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tower912

#125
Scholl said he was the perfect coach off the floor.   I thought that and a COVID mulligan would offset the on court results.  I was wrong.  I am surprised but not disappointed.

What would you have done with the Hausers if you were Wojo?    Given the context of that roster.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Pakuni

Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:18:28 PM
First and foremost, Izzo has NEVER used a player the way Wojo used Howard. And his teams typically win because of that.

You sure about that?
Usage
2018-19 - Markus Howard, 37.4
2016-17 - Nick Ward, 34.1

5DollarPitcher

Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 02:43:50 PM
Scholl said he was the perfect coach off the floor.   I thought that and a COVID mulligan would offset the on court results.  I was wrong.  I am surprised but not disappointed.

What would you have done with the Hausers if you were Wojo?
I wish I could answer that, but I don't know. Mainly because, unless I was coaching Cleveland State and had Markus Howard, I would never rely so heavily on one player. It's horrible coaching and never, ever works. That was Wojo's fatal flaw. The Hausers saw it, spoke up, and were squashed under the foot of a dead man walking. Wojo was in the wrong. Leave the Hausers alone.

Pakuni

Quote from: MuggsyB on March 20, 2021, 02:40:39 PM
Did Scholl say he "couldn't control his staff" or that he needed to make changes on the staff?

What's the difference? If you're being told you need to replace people on your staff, you don't control your staff.

5DollarPitcher

Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:45:51 PM
You sure about that?
Usage
2018-19 - Markus Howard, 37.4
2016-17 - Nick Ward, 34.1
So you went to Izzo's highest usage player of all time on one of his worse teams and couldn't even get within 3 percentage points?

Thanks for proving my point. I appreciate it.

onepost

Quote from: Retire0 on March 20, 2021, 02:24:50 PM
Agreed, no one handled it well.

What would you have done?

No matter how I answer that, you'll simply say "well easier said than done".

If a coach has respect for his team and from his team, then you respect them enough to hear what they have to say (especially when it's as valid as "hey can we reign Markus in a little here") and they respect you enough to accept your decision on it.  It was clear that wasn't the case there on either side.

It was obvious to all of us that the Markus Show wasn't sustainable, especially when he was harbored with a bad wrist and continued to fire at will.  I personally would have let Markus know that we can't have that, and the results bore that out, down the stretch.  If his wrist is really that bad, maybe you rest him a couple games and get him closer to 100%.

But I would have also let Sam and Joey know that I'm the ultimate authority on how we play and they don't dictate all the decisions.  Markus is an all-time talent and a huge reason we're as successful as we are.  If you're a good coach who's earned the respect of his players, then you'd think it wasn't that hard a bridge to mend.  But in our case it was because of our coach.

tower912

Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
No matter how I answer that, you'll simply say "well easier said than done".

If a coach has respect for his team and from his team, then you respect them enough to hear what they have to say (especially when it's as valid as "hey can we reign Markus in a little here") and they respect you enough to accept your decision on it.  It was clear that wasn't the case there on either side.

It was obvious to all of us that the Markus Show wasn't sustainable, especially when he was harbored with a bad wrist and continued to fire at will.  I personally would have let Markus know that we can't have that, and the results bore that out, down the stretch.  If his wrist is really that bad, maybe you rest him a couple games and get him closer to 100%.

But I would have also let Sam and Joey know that I'm the ultimate authority on how we play and they don't dictate all the decisions.  Markus is an all-time talent and a huge reason we're as successful as we are.  If you're a good coach who's earned the respect of his players, then you'd think it wasn't that hard a bridge to mend.  But in our case it was because of our coach.
Fair.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

rocky_warrior


Pakuni

Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:49:04 PM
So you went to Izzo's highest usage player of all time on one of his worse teams and couldn't even get within 3 percentage points?

Thanks for proving my point. I appreciate it.

You literally said NEVER. And aren't we comparing highest usage players?
Three percentage points isn't that great.

onepost

Quote from: tower912 on March 20, 2021, 02:28:08 PM
You are still viewing it emotionally.  Take the Wojo sucks emotion out of it. And creating imaginary dialog?  We all agree there was unhappiness.  Yes/No?

If you think Sam was embellishing Wojo's comments to my buddy then by all means, you don't have to believe it.
Nothing Wojo has done since would convince me what I was told was wrong.

MuggsyB

Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:48:25 PM
What's the difference? If you're being told you need to replace people on your staff, you don't control your staff.

I guess we just disagree.  Scholl isn't the coach.  If he told Wojo we need more experience on the staff, or a shake-up, and they agreed I assume Wojo would be part of the process.  We already lost Killings.
After those decisions hypothetically were made I don't see how Wojo would not be in control of his assistants.

tower912

$5,  on the scout board, this was my assessment of Wojo from about a week ago.

On court/game coaching C-
Recruiting B-.  Unbalanced, no wings, unused scholarships
Off court A-

Overall: C.   

You have your obsession with me and it has provided me with many laughs the last couple of years.   But I consider myself a 'meh'-Jo.   I am surprised admin pulled the trigger.  But not really that upset.   

I hope the next guy succeeds.   The king is dead.   Long live the king.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

5DollarPitcher

Quote from: Pakuni on March 20, 2021, 02:53:45 PM
You literally said NEVER. And aren't we comparing highest usage players?
Three percentage points isn't that great.
Ok and my point stands. In Izzo's several decades in coaching he has NEVER used a player the way Wojo used Markus. His highest usage player ever was 3 full percentage points less. Is this a hard concept?

MUfan12

Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:54:54 PM
If you think Sam was embellishing Wojo's comments to my buddy then by all means, you don't have to believe it.

I was told the same the day the transfer was announced, FWIW.

The Lens

Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey.  He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt. 

If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension. 

He never learned with the Ellensons. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

rocky_warrior

#140
Quote from: The Lens on March 20, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey.  He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt. 

If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension. 

He never learned with the Ellensons.

I agree with this.  But he didn't realize, and now he's got to find a job.  Hope the next guy can read the room a LOT better.

ChitownSpaceForRent

Joey May be mediocre right now but he was a big time recruit at the time.

Plus Sam never had an issue before Joey came, I doubt there was any reason to be concerned at the time.

rocky_warrior

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 20, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
Joey May be mediocre right now but he was a big time recruit at the time.

Plus Sam never had an issue before Joey came, I doubt there was any reason to be concerned at the time.

Perhaps.  But after a couple less-than-ideal brother situations, I'd be surprised if Wojo goes after siblings in the future.  Lemme restate that - I'd be surprised if most coaches that have had those situations ever let it become and issue again.  Who knows what Wojo took from it.

jesmu84

Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:38:27 PM
Just like the University was rumored to keep Wojo for next season "cuz COVID finances"? And just like the University was rumored to come out publicly in support of Wojo after the blog article?

Your rumors / theories aren't super reliable anymore, bud.

Is avenue comments also not reliable with his statement on Izzo?

Galway Eagle

Quote from: The Lens on March 20, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey.  He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt. 

If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension. 

He never learned with the Ellensons.

NCAA adds an extra spot in the Elite 8 because Mrs Hauser writes a letter?
Retire Terry Rand's jersey!

🏀

Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 20, 2021, 02:47:11 PM
I wish I could answer that, but I don't know. Mainly because, unless I was coaching Cleveland State and had Markus Howard, I would never rely so heavily on one player. It's horrible coaching and never, ever works. That was Wojo's fatal flaw. The Hausers saw it, spoke up, and were squashed under the foot of a dead man walking. Wojo was in the wrong. Leave the Hausers alone.

You fully think the Hauser was fully here to save Marquette. Sam with his Batman utility belt and Joey with the Robin green tights.

GooooMarquette

Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 20, 2021, 02:52:13 PM
Wait, the Hauser's are gone????


Possibly. Covid has thrown this whole thing into a mass of confusion.

GooooMarquette

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 20, 2021, 03:25:53 PM
NCAA adds an extra spot in the Elite 8 because Mrs Hauser writes a letter?



She can be very persuasive.

🏀

Quote from: onepostdavis on March 20, 2021, 02:49:18 PM
No matter how I answer that, you'll simply say "well easier said than done".

If a coach has respect for his team and from his team, then you respect them enough to hear what they have to say (especially when it's as valid as "hey can we reign Markus in a little here") and they respect you enough to accept your decision on it.  It was clear that wasn't the case there on either side.

It was obvious to all of us that the Markus Show wasn't sustainable, especially when he was harbored with a bad wrist and continued to fire at will.  I personally would have let Markus know that we can't have that, and the results bore that out, down the stretch.  If his wrist is really that bad, maybe you rest him a couple games and get him closer to 100%.

But I would have also let Sam and Joey know that I'm the ultimate authority on how we play and they don't dictate all the decisions.  Markus is an all-time talent and a huge reason we're as successful as we are.  If you're a good coach who's earned the respect of his players, then you'd think it wasn't that hard a bridge to mend.  But in our case it was because of our coach.

Well done.

🏀

Quote from: The Lens on March 20, 2021, 03:19:14 PM
Wojo's biggest problem was his continued recruitment of Joey.  He should have been able to read the room that Joey didn't want to come to MU he should have cut bait. But he kept recruiting and then doubled down by having him Gray shirt. 

If Joey goes to MSU straight from SPASH, we maybe have a S16 & E9 and Wojo has an extension. 

He never learned with the Ellensons. 

Bingo.

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