Per Goodman: "Wojo was told to shake up his coaching staff and he'd get another year or if he didn't, he'd be dismissed. Wojo refused to do so and was dismissed."
Quote from: DegenerateDish on March 20, 2021, 09:46:18 AM
Per Goodman: "Wojo was told to shake up his coaching staff and he'd get another year or if he didn't, he'd be dismissed. Wojo refused to do so and was dismissed."
Bad look if true.
Bad look for who?
The admin stuck to their guns and told him things need to change.
Wojo stuck to his guns and supported his staff.
I think it's an ok look for both sides.
Quote from: fjm on March 20, 2021, 09:52:18 AM
Bad look for who?
The admin stuck to their guns and told him things need to change.
Wojo stuck to his guns and supported his staff.
I think it's an ok look for both sides.
Agree with all of this. Status quo wasn't going to change anything. Wojo stood by his guys. Time to move on.
Quote from: panda on March 20, 2021, 09:49:27 AM
Bad look if true.
Why? It's probably a good look for both sides ... which likely is why it's being leaked to Goodman.
Not at all surprised at hearing this. It's what I suspected all along and said last week that Presutti and Judson MUST go for providing absolutely nothing to the program. Wojo was just too stubborn to change all the way to the bitter end.
Bad look for Wojo
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 20, 2021, 09:55:17 AM
Not at all surprised at hearing this. It's what I suspected all along and said last week that Presutti and Judson MUST go for providing absolutely nothing to the program. Wojo was just too stubborn to change all the way to the bitter end.
Indeed. I'm stealing this from someone else here years ago but:
* Plan A isn't working. Let's use Plan B.
* Plan B is Plan A but harder.
Probably went like this:
Mu: hey you're a great guy and a good recruiter, but you know very little about in game coaching and x's and o's. We'd like for you to bring on am assistant who would do more of the coaching.
Wojo: my team, my guys, I'm the coach.
Mu: bye.
Quote from: panda on March 20, 2021, 09:55:53 AM
Bad look for Wojo
That he didn't through his assistants under the bus is a bad look?
No.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 09:58:55 AM
That he didn't through his assistants under the bus is a bad look?
No.
Pakuni. Let me first say I've read a lot of threads these last few days. And haven't commented a ton. But your input is always solid, without a tinfoil hat and very appropriate. I appreciate that.
Second I agree. Any future assistant, Wojo can say "I got released from a job because I refused to fire my assistants".
Future assistants will love Wojo for that attitude.
And scholl will be able to say "I don't take any crap. Please work with me and we'll be fine."
I admire Coach Wojo's loyalty but the results weren't there and he had to do something. He didn't do what his superiors ordered and so he's gone. Makes too much sense, since I really still believe they had no intention of firing Wojo until almost yesterday.
I candidly was shocked Marquette pulled the trigger. Wojo was THE guy in so many ways. But as I said earlier in a couple of posts for which I was accused of slurping, the challenge Marquette had was to sell a change for next year. If they kept Wojo, then the change had to be focused on on-thé-court performance. Period. Basically, I suspect the university told him his goal for 2021-2022 was Sweet 16 or else!
Without the Take It Or Leave It Offer Brother Dish alluded to, Wojo and Marquette had no hope for next year. Coach Wojo certainly had talent but the pieces weren't even close to coming together. This has been apparent since Day 1 of his tenure and was extremely evident the year Henry Ellenson played for us.
In Ellenson's case, I don't even want to think about the number of times I was screaming for Wojo to sit the guy down and coach him.... but it never happened.
Regrettably, I'm thinking the Hausers were right. I still can't stand Joey Hauser, whose talent is far less than he thinks it is, but they were right about Wojo (however they communicated it). That's really sad. It took the University a couple more years to figure it out.
Quote from: #UnleashWojo'sbuyout on March 20, 2021, 09:58:14 AM
Probably went like this:
Mu: hey you're a great guy and a good recruiter, but you know very little about in game coaching and x's and o's. We'd like for you to bring on am assistant who would do more of the coaching.
Wojo: my team, my guys, I'm the coach.
Mu: bye.
And you know... good for both sides.
Sucks we paid a buyout. But it was done right.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 09:58:55 AM
That he didn't through his assistants under the bus is a bad look?
No.
"Steve - We're at an impasse here. We need to sell your plan to an angry or otherwise apathetic fan base. Would you be open to bringing in some fresh blood to make it easier optically for you next year and possibly give you a long term future here?"
"Nah I'll just keep spinning the tires"
He's not protecting anyone by doing this. Either way, the assistants are gone so he's not doing some noble deed. He's just being stubborn.
Oh well.
Quote from: panda on March 20, 2021, 10:04:32 AM
"Steve - We're at an impasse here. We need to sell your plan to an angry or otherwise apathetic fan base. Would you be open to bringing in some fresh blood to make it easier optically for you next year and possibly give you a long term future here?"
"Nah I'll just keep spinning the tires"
He's not protecting anyone by doing this. Either way, the assistants are gone so he's not doing some noble deed. He's just being stubborn.
Oh well.
Yes, I'm sure that's
exactly how the conversation occurred.
Noon time pickup games were more important than actual games
How does Wojo not read the room? How is MU satisfied until now?
I was told that in the "big meeting," Wojo thought the team was doing fine, the results were fine during his tenure, and zero changes were needed (in any respect). How could he think zero NCAA tourney wins in 7 yrs is OK?
Was also told that Wojo became super PO'd because MU had seemed satisfied with his results and had never given him any sense there was any concern. From his POV, just the mere questioning now was a blindside.
I'm glad he's gone, but I have zero confidence MU will hire the kind of coach needed to resurrect the program.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 20, 2021, 10:07:02 AM
How does Wojo not read the room? How is MU satisfied until now?
I was told that in the "big meeting," Wojo thought the team was doing fine, the results were fine during his tenure, and zero changes were needed (in any respect). How could he think zero NCAA tourney wins in 7 yrs is OK?
Was also told that Wojo became super PO'd because MU had seemed satisfied with his results and had never given him any sense there was any concern. From his POV, just the mere questioning now was a blindside.
I'm glad he's gone, but I have zero confidence MU will hire the kind of coach needed to resurrect the program.
WTF???????
If this really happened, a Duke education ranks somewhere below that of my Madison, TN-based grade school!
I would think somewhere along the line, Coach Wojo would have taken a class in critical thinking. Maybe that is the pseudo class at Duke for basketball players!!
P.S. Wojo, those jeers and boos in the stands should have been a dead giveaway things were not well.
What??
This is crazy to me.
You need to be able to adapt and be open to change when things aren't going well in all professions. If this is true? Wow just wow.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 10:06:26 AM
Yes, I'm sure that's exactly how the conversation occurred.
Wojo interviewing for his next job -
New school - Steve why weren't you retained?
Wojo - Well the school gave me a clean house ultimatum after they told me I underachieved for seven years and I told them no way! I couldn't let my hard working guys off like that. I'm too loyal!
New school - But they let you go...And the new coach brought in an entirely new staff anyways.
Wojo - Yep.
From what I have heard this is pretty
much what happened
Scholl wanted to HELP him by bringing in an assistant or two that may actually be able to coach / plan / work on an actual offense.
I don't think it looks good for Wojo
The ADMIN had to have something to tell the fans and sell tickets. If he cannot see that what he was doing was not working .. then good riddance,
Can't fix a problem that u will not admit exists
The fact that he thought he was doing a good job is insane
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 20, 2021, 10:07:02 AM
How does Wojo not read the room? How is MU satisfied until now?
I was told that in the "big meeting," Wojo thought the team was doing fine, the results were fine during his tenure, and zero changes were needed (in any respect). How could he think zero NCAA tourney wins in 7 yrs is OK?
Was also told that Wojo became super PO'd because MU had seemed satisfied with his results and had never given him any sense there was any concern. From his POV, just the mere questioning now was a blindside.
I'm glad he's gone, but I have zero confidence MU will hire the kind of coach needed to resurrect the program.
If Wojo was that clueless, he really did need to go. Not sure how the info on the meeting relates to your last point though. You may be correct but they have shown by this firing that they truly want MU basketball to be better and will not accept poor results. I recognize wanting better results does not mean they will deliver, but its a good start and they have delivered on the women's side.
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1373279911230734336?s=19
Scroll to 37 min
Quote from: Mu8891 on March 20, 2021, 10:13:52 AM
From what I have heard this is pretty
much what happened
Scholl wanted to HELP him by bringing in an assistant or two that may actually be able to coach / plan / work on an actual offense.
I don't think it looks good for Wojo
The ADMIN had to have something to tell the fans and sell tickets. If he cannot see that what he was doing was not working .. then good riddance,
Can't fix a problem that u will not admit exists
I agree with every word of your post. It's one thing to be loyal to your staff, it quite another to be so stubborn that you are unwilling to change a losing situation. It almost sounds like he wanted out. Unless he's completely delusional? Bizarre.
I don't buy this is about Wojo being loyal to his guys. This is about Wojo still not getting it. He's an idiot and I'm thankful he is because that's the reason he's gone (if this reporting it to be believed).
No way to know if this is true or a mutually agreed upon story...
How is this Wojo "looking out for his guys"? He was told either to replace his assistants, or he *and* his assistants would be replaced. He didn't save anybody's job.
I said it a few weeks ago: Wojo thought he was doing a really good job here, and that any misfortunes the team experienced were the result of injuries and bad luck. He saw no problem with the results. You could see in his press conferences that he felt this way.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 20, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1373279911230734336?s=19
Scroll to 37 min
That was an interesting 2 minutes. Seems like he got his info from Broeker most likely. The names seem to have a little insight behind them. Didn't mention Gates, but Moser (Moser covets job according to those close), Shaka (would have been fired last year without big buyout), Bielein, Pat Kelsey (midwest ties). Shaka past talk, #Donedeal talk.... the other guy inferred he liked #IWB so he didn't want to name him as Dan Dakich / Bailey equivalent.
It might not have even involved firing a current coach. Maybe just what was done with the open position.
How big of a shakeup was he being asked to do? He already had to replace Killings anyway. I'd think it was more Wojo not wanting to have Scholl's input than loyalty to his guys, unless he was asked to clean house.
If there's any university and college basketball program that respects the role of the bench coach more than Marquette I'd be shocked. Folks in my generation grew up being shown how well that can work if the right people are involved. Al didn't even go to practice half the time. Moreover, he was humble enough deep down to know that Hank was way better at that part of the job; in fact one of the great floor coaches of all time. Both men's banners hang proudly in our rafters. Not understanding that is on Steve and represents the final nail if I'm Scholl, assuming the reports are accurate.
Funny how the guy who had the most bravado in college basketball history was more humble than the quiet, somewhat awkward guy who couldn't finish above .500 and never won a tournament game. Scholl made the right call; the only possible call.
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on March 20, 2021, 10:48:58 AM
How big of a shakeup was he being asked to do? He already had to replace Killings anyway. I'd think it was more Wojo not wanting to have Scholl's input than loyalty to his guys, unless he was asked to clean house.
This part
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on March 20, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
That was an interesting 2 minutes. Seems like he got his info from Broeker most likely. The names seem to have a little insight behind them. Didn't mention Gates, but Moser (Moser covets job according to those close), Shaka (would have been fired last year without big buyout), Bielein, Pat Kelsey (midwest ties). Shaka past talk, #Donedeal talk.... the other guy inferred he liked #IWB so he didn't want to name him as Dan Dakich / Bailey equivalent.
That's it. I'm Convinced Shaka is coming.
That 2 min segment literally convinced me Shaka is coming.
Scholl: Pretty obvious this isn't working
Wojo: Yeah
Scholl: Probably won't get any better next year
Wojo: True
Scholl: How does this sound - we give you the 9.5 million buy out and come up with an exit story that makes us both look good?
Wojo: Perfect
Does anybody else find it kind of sickening that we had to pay Wojo $9 million to go away? I understand Archie Miller having a buyout like that at Indiana, but Jesus, Wojo? What a horrible mistake.
I mean, we get to move past it now, but that's a tough pill to swallow.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on March 20, 2021, 09:46:18 AM
Per Goodman: "Wojo was told to shake up his coaching staff and he'd get another year or if he didn't, he'd be dismissed. Wojo refused to do so and was dismissed."
This makes sense. Scholl is a Notre Dame guy and it's what they've done to Brian Kelly several times. The first after his 4&8 season they made him clean house and they were even actively involved in picking the replacements as they didn't trust him to do it on his own.
It's a stupid bandaid approach as Brian Kelly is still an average coach who gets blown out when playing elite teams.
Glad Wojo was defiant so we could clean house and get a fresh start.
Quote from: jsglow on March 20, 2021, 10:49:57 AM
Funny how the guy who had the most bravado in college basketball history was more humble than the quiet, somewhat awkward guy who couldn't finish above .500 and never won a tournament game. Scholl made the right call; the only possible call.
Welcome back, Glow! This kind of keen insight on MU basketball past and present has been very much missed around here. Well done!!
Lenny
Who is your top pick to replace Wojo?
Quote from: jsglow on March 20, 2021, 10:49:57 AM
If there's any university and college basketball program that respects the role of the bench coach more than Marquette I'd be shocked. Folks in my generation grew up being shown how well that can work if the right people are involved. Al didn't even go to practice half the time. Moreover, he was humble enough deep down to know that Hank was way better at that part of the job; in fact one of the great floor coaches of all time. Both men's banners hang proudly in our rafters. Not understanding that is on Steve and represents the final nail if I'm Scholl, assuming the reports are accurate.
Funny how the guy who had the most bravado in college basketball history was more humble than the quiet, somewhat awkward guy who couldn't finish above .500 and never won a tournament game. Scholl made the right call; the only possible call.
100%. Gave him every opportunity to right the ship and make things work. Instead of willing to accept change and acknowledge that change was needed to get the program to an acceptable level, he drew a line in the sand. Says a lot about expectations. When the higher ups have greater expectations and are willing to do more to achieve them than the head coach of the program, that's a fundamental problem.
Glad Scholl pulled the trigger.
So if this is true -- and it certainly sounds like it is -- if Wojo says, "OK, I don't like it, but I'll dump Presutti and Judson and bring in a savvy Phil Martelli type and an up-and-coming recruiter type," he keeps his job.
No matter how much Scoop beyotched ... no matter how many season tickets might have gotten canceled ... no matter how much booing there would have been at games ... no matter what was said in brew's blog and elsewhere on the interwebs ... no matter what "influential donors" might have threatened ... no matter that we were embarrassed by Georgetown ...
Despite all the reasons that some have given for this happening, the fact is that Wojo would not have gotten fired if he had simply agreed to shake up his coaching staff?
Interesting.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 20, 2021, 10:07:02 AM
How does Wojo not read the room? How is MU satisfied until now?
I was told that in the "big meeting," Wojo thought the team was doing fine, the results were fine during his tenure, and zero changes were needed (in any respect). How could he think zero NCAA tourney wins in 7 yrs is OK?
Was also told that Wojo became super PO'd because MU had seemed satisfied with his results and had never given him any sense there was any concern. From his POV, just the mere questioning now was a blindside.
I'm glad he's gone, but I have zero confidence MU will hire the kind of coach needed to resurrect the program.
That zero confidence you have is definitely one shared by a lot of others. If donors ponied up some or all of the buyout, one has to believe they get to have some input.
Quote from: dw3dw3dw3 on March 20, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
That was an interesting 2 minutes. Seems like he got his info from Broeker most likely. The names seem to have a little insight behind them. Didn't mention Gates, but Moser (Moser covets job according to those close), Shaka (would have been fired last year without big buyout), Bielein, Pat Kelsey (midwest ties). Shaka past talk, #Donedeal talk.... the other guy inferred he liked #IWB so he didn't want to name him as Dan Dakich / Bailey equivalent.
I loved when Goodman, in his busted tshirt, is chugging a Gatorade the morning after the opening round of the tournament. Been there, Jeff, been there.
I heard the interview to strongly imply that Moser is very interested in the Marquette job, has been for a long time, the word "coveted" was used. Moser was a Majerus guy.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 20, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
Scholl: Pretty obvious this isn't working
Wojo: Yeah
Scholl: Probably won't get any better next year
Wojo: True
Scholl: How does this sound - we give you the 9.5 million buy out and come up with an exit story that makes us both look good?
Wojo: Perfect
Honestly, this is more probable than any of the other make-believe conversations here.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 20, 2021, 10:07:02 AM
How does Wojo not read the room? How is MU satisfied until now?
I was told that in the "big meeting," Wojo thought the team was doing fine, the results were fine during his tenure, and zero changes were needed (in any respect). How could he think zero NCAA tourney wins in 7 yrs is OK?
Was also told that Wojo became super PO'd because MU had seemed satisfied with his results and had never given him any sense there was any concern. From his POV, just the mere questioning now was a blindside.
I'm glad he's gone, but I have zero confidence MU will hire the kind of coach needed to resurrect the program.
You are likely conflating things. I think Wojo was told that the COVID year was kind of "wash year" where he could focus on developing some of the young guys. I think there was a general understanding of him generally doing well, and an understanding of this was a young team in a tough year.
There was a meeting of the minds that everything was fine, for now.
Then, the fan base erupted, significant external pressure on Scholl and the administration to do something now. That likely led to an actual blind-sided attack on Wojo, where suddenly the mutual understanding of this season/performance was flipped on its head.
In all honesty, I think all of this reflects poorly on Scholl, who clearly didn't understand the alumni/fan base, and then as a result did a poor job of relaying expectations/concerns to Wojo/staff.
Quote from: Goose on March 20, 2021, 11:06:41 AM
Lenny
Who is your top pick to replace Wojo?
Goose
True Confessions time - I'm not nearly as informed on college hoops as I once was. I'd trust our younger Scoopers to identify the best available up and coming coaches much more than my own opinion. I'd renew my season tickets (from Florida) for Pitino or Belein but that's a pipe dream. How about you?
Edit: left out Shaka, didn't realize he was a possibility until I read other threads. If he's available he's my #1 by a good margin.
Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2021, 11:20:31 AM
You are likely conflating things. I think Wojo was told that the COVID year was kind of "wash year" where he could focus on developing some of the young guys. I think there was a general understanding of him generally doing well, and an understanding of this was a young team in a tough year.
There was a meeting of the minds that everything was fine, for now.
Then, the fan base erupted, significant external pressure on Scholl and the administration to do something now. That likely led to an actual blind-sided attack on Wojo, where suddenly the mutual understanding of this season/performance was flipped on its head.
In all honesty, I think all of this reflects poorly on Scholl, who clearly didn't understand the alumni/fan base, and then as a result did a poor job of relaying expectations/concerns to Wojo/staff.
Even if this version is "more true" than the Goodman version, it STILL means that Wojo would have been allowed to keep his job if he did what Scholl wanted. Quite a different narrative from "billboards and blogs and boos got Wojo fired."
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 20, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
Scholl: Pretty obvious this isn't working
Wojo: Yeah
Scholl: Probably won't get any better next year
Wojo: True
Scholl: How does this sound - we give you the 9.5 million buy out and come up with an exit story that makes us both look good?
Wojo: Perfect
100% accurate. But people love a good story.
Quote from: DegenerateDish on March 20, 2021, 09:46:18 AM
Per Goodman: "Wojo was told to shake up his coaching staff and he'd get another year or if he didn't, he'd be dismissed. Wojo refused to do so and was dismissed."
Probably a good story but not sure I buy it. Killings just left so he would have an opening to fill anyway.
That leaves Gainey, Judson and Presutti. The latter was the lead on Mitchell. I don't see MU say clear house on all of them as you could clear 1, hire 1 and you have a remade staff. I think this is more of a face saver story.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 11:14:48 AM
I heard the interview to strongly imply that Moser is very interested in the Marquette job, has been for a long time, the word "coveted" was used. Moser was a Majerus guy.
For these purposes, was he though? He spent 4 seasons as an assistant to him 20 years into his D1 playing and coaching career. I have no doubt Rick profoundly influenced him as a coach and clearly helped turn his HC career around, but it seems a bit late and short to have locked in these "my conveted job is the Alma mater of my mentor" vibes
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 20, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1373279911230734336?s=19
Scroll to 37 min
How the hell do you scroll on that video player on mobile?
If true, it follows a pattern with Wojo. In 2019, he was too loyal to the Hausers to kick them off the team when they needed to be. He didn't think there was a problem that wouldn't work itself out in the offseason. In 2021, he was too loyal to his assistants to clean house and save his job. He didn't think there was a problem.
Moving on.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
If true, it follows a pattern with Wojo. In 2019, he was too loyal to the Hausers to kick them off the team when they needed to be.
lol
Quote from: JWags85 on March 20, 2021, 11:24:48 AM
For these purposes, was he though? He spent 4 seasons as an assistant to him 20 years into his D1 playing and coaching career. I have no doubt Rick profoundly influenced him as a coach and clearly helped turn his HC career around, but it seems a bit late and short to have locked in these "my conveted job is the Alma mater of my mentor" vibes
Just reiterating what Goodman and the host said. Watch the video.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
If true, it follows a pattern with Wojo. In 2019, he was too loyal to the Hausers to kick them off the team when they needed to be. He didn't think there was a problem that wouldn't work itself out in the offseason. In 2021, he was too loyal to his assistants to clean house and save his job. He didn't think there was a problem.
Moving on.
Interesting point but should have H and H been kicked off the team Tower? For the letter/insubordination?
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on March 20, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
How the hell do you scroll on that video player on mobile?
Press and hold on the screen until the scroll function pops up.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2021, 11:23:11 AM
Even if this version is "more true" than the Goodman version, it STILL means that Wojo would have been allowed to keep his job if he did what Scholl wanted. Quite a different narrative from "billboards and blogs and boos got Wojo fired."
I agree. I think Wojo was likely given the opportunity to save his job. My guess that was in part due to Scholl trying to save face for misunderstanding alumni/fan expectations, and conveying proper performance expectations/reviews to Wojo. I also think that to some extent, that led to Wojo being blindsided. I think egos got involved, which is never a good thing, and it shouldn't have gotten to that point.
Seeing some of these leaks makes me think that Scholl really mismanaged a major aspect of his job.
Still, I can't believe Wojo would be that adamantly against brining in a senior x's and o's bench coach. He likely could have lobbied to keep his other 2 assistants, and just bring in a Scholl approved veteran...but egos.
If Wojo had kicked the Hausers off the team for writing a freaking letter then Wojo wasn't getting that extension, and probably not a sixth year either.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
If true, it follows a pattern with Wojo. In 2019, he was too loyal to the Hausers to kick them off the team when they needed to be. He didn't think there was a problem that wouldn't work itself out in the offseason. In 2021, he was too loyal to his assistants to clean house and save his job. He didn't think there was a problem.
Moving on.
I think you're mistaking "loyalty" with being too stubborn, having a massive ego, and not being particularly bright or emotionally intelligent enough to read a room.
Basically, he thought his crap didn't stink, hey?
Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2021, 11:36:53 AM
I agree. I think Wojo was likely given the opportunity to save his job. My guess that was in part due to Scholl trying to save face for misunderstanding alumni/fan expectations, and conveying proper performance expectations/reviews to Wojo. I also think that to some extent, that led to Wojo being blindsided. I think egos got involved, which is never a good thing, and it shouldn't have gotten to that point.
Seeing some of these leaks makes me think that Scholl really mismanaged a major aspect of his job.
Still, I can't believe Wojo would be that adamantly against brining in a senior x's and o's bench coach. He likely could have lobbied to keep his other 2 assistants, and just bring in a Scholl approved veteran...but egos.
If Scholl told Wojo that he was getting a pass on year seven after accomplishing nothing of note the first six, then yeah, very dumb on Scholl's part.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 20, 2021, 11:37:12 AM
I think you're mistaking "loyalty" with being too stubborn, having a massive ego, and not being particularly bright or emotionally intelligent enough to read a room.
Basically, he thought his crap didn't stink, hey?
He was convinced he was right.
He wasn't.
Seems like a shrewd negotiating tactic to me. The assistants would be gone either way, and he didn't want to suffer the indignity of a full offseason of the fanbase mocking him then getting booed at the Fiserv for a full season before being shown the door. This way he gets a $9mil vacation and gets to look righteous at the same time. If this is to be believed, I'm glad he forced the admin's hand, but sux a$$ we had to pay him so much just to go away. Onward and upward!
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on March 20, 2021, 11:37:01 AM
If Wojo had kicked the Hausers off the team for writing a freaking letter then Wojo wasn't getting that extension, and probably not a sixth year either.
He didn't. He let it stew.
This is a good look for both sides, IMO. Marquette comes out looking like they recognized expectations were not being met, wanted to work with Wojo to help meet them, and that Wojo was loyal, probably to a fault, with players and coaches. Loyalty to quite a few high-major, and nearly all mid-major, coaching jobs is a strong plus, IMO. Wojo will be able to spin that as a strong selling point.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 20, 2021, 11:44:44 AM
Seems like a shrewd negotiating tactic to me. The assistants would be gone either way, and he didn't want to suffer the indignity of a full offseason of the fanbase mocking him then getting booed at the Fiserv for a full season before being shown the door. This way he gets a $9mil vacation and gets to look righteous at the same time. If this is to be believed, I'm glad he forced the admin's hand, but sux a$$ we had to pay him so much just to go away. Onward and upward!
It is "confirmed" that it is $9 million?
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 11:36:43 AM
Press and hold on the screen until the scroll function pops up.
Thank you
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on March 20, 2021, 11:27:07 AM
How the hell do you scroll on that video player on mobile?
Touch and hold the blank area below the video, and the timer should pop up.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 09:58:55 AM
That he didn't through his assistants under the bus is a bad look?
No.
Wojo made an emotional decision and not a rational one. This and his stubborness is a bad reflection on him.
It was obvious to a blind man that the staff was not successful and changes needed to be made. Wojo was lucky he was even given a chance.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 20, 2021, 11:46:49 AM
It is "confirmed" that it is $9 million?
He had three more years on his contract, but he deferred about $500k this year. So based on salary and perhaps a few other perks, in the $6-7 mil range is a good estimate.
Quote from: fjm on March 20, 2021, 09:52:18 AM
Bad look for who?
The admin stuck to their guns and told him things need to change.
Wojo stuck to his guns and supported his staff.
I think it's an ok look for both sides.
Agree
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 11:36:43 AM
Press and hold on the screen until the scroll function pops up.
I think I accidentally scrolled backwards 25 years, Goodman was in the kitchen of my crappy apartment in the mid '90s.
Quote from: PhillyWarrior on March 20, 2021, 11:54:08 AM
Wojo made an emotional decision and not a rational one. This and his stubborness is a bad reflection on him.
It was obvious to a blind man that the staff was not successful and changes needed to be made. Wojo was lucky he was even given a chance.
Nope. Every coach wants control over his/her staff, and not to have those personnel decisions being made by the athletic director.
If this happened, Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes. Wojo made a reasonable decision that staff changes are within his purview, not the ADs.
There's no reason anyone needs to be wrong here.
Really, this thread is mostly a bunch people eager to piss on the guy's grave.
I think it's a perfectly rationale decision. The choice was prostrate himself for on more year or get fired and collect on the contract, I know what I would choose. He's looking for a new job in either scenario really. So why not save some face and just take the buyout.
Quote from: naginiF on March 20, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
I think I accidentally scrolled backwards 25 years, Goodman was in the kitchen of my crappy apartment in the mid '90s.
This cracked me up. So true!
Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2021, 11:20:31 AM
You are likely conflating things. I think Wojo was told that the COVID year was kind of "wash year" where he could focus on developing some of the young guys. I think there was a general understanding of him generally doing well, and an understanding of this was a young team in a tough year.
There was a meeting of the minds that everything was fine, for now.
Then, the fan base erupted, significant external pressure on Scholl and the administration to do something now. That likely led to an actual blind-sided attack on Wojo, where suddenly the mutual understanding of this season/performance was flipped on its head.
In all honesty, I think all of this reflects poorly on Scholl, who clearly didn't understand the alumni/fan base, and then as a result did a poor job of relaying expectations/concerns to Wojo/staff.
I agree with this summation. I honestly believe both Wojo and School were surprised by the negative reaction of alumni and fans.
Quote from: naginiF on March 20, 2021, 12:01:08 PM
I think I accidentally scrolled backwards 25 years, Goodman was in the kitchen of my crappy apartment in the mid '90s.
Dang. That is funny.
Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2021, 11:20:31 AM
You are likely conflating things. I think Wojo was told that the COVID year was kind of "wash year" where he could focus on developing some of the young guys. I think there was a general understanding of him generally doing well, and an understanding of this was a young team in a tough year.
There was a meeting of the minds that everything was fine, for now.
Then, the fan base erupted, significant external pressure on Scholl and the administration to do something now. That likely led to an actual blind-sided attack on Wojo, where suddenly the mutual understanding of this season/performance was flipped on its head.
In all honesty, I think all of this reflects poorly on Scholl, who clearly didn't understand the alumni/fan base, and then as a result did a poor job of relaying expectations/concerns to Wojo/staff.
Too logical. I reject it.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2021, 11:10:41 AM
So if this is true -- and it certainly sounds like it is -- if Wojo says, "OK, I don't like it, but I'll dump Presutti and Judson and bring in a savvy Phil Martelli type and an up-and-coming recruiter type," he keeps his job.
No matter how much Scoop beyotched ... no matter how many season tickets might have gotten canceled ... no matter how much booing there would have been at games ... no matter what was said in brew's blog and elsewhere on the interwebs ... no matter what "influential donors" might have threatened ... no matter that we were embarrassed by Georgetown ...
Despite all the reasons that some have given for this happening, the fact is that Wojo would not have gotten fired if he had simply agreed to shake up his coaching staff?
Interesting.
And maybe, just maybe all the things you think didn't matter are the very things that forced MU to demand changes from Wojo ultimately leading to his firing.
Interesting.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2021, 11:10:41 AM
So if this is true -- and it certainly sounds like it is -- if Wojo says, "OK, I don't like it, but I'll dump Presutti and Judson and bring in a savvy Phil Martelli type and an up-and-coming recruiter type," he keeps his job.
No matter how much Scoop beyotched ... no matter how many season tickets might have gotten canceled ... no matter how much booing there would have been at games ... no matter what was said in brew's blog and elsewhere on the interwebs ... no matter what "influential donors" might have threatened ... no matter that we were embarrassed by Georgetown ...
Despite all the reasons that some have given for this happening, the fact is that Wojo would not have gotten fired if he had simply agreed to shake up his coaching staff?
Interesting.
Wojo is a nice guy, runs a clean program and is able to sell recruits to come here. There were reasons to keep him but it was obvious to all that his in game coaching and game planning was atrocious. Plus no real identity. I have a feeling that he was going to bump up his current assistants to replace Killings and hire a bottom level assitant and the hire ups wanted him to hire a legit Assistant Coach that was going to help with Wojo's huge deficiencies. I think Wojo was too proud to say yes to that.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 20, 2021, 11:46:49 AM
It is "confirmed" that it is $9 million?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 20, 2021, 11:55:45 AM
He had three more years on his contract, but he deferred about $500k this year. So based on salary and perhaps a few other perks, in the $6-7 mil range is a good estimate.
We won't get confirmation (maybe in future MU public records...), but I was thinking his annual salary was $2.2 or $2.3M, so I did 2.3*3 = 6.9 + 2.3 (early term) = $9.2M
Blackhearts numbers may be more accurate. But give or take a couple mil, that's the range. I've heard as high as $11M, but maybe that was last year with the time left on the contract.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2021, 11:10:41 AM
So if this is true -- and it certainly sounds like it is -- if Wojo says, "OK, I don't like it, but I'll dump Presutti and Judson and bring in a savvy Phil Martelli type and an up-and-coming recruiter type," he keeps his job.
No matter how much Scoop beyotched ... no matter how many season tickets might have gotten canceled ... no matter how much booing there would have been at games ... no matter what was said in brew's blog and elsewhere on the interwebs ... no matter what "influential donors" might have threatened ... no matter that we were embarrassed by Georgetown ...
Despite all the reasons that some have given for this happening, the fact is that Wojo would not have gotten fired if he had simply agreed to shake up his coaching staff?
Interesting.
If this is actually true, and given the performance of the team over the past 2-3 seasons it sounds reasonable, this reflects a profound inability of Wojo to see reality.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 20, 2021, 10:54:59 AM
Scholl: Pretty obvious this isn't working
Wojo: Yeah
Scholl: Probably won't get any better next year
Wojo: True
Scholl: How does this sound - we give you the 9.5 million buy out and come up with an exit story that makes us both look good?
Wojo: Perfect
Not bad. Or maybe it went like this
Scholl: This is not working out.
Wojo: No shice Sherlock. I figured that out a couple years ago after Hausergate.
Scholl: What? But..Steve..why didn't you say something?
Wojo: Are you kidding? This is a nice paying gig with good perks and resources.
Scholl: Well we need to make some changes.
Wojo: Screw you. Now pay me my 9 million.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 20, 2021, 12:13:47 PM
And maybe, just maybe all the things you think didn't matter are the very things that forced MU to demand changes from Wojo ultimately leading to his firing.
Interesting.
That could be true, we actually agree.
I'm a huge MU fan too, and I soured on Wojo too, and I called for his firing too. So I like to think that you and I and others of similar mindsets had something directly to do with this. But in the end -- despite the boos and blogs and billboards and beyotching -- he supposedly could have kept his job had he agreed to the kind of coaching-staff changes that others have made over the years to keep their jobs.
Unless the Goodman report is BS, which is possible.
So yes, interesting.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 20, 2021, 12:18:55 PM
We won't get confirmation (maybe in future MU public records...), but I was thinking his annual salary was $2.2 or $2.3M, so I did 2.3*3 = 6.9 + 2.3 (early term) = $9.2M
Blackhearts numbers may be more accurate. But give or take a couple mil, that's the range. I've heard as high as $11M, but maybe that was last year with the time left on the contract.
I probably needed to add in the assistants (no Killings) salaries too which I believe is one year.
So considering Wojo is gone, I don't think the planned part 2 of our collaboration will ever see light of day. But we did deep dives into staff experience and NCAA success. Outside the Brad Stevens outliers, you see a pretty sharp line going up in terms of deep NCAA success.
We would've suggested if Wojo stayed, he get rid of Presutti and add one experienced former HC in Killings' place (Larry Krystkowiak comes to mind) and a savvy analytics guy in Jake's place (Jordan Sperber would be my first choice for that). Obviously a moot point now, but it seems like Scholl was of the same mindset.
Woj held all the cards. He knew he had his buyout in his back pocket and the dude who gave him that should be shot. Woj was known to be a disaster in year 2. He likely didn't want to be here any more than we wanted him here, but shekels matta, aina?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 12:02:43 PM
Nope. Every coach wants control over his/her staff, and not to have those personnel decisions being made by the athletic director.
If this happened, Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes. Wojo made a reasonable decision that staff changes are within his purview, not the ADs.
There's no reason anyone needs to be wrong here.
Really, this thread is mostly a bunch people eager to piss on the guy's grave.
+100
4ever
Of course Wojo held all of the cards. Easy to draw line in the sand when a check for $9m is coming your way. The only hope MU had was if some other school was foolish enough to hire him away. Obviously MU did not think that was happening over the next two weeks. I'll give Wojo credit for hit the Brink's truck on the way out of town. The Duke education paid off quite nicely yesterday.
Quote from: forgetful on March 20, 2021, 11:20:31 AM
You are likely conflating things. I think Wojo was told that the COVID year was kind of "wash year" where he could focus on developing some of the young guys. I think there was a general understanding of him generally doing well, and an understanding of this was a young team in a tough year.
There was a meeting of the minds that everything was fine, for now.
Then, the fan base erupted, significant external pressure on Scholl and the administration to do something now. That likely led to an actual blind-sided attack on Wojo, where suddenly the mutual understanding of this season/performance was flipped on its head.
In all honesty, I think all of this reflects poorly on Scholl, who clearly didn't understand the alumni/fan base, and then as a result did a poor job of relaying expectations/concerns to Wojo/staff.
That seems like a plausible scenario.
If true, I agree it isn't a good look for Scholl. It's his job to be very aware of the feelings of the fanbase and the expectations of the BOT, and to communicate them to the coach. If this came to a head as suddenly and dramatically as it appears, he fumbled the ball.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 12:02:43 PM
Nope. Every coach wants control over his/her staff, and not to have those personnel decisions being made by the athletic director.
If this happened, Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes. Wojo made a reasonable decision that staff changes are within his purview, not the ADs.
There's no reason anyone needs to be wrong here.
Really, this thread is mostly a bunch people eager to piss on the guy's grave.
I don't have any idea if this story is true but what is wrong with the AD telling the coach that staff changes are neccessary for this program to meet expectations? Now if Scholl told him that he and not Wojo would choose certain potential assistants? That's a problem. Frankly, not having an experienced coach on Wojo's staff has been discussed ad nauseum for 5 years. I think Wojo: 1) Didn't want to come back and was happy just to take his buyout and 2) has a stubborn streak that has been proven to be an issue.
Quote from: Goose on March 20, 2021, 01:10:32 PM
4ever
Of course Wojo held all of the cards. Easy to draw line in the sand when a check for $9m is coming your way. The only hope MU had was if some other school was foolish enough to hire him away. Obviously MU did not think that was happening over the next two weeks. I'll give Wojo credit for hit the Brink's truck on the way out of town. The Duke education paid off quite nicely yesterday.
The guy sucked for seven years, was asked to make a few changes by the AD and was totally defiant, walked away with $9 million in donor money, and people on here are still trying to defend him. I don't think I'll ever understand it.
The more I think about this situation, the less I believe it. It would have been Buzz 2.0. Wojo vs The Admin. This would have created a toxic atmosphere at MU for the remainder of Wojo's tenure which would have only lasted another year anyway. If Scholl really proposed this, then he's more incompetent than I thought he was because it makes no sense.
On the other hand, Wojo should have absolutely been proactive enough to realize the dead weight on his coaching staff and acted accordingly on his own. He was delusional enough and taken back when Scholl said changes were needed. In his mind, he thought he had the program rolling.
If this story is true, we should be thankful that Wojo's ego was too big to agree to the terms. It would have been a disaster otherwise.
The Hausers were right, no? There was a fatal flaw with Wojo's coaching of Howard (and coaching, in general) that was detrimental to a team with greater potential, and the Hausers tried to let their thoughts be known in the most respectful way they could.
Wojo refused to change, the Hausers transferred, the program entered a tailspin, and Wojo ended up getting fired. I'm unsure where all the Hauser hate comes from. They have free will to do what they think is best for themselves, no? Or are they "yes sir, no sir" slaves to the great Steve Wojo? I mean pro teams have "player only" meetings somewhat regularly, and the good coaches adapt and the team gets better.
The majority of the Hauser vitriol comes from the last of the ProJos who have never (and still cannot) admit that they were wrong. Oh well - their hubris and insecurity has placed them on the wrong side of history and it will take years to wipe the egg off their faces.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 20, 2021, 01:25:23 PM
I don't have any idea if this story is true but what is wrong with the AD telling the coach that staff changes are neccessary for this program to meet expectations?
I literally wrote "Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes" in the post to which you are responding.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
The Hausers were right, no? There was a fatal flaw with Wojo's coaching of Howard (and coaching, in general) that was detrimental to a team with greater potential, and the Hausers tried to let their thoughts be known in the most respectful way they could.
Wojo refused to change, the Hausers transferred, the program entered a tailspin, and Wojo ended up getting fired. I'm unsure where all the Hauser hate comes from. They have free will to do what they think is best for themselves, no? Or are they "yes sir, no sir" slaves to the great Steve Wojo? I mean pro teams have "player only" meetings somewhat regularly, and the good coaches adapt and the team gets better.
The majority of the Hauser vitriol comes from the last of the ProJos who have never (and still cannot) admit that they were wrong. Oh well - their hubris and insecurity has placed them on the wrong side of history and it will take years to wipe the egg off their faces.
Probably comes from Joey being an entitled bitch from the second he arrived.
He's a bench player now.
Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2021, 01:47:15 PM
Probably comes from Joey being an entitled bitch from the second he arrived.
He's a bench player on a better team now.
FTFY
And Wojo is without a job.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
The Hausers were right, no? There was a fatal flaw with Wojo's coaching of Howard (and coaching, in general) that was detrimental to a team with greater potential, and the Hausers tried to let their thoughts be known in the most respectful way they could.
Wojo refused to change, the Hausers transferred, the program entered a tailspin, and Wojo ended up getting fired. I'm unsure where all the Hauser hate comes from. They have free will to do what they think is best for themselves, no? Or are they "yes sir, no sir" slaves to the great Steve Wojo? I mean pro teams have "player only" meetings somewhat regularly, and the good coaches adapt and the team gets better.
The majority of the Hauser vitriol comes from the last of the ProJos who have never (and still cannot) admit that they were wrong. Oh well - their hubris and insecurity has placed them on the wrong side of history and it will take years to wipe the egg off their faces.
Hoo boy, that stings. From what is seen here, most of those projos will never realize that they had egg on their faces
Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2021, 01:47:15 PM
Probably comes from Joey being an entitled bitch from the second he arrived.
He's a bench player now.
"But he was right and you have egg on your face!" says the 12-year-old child.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 01:43:25 PM
The Hausers were right, no? There was a fatal flaw with Wojo's coaching of Howard (and coaching, in general) that was detrimental to a team with greater potential, and the Hausers tried to let their thoughts be known in the most respectful way they could.
Wojo refused to change, the Hausers transferred, the program entered a tailspin, and Wojo ended up getting fired. I'm unsure where all the Hauser hate comes from. They have free will to do what they think is best for themselves, no? Or are they "yes sir, no sir" slaves to the great Steve Wojo? I mean pro teams have "player only" meetings somewhat regularly, and the good coaches adapt and the team gets better.
The majority of the Hauser vitriol comes from the last of the ProJos who have never (and still cannot) admit that they were wrong. Oh well - their hubris and insecurity has placed them on the wrong side of history and it will take years to wipe the egg off their faces.
Excellent and insightful comment.
Take the names Hauser, Howard, and Wojo out of the equation. Replace Howard and Wojo with Winston/Izzo or Powell/Willard. Remove the emotion.
If the second and third best players on a team with an all American point guard were unhappy with the usage and treatment of Winston/Powell and put their concerns in writing to their coach, what do you think Izzo/Willard would have done? What coach let's a freshman's complaint dictate the usage of a team captain?
That is the lens through which I have always judged this. What would I have thought if it happened at a different school and what would I have expected the response of the coach to be?
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 01:50:16 PM
FTFY
And Wojo is without a job.
And Joey isn't declaring for the draft, which is why he needed to leave Marquette.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 11:31:38 AM
If true, it follows a pattern with Wojo. In 2019, he was too loyal to the Hausers to kick them off the team when they needed to be.
What on earth are you even talking about at this point? Kick the Hausers OFF THE TEAM??
For what, bringing to light a very clear problem that ended up tanking our season?
How about he act like an adult and a highly-paid basketball coach and address the problem that's clearly affecting his team.
"Kick them off the team". I'm convinced you're trolling at this point.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
Take the names Hauser, Howard, and Wojo out of the equation. Replace Howard and Wojo with Winston/Izzo or Powell/Willard. Remove the emotion.
If the second and third best players on a team with an all American point guard were unhappy with the usage and treatment of Winston/Powell and put their concerns in writing to their coach, what do you think Izzo/Willard would have done? What coach let's a freshman's complaint dictate the usage of a team captain?
That is the lens through which I have always judged this. What would I have thought if it happened at a different school and what would I have expected the response of the coach to be?
To my knowledge that situation never happened with Izzo or Willard . . . but it happened with Wojo and does not speak well of his team management and leadership.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
What coach let's a freshman's complaint dictate the usage of a team captain?
That is the lens through which I have always judged this. What would I have thought if it happened at a different school and what would I have expected the response of the coach to be?
So you're completely discrediting Sam's involvement in this? An All-Conference performer who was just as quality a guy off the court?
What would you expect? Like I said, that the coach hears the concerns of his players and manages it accordingly. This isn't rocket science. But given Wojo's clear denial that he was actually doing a good job here, it 100% checks out that he was too dense and ego-maniacal to consider any viewpoints besides his own.
Projos love making up fake dialogue about the Hauser situation. A lot of things that were just rumors or speculation have somehow become "fact" over time. We don't really know what happened. The only certain thing is that the program collapsed under Wojo's leadership.
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:05:42 PM
So you're completely discrediting Sam's involvement in this? An All-Conference performer who was just as quality a guy off the court?
What would you expect? Like I said, that the coach hears the concerns of his players and manages it accordingly. This isn't rocket science. But given Wojo's clear denial that he was actually doing a good job here, it 100% checks out that he was too dense and ego-maniacal to consider any viewpoints besides his own.
It was roses between the Hauser Family and Markus until Joey thought he was a one and done.
The mere fact that Hasershima, Hausergate, Hauserpocolyspe, happened is enough to demonstrate Wojo was out of his element. It is that simple.
Amazingly, he was given a second chance (and possibly third chance). Nothing he did with his two (2) bonus seasons demonstrated he was capable to lead Marquette to success. I am glad he is gone and I wish him well.
It is time to embrace the change.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 20, 2021, 02:07:33 PM
Projos love making up fake dialogue about the Hauser situation. A lot of things that were just rumors or speculation have somehow become "fact" over time. We don't really know what happened. The only certain thing is that the program collapsed under Wojo's leadership.
I mean, did you even read the post that took us down the dumb path for the millionth time?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 01:44:53 PM
I literally wrote "Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes" in the post to which you are responding.
Yes. But "Wojo being within his purview", when the results have been well below expectations for 7 yrs, connotes that both parties were not "right" from my point of view. Unless Wojo had no interest in coming back which is quite possible.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
Take the names Hauser, Howard, and Wojo out of the equation. Replace Howard and Wojo with Winston/Izzo or Powell/Willard. Remove the emotion.
If the second and third best players on a team with an all American point guard were unhappy with the usage and treatment of Winston/Powell and put their concerns in writing to their coach, what do you think Izzo/Willard would have done? What coach let's a freshman's complaint dictate the usage of a team captain?
That is the lens through which I have always judged this. What would I have thought if it happened at a different school and what would I have expected the response of the coach to be?
First and foremost, Izzo has NEVER used a player the way Wojo used Howard. And his teams typically win because of that. So your analogy is already extremely flawed and you've failed to understand fundamental differences between Izzo and Wojo (tough look).
Secondly, I certainly don't think Izzo would've kicked players off the team as you so brazenly suggest (Willard maybe, but I'm not convinced he's a good coach, himself). I hypothesize Izzo would sit down with the player(s) and try to help them understand why Izzo knows best (and maybe wear his national championship ring during the sit-down). I'm likely right as Izzo has never had a Hausergate situation happen to him in decades of coaching.
Finally, one of Wojo's fatal flaws was that he never adapted or got better. And the program suffered. He was a freshman coach himself and (as was borne out) didn't really know what he was doing as a high major HC. I don't think the Hauser's came from a place of selfishness. It seems apparent that the Hausers were able to identify (like many many of us besides you, Tower) that "the Howard show" and Wojo's coaching technique could only take the uber-talented team so far, and a balanced attack would likely produce better results (which we have ALL theorized).
Unfortunately I think it is ye that needs to remove the emotion. You hitched your wagon to Wojo and he drove it off a cliff. Bashing college kids to compensate for being wrong about Wojo is just... wrong lol.
You need to accept it, make peace with it, move on. Say it with me "I was wrong about Wojo".
Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2021, 02:08:35 PM
It was roses between the Hauser Family and Markus until Joey thought he was a one and done.
Sam also took exception to how things were going, like I said when I first told the board they were transferring. Wojo is the adult in the room and leader of the program, it's on him to manage his team. A hundred coaches deal with things like that every season.
Handling their meeting when they told him they were officially transferring with a "get the unnatural carnal knowledge out of here" (from Sam to my student manager friend who always gave me info) told me all I needed to know about Wojo: that's when I was out. He's a petulant child and I'm thrilled he's no longer affiliated with my alma mater.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 20, 2021, 02:16:33 PM
Yes. But "Wojo being within his purview", when the results have been well below expectations for 7 yrs, connotes that both parties were not "right" from my point of view. Unless Wojo had no interest in coming back which is quite possible.
My dude, now you're just talking out your rear.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 20, 2021, 02:07:33 PM
Projos love making up fake dialogue about the Hauser situation. A lot of things that were just rumors or speculation have somehow become "fact" over time. We don't really know what happened. The only certain thing is that the program collapsed under Wojo's leadership.
That's not quite the only certain thing.
We also learned that Joey is not as good as he thought he was.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
Take the names Hauser, Howard, and Wojo out of the equation. Replace Howard and Wojo with Winston/Izzo or Powell/Willard. Remove the emotion.
If the second and third best players on a team with an all American point guard were unhappy with the usage and treatment of Winston/Powell and put their concerns in writing to their coach, what do you think Izzo/Willard would have done? What coach let's a freshman's complaint dictate the usage of a team captain?
That is the lens through which I have always judged this. What would I have thought if it happened at a different school and what would I have expected the response of the coach to be?
Didn't Izzo bench watts for long stretches this season?
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
Take the names Hauser, Howard, and Wojo out of the equation. Replace Howard and Wojo with Winston/Izzo or Powell/Willard. Remove the emotion.
If the second and third best players on a team with an all American point guard were unhappy with the usage and treatment of Winston/Powell and put their concerns in writing to their coach, what do you think Izzo/Willard would have done? What coach let's a freshman's complaint dictate the usage of a team captain?
That is the lens through which I have always judged this. What would I have thought if it happened at a different school and what would I have expected the response of the coach to be?
Izzo told Joey he would have handled the situation the same as Wojo and Joey needed to understand that.
It was in a long form article on Joey's choice. Apologies for not remembering specifics.
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:18:37 PM
Sam also took exception to how things were going, like I said when I first told the board they were transferring. Wojo is the adult in the room and leader of the program, it's on him to manage his team. A hundred coaches deal with things like that every season.
Handling their meeting when they told him they were officially transferring with a "get the unnatural carnal knowledge out of here" (from Sam to my student manager friend who always gave me info) told me all I needed to know about Wojo: that's when I was out. He's a petulant child and I'm thrilled he's no longer affiliated with my alma mater.
Agreed, no one handled it well.
What would you have done?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:19:09 PM
My dude, now you're just talking out your rear.
If Wojo still wanted to be the head coach of MU why would he object to making staff changes with his lack of success for 7 seasons? Because it was "within his purview"?
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:05:42 PM
So you're completely discrediting Sam's involvement in this? An All-Conference performer who was just as quality a guy off the court?
What would you expect? Like I said, that the coach hears the concerns of his players and manages it accordingly. This isn't rocket science. But given Wojo's clear denial that he was actually doing a good job here, it 100% checks out that he was too dense and ego-maniacal to consider any viewpoints besides his own.
You are still viewing it emotionally. Take the Wojo sucks emotion out of it. And creating imaginary dialog? We all agree there was unhappiness. Yes/No?
I think it was handled poorly. And I assume the basic narrative is true. The Hausers were unhappy with what they perceived to be preferential treatment of Markus. That Markus went off script when plays were called. And I believe they communicated their frustration to Wojo. Does anybody actually think differently?
Here is where my perception differs. What would the outcome be with the identical circumstances listed above if it happened to Izzo, K, Huggy, Self, Jay, etc. The convenient answer is that it wouldn't happen to them. But why? Because the players wouldn't dare challenge them? Because they have never had a team with dissension? Not logical.
What would (fill in the name of your favorite college coach) done in the same circumstances? (And if it is Bennet, he is rumored to have said he would have donethe same thing)
That is how I came to my opinion. What would I expect other coaches to do in the same circumstances.
And I think Wojo trying to please everybody was weak.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 02:23:41 PM
Izzo told Joey he would have handled the situation the same as Wojo and Joey needed to understand that.
It was in a long form article on Joey's choice. Apologies for not remembering specifics.
And TB is rumored to have said the same. Fascinating.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 20, 2021, 02:28:03 PM
If Wojo still wanted to be the head coach of MU why would he object to making staff changes with his lack of success for 7 seasons? Because it was "within his purview"?
Now you're shifting goalposts to it being some kind of barometer for how much Wojo wanted to be the head coach at Marquette.
Whether you agree or not, the vast majority of coaches are going to hold firm on having control of their staff. This is true in every sport at every level. Wojo was presented with a choice: sell out on that principle and remain, or take a great big buyout and leave.
The great irony is that by choosing the latter, Wojo gave you the exact result you wanted - he's no longer Marquette's basketball coach. But instead of being happy about it, you're pissing and moaning about his choice. Why? Do you just feel the need to b*tch about everything? Would you only be satisfied if Wojo's departure were somehow more humiliating for him? Are you just a miserable person?
I honestly don't get you. His decision gave you everything you've been asking for, and you need to be unhappy about it?
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 02:28:08 PM
You are still viewing it emotionally. Take the Wojo sucks emotion out of it. And creating imaginary dialog? We all agree there was unhappiness. Yes/No?
I think it was handled poorly. And I assume the basic narrative is true. The Hausers were unhappy with what they perceived to be preferential treatment of Markus. That Markus went off script when plays were called. And I believe they communicated their frustration to Wojo. Does anybody actually think differently?
Here is where my perception differs. What would the outcome be with the identical circumstances listed above if it happened to Izzo, K, Huggy, Self, Jay, etc. The convenient answer is that it wouldn't happen to them. But why? Because the players wouldn't dare challenge them? Because they have never had a team with dissension? Not logical.
What would (fill in the name of your favorite college coach) done in the same circumstances? (And if it is Bennet, he is rumored to have said he would have donethe same thing)
That is how I came to my opinion. What would I expect other coaches to do in the same circumstances.
And I think Wojo trying to please everybody was weak.
Assuming the story and facts are correct, Wojo's action when the letter (ultimatum?) were delivered was correct. However, the letter came after a long string of events, discussions, problems, and issues. The letter did not materialize out of nowhere. It should not have reached that point. If Wojo was blindsided by it, that demonstrates gross incompetence.
The letter and blowup never should have happened.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 02:36:06 PM
And TB is rumored to have said the same. Fascinating.
Just like the University was rumored to keep Wojo for next season "cuz COVID finances"? And just like the University was rumored to come out publicly in support of Wojo after the blog article?
Your rumors / theories aren't super reliable anymore, bud.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:36:20 PM
Now you're shifting goalposts to it being some kind of barometer for how Wojo wanted to be the head coach at Marquette.
Whether you agree or not, the vast majority of coaches are going to hold firm on having control of their staff. This is true in every sport at every level. Wojo was presented with a choice: sell out on that principle and remain, or take a great big buyout and leave.
The great irony is that by choosing the latter, Wojo gave you the exact result you wanted - he's no longer Marquette's basketball coach. But instead of being happy about it, you're pissing and moaning about his choice. Why? Do you just feel the need to b*tch about everything? Would you only be satisfied if Wojo's departure were somehow more humiliating for him? Are you just a miserable person?
I honestly don't get you. His decision gave you everything you've been asking for, and you need to be unhappy about it?
I am happy about it but surprised about how this apparently went down. Did Scholl say he "couldn't control his staff" or that he needed to make changes on the staff?
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 01:57:38 PM
If the second and third best players on a team with an all American point guard were unhappy with the usage and treatment of Winston/Powell and put their concerns in writing to their coach, what do you think Izzo/Willard would have done?
By the time the concerns were put into a letter it was too late. If the HC has created an environment in which honest communication is encouraged it never gets to a letter. I've heard from past players Wojo wasn't good at communicating with players 1 on 1 and hearing their concerns. I chalk it up to Duke breed arrogance and a guy who'd really rather be out recruiting new players than dealing with interpersonal issues of the guys he already has.
Glad he's gone. Now lets go get someone who is ready to deal with these situations before they explode.
Scholl said he was the perfect coach off the floor. I thought that and a COVID mulligan would offset the on court results. I was wrong. I am surprised but not disappointed.
What would you have done with the Hausers if you were Wojo? Given the context of that roster.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:18:28 PM
First and foremost, Izzo has NEVER used a player the way Wojo used Howard. And his teams typically win because of that.
You sure about that?
Usage
2018-19 - Markus Howard, 37.4
2016-17 - Nick Ward, 34.1
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 02:43:50 PM
Scholl said he was the perfect coach off the floor. I thought that and a COVID mulligan would offset the on court results. I was wrong. I am surprised but not disappointed.
What would you have done with the Hausers if you were Wojo?
I wish I could answer that, but I don't know. Mainly because, unless I was coaching Cleveland State and had Markus Howard, I would never rely so heavily on one player. It's horrible coaching and never, ever works. That was Wojo's fatal flaw. The Hausers saw it, spoke up, and were squashed under the foot of a dead man walking. Wojo was in the wrong. Leave the Hausers alone.
Quote from: MuggsyB on March 20, 2021, 02:40:39 PM
Did Scholl say he "couldn't control his staff" or that he needed to make changes on the staff?
What's the difference? If you're being told you need to replace people on your staff, you don't control your staff.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:45:51 PM
You sure about that?
Usage
2018-19 - Markus Howard, 37.4
2016-17 - Nick Ward, 34.1
So you went to Izzo's highest usage player of all time on one of his worse teams and couldn't even get within 3 percentage points?
Thanks for proving my point. I appreciate it.
Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2021, 02:24:50 PM
Agreed, no one handled it well.
What would you have done?
No matter how I answer that, you'll simply say "well easier said than done".
If a coach has respect for his team and from his team, then you respect them enough to hear what they have to say (especially when it's as valid as "hey can we reign Markus in a little here") and they respect you enough to accept your decision on it. It was clear that wasn't the case there on either side.
It was obvious to all of us that the Markus Show wasn't sustainable, especially when he was harbored with a bad wrist and continued to fire at will. I personally would have let Markus know that we can't have that, and the results bore that out, down the stretch. If his wrist is really that bad, maybe you rest him a couple games and get him closer to 100%.
But I would have also let Sam and Joey know that I'm the ultimate authority on how we play and they don't dictate all the decisions. Markus is an all-time talent and a huge reason we're as successful as we are. If you're a good coach who's earned the respect of his players, then you'd think it wasn't that hard a bridge to mend. But in our case it was because of our coach.
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
No matter how I answer that, you'll simply say "well easier said than done".
If a coach has respect for his team and from his team, then you respect them enough to hear what they have to say (especially when it's as valid as "hey can we reign Markus in a little here") and they respect you enough to accept your decision on it. It was clear that wasn't the case there on either side.
It was obvious to all of us that the Markus Show wasn't sustainable, especially when he was harbored with a bad wrist and continued to fire at will. I personally would have let Markus know that we can't have that, and the results bore that out, down the stretch. If his wrist is really that bad, maybe you rest him a couple games and get him closer to 100%.
But I would have also let Sam and Joey know that I'm the ultimate authority on how we play and they don't dictate all the decisions. Markus is an all-time talent and a huge reason we're as successful as we are. If you're a good coach who's earned the respect of his players, then you'd think it wasn't that hard a bridge to mend. But in our case it was because of our coach.
Fair.
Wait, the Hauser's are gone????
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
So you went to Izzo's highest usage player of all time on one of his worse teams and couldn't even get within 3 percentage points?
Thanks for proving my point. I appreciate it.
You literally said NEVER. And aren't we comparing highest usage players?
Three percentage points isn't that great.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 02:28:08 PM
You are still viewing it emotionally. Take the Wojo sucks emotion out of it. And creating imaginary dialog? We all agree there was unhappiness. Yes/No?
If you think Sam was embellishing Wojo's comments to my buddy then by all means, you don't have to believe it.
Nothing Wojo has done since would convince me what I was told was wrong.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:48:25 PM
What's the difference? If you're being told you need to replace people on your staff, you don't control your staff.
I guess we just disagree. Scholl isn't the coach. If he told Wojo we need more experience on the staff, or a shake-up, and they agreed I assume Wojo would be part of the process. We already lost Killings.
After those decisions hypothetically were made I don't see how Wojo would not be in control of his assistants.
$5, on the scout board, this was my assessment of Wojo from about a week ago.
On court/game coaching C-
Recruiting B-. Unbalanced, no wings, unused scholarships
Off court A-
Overall: C.
You have your obsession with me and it has provided me with many laughs the last couple of years. But I consider myself a 'meh'-Jo. I am surprised admin pulled the trigger. But not really that upset.
I hope the next guy succeeds. The king is dead. Long live the king.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
You literally said NEVER. And aren't we comparing highest usage players?
Three percentage points isn't that great.
Ok and my point stands. In Izzo's several decades in coaching he has NEVER used a player the way Wojo used Markus. His highest usage player ever was 3 full percentage points less. Is this a hard concept?
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:54:54 PM
If you think Sam was embellishing Wojo's comments to my buddy then by all means, you don't have to believe it.
I was told the same the day the transfer was announced, FWIW.
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey. He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt.
If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension.
He never learned with the Ellensons.
Quote from: The Lens on March 20, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey. He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt.
If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension.
He never learned with the Ellensons.
I agree with this. But he didn't realize, and now he's got to find a job. Hope the next guy can read the room a LOT better.
Joey May be mediocre right now but he was a big time recruit at the time.
Plus Sam never had an issue before Joey came, I doubt there was any reason to be concerned at the time.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 20, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
Joey May be mediocre right now but he was a big time recruit at the time.
Plus Sam never had an issue before Joey came, I doubt there was any reason to be concerned at the time.
Perhaps. But after a couple less-than-ideal brother situations, I'd be surprised if Wojo goes after siblings in the future. Lemme restate that - I'd be surprised if most coaches that have had those situations ever let it become and issue again. Who knows what Wojo took from it.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:38:27 PM
Just like the University was rumored to keep Wojo for next season "cuz COVID finances"? And just like the University was rumored to come out publicly in support of Wojo after the blog article?
Your rumors / theories aren't super reliable anymore, bud.
Is avenue comments also not reliable with his statement on Izzo?
Quote from: The Lens on March 20, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey. He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt.
If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension.
He never learned with the Ellensons.
NCAA adds an extra spot in the Elite 8 because Mrs Hauser writes a letter?
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:47:11 PM
I wish I could answer that, but I don't know. Mainly because, unless I was coaching Cleveland State and had Markus Howard, I would never rely so heavily on one player. It's horrible coaching and never, ever works. That was Wojo's fatal flaw. The Hausers saw it, spoke up, and were squashed under the foot of a dead man walking. Wojo was in the wrong. Leave the Hausers alone.
You fully think the Hauser was fully here to save Marquette. Sam with his Batman utility belt and Joey with the Robin green tights.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 20, 2021, 02:52:13 PM
Wait, the Hauser's are gone????
Possibly. Covid has thrown this whole thing into a mass of confusion.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 20, 2021, 03:25:53 PM
NCAA adds an extra spot in the Elite 8 because Mrs Hauser writes a letter?
She can be very persuasive.
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
No matter how I answer that, you'll simply say "well easier said than done".
If a coach has respect for his team and from his team, then you respect them enough to hear what they have to say (especially when it's as valid as "hey can we reign Markus in a little here") and they respect you enough to accept your decision on it. It was clear that wasn't the case there on either side.
It was obvious to all of us that the Markus Show wasn't sustainable, especially when he was harbored with a bad wrist and continued to fire at will. I personally would have let Markus know that we can't have that, and the results bore that out, down the stretch. If his wrist is really that bad, maybe you rest him a couple games and get him closer to 100%.
But I would have also let Sam and Joey know that I'm the ultimate authority on how we play and they don't dictate all the decisions. Markus is an all-time talent and a huge reason we're as successful as we are. If you're a good coach who's earned the respect of his players, then you'd think it wasn't that hard a bridge to mend. But in our case it was because of our coach.
Well done.
Quote from: The Lens on March 20, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey. He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt.
If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension.
He never learned with the Ellensons.
Bingo.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 20, 2021, 03:39:13 PM
It was in the papers
Rocky was playing war games in the Scoop MiG-29 that day.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 20, 2021, 03:46:26 PM
Rocky was playing war games in the Scoop MiG-29 that day.
I get it. I was at a tournament get together yesterday in a basement where no one can get phone coverage. We found about Wojo getting canned about 2 hours after it happened.
Bad move on both sides.
Asking a coach to change his staff is calling him out. Either keep him or cut him altogether.
Wojo not seeking to make changes indicates he was just happy taking his guaranteed money right out the door.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 20, 2021, 03:50:26 PM
I get it. I was at a tournament get together yesterday in a basement where no one can get phone coverage. We found about Wojo getting canned about 2 hours after it happened.
A just got a google notification about on my phone a couple hours ago.
So for those that didn't have friends texting them real-time (not you rico). Welcome. Wojo was fired yesterday. We have some crazy fans pining for Pitino, but Scholl said yesterday that anyone with NCAA issues wasn't going to be considered. There's other threads about the more realistic options.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 12:02:43 PM
Nope. Every coach wants control over his/her staff, and not to have those personnel decisions being made by the athletic director.
If this happened, Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes. Wojo made a reasonable decision that staff changes are within his purview, not the ADs.
There's no reason anyone needs to be wrong here.
Really, this thread is mostly a bunch people eager to piss on the guy's grave.
Nope. A mature person needs to understand his weaknesses and listen to constructive input, especially when he has been crapping the bed for SEVEN years. He had no leg to stand on, no argument because he failed as a coach and everyone knows he needed help in developing a system, recruiting pieces for that system, game prep, game coaching, and player development.
Short sighted and hopefully he lands in a good place, but I think he he regret this
Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 12:02:43 PM
Nope. Every coach wants control over his/her staff, and not to have those personnel decisions being made by the athletic director.
If this happened, Scholl made a reasonable request for staff changes. Wojo made a reasonable decision that staff changes are within his purview, not the ADs.
There's no reason anyone needs to be wrong here.
Really, this thread is mostly a bunch people eager to piss on the guy's grave.
It what workplace are the employees that work for you solely under your purview with no input from your supervisor?
Wojo's decision wasn't reasonable given his mediocre performance over the last two plus seasons. The era of coach having 100% control over these things is long past.
Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:18:37 PM
Sam also took exception to how things were going, like I said when I first told the board they were transferring. Wojo is the adult in the room and leader of the program, it's on him to manage his team. A hundred coaches deal with things like that every season.
Handling their meeting when they told him they were officially transferring with a "get the unnatural carnal knowledge out of here" (from Sam to my student manager friend who always gave me info) told me all I needed to know about Wojo: that's when I was out. He's a petulant child and I'm thrilled he's no longer affiliated with my alma mater.
I completely believe your friend. It isn't the first time I have heard a version of this. It doesn't fundamentally change the narrative.
(Generic coach X), after being told players Y and Z were transferring, reacted profanely and angrily. What would you expect from (generic coach X)?
So when I look at this, I can't help but think that there were no winners here. The Admin didn't get what they ultimately wanted and that was change from a guy they liked that would have kept them from shelling out 6-9M this year. Wojo didn't get to keep his job and go out on his terms so in that respect, neither accomplished their primary objective.
People will say that Wojo got his buyout and that's great but I hardly feel that he looks at his career the same way all of us do. For the hyper-competitive person you have to be to be a P6 College Basketball coach, the buyout is nice but getting canned because you weren't cutting is stings far more and it will stick with him. He'll be asked in future interviews, his performance at MU will be critiqued long into the future and it will burn. He didn't get fired for scandal, he didn't get fired because he couldn't recruit talent, he got canned because he wasn't a good coach. He's more of a CBB General Manager. He can run a clean program and pick the players and bring them in, he just can't develop players or coach. Right now, that skillset doesn't exist in CBB for 2.3M a year. Coaches have to coach. He can't and everyone pretty much knows that now. He's got a stigma and for a competitive guy, 6-9M doesn't wash that away.
The School looks like a winner because they finally did something but when you factor in that they put themselves in this position by extending him 2 years ago, they contributed to this mess. They also have been coming across like they really had no idea (until the last week or so) that the fanbase either had such vitriol and angst toward Wojo and his non-accomplishments or had withdrawn to indifference. I applaud their decision to move on but I wish the school did a little bit more in terms of reading the tea leaves. The calls for Wojo's removal didn't just start with the loss to GTown in the BET this year. It's a costly reminder to the school that when your success factors do not appear to align with your fanbase, (Fanbase always prioritizes winning over everything else) there are going to be deep fractures.
"I'm happy we consistently finish in the bottom of the Big East because we are scandal free." - Said no one ever.
I'm not advocating for breaking rules. I'm advocating for winning and ultimately, every school should prioritize winning clean. It's great that we run a clean program, but we're not winning and the reason we aren't winning is not because our program is clean. I got the impression from Scholl in his news conference yesterday that he seemed out of touch with the results of the program simply because he said he never had to worry about whether we were doing anything wrong or something to that matter. In Scholl's case, if the only thing that gets him involved is when we break the rules, then he's not the right guy either. That may be a discussion for another day.
Both sides lost here and are going to have to do a lot of work repairing the damage they have done. Wojo has damaged his career and the school needs to do a better job showing the fans that they are paying attention to the results.
Quote from: DFW HOYA on March 20, 2021, 03:56:17 PM
Bad move on both sides.
Asking a coach to change his staff is calling him out. Either keep him or cut him altogether.
Wojo not seeking to make changes indicates he was just happy taking his guaranteed money right out the door.
The same thing seems to have happened at Louisville. The difference is Chris Mack still has a job and Dino Gaudio and Luke Murray do not.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 20, 2021, 04:58:03 PM
The same thing seems to have happened at Louisville. The difference is Chris Mack still has a job and Dino Gaudio and Luke Murray do not.
Right, it all depends on your perspective. As a fan, I kind of appreciate what Mack did. As a person (or one of the assistants), I'd rather my boss have my back and take the fall himself. 6 one, half dozer the other.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 04:46:51 PM
I completely believe your friend. It isn't the first time I have heard a version of this. It doesn't fundamentally change the narrative.
(Generic coach X), after being told players Y and Z were transferring, reacted profanely and angrily. What would you expect from (generic coach X)?
Tower after the end has come, still defending Wojo-Dukiet.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 20, 2021, 05:02:18 PM
Right, it all depends on your perspective. As a fan, I kind of appreciate what Mack did. As a person (or one of the assistants), I'd rather my boss have my back and take the fall himself. 6 one, half dozer the other.
Honestly, I think there's a middle ground I would've liked to see. If I'm Wojo, I've already got an opening with Killings gone. You talk to Jake and try to find him a place on another staff, whether high-major or mid, just somewhere that's a softer landing spot. Then you work with Bill to improve your staff. It's also possible there was a compromise where Wojo just replaced Killings with someone Scholl approved of, but Wojo wanted to either promote one of his guys or bring in another young recruiter. That's pretty stubborn when you already have an opening.
The idea that he got fired because of Jake is kind of silly. I imagine it sucked for Jake to watch Jeff Goodman break that news today on the Best Bets podcast and know that although Goody didn't name him, he was the person Goodman was talking about (and yes, I know for certain Jake was watching the stream live).
Quote from: joparks on March 20, 2021, 04:56:49 PM
So when I look at this, I can't help but think that there were no winners here. The Admin didn't get what they ultimately wanted and that was change from a guy they liked that would have kept them from shelling out 6-9M this year. Wojo didn't get to keep his job and go out on his terms so in that respect, neither accomplished their primary objective.
People will say that Wojo got his buyout and that's great but I hardly feel that he looks at his career the same way all of us do. For the hyper-competitive person you have to be to be a P6 College Basketball coach, the buyout is nice but getting canned because you weren't cutting is stings far more and it will stick with him. He'll be asked in future interviews, his performance at MU will be critiqued long into the future and it will burn. He didn't get fired for scandal, he didn't get fired because he couldn't recruit talent, he got canned because he wasn't a good coach. He's more of a CBB General Manager. He can run a clean program and pick the players and bring them in, he just can't develop players or coach. Right now, that skillset doesn't exist in CBB for 2.3M a year. Coaches have to coach. He can't and everyone pretty much knows that now. He's got a stigma and for a competitive guy, 6-9M doesn't wash that away.
The School looks like a winner because they finally did something but when you factor in that they put themselves in this position by extending him 2 years ago, they contributed to this mess. They also have been coming across like they really had no idea (until the last week or so) that the fanbase either had such vitriol and angst toward Wojo and his non-accomplishments or had withdrawn to indifference. I applaud their decision to move on but I wish the school did a little bit more in terms of reading the tea leaves. The calls for Wojo's removal didn't just start with the loss to GTown in the BET this year. It's a costly reminder to the school that when your success factors do not appear to align with your fanbase, (Fanbase always prioritizes winning over everything else) there are going to be deep fractures.
"I'm happy we consistently finish in the bottom of the Big East because we are scandal free." - Said no one ever.
I'm not advocating for breaking rules. I'm advocating for winning and ultimately, every school should prioritize winning clean. It's great that we run a clean program, but we're not winning and the reason we aren't winning is not because our program is clean. I got the impression from Scholl in his news conference yesterday that he seemed out of touch with the results of the program simply because he said he never had to worry about whether we were doing anything wrong or something to that matter. In Scholl's case, if the only thing that gets him involved is when we break the rules, then he's not the right guy either. That may be a discussion for another day.
Both sides lost here and are going to have to do a lot of work repairing the damage they have done. Wojo has damaged his career and the school needs to do a better job showing the fans that they are paying attention to the results.
Very good post. Thanks.
Quote from: joparks on March 20, 2021, 04:56:49 PM
Both sides lost here and are going to have to do a lot of work repairing the damage they have done. Wojo has damaged his career and the school needs to do a better job showing the fans that they are paying attention to the results.
Very, very well written.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 20, 2021, 05:10:58 PM
Tower after the end has come, still defending Wojo-Dukiet.
Willie, after all these years, still being Willie. Never stop.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 05:17:18 PM
Willie, after all these years, still being Willie. Never stop.
I'm just looking forward to willie unleashing his middle school insults on the next coach around the first of the year.
And, anybody who doesn't trash that coach on every post being labeled a slurper. That never ceases to make me laugh. He's hysterical.
Why wait. I demand Willie call for the new coach's dismissal immediately! We need consistency amongst the change.
Quote from: joparks on March 20, 2021, 04:56:49 PM
So when I look at this, I can't help but think that there were no winners here. The Admin didn't get what they ultimately wanted and that was change from a guy they liked that would have kept them from shelling out 6-9M this year. Wojo didn't get to keep his job and go out on his terms so in that respect, neither accomplished their primary objective.
People will say that Wojo got his buyout and that's great but I hardly feel that he looks at his career the same way all of us do. For the hyper-competitive person you have to be to be a P6 College Basketball coach, the buyout is nice but getting canned because you weren't cutting is stings far more and it will stick with him. He'll be asked in future interviews, his performance at MU will be critiqued long into the future and it will burn. He didn't get fired for scandal, he didn't get fired because he couldn't recruit talent, he got canned because he wasn't a good coach. He's more of a CBB General Manager. He can run a clean program and pick the players and bring them in, he just can't develop players or coach. Right now, that skillset doesn't exist in CBB for 2.3M a year. Coaches have to coach. He can't and everyone pretty much knows that now. He's got a stigma and for a competitive guy, 6-9M doesn't wash that away.
The School looks like a winner because they finally did something but when you factor in that they put themselves in this position by extending him 2 years ago, they contributed to this mess. They also have been coming across like they really had no idea (until the last week or so) that the fanbase either had such vitriol and angst toward Wojo and his non-accomplishments or had withdrawn to indifference. I applaud their decision to move on but I wish the school did a little bit more in terms of reading the tea leaves. The calls for Wojo's removal didn't just start with the loss to GTown in the BET this year. It's a costly reminder to the school that when your success factors do not appear to align with your fanbase, (Fanbase always prioritizes winning over everything else) there are going to be deep fractures.
"I'm happy we consistently finish in the bottom of the Big East because we are scandal free." - Said no one ever.
I'm not advocating for breaking rules. I'm advocating for winning and ultimately, every school should prioritize winning clean. It's great that we run a clean program, but we're not winning and the reason we aren't winning is not because our program is clean. I got the impression from Scholl in his news conference yesterday that he seemed out of touch with the results of the program simply because he said he never had to worry about whether we were doing anything wrong or something to that matter. In Scholl's case, if the only thing that gets him involved is when we break the rules, then he's not the right guy either. That may be a discussion for another day.
Both sides lost here and are going to have to do a lot of work repairing the damage they have done. Wojo has damaged his career and the school needs to do a better job showing the fans that they are paying attention to the results.
Yep.
I just hope Scholl is a lot better at hiring than he is at firing.
I just want to get back to the days of arguing wether Marquette is a stepping stone if we get a successful coach who is rumored to half the jobs across the country every season.
I have a great deal of skepticism over this story. If true it requires so much cluelessness by so many that it is like a low grade seventies coming of age comedy. Possible, sure, but so unlikely it strains credulity.
Quote from: connie on March 20, 2021, 05:28:49 PM
Why wait. I demand Willie call for the new coach's dismissal immediately! We need consistency amongst the change.
He (nearly) promised 3 years to judge!
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61660.msg1325564#msg1325564
Quote from: connie on March 20, 2021, 05:33:29 PM
I have a great deal of skepticism over this story. If true it requires so much cluelessness by so many that it is like a low grade seventies coming of age comedy. Possible, sure, but so unlikely it strains credulity.
Agree, it may have been a contributing factor as to why Wojo was terminated but if Scholl actually gave Wojo a choice then Scholl is a moron.
This all seems like a story that satisfies donors that liked Wojo and wanted to give him a last chance — as well as paints Wojo standing up for himself. So a good story to leak.
Quote from: CountryRoads on March 20, 2021, 05:42:08 PM
Agree, it may have been a contributing factor as to why Wojo was terminated but if Scholl actually gave Wojo a choice then Scholl is a moron.
It's very clear that MU wanted him to improve because they didn't want to have to pay up. I doubt this was a Scholl only call.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 20, 2021, 05:34:08 PM
He (nearly) promised 3 years to judge!
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=61660.msg1325564#msg1325564
Keep that link handy!
What coach said that it's fine to get fired for cheating, but getting fired for losing is the worst thing that can happen for a coach's career? I hate that Wojo walked away with such a fat buyout and we lost seven years of fandom watching his crappy teams, but at least he's now the coaching equivalent of a cuck.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 04:46:51 PM
I completely believe your friend. It isn't the first time I have heard a version of this. It doesn't fundamentally change the narrative.
(Generic coach X), after being told players Y and Z were transferring, reacted profanely and angrily. What would you expect from (generic coach X)?
Players Y and Z were not happy with how things were run, wrote a letter expressing that to Coach X. Players Y and Z deserved to be booted off the team, yet we shrug our shoulders at the actions of Coach X?
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 20, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
What coach said that it's fine to get fired for cheating, but getting fired for losing is the worst thing that can happen for a coach's career? I hate that Wojo walked away with such a fat buyout and we lost seven years of fandom watching his crappy teams, but at least he's now the coaching equivalent of a cuck.
Huh? He also had great recruiting classes, had exciting teams, we were ranked. Not what anyone including Wojo wanted, but this story line that it was a seven year DISASTER needs to stop.
Substitute Coach O'Neil. How many f bombs would players Y and Z get?
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 06:26:17 PM
Huh? He also had great recruiting classes, had exciting teams, we were ranked. Not what anyone including Wojo wanted, but this story line that it was a seven year DISASTER needs to stop.
Agree Wojo wasn't a disaster. Dukiet was a disaster. Those were the true dark days of MU basketball. Wojo had a few highs, some impressive wins, quality players. We were mid major during the Dukiet years.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 06:26:17 PM
Huh? He also had great recruiting classes, had exciting teams, we were ranked. Not what anyone including Wojo wanted, but this story line that it was a seven year DISASTER needs to stop.
We were ranked for a good portion of 2018-19. I'm not sure we received a single top 25 vote in Wojo's first 4 seasons. We may have been ranked for a week or two in season 6, but if we were, it wasn't for long and I don't remember it. For a program like Marquette, that's pathetic.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 06:27:13 PM
Substitute Coach O'Neil. How many f bombs would players Y and Z get?
O'Neill never had players writing letters. Wojo failed to manage the situation. Let it go.
Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 06:27:13 PM
Substitute Coach O'Neil. How many f bombs would players Y and Z get?
Tower, you're an intelligent guy and passionate fan. But I disagree with your focus on the power struggle aspect. There were better ways to coach this team, regardless of who brought them up.
Thanks. And we agree there were better ways to handle the conflict.
tower - I respect your passion and appreciate your comments over the years. Wojo wasn't' the guy. Honestly, given his background, I'm not sure why? But I am optimistic about the future.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 20, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
What coach said that it's fine to get fired for cheating, but getting fired for losing is the worst thing that can happen for a coach's career? I hate that Wojo walked away with such a fat buyout and we lost seven years of fandom watching his crappy teams, but at least he's now the coaching equivalent of a cuck.
I would think history would suggest that if you get canned for cheating, there are still some universities willing to explore you because while you did cheat, you still won. If you are not a good coach (didn't win), how do you spin that? I had all this talent and couldn't put it together. There are many examples of bad coaches never getting another opportunity or a limited opportunity (small school, small dollars). In Wojo's case, it gets harder to defend his record because he recruited good talent and had 7 years and yet, didn't produce results. Many on this board have said they can't see why another P6 school would consider Wojo, yet these same people are more than willing to kick the tires on a Pitino. Also working against Wojo are the results of other coaches that came from the same tree. A lot more failure than success so Wojo has to attack 2 narratives in this case.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 20, 2021, 05:45:53 PM
It's very clear that MU wanted him to improve because they didn't want to have to pay up. I doubt this was a Scholl only call.
Just so you know, MU did not pay up, a very wealthy alumni did.
Given what apparently transpired, Wojo should go work for a guy other than K. Learn some new tricks.
Again, I consider myself a 'meh'-Jo. I am not disappointed he is gone. I disagree with the board Zeitgeist of the root and blame of the Hauser saga. I agree it was handled poorly.
Moot point now. I hope the next guy succeeds.
Quote from: warriorfred on March 20, 2021, 06:47:06 PM
tower - I respect your passion and appreciate your comments over the years. Wojo wasn't' the guy. Honestly, given his background, I'm not sure why? But I am optimistic about the future.
Wojo lack the diversity of varied experiences. He knew one program his entire coaching career. He would have benefited in his coaching development to have worked at other programs and under other coaches, especially early in his career.
Did Crean bring in Buzz or the administration. I recall it as the administration but am not sure
Quote from: RJax55 on March 20, 2021, 06:55:43 PM
Wojo lack the diversity of varied experiences. He knew one program his entire coaching career. He would have benefited in his coaching development to have worked at other programs and under other coaches, especially early in his career.
I agree with this and made a similar point when he was hired.
Quote from: joparks on March 20, 2021, 06:49:52 PM
I would think history would suggest that if you get canned for cheating, there are still some universities willing to explore you because while you did cheat, you still won. If you are not a good coach (didn't win), how do you spin that? I had all this talent and couldn't put it together. There are many examples of bad coaches never getting another opportunity or a limited opportunity (small school, small dollars). In Wojo's case, it gets harder to defend his record because he recruited good talent and had 7 years and yet, didn't produce results. Many on this board have said they can't see why another P6 school would consider Wojo, yet these same people are more than willing to kick the tires on a Pitino. Also working against Wojo are the results of other coaches that came from the same tree. A lot more failure than success so Wojo has to attack 2 narratives in this case.
I think he could say "well with a very young team we got 20 wins then despite losing the best player we followed it up with a tournament appearance. The next year was rebuilding but if you look at the math we would've been in with NET. Next year was a great year I just mishandled some locker room in fighting and I've learned from my mistakes. Unfortunately the following year I was caught with an unbalanced roster but still had us in a tournament position at the end of the season."
He's the biggest projo of them all.
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on March 20, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
Did Crean bring in Buzz or the administration. I recall it as the administration but am not sure
I think it was TC. How would the admins know Buzz.
Quote from: joparks on March 20, 2021, 06:49:52 PM
If you are not a good coach (didn't win), how do you spin that?
Ask Kliff Kingsbury!
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 20, 2021, 06:26:17 PM
Huh? He also had great recruiting classes, had exciting teams, we were ranked. Not what anyone including Wojo wanted, but this story line that it was a seven year DISASTER needs to stop.
I guess it comes down to expectations. I didn't value the things you mentioned here as much as improving throughout the year, winning in February and winning in March. In fact very little of that was actually accomplished. I think many people on this board felt the same way which is why as time went on, more and more people acknowledged that he wasn't the right guy for the job. The fact he missed the mark so badly in some areas and it took 7 years to move on, that is a disaster.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 20, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
What coach said that it's fine to get fired for cheating, but getting fired for losing is the worst thing that can happen for a coach's career? I hate that Wojo walked away with such a fat buyout and we lost seven years of fandom watching his crappy teams, but at least he's now the coaching equivalent of a cuck.
WTF does this even mean?
Quote from: MarquetteMike1977 on March 20, 2021, 06:56:14 PM
Did Crean bring in Buzz or the administration. I recall it as the administration but am not sure
I'm pretty sure the admin brought in Jerry Wainwright. That was a really strong addition for the time. If I'm wrong then just another savvy Buzz move.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 20, 2021, 06:33:11 PM
We were ranked for a good portion of 2018-19. I'm not sure we received a single top 25 vote in Wojo's first 4 seasons. We may have been ranked for a week or two in season 6, but if we were, it wasn't for long and I don't remember it. For a program like Marquette, that's pathetic.
+1
"We were ranked once or twice in seven years" is a reach of a compliment. The Wojo era wasn't DePaul-bad but it's fair to call it a disaster.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 20, 2021, 07:18:07 PM
WTF does this even mean?
Nobody knows what it means but it's provocative
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2021, 07:11:15 PM
Ask Kliff Kingsbury!
In Cliff's case, the hot criteria that offseason was whether you were friends with Sean McVay, so he luckily may not have had to spin it.
The Hauser were so "right" about Wojo that they went to Hall of Fame coaches with legendary coaches and wound up with as many NCAA Tournament wins as Wojo did.
They did an excellent job on hiring the woman's coach. And in the NCAA very soon. I their hire does that well we all will be content
Quote from: WithoutBias on March 20, 2021, 08:01:30 PM
The Hauser were so "right" about Wojo that they went to Hall of Fame coaches with legendary coaches and wound up with as many NCAA Tournament wins as Wojo did.
Two coaches who reportedly said they would handle it the same way.
Quote from: WithoutBias on March 20, 2021, 08:01:30 PM
The Hauser were so "right" about Wojo that they went to Hall of Fame coaches with legendary coaches and wound up with as many NCAA Tournament wins as Wojo did.
Good move by the Hauser boys. Appears to really be paying off for them.
If the Hausers wanted to lose first round tourney games, they could've just stayed.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 20, 2021, 10:28:51 AM
https://twitter.com/GoodmanHoops/status/1373279911230734336?s=19
Scroll to 37 min
That was an intruging listen.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 20, 2021, 08:23:40 PM
If the Hausers wanted to lose first round tourney games, they could've just stayed.
🤣🤣🤣
Quote from: Small Orange Soda on March 20, 2021, 10:48:58 AM
How big of a shakeup was he being asked to do? He already had to replace Killings anyway. I'd think it was more Wojo not wanting to have Scholl's input than loyalty to his guys, unless he was asked to clean house.
Seems like the consensus of this board since day 1 when he was hired, he should have kept Jerry Wainwright on the staff.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 20, 2021, 06:16:05 PM
What coach said that it's fine to get fired for cheating, but getting fired for losing is the worst thing that can happen for a coach's career?
Who is that quote from?
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 20, 2021, 08:23:40 PM
If the Hausers wanted to lose first round tourney games, they could've just stayed.
They wanted to play basketball. They weren't doing that at Marquette.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 20, 2021, 08:54:11 PM
They wanted to play basketball. They weren't doing that at Marquette.
Oh. We added them to the soccer team?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 20, 2021, 08:54:11 PM
They wanted to play basketball. They weren't doing that at Marquette.
Sam just finished his worst career offensive rating season. Glad he got to play basketball though.
Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2021, 09:00:09 PM
Sam just finished his worst career offensive rating season. Glad he got to play basketball though.
Me, too.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 20, 2021, 08:33:44 PM
That was an intruging listen.
Shaka is again using MU for more money. He's truly playing fire, as I don't think Doc Rivers is going to take lightly the fact that his name is again mentioned with MU.
The salt continues. They left because they saw that wojo was bad. They both played in the tournament. Meanwhile Marquette just went under 500.
Quote from: swoopem on March 20, 2021, 10:14:41 AM
The fact that he thought he was doing a good job is insane
I was in the corporate world many many years. My advice to all I hired was to always ask their boss (whether me or later someone else) how they were doing and what could they do to improve. You get one of two answers: 1) you are doing great. Keep it up. Or 2) here is what you need to work on....... either way, you are much better off. If 1, great. If 2 you know what to do to improve.
Wojo should have been doing that.