretti diminished to the point $-man wins. NIL is going to get wild and soon.
btw, could we get AL off the waistband and back on the jersey, please.
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 09:33:26 AM
yes, but as Lenny's Tap said...up to the point where Al's authority is eroded. Current example...Michael Andretti is out of Andretti Autosport...his own and namesake race team!!! Why? Big $ sponsor unhappy with...Michael Andretti. So, Andretti out, or $-man out. Andretti diminished to the point $-man wins. NIL is going to get wild and soon.
btw, could we get AL off the waistband and back on the jersey, please.
What does Andretti sports have to do with Al supporting NIL?
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 09:20:23 AM
when I championed college amateur athletics...you said pay them. Ok, so...pay them...and yet you want a union and salary caps? Which is it?
Both. Assuming a union would agree to a cap, it would collectively bargain something in return.
But amateurism sucks and should have died a long time ago.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 28, 2024, 09:41:21 AM
Both. Assuming a union would agree to a cap, it would collectively bargain something in return.
But amateurism sucks and should have died a long time ago.
You do realize that if there is a salary cap, college athletics is still in a similar situation it is now. Teams "cheating" by having fake NIL deals to lure players to the school.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 28, 2024, 09:35:53 AM
What does Andretti sports have to do with Al supporting NIL?
Andretti lost control. Authority eroded due to $. Al would support NIL to a point, until $ erodes authority. (probably why Saban retired from 'Bama. He saw it coming)
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 28, 2024, 09:41:21 AM
Both. Assuming a union would agree to a cap, it would collectively bargain something in return.
But amateurism sucks and should have died a long time ago.
amateurism sucks is your opinion. That's fine. Not all of us agree.
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 10:09:19 AM
Andretti lost control. Authority eroded due to $. Al would support NIL to a point, until $ erodes authority. (probably why Saban retired from 'Bama. He saw it coming)
Yes, money has never dictated the security of coaches in college athletics. Not a single instance of money influencing whether a coach stays or goes, no sir.
When did Viper go from simply being a poster obsessed with the Badgers to rocket 2.0?
Quote from: wadesworld on September 28, 2024, 10:25:21 AM
When did Viper go from simply being a poster obsessed with the Badgers to rocket 2.0?
Scoop radicalizes people
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 10:11:23 AM
amateurism sucks is your opinion. That's fine. Not all of us agree.
Your opinion sucks.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 28, 2024, 10:03:04 AM
You do realize that if there is a salary cap, college athletics is still in a similar situation it is now. Teams "cheating" by having fake NIL deals to lure players to the school.
NIL collectives can be managed as related institutions and be subject to similar caps.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 28, 2024, 10:48:13 AM
NIL collectives can be managed as related institutions and be subject to similar caps.
That doesnt solve the problem. Caps=room for cheating by paying under the table, so to speak. Youcannot limit how much a personmales in NIL.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 28, 2024, 10:56:07 AM
That doesnt solve the problem. Caps=room for cheating by paying under the table, so to speak. Youcannot limit how much a personmales in NIL.
You can from NIL collectives associated with an institution. There are precedents for those in place now. Outside those...no. And that's fine.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 28, 2024, 10:58:48 AM
You can from NIL collectives associated with an institution. There are precedents for those in place now. Outside those...no. And that's fine.
Again , salary caps will not stop the cheating and paying under the table.Not having a salary cap would. Not having a salary cap would eliminate the need for the collectives. Players would be free to sign their own NIL deals.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 28, 2024, 11:17:08 AM
Again , salary caps will not stop the cheating and paying under the table.Not having a salary cap would. Not having a salary cap would eliminate the need for the collectives. Players would be free to sign their own NIL deals.
Do you have a brain worm or something? Because I have explained repeatedly how it could work for NIL collectives. Yet you keep jabbering on about it being a problem. Outside NIL deals would be unlimited and obviously could be used
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 28, 2024, 11:24:54 AM
Do you have a brain worm or something? Because I have explained repeatedly how it could work for NIL collectives. Yet you keep jabbering on about it being a problem. Outside NIL deals would be unlimited and obviously could be used
You are the one who is not paying attention. If there is cap, there is plenty of room to cheat and pay players under the table.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 28, 2024, 11:33:51 AM
You are the one who is not paying attention. If there is cap, there is plenty of room to cheat and pay players under the table.
By outside entities yes. It wouldn't be cheating. NIL collectives could be managed through the CBA process.
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 10:11:23 AM
amateurism sucks is your opinion. That's fine. Not all of us agree.
Amateurism is great but it's not the only great thing. If you're really an amateurism enthusiast you can go to high school or middle school games. You don't have a god given right to high level athletics performed by amateurs. It's sad in the same sense that it's sad that you don't get paid for being a masseuse to swimwear models.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 28, 2024, 11:45:40 AM
By outside entities yes. It wouldn't be cheating. NIL collectives could be managed through the CBA process.
If there was no cap, there would be no reason for outsiders to pay under the table. NIL opportunities would be true NIL opportunities,and there would be very little need for collectives.
Crean sucks
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 27, 2024, 08:51:03 PM
I guess me being me means that I'm not a naive dimwit.
Why are you so perpetually angry?
Quote from: wadesworld on September 28, 2024, 10:25:21 AM
When did Viper go from simply being a poster obsessed with the Badgers to rocket 2.0?
still obsessed. Lots of Badger hate. December can't get here soon enough.
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 10:09:19 AM
Andretti lost control. Authority eroded due to $. Al would support NIL to a point, until $ erodes authority. (probably why Saban retired from 'Bama. He saw it coming)
Andretti sold off part of it to Towriss who has invested heavily in the team since. It's not like Andretti was tricked into losing Graceland
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 09:33:26 AM
yes, but as Lenny's Tap said...up to the point where Al's authority is eroded. Current example...Michael Andretti is out of Andretti Autosport...his own and namesake race team!!! Why? Big $ sponsor unhappy with...Michael Andretti. So, Andretti out, or $-man out. Andretti diminished to the point $-man wins. NIL is going to get wild and soon.
btw, could we get AL off the waistband and back on the jersey, please.
Al, liked to say he was a dictator on the court but only on the court. He's the same guy who said: I may not not agree with everything the blacks say on campus but it's occured to me that I might be wrong and they may be right.
Quote from: Viper on September 28, 2024, 10:09:19 AM
Andretti lost control. Authority eroded due to $. Al would support NIL to a point, until $ erodes authority. (probably why Saban retired from 'Bama. He saw it coming)
And that's fine. College football doesn't need Nick Saban. College basketball didn't need Al.
But good coaches can manage NIL without it undermining what they need to do.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 30, 2024, 08:40:48 AM
And that's fine. College football doesn't need Nick Saban. College basketball didn't need Al.
But good coaches can manage NIL without it undermining what they need to do.
Listen to Shaka talk about NIL, he's proud that MU pays their guys a very solid "wage" but he says he wants guys who want to be here and don't come for the money. He needs buy in on culture etc. We have guys making significant 6 figure deals who still run hills at St Mary's. You can have both.
Quote from: The Lens on September 30, 2024, 08:47:48 AM
Listen to Shaka talk about NIL, he's proud that MU pays their guys a very solid "wage" but he says he wants guys who want to be here and don't come for the money. He needs buy in on culture etc. We have guys making significant 6 figure deals who still run hills at St Mary's. You can have both.
Right. These are the same arguments that were presented when professional athlete salaries boomed, and they turned out to be unfounded.
In fact, the financial stability that the compensation provides allows them to be even more dedicated to their craft. They don't have to take a second job in the off season to make ends meet, etc.
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 28, 2024, 11:51:05 AM
If there was no cap, there would be no reason for outsiders to pay under the table. NIL opportunities would be true NIL opportunities,and there would be very little need for collectives.
Just trying to understand some people's mindset with this. If I understand your perspective regarding setting rules based on cheating:
if you're spouse cheats on you, it's best to change the rules of your marriage to have an open relationship because that would eliminate the fact they're going behind your back? Since it's inevitable anyway...
Quote from: lawdog77 on September 28, 2024, 11:51:05 AM
If there was no cap, there would be no reason for outsiders to pay under the table. NIL opportunities would be true NIL opportunities,and there would be very little need for collectives.
Right? Rules and regulations are for the weak. Just look how the NFL screwed up with its cap.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 30, 2024, 10:15:15 AM
Right? Rules and regulations are for the weak. Just look how the NFL screwed up with its cap.
The NFL cap controls direct payments from employer to employee (i.e. salaries), not sponsorship opportunities from outside entities. So, it's pretty irrelevant to a discussion about NIL.
That said ...
The cap is a result of collective bargaining between the owners and unionized employees.
The NCAA won't treat the players as employees and has vehemently opposed their efforts to unionize.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 30, 2024, 08:40:48 AM
College basketball didn't need Al.
Excuse me! You must not have been in the streets the night we won the Natty.
We are college basketball. A big part of its history!
Al was our coach who won a Natty.
Therefore, College Basketball needed Al.
We've been in search of the next Al for decades. We hope we have found him!!!!!
Quote from: dgies9156 on September 30, 2024, 01:50:17 PM
Excuse me! You must not have been in the streets the night we won the Natty.
We are college basketball. A big part of its history!
Al was our coach who won a Natty.
Therefore, College Basketball needed Al.
We've been in search of the next Al for decades. We hope we have found him!!!!!
Marquette needed Al.
College basketball got more popular when Al retired. I'm not suggesting that those events are connected at all, but Al was just a coach.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2024, 11:17:23 AM
The NFL cap controls direct payments from employer to employee (i.e. salaries), not sponsorship opportunities from outside entities. So, it's pretty irrelevant to a discussion about NIL.
That said ...
The cap is a result of collective bargaining between the owners and unionized employees.
The NCAA won't treat the players as employees and has vehemently opposed their efforts to unionize.
All in all, it all needs to be changed.
The cap / NIL discussion is not completely irrelevant and since NIL is acting as player's salaries and a driver of FA (transfer portal). But I agree with you further points about unions, and CB, which would render the discussion irrelevant.
Why the NCAA schools don't follow the blueprint of other successful pro-sports is mindboggling.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on September 30, 2024, 02:25:14 PM
All in all, it all needs to be changed.
The cap / NIL discussion is not completely irrelevant and since NIL is acting as player's salaries and a driver of FA (transfer portal). But I agree with you further points about unions, and CB, which would render the discussion irrelevant.
Why the NCAA schools don't follow the blueprint of other successful pro-sports is mindboggling.
Why? I have a couple thoughts on that.
1. They have been dragged kicking and screaming into this model. If they were smarter, they would have seen that this was the inevitable outcome, but were too obsessed with the way they have always done things. People in these situations tend to not be visionary.
2. There are legitimate resource concerns at a lot of schools. G5, lower level ACC and B12 programs, etc. Making the student-athletes employees would be expensive. Not simply because of the straight out salary payments, but payroll taxes, workers comp insurance, health care, etc. If I'm a school like Temple or East Carolina, I have no idea how I would manage and prioritize this.
These are the reasons the B10 and SEC schools are being so proactive here. They have the money to make it work and realize the NCAA is hopeless at this point.
Quote from: dgies9156 on September 30, 2024, 01:50:17 PM
Excuse me! You must not have been in the streets the night we won the Natty.
We are college basketball. A big part of its history!
Al was our coach who won a Natty.
Therefore, College Basketball needed Al.
We've been in search of the next Al for decades. We hope we have found him!!!!!
Shaka is great for MU. But there will never ever never be another Al. NEVER
Quote from: willie warrior on September 30, 2024, 06:27:34 PM
Shaka is great for MU. But there will never ever never be another Al. NEVER
He could be cloned but the woke mob won't let us
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 30, 2024, 01:56:46 PM
Marquette needed Al.
College basketball got more popular when Al retired. I'm not suggesting that those events are connected at all, but Al was just a coach.
Just a coach?
I suppose Jesus was just a god.
The Wright Brothers were just bicycle mechanics.
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were just electronic junkies.
George Washington was just a President?
Al was AL!!!! He's the reason Marquette is more than a local university on the shores of Lake Michigan. He brought us attention, contributions and reputation.
Shake, we hope, will someday be SHAKA!!!!! too!
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on September 30, 2024, 01:56:46 PM
Marquette needed Al.
College basketball got more popular when Al retired. I'm not suggesting that those events are connected at all, but Al was just a coach.
Al 'was just a coach' is your most ignorant statement yet...and that's saying something.
Unbelievable stupidity.
Quote from: Viper on October 01, 2024, 07:47:52 AM
Al 'was just a coach' is your most ignorant statement yet...and that's saying something.
Unbelievable stupidity.
To Marquette he was obviously more than that.
But in the wider world of college basketball, Al McGuire was a coach. A colorful coach, but a coach nevertheless. And like all coaches, the sport keeps going when they are gone.
You started this when you said Nick Saban retired cause he didn't want to coach in this environment. As if that's somehow a detriment to the sport of college football. It isn't. Coaches come and go and the game goes on.
Too often we heap praise on a coach beyond their coaching abilities. You see it with the Coach K commercials where he talks about "leadership" and other nonsense. Dude, you spent 40 years as a basketball coach for 18-22 year olds. Don't make it more than that.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 01, 2024, 07:52:41 AM
To Marquette he was obviously more than that.
But in the wider world of college basketball, Al McGuire was a coach. A colorful coach, but a coach nevertheless. And like all coaches, the sport keeps going when they are gone.
You started this when you said Nick Saban retired cause he didn't want to coach in this environment. As if that's somehow a detriment to the sport of college football. It isn't. Coaches come and go and the game goes on.
Too often we heap praise on a coach beyond their coaching abilities. You see it with the Coach K commercials where he talks about "leadership" and other nonsense. Dude, you spent 40 years as a basketball coach for 18-22 year olds. Don't make it more than that.
Let's not lose track of the key point, Al would have been pro-NIL
Quote from: Uncle Rico on October 01, 2024, 08:05:27 AM
Let's not lose track of the key point, Al would have been pro-NIL
I don't disagree. I think AL had a tipping point re:NIL, but taking care of players I do agree.
Quote from: dgies9156 on September 30, 2024, 08:28:04 PM
Just a coach?
I suppose Jesus was just a god.
The Wright Brothers were just bicycle mechanics.
Bill Gates and Steve Jobs were just electronic junkies.
George Washington was just a President?
Al was AL!!!! He's the reason Marquette is more than a local university on the shores of Lake Michigan. He brought us attention, contributions and reputation.
Shake, we hope, will someday be SHAKA!!!!! too!
Sultan is just a guy with a keyboard.
Quote from: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 01, 2024, 07:52:41 AM
To Marquette he was obviously more than that.
But in the wider world of college basketball, Al McGuire was a coach. A colorful coach, but a coach nevertheless. And like all coaches, the sport keeps going when they are gone.
You started this when you said Nick Saban retired cause he didn't want to coach in this environment. As if that's somehow a detriment to the sport of college football. It isn't. Coaches come and go and the game goes on.
Too often we heap praise on a coach beyond their coaching abilities. You see it with the Coach K commercials where he talks about "leadership" and other nonsense. Dude, you spent 40 years as a basketball coach for 18-22 year olds. Don't make it more than that.
"
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind"
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 27, 2024, 10:08:28 PM
Lens
I think the "most pro NIL coach of all time" may be a stretch but you're right that Al always encouraged his players to take care of themselves and their families first. Use basketball, don't let it use you was his motto. For most, that meant using their time at MU to get the degree that meant success once their eligibility ended. For the elite, it sometimes meant leaving early and taking the money.
Pro NIL? Yes, with one caveat. Al was a dictator, and if he saw the money interfering with his unquestioned authority it would have given him pause.
Accurate.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/43471646/wisconsin-alleges-miami-tampered-xavier-lucas-transfer (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/43471646/wisconsin-alleges-miami-tampered-xavier-lucas-transfer)
Wonder what this case will mean for the future of NIL.
1. It appears some institutions (UW in this case) will force athletes to sign a multi-year contract that is binding, which would not allow any transfers.
If this holds up, we could see some interesting contracts in the future, maybe conditions for playing time etc. eligibility, etc.
2. Will the NCAA punish clear tampering in this case.
Quote from: forgetful on January 18, 2025, 08:39:47 PMhttps://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/43471646/wisconsin-alleges-miami-tampered-xavier-lucas-transfer (https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/43471646/wisconsin-alleges-miami-tampered-xavier-lucas-transfer)
Wonder what this case will mean for the future of NIL.
1. It appears some institutions (UW in this case) will force athletes to sign a multi-year contract that is binding, which would not allow any transfers.
If this holds up, we could see some interesting contracts in the future, maybe conditions for playing time etc. eligibility, etc.
2. Will the NCAA punish clear tampering in this case.
A cautionary tale for players considering Wisky.