It will be interesting to see what Labron does tonight. I hope he stays in Cleveland just because I'm not a big fan... If the Heat can put a few role players around those two they should be contenders. At the very least, it should be much more interesting to watch Wade for the first time in two years.
Quote from: avid1010 on July 07, 2010, 06:38:27 AM
It will be interesting to see what Labron does tonight. I hope he stays in Cleveland just because I'm not a big fan... If the Heat can put a few role players around those two they should be contenders. At the very least, it should be much more interesting to watch Wade for the first time in two years.
Look for LeBron to stay and for this whole media-generated free agent frenzy to be a bust.
The big losers in this whole mess are the Bulls who will miss out on Bosh and LBJ/Wade and potentially end up with Boozer and Korver.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 07, 2010, 07:42:49 AM
Look for LeBron to stay and for this whole media-generated free agent frenzy to be a bust.
The big losers in this whole mess are the Bulls who will miss out on Bosh and LBJ/Wade and potentially end up with Boozer and Korver.
As long as they don't overpay for those guys. And isn't Taj Gibson basically a younger Boozer?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 07, 2010, 07:42:49 AM
The big losers in this whole mess are the Bulls who will miss out on Bosh and LBJ/Wade and potentially end up with Boozer and Korver.
And overpay for them on top of it.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 07, 2010, 07:42:49 AM
Look for LeBron to stay and for this whole media-generated free agent frenzy to be a bust.
The big losers in this whole mess are the Bulls who will miss out on Bosh and LBJ/Wade and potentially end up with Boozer and Korver.
Yes, a big bust and now LBJ is going to have an hour special on Thursday night on ESPN to announce his decision. Only big news would be if the Heat trade Beasley and I believe they would then have the numbers for LBJ. Now that would be a story, but I don't see that happening.
LeBron requesting a one hour "special" on Thursday night to announce... gimme a break!!! Such a pre-madonna, I'm just getting kinda sick of that aspect... and I'm a Cleveland fan!!! Now of course I'm praying he stays, but the egos in the NBA are pretty unbelievable sometimes.
Wade & Bosh in Miami puts them in a nice spot, but they should still take it slow and work to build around them more if they don't land LeBron as well, so that they can truly contend for a Championship in about 3 years... if they get LeBron watch out right now
Quote from: nyg on July 07, 2010, 07:52:04 AM
Yes, a big bust and now LBJ is going to have an hour special on Thursday night on ESPN to announce his decision. Only big news would be if the Heat trade Beasley and I believe they would then have the numbers for LBJ. Now that would be a story, but I don't see that happening.
It's at least been "reported" that Toronto was not at all interested in such a trade with Miami, but the heck knows?!
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/heat/espn-report-dwayne-wade-and-chris-bosh-will-789505.html
This article is pretty good and explains the possible "sign and trade" with Toronto. The money these guys are getting is insane.
Quote from: nyg on July 07, 2010, 07:58:56 AM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/heat/espn-report-dwayne-wade-and-chris-bosh-will-789505.html
This article is pretty good and explains the possible "sign and trade" with Toronto. The money these guys are getting is insane.
Local paper can't spell Dwyane. Fail!
Quote from: The Man in Gold on July 07, 2010, 08:01:17 AM
Local paper can't spell Dwyane. Fail!
Small point, if you look at the byline, it is from the Sun-Sentinal. The Fort Lauderdale paper. They share resources now. The Post used to be one of the best sports sections in the nation. Now, not so much.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 07, 2010, 07:42:49 AM
Look for LeBron to stay and for this whole media-generated free agent frenzy to be a bust.
The big losers in this whole mess are the Bulls who will miss out on Bosh and LBJ/Wade and potentially end up with Boozer and Korver.
Not sure how the Bulls come away as the big losers in this. Knicks dismantled their entire roster on purpose for 2 years and won't come away with LBJ. Bulls have Rose (borderline top 10 player currently, will be top 5/top 10 player in 2 years) and Noah. A quality, young big man and a stud young PG, tough to beat that going forward.
If Boozer and Korver/Reddick come to Chicago, that's as solid a team in the East as any. It's not LBJ/Wade/Bosh, but that Bulls team contends in the East. What would Cleveland have around LBJ? What does Miami have outside Wade/Bosh? 2 teams to worry about down the line are Washington and New Jersey.
Under the current CBA, your best bet from a financial standpoint is always to sign with your original team. LBJ/Wade/Bosh all romanticized about the three of them playing with each other, and at the end of the day, they all didn't want the same thing. Can't blame team a team like the Bulls with a solid young nucleus in place for going after these guys, well worth the shot. Bulls still very much in contention to be very good going forward.
Bulls will beat this Heat team.
QuoteBulls will beat this Heat team.
Doubtful
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on July 07, 2010, 09:12:10 AM
Doubtful
Considering the Heat literally have only 3 people signed on their roster right now, I'd say the Bulls could beat them 5 on 3.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on July 07, 2010, 09:12:10 AM
Doubtful
Bosh is a big SF. If Bulls get Boozer, then they have the better frontline collectively.
Wade/Bosh is not the next Stockton/Malone or Kobe/Shaq or Wade/Shaq. The East will belong to Boston, Orlando, and Cleveland next year again.
It is going to be interesting.
A very driven Wade and playoff hungry bosh can carry a lot of weight.
I am sure they will retain Mario and Haslem as well.
I am very anxious to see who fills out the Heat Roster
Why not David Lee to Chicago? Higher efficiency, younger, better rebounding/scoring stats than Boozer. Also seen as a hustle guy who "has been working on his 3pt shot this summer." He would be a very nice pick & roll/pop option with Rose. He's not as glorified as the "Big Three," Boozer, & Stoudamire, but he has the numbers to backup his case as an elite.
I believe that LeBron will also be going to Wade's house in Miami.
Riley will still be able to get some role players to come in: Haslem; possibly Ray Allen or even Iverson, etc. They could also go after Raymon Felton. Likely Beasley will be off-loaded.
Miami also drafted three solid rookies in 2nd round.
Do not underestimate Pat Riley!!!
Quote from: MUCrew on July 07, 2010, 09:29:19 AM
Why not David Lee to Chicago? Higher efficiency, younger, better rebounding/scoring stats than Boozer. Also seen as a hustle guy who "has been working on his 3pt shot this summer." He would be a very nice pick & roll/pop option with Rose. He's not as glorified as the "Big Three," Boozer, & Stoudamire, but he has the numbers to backup his case as an elite.
because he played in a d'antoni offense that pushed his stats up about 25-30% across the board. PLus david lee is probably the worst defensive post player in the league. He's not worth max money, but that's pretty much what he's gonna get now that he has all the leverage in the world over chicago, NJ, LAC, etc. Go get Boozer and a shooter, preferably redick. And why not inquire about allen?
Added:
I wonder if James has completely made up his mind yet. Doesn't this make Chicago MORE attractive to Lebron now? Only way to get another stud to Cleveland is through sign and trade, and Bosh is off the market. His best chance to win now has to be with Chicago. Or I suppose NYK now that they have signed Stoudemire.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 07, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
I believe that LeBron will also be going to Wade's house in Miami.
Riley will still be able to get some role players to come in: Haslem; possibly Ray Allen or even Iverson, etc. They could also go after Raymon Felton. Likely Beasley will be off-loaded.
Miami also drafted three solid rookies in 2nd round.
Do not underestimate Pat Riley!!!
It is possible, but unlikely. The Heat 48 hours ago were going to get shut out and now they are getting all 3? Raptors have not agreed to sign and trade Bosh and there is no way that Cleveland sign and trades James. There are not three max deals out there in Miami as of now.
ESPN is going to draw national interest in on the Lebron selection show. I would not be surprised if the Clippers get a little press to rope in some west coast interest for ESPN. They will link along Chi, NJ, and NY too. Cleveland most likely choice. I would not put Bulls completely out though. Remember in mid-June, it was Wade and Bosh to Miami and James to Chicago. Maybe it is all coming back to that.
But, I would not trust anything that ESPN is saying anymore. They are trying to deliver ratings for Thursday now.
Quote from: dwaderoy2004 on July 07, 2010, 09:50:05 AM
because he played in a d'antoni offense that pushed his stats up about 25-30% across the board. PLus david lee is probably the worst defensive post player in the league. He's not worth max money, but that's pretty much what he's gonna get now that he has all the leverage in the world over chicago, NJ, LAC, etc. Go get Boozer and a shooter, preferably redick. And why not inquire about allen?
Added:
I wonder if James has completely made up his mind yet. Doesn't this make Chicago MORE attractive to Lebron now? Only way to get another stud to Cleveland is through sign and trade, and Bosh is off the market. His best chance to win now has to be with Chicago. Or I suppose NYK now that they have signed Stoudemire.
The Bulls should do all they can to sign Boozer and their top choice at SG (be it Redick, Allen, Korver, etc) today. Add those two players to Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson and Johnson in order to show LeBron the contender that he could be playing for next season. Worst-case scenario, LBJ stays in Cleveland and the Bulls get the other players they wanted and still have cap space to sign a couple mid-level guys.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 07, 2010, 10:20:54 AM
The Bulls should do all they can to sign Boozer and their top choice at SG (be it Redick, Allen, Korver, etc) today. Add those two players to Rose, Noah, Deng, Gibson and Johnson in order to show LeBron the contender that he could be playing for next season. Worst-case scenario, LBJ stays in Cleveland and the Bulls get the other players they wanted and still have cap space to sign a couple mid-level guys.
Agreed. Bulls had the least to lose here. They gutted their roster and still made playoffs. They are going to build team around Rose and make this a longer term building plan.
The hard part is, they could have Hinrich, have drafted a SG, and now signed Boozer and another player with the $20 million they already had before the Hinrich trade. No risk, no return though. Those players are replaceable.
I would put a call in to Denver if I was the Bulls., however unlikely that is. Bulls have so much room to make trades too. Who knows. Let's sign Boozer and Korver in Chi so that the Jazz can pay Wes big.
Haha can't say I'm surprised that none of these 3 are going to be in Chicago. I've seen this over and over and over again. The Bulls will get James and Bosh and possibly Wade. The Bulls will get Wade and Bosh. The Bulls will get all 3. Sounds like their coaching situation a couple years. I heard Izzo, K, D'Antoni, etc. Nope, it was Vinny Del Negro.
Delusional Chicago fans who think they're the center of the world. Rose is very attractive because he is a stud and is young (although I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top 10 players in the NBA right now). But Noah, really, isn't good enough to draw top free agents in. He works really hard and he'll get you double doubles night in and night out, but it's not like a younger Shaq. He'll get you 11 and 11. What top free agent is going to be salivating over that?
Not surprised. My guess is Lebron stays in Cleveland. My hope is he goes to the Heat.
If the big 3 do all land in Miami, wouldn't the rest of the roster have to be league minimum players to stay under the cap?
3 All-Stars with the rest of the roster filled out with crap doesn't seem like a good idea.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 07, 2010, 10:32:47 AM
But Noah, really, isn't good enough to draw top free agents in. He works really hard and he'll get you double doubles night in and night out, but it's not like a younger Shaq. He'll get you 11 and 11. What top free agent is going to be salivating over that?
He also doesn't need the ball keeping the all of the attention on the star of the team whoever it may be.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 10:34:11 AM
If the big 3 do all land in Miami, wouldn't the rest of the roster have to be league minimum players to stay under the cap?
3 All-Stars with the rest of the roster filled out with crap doesn't seem like a good idea.
I believe you are correct
Quote from: wadesworld on July 07, 2010, 10:32:47 AM
\Delusional Chicago fans who think they're the center of the world. Rose is very attractive because he is a stud and is young (although I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top 10 players in the NBA right now). But Noah, really, isn't good enough to draw top free agents in. He works really hard and he'll get you double doubles night in and night out, but it's not like a younger Shaq. He'll get you 11 and 11. What top free agent is going to be salivating over that?
Bulls gutted their team and still made the playoffs. 11 and 11 at a young age with good productivity twice in the playoffs. Noah is a nice piece to have. No one goes just because of Noah, but I am glad the Bulls did not trade Noah for Bosh. Boozer and Noah is a better frontline than Bosh and minimum level player. Bulls are not delusional, they showed how good their team is on the floor. Bulls got to second place with 2 MVP candidates. Things are looking good.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 07, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
Riley will still be able to get some role players to come in: Haslem; possibly Ray Allen or even Iverson, etc. They could also go after Raymon Felton. Likely Beasley will be off-loaded.
Miami also drafted three solid rookies in 2nd round.
No one wants Beasley, If they could have traded him they would have done it by now.
When you are counting on 2nd round picks to contribute you probably won't be competing for a title this year.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 10:34:11 AM
If the big 3 do all land in Miami, wouldn't the rest of the roster have to be league minimum players to stay under the cap?
3 All-Stars with the rest of the roster filled out with crap doesn't seem like a good idea.
Agreed. I don't think they beat the Lakers with that team, mostly because Bosh is not that good. With Darko getting $20 million, good players are not going to take no money to go there. People always think it is going to happen, but why don't minimum players just sign with the Lakers every year?
You can't have three guys play 40+ minutes/game and expect multiple titles. Every team will also do everything in their power to foul Bosh out of every game.
The Big Three in Miami win 1 title tops in Miami. They may not even be able to beat Orlando though, let alone the Lakers.
Luckily for Heat, LBJ is probably staying in Cleveland so that the Heat actually sign a team.
If all three get to Miami I can guarantee you people will be taking pay cuts and minimum deals to play alongside them.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 10:50:16 AM
Bulls got to second place with 2 MVP candidates.
MVP candidates of what? Neither Rose nor Noah were MVP candidates this past season.
On another note: I think this just goes along with what people were saying all along, basically CHI was the one team that could afford to "strike out" on the big name FA's because they have taken time and built a strong team "organically" (through the draft, not tons of FA signings and trades). In reality though, it does suck for CHI to have missed out because they would've been better than anything they are going to get now, but it doesn't mean they are in a bad spot.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 11:13:41 AM
MVP candidates of what? Neither Rose nor Noah were MVP candidates this past season.
I meant Chi appears it was second place for James and Wade in free agent sweepstakes.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 11:13:41 AM
MVP candidates of what? Neither Rose nor Noah were MVP candidates this past season.
On another note: I think this just goes along with what people were saying all along, basically CHI was the one team that could afford to "strike out" on the big name FA's because they have taken time and built a strong team "organically" (through the draft, not tons of FA signings and trades). In reality though, it does suck for CHI to have missed out because they would've been better than anything they are going to get now, but it doesn't mean they are in a bad spot.
And if by organically, you mean the blind stupid luck and 1.7% chance they had at getting the #1 pick in 2008.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 11:13:41 AM
On another note: I think this just goes along with what people were saying all along, basically CHI was the one team that could afford to "strike out" on the big name FA's because they have taken time and built a strong team "organically" (through the draft, not tons of FA signings and trades). In reality though, it does suck for CHI to have missed out because they would've been better than anything they are going to get now, but it doesn't mean they are in a bad spot.
As Bulls fan, I agree with you. Does it suck to miss out on Wade, LBJ and Bosh, yes, but its not a death blow (see the Knicks). The team's biggest need is still PF, which they can still make a significant improvement at with either Boozer or David Lee.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 11:16:43 AM
I meant Chi appears it was second place for James and Wade in free agent sweepstakes.
Oh, ok I totally didn't follow that one obviously.
Does anyone else think that Cleveland is out of the running kind of? I mean I've just been thinking about it and really would there be this much hype and this hour long build up event to him revealing where he's playing for it to just be "I'm staying in Cleveland," I mean I'm hoping that's what he says, but let's be honest that's a bit anti-climatic and just doesn't seem likely that they would go through this much hassle if that's the case... just my opinion
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on July 07, 2010, 11:10:27 AM
If all three get to Miami I can guarantee you people will be taking pay cuts and minimum deals to play alongside them.
Why doesn't that ever happen? People who have already had big contracts and are now worth $8-$10 million might take the mid-level at $5ish million, but players are not going to take $1 million. Otherwise, people would do it every year, but it does not happen.
The Bulls did not win championships playing John Salley, Robert Parrish, and James the Buddah Edwards. Those are the types of players the Heat might get if they sign all three, but that is not the path to a title.
Heat would be better developing Beasley, signing Felton at PG and signing Brendan Haywood at C. Then they would at least have 6 true NBA players with Felton, Wade, Beasley, Bosh, and Haywood starting and Chalmers off the bench. Use the midlevel on Mike Miller or someone like that and you have a team. That is a smarter move than trading Beasley and Chalmers, signing James and finding guys way over the hill to play with them.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 10:34:11 AM
If the big 3 do all land in Miami, wouldn't the rest of the roster have to be league minimum players to stay under the cap?
3 All-Stars with the rest of the roster filled out with crap doesn't seem like a good idea.
Each team is allowed to sign one mid-level exemption at the average NBA salary. Whether they're over the cap or not. That's the contract the Bucks gave Gooden. With the first season just under $6 million.
There also is a lower exemption under $2 million which is allowed once every two years.
The $54-58 million is the NBA "soft" cap. Miami is still allowed to resign any of their free agents that played with them last season. Udonis Haslem comes to mind. Just like the Bucks, if willing, could sign Ridnour and go higher over the soft cap.
If desperate to move Beasley's $5 million contract (if he isn't traded for Bosh) I'm guessing some team would take him for a draft pick. Why wouldn't a Minnesota/New Jersey offer a second rounder for the overall #2 from two years ago? That frees up a bit more to sign another veteran.
Plus I think they would be able to add a couple big body old vets (like a Juwan Howard, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith, Theo Ratliff) that would be willing to play for the veteran minimum for a chance to play on this team. They all played for the minimum last season.
Quote from: reinko on July 07, 2010, 11:17:47 AM
And if by organically, you mean the blind stupid luck and 1.7% chance they had at getting the #1 pick in 2008.
Ridiculous luck with Rose... of course, that was insane and it still kinda makes me wonder about the legitimacy of some of these types of things (even LBJ to CLE... a feel good story of hometown kid, granted we were tied with DEN for highest % to get him, but still)
But they still have done a really nice job in the draft... Rose, Noah, Deng, Gordon (though not there any more), etc.
Better than anything my Cavs have to show for themselves through these past few drafts that's for sure!
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 11:20:57 AM
Oh, ok I totally didn't follow that one obviously.
Does anyone else think that Cleveland is out of the running kind of? I mean I've just been thinking about it and really would there be this much hype and this hour long build up event to him revealing where he's playing for it to just be "I'm staying in Cleveland,"
No, I see it as the opposite. I doubt that he goes on ESPN to announce he's abandoning Cleveland. It could make him look really bad. He is resigning with the Cavs.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on July 07, 2010, 11:10:27 AM
If all three get to Miami I can guarantee you people will be taking pay cuts and minimum deals to play alongside them.
Even if guys were to take pay cuts, no way do they take the league minimum.
The best thing for the Heat is LBJ to stay away so they can fill the rest of their roster.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 11:21:57 AM
Why doesn't that ever happen? People who have already had big contracts and are now worth $8-$10 million might take the mid-level at $5ish million, but players are not going to take $1 million. Otherwise, people would do it every year, but it does not happen.
Only thing I can think of (and I don't remember the exact specifics and numbers of it - so maybe someone else can help out here??), but didn't Karl Malone, Gary Payton and I wanna say maybe one or two other long term vets sign on with the Lakers for one year simply for a Championship with Kobe and Shaq still?? Anyone know specifics? Other than though (if that is even an example) I can't think of another circumstance where that's happened.
http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/07/07/espns-own-are-trying-too-hard-to-overhype-lebron-announcement/#comments
As if you needed more reasons to hate ESPN. This one just about takes the cake...
I guess since Lebron never got to do a press conference to announce his college choice he'll just do it for the aptly named (from theBigLead) Lebronageddon sweepstakes.
Quote from: LancesOtherNut on July 07, 2010, 11:35:41 AM
http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/07/07/espns-own-are-trying-too-hard-to-overhype-lebron-announcement/#comments
As if you needed more reasons to hate ESPN. This one just about takes the cake...
I guess since Lebron never got to do a press conference to announce his college choice he'll just do it for the aptly named (from theBigLead) Lebronageddon sweepstakes.
I appreciated this sentence from Deadspin:
An ESPN reporter has been unable to confirm with ESPN that James will announce his decision on ESPN, but sources within ESPN have told the ESPN reporter that ESPN is in discussions with James.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 11:33:52 AM
Only thing I can think of (and I don't remember the exact specifics and numbers of it - so maybe someone else can help out here??), but didn't Karl Malone, Gary Payton and I wanna say maybe one or two other long term vets sign on with the Lakers for one year simply for a Championship with Kobe and Shaq still?? Anyone know specifics? Other than though (if that is even an example) I can't think of another circumstance where that's happened.
Payton got the mid-level at around $5 million and Malone took the veteran exception for $1.8 million. Neither took the veteran minimum of about $1 million.
But both were overpaid and Malone could not hold up. The Lakers had a lot of other other players too, and Kobe and Shaq back then are better than Wade and Bosh now, especially because Shaq in the day was sooo much better than Bosh is.
Maybe it's just me, but I think the Bulls are best off holding back in regards to free agents if they can't get LeBron. David Lee? I don't trust a guy who's a product of the D'Antoni system. I mean come on, is Steve Nash really a 2-time MVP? Everyone blows up in that system. Hell, Noah would probably put up 20 and 15 in New York. I love his effort, but he's not that good.
I guess I could see Boozer, but when they already have Taj Gibson, who will likely improve as the years go by, I don't see why they should go out of their way. Maybe it's homerish of me, but I really think the two best moves they could make right now are to pursue Wesley Matthews and try to trade for Carmelo. With Durant signing an extension, the only superstar coming up soon will be 'Melo. The Bulls clearly need a 3, and could probably fit a trade together that included Deng, Johnson, and some exceptions. Then throw what money you have at Matthews. You need two stars and reliable role-players. I think that a starting five of Rose, Matthews, 'Melo, Gibson, and Noah would have plenty of upside, and it would leave them with a bit of freedom to actually build a bit of a bench.
Sorry... I am kinda Anti-Wade. Sure, its great what he did for MU but he has been a huge jerk (keeping it clean) in this FA season. He totally did not want to go to any team. He just used this FA to make a documentary and to spy on other team's pitches. From the interview, talking about "it's not about the money." and "Chicago is my home" is a load of crap. Chicago was ready to work any deal out that Miami could have done.
I hope Wade and those other players lose and implode on each other. Wade is attracted to sleezeballs. First Crean and now Riley. He sucks.
Quote from: reinko on July 07, 2010, 11:37:58 AM
I appreciated this sentence from Deadspin:
An ESPN reporter has been unable to confirm with ESPN that James will announce his decision on ESPN, but sources within ESPN have told the ESPN reporter that ESPN is in discussions with James.
Ha! That's just great.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 11:49:32 AM
Sorry... I am kinda Anti-Wade. Sure, its great what he did for MU but he has been a huge jerk (keeping it clean) in this FA season. He totally did not want to go to any team. He just used this FA to make a documentary and to spy on other team's pitches. From the interview, talking about "it's not about the money." and "Chicago is my home" is a load of crap. Chicago was ready to work any deal out that Miami could have done.
I hope Wade and those other players lose and implode on each other. Wade is attracted to sleezeballs. First Crean and now Riley. He sucks.
Wow, overreact much? Im sorry you are so hurt by Wade's decision to not go play for YOUR favorite team. In Chicago he will always be second to Jordan, in Miami he is the King and forever will be. When he retires, every future Miami star will be "the next DWade?" He will mean as much to that city and team as he does to Marquette. That impact cannot be understated both economically and personally.
Wade sucks? No, you dont get away with that...we owe everything that the Marquette basketball program is right now to Dwyane Wade. Next time you have a thought...let it go.
QuoteWow, overreact much? Im sorry you are so hurt by Wade's decision to not go play for YOUR favorite team. In Chicago he will always be second to Jordan, in Miami he is the King and forever will be. When he retires, every future Miami star will be "the next DWade?" He will mean as much to that city and team as he does to Marquette. That impact cannot be understated both economically and personally.
Wade sucks? No, you dont get away with that...we owe everything that the Marquette basketball program is right now to Dwyane Wade. Next time you have a thought...let it go.
+1000000
You sound like a cry baby Ericka
My favorite line of the day by a writer on CBS Sports.com. "LeFavre James" That sums it up, with a side of humor. I was on the fence whether I liked Lebron or not. Based on this one hour, primetime one man lovefest, he pushed me off the fence. Way off the fence. I think this firmly positions him in my mind, in second place behind Kobe as far as who I don't want to win anything. (Of course, you saw how much good that does this year!). LeBron will have to break the law in some way to overtake Kobe.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 11:49:32 AM
Sorry... I am kinda Anti-Wade. Sure, its great what he did for MU but he has been a huge jerk (keeping it clean) in this FA season. He totally did not want to go to any team. He just used this FA to make a documentary and to spy on other team's pitches. From the interview, talking about "it's not about the money." and "Chicago is my home" is a load of crap. Chicago was ready to work any deal out that Miami could have done.
I hope Wade and those other players lose and implode on each other. Wade is attracted to sleezeballs. First Crean and now Riley. He sucks.
Yeah what a jerk with absolutely no loyalty for deciding to stay with the team he has only ever played for, and won a championship with.
How could he ever turn down [insert my favorite team here] for those idiots? I put a curse on his family and children.
Quote from: KCMarq09 on July 07, 2010, 12:15:06 PMWade sucks? No, you dont get away with that...we owe everything that the Marquette basketball program is right now to Dwyane Wade. Next time you have a thought...let it go.
I don't know...didn't Wade already show some rather distasteful tendencies when he dressed up in IU gear? I appreciate what Wade did to help put Marquette back on the map, but he doesn't seem to be doing much to promote us now that he's gone. Guys like Wes, Jerel, Robert Jackson, and Merritt are back in town for IWB's Pro-Am. Doc Rivers is throwing us shout-outs on national television. Where's Wade? I don't expect him to come back for every Pro-Am or event we have, but I also certainly don't expect him to dress up in Crimson and Cream for Tommy Tanning Bed.
Did he screw over the Bulls? Yes, no, maybe, who knows? Maybe he had serious thoughts about going there, maybe he was a red herring to distract their attention from gettable free agents. At the end of the day, I won't lose much sleep over that. But I'm not going to kiss Dwyane Wade's ass for what he did years ago at Marquette when he's now wearing another school's colors that he has no affiliation with.
Like Crean, he did good for us while he was here. Like Crean, he's doing little to help us now. Thanks for the memories, but I'm a lot more appreciative of those who continue to promote Marquette
after they leave.
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 07, 2010, 12:23:02 PM
Yeah what a jerk with absolutely no loyalty for deciding to stay with the team he has only ever played for, and won a championship with.
How could he ever turn down [insert my favorite team here] for those idiots? I put a curse on his family and children.
He's a fake. If it was about winning, he would be with the best surrounding cast like a Chicago or Cleveland. Same with Bosh. Bosh refused to go to Cleveland... why? If it were about being a good father, he would be in Chicago, ya know, where his kids are. Just man up and say, I like partying in Miami.
And I second Brew City. The guy is not about Marquette any more. Nor is Crean. So we can stop kissing his arse.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 07, 2010, 12:24:47 PM
I don't know...didn't Wade already show some rather distasteful tendencies when he dressed up in IU gear? I appreciate what Wade did to help put Marquette back on the map, but he doesn't seem to be doing much to promote us now that he's gone. Guys like Wes, Jerel, Robert Jackson, and Merritt are back in town for IWB's Pro-Am. Doc Rivers is throwing us shout-outs on national television. Where's Wade? I don't expect him to come back for every Pro-Am or event we have, but I also certainly don't expect him to dress up in Crimson and Cream for Tommy Tanning Bed.
Did he screw over the Bulls? Yes, no, maybe, who knows? Maybe he had serious thoughts about going there, maybe he was a red herring to distract their attention from gettable free agents. At the end of the day, I won't lose much sleep over that. But I'm not going to kiss Dwyane Wade's ass for what he did years ago at Marquette when he's now wearing another school's colors that he has no affiliation with.
Like Crean, he did good for us while he was here. Like Crean, he's doing little to help us now. Thanks for the memories, but I'm a lot more appreciative of those who continue to promote Marquette after they leave.
Nevermind that he had an ad campaign that featured MU prominently or often speaks highly of the University in interviews.
He wore some shorts representing the University that employs his old coach. So what. Is it wrong to feel loyalty to basically the one D1 coach that took a chance on him when he was an under the radar partial qualifier? How about loyalty to the coach/GM that drafted him and basically gave him the helm of their franchise very early in his career?
I think it is time for some of you to scale back your expectations a little bit. The bottom line is that DWade remains a positive asset/representative of our University and its bball program.
For most of the free agent sweepstakes Wade was definitely staying in Miami. He was only coming to Chicago on a surprise visit last weekend.
James has been on Chicago's radar for a while. Chi is still not out with him.
Two months ago, Bulls would have taken Boozer only and been happy. Getting the 'Big Three' is only a recent thing. It is no fun because we all go so excited. However, Chicago is still in a good spot. Adding Boozer would be huge. The Bulls would have an inside threat and a pick and roll option.
Bulls' big pick up was DRose. They don't need to strike lightning twice. Missing out on Wade and probably James keeps the Bulls from winning in the next few years. Adding Boozer and a shooter while keeping some cap space available allows them room to make trades and build for the future. Taj, Noah, Deng, Johnson, and Rose are still a nice young core. Boozer would make a difference. Thibs will make a difference too. Missed a home run, but let's just get better.
Odds of people taking pay cuts to go play with the Heat are slim/none, it just DOES NOT happen.
Realistically, if Wade/LBJ/Bosh wanted to all play for a title together, they would have gone to Chicago. No roster of teams with cap room was better than the Bulls.
Why would someone take a pay cut to go there? These guys want to get paid and put up stats. Unless I'm mistaken, there's only one basketball on the court at a time. Only if someone was beyond desperate to win a title, would a star player go there. A Tier 2/Tier 3 free agent would want to go there, but not another star type player.
People I talk to officially have no clue what LeBron is going to do. His inner circle is no more, Wes is out, Marverick Carter is involved, but has no clue (legit). Theories around LBJ are this:
1) Wes wanted him to come to Chicago (this is 100% fact from everyone I talk to). Carter and the rest of LBJ's inner circle viewed Wes as a power threat, and slowly moved him aside.
2) It's in Maverick's, Randy Mim's, and Rich Paul's best interest for LBJ to stay in Cleveland. Those three would basically have full control over decisions in the Cavs organization, and be on team charters, be in the locker room. Those guys are the power brokers behind LBJ.
3) As of now, unless they're all lying, none of those 3 guys know what LBJ is doing (and this is much different from what they were saying over the weekend). His inner circle did not want the ESPN show (pure LBJ move), they told him to stay off Twitter (they wanted to control LBJ info via his new website). Everything LBJ has done in the last 48 hours goes against the "brand" of LeBron. This could mean he is now seriously considering going to Chicago/Miami/New York, and going on his own. Or this is all just a lot of useless drama, and he's going to Cleveland.
Wow, jilted Bulls fans aplenty. It's not about winning anymore? Hasn't Miami just moved up to probably the 2nd best team in the East after today's announcement?
Maybe we should let the season unfold along with the rest of the free agency signings to see if this is about winning or not.
J
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 07, 2010, 12:24:47 PM
I don't know...didn't Wade already show some rather distasteful tendencies when he dressed up in IU gear? I appreciate what Wade did to help put Marquette back on the map, but he doesn't seem to be doing much to promote us now that he's gone. Guys like Wes, Jerel, Robert Jackson, and Merritt are back in town for IWB's Pro-Am. Doc Rivers is throwing us shout-outs on national television. Where's Wade? I don't expect him to come back for every Pro-Am or event we have, but I also certainly don't expect him to dress up in Crimson and Cream for Tommy Tanning Bed.
Did he screw over the Bulls? Yes, no, maybe, who knows? Maybe he had serious thoughts about going there, maybe he was a red herring to distract their attention from gettable free agents. At the end of the day, I won't lose much sleep over that. But I'm not going to kiss Dwyane Wade's ass for what he did years ago at Marquette when he's now wearing another school's colors that he has no affiliation with.
Like Crean, he did good for us while he was here. Like Crean, he's doing little to help us now. Thanks for the memories, but I'm a lot more appreciative of those who continue to promote Marquette after they leave.
I believe he was in one of those Doc Rivers Marquette commercials, he came to Midnight Madness not too long ago, his shoe commercials have featured Marquette in them several times. Look, I dont know about wearing IU shorts or whatever, but come on...freaking shorts! Big deal. I have no idea why you think Wade is ostracizing himself from the Marquette community. Simply put, he is literally one of the top three major stars in the NBA.
Sure Robert Jackson can come back to the ProAm because he plays in Europe or Russia or whatever. Do you see Dominic James on the roster? Jerel McNeal can't even be there for all the games, I dont see Lazar Hayward there either...jesus! Should we think they are distancing themselves from MU? Stop making such quick absolute judgments on people and decisions. DWade isnt buddy buddy with Buzz, he's still a very new coach, just relax. Do you ever EVER hear Georgia Tech being mentioned with Bosh? No, but you will often hear references to Marquette with DWade, whether it be commercials, announcers or so on.
Without Wade, where are we? Conference USA still? With the coming realignment, we need to be in the best position possible and the opportunity to to align ourselves with the best and most lucrative basketball only schools was essential and no one more influenced our path there than DWade.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 11:49:32 AM
Sorry... I am kinda Anti-Wade. Sure, its great what he did for MU but he has been a huge jerk (keeping it clean) in this FA season. He totally did not want to go to any team. He just used this FA to make a documentary and to spy on other team's pitches. From the interview, talking about "it's not about the money." and "Chicago is my home" is a load of crap. Chicago was ready to work any deal out that Miami could have done.
I hope Wade and those other players lose and implode on each other. Wade is attracted to sleezeballs. First Crean and now Riley. He sucks.
Yeah this is a bit much. I'm disappointed that he didn't come to the Bulls but I will still cheer for him and the Heat.
QuoteWithout Wade, where are we?
Exactly what I was going to write.
Just think about, however scary it is, if Wade never came here.
Let me know if you make it out of that dark hole alive.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 07, 2010, 12:40:11 PM
Wow, jilted Bulls fans aplenty. It's not about winning anymore? Hasn't Miami just moved up to probably the 2nd best team in the East after today's announcement?
Maybe we should let the season unfold along with the rest of the free agency signings to see if this is about winning or not.
J
+1
...and what about loyalty? How is it not selfish to go to any team that has the best chance of winning? What about wanting to win with the guys and the organization you have spent the better part of a decade with?
I have never understood this. The guys that bounce around to contenders at the end of their career to get a ring are just as selfish as the guys that go to the highest bidder, IMO. It's the same motivation. I want to get paid or I want a ring and I don't care where it comes from. It's just one more personal accolade that they want to cross off the list.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 07, 2010, 12:40:11 PM
Wow, jilted Bulls fans aplenty. It's not about winning anymore? Hasn't Miami just moved up to probably the 2nd best team in the East after today's announcement?
Why I agree the Wade hate is a bit much, the Bulls with Wade and Bosh would be a better team than the Heat with Wade and Bosh as it stands.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 07, 2010, 12:40:11 PM
Hasn't Miami just moved up to probably the 2nd best team in the East after today's announcement?
To put them at second in the East, you really need to be high on Bosh. Bosh has never won. He is a big SF who put up numbers in games that do not matter. His highlights are all finger rolls and blocked shots on point guards. I don't think much of him personally. I think Wade made a mistake from a purely basketball POV. If neither Wade nor James would come to Chicago, I would rather have Boozer personally at PF since he won't be a max guy. If James or Wade wanted Bosh, though, I'd give Bosh a max in a heartbeat. And I DEFINATELY would not trade Noah for Bosh if Wade was not coming for sure.
The Heat have a nice core. As do the Bulls actually. Add Boozer and Bulls might be better than the Heat depending on how much improvement the players on the team will get. It is not crazy to think Rose, Noah, and Gibson will all improve still.
The East is going to be pretty competitive. Boston has one more run. Orlando is the favorite. Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta are in the middle. Charlotte and Milwaukee are getting better. I am still not high on the Knicks right now.
Wade is still my favorite player in the league. Everyone knew he was going to Miami the whole time. He flirted with Chicago for a few days. We will get over it.
Quote from: MUSF on July 07, 2010, 12:55:14 PM
+1
...and what about loyalty? How is it not selfish to go to any team that has the best chance of winning? What about wanting to win with the guys and the organization you have spent the better part of a decade with?
I have never understood this. The guys that bounce around to contenders at the end of their career to get a ring are just as selfish as the guys that go to the highest bidder, IMO. It's the same motivation. I want to get paid or I want a ring and I don't care where it comes from. It's just one more personal accolade that they want to cross off the list.
If it was about winning, they'd be going to Chicago. The Heat have literally 3 players under contract, and those three aren't getting you a title.
If it was truly about winning, and not cash, these guys would be going to Chicago.
100% agree Dish.
I'll still cheer for Wade and the Heat but I think he made a poor decesion if he wanted his best shot to win a title.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 07, 2010, 12:40:11 PM
Wow, jilted Bulls fans aplenty. It's not about winning anymore? Hasn't Miami just moved up to probably the 2nd best team in the East after today's announcement?
Quote
That's very debatable and the Heat still have a lot of work to do. Personally I think Bosh has been overrated throughout this whole free agency. I know i'm in the minority in this one, but there wasn't much winning on the Raptors while he was there.
The Bulls plus Boozer/Lee and Korver/Reddick will be a better team than the Heat with Bosh and Wade.
Also it's being reported LBJ is flying down to Miami to meet with Wade and Bosh.
If he goes to Miami the Heat will have 3 great players and 9 players that completely suck.
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 01:02:07 PM
If it was about winning, they'd be going to Chicago. The Heat have literally 3 players under contract, and those three aren't getting you a title.
If it was truly about winning, and not cash, these guys would be going to Chicago.
I don't like to look at it in absolutes where there is one choice if you want to win and everything else is against winning, but the Bulls could have easily given Deng away for a second round pick if their backs were to the wall. The Bulls could have given Wade and Bosh both max deals whereas Bosh is now not getting a 6 year max. The best chance to win was definitely in Chicago. No ifs and or buts about it.
Wade wanted the 6th year. Who can really blame him. They will be competitive down there.
Every day Lebron has had a new team as the favorite it seems. It maximizes people watching his show, but who really knows what is up.
Sign Boozer. Chicago is literally the best team for James then. Give Deng away for a second round pick. Sign Korver and Reddick with Deng $. Mid-level to Brad Miller. James comes and wins it two out of three years with that.
I believe Wade just wanted to be loyal and win with the team that made him who he is today.
For lessons on loyalty, Mr. Wade asks you not to look at the Chicago Bulls Organization
In fairness to Wade and Bosh, it doesn't look like there will be a S&T so both guys could be taking a pay cut. Especially if LeBron is comming.
Quote from: DJO's Pump Fake on July 07, 2010, 01:10:38 PM
I believe Wade just wanted to be loyal and win with the team that made him who he is today.
For lessons on loyalty, Mr. Wade asks you not to look at the Chicago Bulls Organization
If it's loyalty, I'm guessing Wade has 30 million reasons to be loyal to the Heat, just a guess though. I'm sure loyalty trumps getting paid.
Also, as mentioned before, there are few organizations in sports more loyal than the Bulls (and White Sox). Wade apologized multiple times in person to Reinsdorf about that quote.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 01:01:00 PM
To put them at second in the East, you really need to be high on Bosh. Bosh has never won. He is a big SF who put up numbers in games that do not matter. His highlights are all finger rolls and blocked shots on point guards. I don't think much of him personally. I think Wade made a mistake from a purely basketball POV. If neither Wade nor James would come to Chicago, I would rather have Boozer personally at PF since he won't be a max guy. If James or Wade wanted Bosh, though, I'd give Bosh a max in a heartbeat. And I DEFINATELY would not trade Noah for Bosh if Wade was not coming for sure.
The Heat have a nice core. As do the Bulls actually. Add Boozer and Bulls might be better than the Heat depending on how much improvement the players on the team will get. It is not crazy to think Rose, Noah, and Gibson will all improve still.
The East is going to be pretty competitive. Boston has one more run. Orlando is the favorite. Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta are in the middle. Charlotte and Milwaukee are getting better. I am still not high on the Knicks right now.
Wade is still my favorite player in the league. Everyone knew he was going to Miami the whole time. He flirted with Chicago for a few days. We will get over it.
LOL... they don't even have a starting 5. All they have is Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, and Beasley. I don't see them winning. They need a center. And a point. I'll wait and see what happens but lets call it what it is at the moment. Wade just wants to party it up in Miami.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 01:09:21 PM
Also it's being reported LBJ is flying down to Miami to meet with Wade and Bosh.
If he goes to Miami the Heat will have 3 great players and 9 players that completely suck.
Let's see. They can resign Udonis Haslem. Doesn't suck, nice power forward. They could resign Joel Anthony at Center, nice 2nd year player. They have Beasley to score and rebound. They have the PG under contract
They have the mid level and veteran exceptions. Sign a PG and a lock down defender.
QuoteLet's see. They can resign Udonis Haslem. Doesn't suck, nice power forward. They could resign Joel Anthony at Center, nice 2nd year player. They have Beasley to score and rebound. They have the PG under contract
They have the mid level and veteran exceptions. Sign a PG and a lock down defender.
Thank you, I thought I was the only one who was thinking clearly
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 01:18:35 PM
Also, as mentioned before, there are few organizations in sports more loyal than the Bulls (and White Sox). Wade apologized multiple times in person to Reinsdorf about that quote.
Off the top of my head:
Helped Post Career: Bill Cartwright, Scottie Pippen, Jay Williams, Bob Love
Post Career Jobs To: John Paxon, Bill Wennington, Stacy King, Bill Cartwright, Pete Meyers, BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown
Quote from: pbiflyer on July 07, 2010, 01:22:56 PM
Let's see. They can resign Udonis Haslem. Doesn't suck, nice power forward. They could resign Joel Anthony at Center, nice 2nd year player. They have Beasley to score and rebound. They have the PG under contract
They have the mid level and veteran exceptions. Sign a PG and a lock down defender.
With Bosh, Wade, and Lebron there's no way they can sign everyone you name.
EDIT: And if Lebron doesn't go to Miami and they do sign those guys, all you have is last year's bad Miami team and added Bosh. While Bosh obviously improves them does he make them a contender?
I still want Wade to win as many titles as possible wherever he is. I just don't think Miami is the best place where he can do that
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 01:27:05 PM
With Bosh, Wade, and Lebron there's no way they can sign everyone you name.
Actually, they can. You can go over the cap to resign your own free agents. Granted, they won't sign all of them. I suspect that Haslem will be back, Anthony will be back and they use the two exceptions.
And since the owner, Mickey Arinson is a billionaire, I think he could afford it.
If they don't sign Lebron, they have a ton of room to sign better players. Let' see, a player can choose Wade and Bosh in South Florida (no taxes), or a bad Nicks team, a barren Nets team, the Clippers???. Cleveland is out of cap room if Lebron signs there.
The Heat will be just fine next year.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 01:27:05 PM
With Bosh, Wade, and Lebron there's no way they can sign everyone you name.
Exactly. People who are good are not going to flock there. Washed up players will maybe go there. These kind of players are not going to take major pay cuts. Otherwise they would do it every single season. Does not happen.
Heat would be better adding more players. Not Lebron. They will be fine if they don't add Lebron. Heat's biggest need is interior defense. Not another scoring wing player. People will go to Miami if Miami pays them their worth. No one worth it will take the vet minimum.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 07, 2010, 01:25:36 PM
Off the top of my head:
Helped Post Career: Bill Cartwright, Scottie Pippen, Jay Williams, Bob Love
Post Career Jobs To: John Paxon, Bill Wennington, Stacy King, Bill Cartwright, Pete Meyers, BJ Armstrong, Randy Brown
They also paid Jason Williams after his accident.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 01:43:23 PM
They also paid Jason Williams after his accident.
Weren't they going to pay Eddie Curry for the rest of his life a six figure amount every year too?
I don't feel jilted Chicos.
I've pegged bulls + boozer + ray Allen as a contender. And more cash to resign our young studs. Bring on plan E!
As for 2nd best. I know the nba is all about who has the best two players but it might be too early to say.
They have 2 studs, 1 young but below avg player, 1 who should be a 7th man on a championship team and 3 probable busts. They better make some good signings or that is too much weight i'd want to see two guys carry.
We'll see if vets will play there for the minimum like people on espn seem to think.
They pretty much have to sign brad miller right?
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 01:02:07 PM
If it was about winning, they'd be going to Chicago. The Heat have literally 3 players under contract, and those three aren't getting you a title.
If it was truly about winning, and not cash, these guys would be going to Chicago.
You are probably right but that doesn't adress my point that always going to the best team is, in fact, selfish.
Would a world series title mean as much to Cal Ripken if he won it on the Yankees?
How about one more Stanley Cup for Yzerman on the Penguins?
If Malone would have won an NBA championship with the Lakers would it be a testament to how unselfish he was for leaving the Jazz to win a title?
I don't pretend to know what Wade's true motivations are but I'm sure he wants to get paid like one of the 5 best players in the league, wants to be the go to guy on his team, and wants to win championships. He also may want to build something special in Miami because he loves the city and they love him.
So I've also been thinking about how excited I am for just basketball in general and especially for the Eastern Conference!! It seemed like for forever the Western Conference was always this dominant force that without question was better than the East and blah blah blah, but with all of these moves it sure looks like a lot of Eastern teams are getting better at the bottom, moving up in the middle and reach a top tier echelon few typically can! It just gets me excited for the season to play out!
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 02:03:33 PM
So I've also been thinking about how excited I am for just basketball in general and especially for the Eastern Conference!! It seemed like for forever the Western Conference was always this dominant force that without question was better than the East and blah blah blah, but with all of these moves it sure looks like a lot of Eastern teams are getting better at the bottom, moving up in the middle and reach a top tier echelon few typically can! It just gets me excited for the season to play out!
Agreed. Phoenix looking down. I don't see Dallas ever doing anything. San Antonio is done.
Portland and OKC are going to be the class of the West. Denver too if they make the right moves. Lakers are obviously the team to beat.
East is drawing even here.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 02:03:33 PM
So I've also been thinking about how excited I am for just basketball in general and especially for the Eastern Conference!! It seemed like for forever the Western Conference was always this dominant force that without question was better than the East and blah blah blah, but with all of these moves it sure looks like a lot of Eastern teams are getting better at the bottom, moving up in the middle and reach a top tier echelon few typically can! It just gets me excited for the season to play out!
West is still dominant, pound for pound. Sub .500 teams are still going to strap for the 8th playoff spot in the East.
Boozer commits to the Bulls 5 years 80mil reported
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 02:44:00 PM
Sub .500 teams are still going to strap for the 8th playoff spot in the East.
Probably true, but I also think we won't see what we did this year with all 8 teams from the west being 50+ win teams either...
Quote from: LAZER on July 07, 2010, 03:57:34 PM
Boozer commits to the Bulls 5 years 80mil reported
Not far off of a max contract for him if I'm not mistaken... Solid player that will help CHI though certainly
Boozer indeed signs with the Bulls. As I mentioned previously, Boozer has always wanted to play for the Bulls, and contract is not a max deal. It is 5 yrs, $80 mil. He could have gotten 5 yrs, $95 mil as a max.
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 04:15:25 PM
Boozer indeed signs with the Bulls. As I mentioned previously, Boozer has always wanted to play for the Bulls, and contract is not a max deal. It is 5 yrs, $80 mil. He could have gotten 5 yrs, $95 mil as a max.
When did he say previously he wanted to play for the Bulls? jw? I know u used to work in front office (if I'm remembering correctly from other posts here)
Yes, not a max, pretty darn close though. I think a little above what he truly deserves, but in this market I think it's about right. Like it in general, but leaves you undersized on the front line with Noah and Boozer.
should officially signal the end of the Bulls in the LBJ running, barring a last second Deng move
I worked for the Bulls during 2000 and 2001 seasons.
Boozer (not publicly) has always had an interest in the Bulls. If you follow certain NBA insiders like Bucher/Broussard/Sam Smith, they'll tell you about Boozer always wanting to play in Chicago as well.
Confirmed with people at the Bulls that the Boozer deal still leaves enough cap space to sign LeBron (or trade for another max player). This is why it's a great contract for them, they didn't have to trade Deng (although they really, really would like to) to fit 2 max guys in.
Quote from: MUBurrow on July 07, 2010, 04:18:33 PM
should officially signal the end of the Bulls in the LBJ running, barring a last second Deng move
It's a longshot for LBJ, but the first year of Boozer's 5/80 starts at $13.7M. The Bulls current cap situation is $30M so that gives them $16.3M for LBJ. $16.6M is the max I believe.
Quote from: MUBurrow on July 07, 2010, 04:18:33 PM
should officially signal the end of the Bulls in the LBJ running, barring a last second Deng move
It's a backloaded contract, they still have room for one more max contract
my mistake. i blame Bucher.
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 04:22:03 PM
This is why it's a great contract for them, they didn't have to trade Deng (although they really, really would like to) to fit 2 max guys in.
Who's the other max guy? (assuming LBJ signs as one of them)
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 04:26:17 PM
Who's the other max guy? (assuming LBJ signs as one of them)
Only other max guy would be LBJ. Unless Denver would consider a Carmelo trade, Bulls most likely would use their remaining space on a Korver/Reddick type guy. Or Ray Allen on a 1/2 yr deal.
Nice! I love this move by the Bulls.
Now its clear... LBJ to Bulls and they are the favorites from the East. If LBJ wants a championship, Chicago is the destination.
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 04:30:46 PM
Only other max guy would be LBJ. Unless Denver would consider a Carmelo trade, Bulls most likely would use their remaining space on a Korver/Reddick type guy. Or Ray Allen on a 1/2 yr deal.
So they aren't fitting in 2 max guys then...
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 04:47:24 PM
Now its clear... LBJ to Bulls and they are the favorites from the East. If LBJ wants a championship, Chicago is the destination.
I don't think CHI is in the running any more for LeBron to be honest. As soon as Bosh went to Miami Chicago's chances were shot. Bosh said he'd go and play with LeBron at any of the destinations available except for the sign and trade to Cleveland... Bosh wouldn't have signed with Miami if LeBron was going to Chicago, no way in my mind.
I think the fact that Wade and Bosh announced BEFORE Lebron means that he is coming to Miami. All indications before were that everyone was going to wait and see what Lebron does. How dramatic is it if Lebron is the first to announce and he says he is going to Miami??? Obviously Wade and Bosh would be joining him there! By announcing before Lebron, he can still have his self-absorbed spectacle!
For those who don't think those 3 will win titles.....GET REAL. Those 3 guys are going to be unstoppable. They will be better than ever because defenses can't focus on them as much and the Wade/James chemistry is going to be the BEST the game will ever see! All the Heat need are defensive players to fill out the team. That is easy. Also, they will have more flexibility in the coming years to add players with exceptions, vet minimum contracts, and draft picks of their own, as well as draft picks they can buy!
Boozer could change things. As good as Miami would be, someone would have to take a pay cut (not likely) and with no space, Miami would be crap outside of those three. And no, Bosh, DW3, and LBJ is not an automatic title. The Lakers would still be the favorites with Kobe, Gasol, Bynum, and Artest/Odom.
Right now the Bulls team with Rose, Deng, Noah, Boozer, is better than the Heat team with Wade, Bosh, Beasley, Chalmers and Haslem. The bulls were already the best rebounding team in the NBA last year, and they added a guy who averaged 11 boards a game, Joakim Noah will flourish playing along side Boozer, and the pick and roll between Boozer and Rose would be lethal. Get the bulls a shooter to add to the mix and they are a legit Eastern Conference contender. ( add lebron to the bulls too and they would win the next 5 titles.)
Even if LBJ joins the Bulls, I still think the Lakers are the favorite. They have that immense frontcourt that is so intimidating defensively, and Kobe's still the best in the business come May and June. That would be a great series, though.
Quote from: flash on July 07, 2010, 06:05:25 PM
Right now the Bulls team with Rose, Deng, Noah, Boozer, is better than the Heat team with Wade, Bosh, Beasley, Chalmers and Haslem. The bulls were already the best rebounding team in the NBA last year, and they added a guy who averaged 11 boards a game, Joakim Noah will flourish playing along side Boozer, and the pick and roll between Boozer and Rose would be lethal. Get the bulls a shooter to add to the mix and they are a legit Eastern Conference contender. ( add lebron to the bulls too and they would win the next 5 titles.)
Nice argument, but you forget to mention all the cap space Miami still has. Right now, I'll take Miami and the cap space over the Bulls.
Anyone questioning how good Miami would be with Wade, Bosh, and LBJ, should probably take a look at Cleveland's roster last season. Some decent players, but not at all impressive. To suggest that the Heat wouldn't be able to find enough guys to put around those 3 is, I suspect a bit of wishful thinking.
That said, I will be very surprised if LBJ announces anything but Cleveland or New York. My gut has been saying New York all along, even though Cleveland is the logical choice.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 07, 2010, 06:29:42 PM
Anyone questioning how good Miami would be with Wade, Bosh, and LBJ, should probably take a look at Cleveland's roster last season. Some decent players, but not at all impressive. To suggest that the Heat wouldn't be able to find enough guys to put around those 3 is, I suspect a bit of wishful thinking.
That Heat team would not find anyone as good as Jamison, Verajao, Hickson, Moon, Mo Williams, Delante West, etc. There is just no way. Cavs are a decent team. Not a title team bc Jamison is not all-star caliber anymore. They hypotheical Heat all-star team would not be hard to beat in a 7 game series. Bosh would foul out in some of them, and he does not play defense anyway.
Role players do not grow on trees. Washed up players and undrafted rookies are not going to make it happen.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 06:46:47 PM
That Heat team would not find anyone as good as Jamison, Verajao, Hickson, Moon, Mo Williams, Delante West, etc. There is just no way.
Ummm...Wade and Bosh would certainly be a start. Obviously those two are significantly better than anyone on that list.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 07, 2010, 06:51:16 PM
Ummm...Wade and Bosh would certainly be a start. Obviously those two are significantly better than anyone on that list.
I thought you were saying that the Heat were going to add James along with Bosh and Wade and be good. You can't just have those three guys and washed up players and undrafted rookies.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 04:55:52 PM
I don't think CHI is in the running any more for LeBron to be honest. As soon as Bosh went to Miami Chicago's chances were shot. Bosh said he'd go and play with LeBron at any of the destinations available except for the sign and trade to Cleveland... Bosh wouldn't have signed with Miami if LeBron was going to Chicago, no way in my mind.
Agreed completely. However, do any of you guys think LeBron wants to feel in control here. If he departs to Miami its going to still be Wades team. Which brings up the '03 draft. LBJ doesnt want to go to a team where the guy picked four spots behind him is leading his team. To him it may be considered failure (this is why watching Wade win over LBJ 'and Melo' is great). I feel this may push him back to Cleveland, but again make him realize what he's going to feel if he never can find a way get a ring in Ohio. I still can't see him leaving Cleveland.
Quote from: jwalsh on July 07, 2010, 07:18:39 PM
Agreed completely. However, do any of you guys think LeBron wants to feel in control here. If he departs to Miami its going to still be Wades team. Which brings up the '03 draft. LBJ doesnt want to go to a team where the guy picked four spots behind him is leading his team. To him it may be considered failure (this is why watching Wade win over LBJ 'and Melo' is great). I feel this may push him back to Cleveland, but again make him realize what he's going to feel if he never can find a way get a ring in Ohio. I still can't see him leaving Cleveland.
The only thing, though, is that the Bulls now have the clearly better team. Forget the Big 3 in Miami. Can't win without a nice rotation. The Knicks could not win and now have swapped out David Lee for Amare and are talking about getting Tony Parker. Pass. The Nets don't have a good team. Cleveland is better than all of those teams if he wants to win one next year.
Who knows if he ever wanted to play with Bosh or not. After the Bulls series he complimented the Bulls team in place. Getting Bosh probably meant losing Gibson and Noah. The Bulls would not be the same then. They would basically be Miami with Rose and Bosh only there. Not a good situation and I am so happy the Bulls did not trade for Bosh. The Bulls are now for sure better than the Cavs are with James on their team. There is no question. He does have that to consider now, where he did not have it before.
I agree with the three year opt out with the Cavs and then James and Paul go to the Nets. I think MUDish predicted that in an earlier thread.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 07, 2010, 04:55:52 PM
I don't think CHI is in the running any more for LeBron to be honest. As soon as Bosh went to Miami Chicago's chances were shot. Bosh said he'd go and play with LeBron at any of the destinations available except for the sign and trade to Cleveland... Bosh wouldn't have signed with Miami if LeBron was going to Chicago, no way in my mind.
If Bosh cared about playing with LBJ, why didn't he do the sign and trade again?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 07:25:15 PM
The only thing, though, is that the Bulls now have the clearly better team. Forget the Big 3 in Miami. Can't win without a nice rotation. The Knicks could not win and now have swapped out David Lee for Amare and are talking about getting Tony Parker. Pass. The Nets don't have a good team. Cleveland is better than all of those teams if he wants to win one next year.
Who knows if he ever wanted to play with Bosh or not. After the Bulls series he complimented the Bulls team in place. Getting Bosh probably meant losing Gibson and Noah. The Bulls would not be the same then. They would basically be Miami with Rose and Bosh only there. Not a good situation and I am so happy the Bulls did not trade for Bosh. The Bulls are now for sure better than the Cavs are with James on their team. There is no question. He does have that to consider now, where he did not have it before.
I agree with the three year opt out with the Cavs and then James and Paul go to the Nets. I think MUDish predicted that in an earlier thread.
So are you saying the Bulls are still in the running to get LeBron? Today the ESPN reporters are saying its down to Cleveland, Miami, and NY. Unlike many, many scoopers I would be trilled to have him come to Chicago (starting 5 of- James - Rose - Noah - Boozer - Deng... yikes) I cant really see it with what is transpirering here in the media. Also, does it matter that the Bulls have only 16.3 million left to spend? Is it important to show LBJ you want to give him the max?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 07, 2010, 06:58:05 PM
I thought you were saying that the Heat were going to add James along with Bosh and Wade and be good. You can't just have those three guys and washed up players and undrafted rookies.
That's what people fail to see. All this talk reminds me of a loser fantasy player who screams "CHAMPIONSHIP" after drafting three studs. When people talk about "Jordan and Pippen" and "Kobe and Shaq" people forget that Jordan and Pippen had Pax, Kerr, Grant, Toni, Ron Harper, Rodman. These guys weren't undrafted rookies or guys willing to take the minimum to contribute. They were solid players.
The Big 3 would be the best trio in the game. And people compare them to the Boston trio. The only difference if that Rondo is dropping triple doubles almost every night. That is why Chicago is the best fit for LBJ for championships. You have three studs, LBJ, Boozer, and Rose, and a bunch of role players like Deng, Noah, and Taj. Its simple. If LBJ's decision is about basketball, he is coming to the Bulls. If its about image, he stays with Cleveland. If he wants the Mega Spotlight and the chance to be the most wealth basketball player ever, he goes to the Knicks. (I say "chance" because he needs to win a championship to do that.)
Quote from: jwalsh on July 07, 2010, 07:40:49 PM
So are you saying the Bulls are still in the running to get LeBron? Today the ESPN reporters are saying its down to Cleveland, Miami, and NY. Unlike many, many scoopers I would be trilled to have him come to Chicago (starting 5 of- James - Rose - Noah - Boozer - Deng... yikes) I cant really see it with what is transpirering here in the media. Also, does it matter that the Bulls have only 16.3 million left to spend? Is it important to show LBJ you want to give him the max?
Two things, Bulls can offer max. Also, if you haven't noticed, the media doesn't know squat about what is going to happen. The reports change every 15 minutes.
Bulls team right now with Boozer, Noah, Rose (etc) is currently better than the Heat team with Wade/Bosh. Right now it's essentially the same crummy Heat team from last season, with Chris Bosh added. Obviously this will change for both teams over the next month as they add pieces.
Bosh is a very good player, but he's not a superstar, he just isn't. Simmons tweeted it today as well, if he was a "superstar", how come the Raptors weren't better? Not saying Boozer is a superstar either, but I think the hype of Bosh is greater than it should be.
Boozer is a solid addition. Slightly smaller than Bosh, not as athletic, better defender/rebounder than Bosh, and is an ideal pick and roll 4 for Rose to play alongside.
Obviously if LBJ signs with the Heat (still don't think he will, as his "people" said all along he's not going to Miami), everything changes in the East. But right now as current rosters are, it's wide open. Heat right now are probably max out as a 50 win team.
Jason Goff of the score tweeted it best:
Cleveland = Loyality
Chicago = Winning
New York = Fame
Which does LBJ want the most?
Quote from: MUDish on July 07, 2010, 07:49:57 PM
Bulls team right now with Boozer, Noah, Rose (etc) is currently better than the Heat team with Wade/Bosh. Right now it's essentially the same crummy Heat team from last season, with Chris Bosh added. Obviously this will change for both teams over the next month as they add pieces.
Aren't the Bulls the same crummy team with Boozer added and Hinrich lost?
And I think a Bosh/Beasley/Chalmers/Bosh team is a better start for building onto than the current Bulls. I honestly don't see any reason why LBJ would choose Chicago. I don't think he'll end up in Miami because I just don't see him and Wade playing together, but there's even less of a chance he'll go to Chicago, which essentially can do nothing more with free agency than what they have now if they get James. Right now it's a three-team race between Cleveland, New York and New Jersey, and I just don't see LeBron leaving Cleveland for either of those places.
Odds are tomorrow night, for 59 minutes a bunch of talking heads will speculate based on garbage, then Lebron will put on a Cavs cap and start crying.
All this talk about the Bulls being a better team now than Miami--not getting it.
Didn't the Bulls finish at .500 and the Heat were about 8 games over .500? So who was crummier?
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 07, 2010, 07:57:34 PM
Aren't the Bulls the same crummy team with Boozer added and Hinrich lost?
And I think a Bosh/Beasley/Chalmers/Bosh team is a better start for building onto than the current Bulls. I honestly don't see any reason why LBJ would choose Chicago. I don't think he'll end up in Miami because I just don't see him and Wade playing together, but there's even less of a chance he'll go to Chicago, which essentially can do nothing more with free agency than what they have now if they get James. Right now it's a three-team race between Cleveland, New York and New Jersey, and I just don't see LeBron leaving Cleveland for either of those places.
Odds are tomorrow night, for 59 minutes a bunch of talking heads will speculate based on garbage, then Lebron will put on a Cavs cap and start crying.
Boozer/Noah/Rose core right now is better than a Wade/Bosh core. Would you rather have a 21 year old on the brink of superstardom point guard, a solid 2 time all star at the 4 spot, and a 25 year old very quality center or a 28 year old superstar at the 2 spot with a ton of mileage, and a 5 time all star very solid 4 spot?
Bosh/Boozer in essence cancel one another out, Wade still has plenty in the tank, but would you rather have Rose or him going forward? Heat has no one like Noah on their roster. Hollinger pointed this out today as well, they have to get someone to compliment Bosh and a point guard asap.
Tougher to find a stud point guard and solid center than it is a shooter. Agreed Hinrich is a loss, but easier to replace him than a Rose/Noah.
Bulls dumped half of their team and still made the playoffs this year.
Bulls have better coach and a scoring PF. They lost Hinrich but will replace him.
Plus, Rose is only 21 and it is very reasonable that we have not seen his ceiling yet. He has played big in the playoffs the last few seasons.
Bulls are looking really strong right now with lots of flexibility left to keep improving.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 07, 2010, 07:59:41 PM
All this talk about the Bulls being a better team now than Miami--not getting it.
Didn't the Bulls finish at .500 and the Heat were about 8 games over .500? So who was crummier?
Bulls were crummy last year too, don't get me wrong, but they were crummy and young. Heat have nothing outside of Wade/Bosh (almost literally nothing, they have 3 players on their roster currently). They can't get rid of Beasley quickly enough. Doesn't say much for a recent #2 overall pick.
Quote from: willie warrior on July 07, 2010, 07:59:41 PM
All this talk about the Bulls being a better team now than Miami--not getting it.
Didn't the Bulls finish at .500 and the Heat were about 8 games over .500? So who was crummier?
You missing the point. Right now, the Heat have Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, and Beasley.... AND NO ONE ELSE. If Lebron goes to the Heat, Lebron has to cross his fingers and hope they sign some quality players. Odds are is that they will not.
All the players are in Chicago. All the pieces are there.
So don't compare Rose and Chalmers and so one. Look at Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, and Beasley. Is that better than Rose, Boozer, Noah, Taj, and Deng? That's the no brainer. Could the Heat sign some min. salary players? Maybe. If he is playing the maybe card, he should go to the Knicks. If there is any team to take a risk on, its the Knicks.
Truth is, as it stands right this second, LBJ makes the Bulls the best team in the east. He might do that with other teams, but they need to sign other players. Why take that risk? Take the money and guarantee roster.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 07:42:58 PM
The Big 3 would be the best trio in the game. And people compare them to the Boston trio. The only difference if that Rondo is dropping triple doubles almost every night.
You do realize Rondo didn't record his first triple double until the Fall of 2008, the season after the Big 3 won their championship in 2008. And during their championship campaign, Mr. Rondo averaged 10, 4, and 5.
But keep reaching chief.
Quote from: reinko on July 07, 2010, 09:04:19 PM
You do realize Rondo didn't record his first triple double until the Fall of 2008, the season after the Big 3 won their championship in 2008. And during their championship campaign, Mr. Rondo averaged 10, 4, and 5.
But keep reaching chief.
Swing and a miss... the whole point is that they had more than just the three of them. Rondo, Perkins... ya know, a center.
Your in the mindset of ... the Big 3 can win it all with anyone out there. Its just not true. Especially when you have complete teams running out there like the Lakers and others.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 07, 2010, 08:19:00 PM
You missing the point. Right now, the Heat have Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, and Beasley.... AND NO ONE ELSE. If Lebron goes to the Heat, Lebron has to cross his fingers and hope they sign some quality players. Odds are is that they will not.
All the players are in Chicago. All the pieces are there.
So don't compare Rose and Chalmers and so one. Look at Bosh, Wade, Chalmers, and Beasley. Is that better than Rose, Boozer, Noah, Taj, and Deng? That's the no brainer. Could the Heat sign some min. salary players? Maybe. If he is playing the maybe card, he should go to the Knicks. If there is any team to take a risk on, its the Knicks.
Agreed. If his primary goal is to get a championship, the Bulls provide the best opportunity. I see that Ray Allen just re-upped with the Celtics. I thought he would have been a perfect addition to Lebron and the Bulls.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 07, 2010, 09:47:31 PM
Agreed. If his primary goal is to get a championship, the Bulls provide the best opportunity. I see that Ray Allen just re-upped with the Celtics. I thought he would have been a perfect addition to Lebron and the Bulls.
I think Allen would have been perfect for Chicago since he knows the coach.
There are some really great shooters available. Regardless of what happens with Lebron, the Heat and Bulls are going to be in an arms race for Kyle Korver, JJ Reddick, Anthony Morrow, and Mike Miller.
The Heat also have to worry about who is going to play C and PG, but Bulls only need a shooter so can go over the Heat's head for the 2 shooters they want.
With the Boozer signing, Carmelo may be realistic for Chicago. Deng, James Johnson, and Taj Gibson match up close enough salary-wise. Bulls would still have about $16 mil to spend on their bench. It might need some picks added in, but for 'Melo it's surely worth it.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 07, 2010, 10:42:12 PM
With the Boozer signing, Carmelo may be realistic for Chicago. Deng, James Johnson, and Taj Gibson match up close enough salary-wise. Bulls would still have about $16 mil to spend on their bench. It might need some picks added in, but for 'Melo it's surely worth it.
That would be incredible. But, I don't think that Chicago gets Melo without losing Noah or Rose, and maybe both. Denver is not going to take a bad contract off of our hands and our two worst players for an All-Star and face of their franchise. I'd give them Deng and just about as many first round picks as they want though. They would just have to like Deng's 17 points and 7 boards enough to say we are cutting our losses with Melo for a guy who makes less and gives us 60% of the production, plus we get picks.
I don't see it, but that would be perfect for the Bulls to come away with Melo somehow. I would hate to see Melo on the Knicks. I would hate to see anyone on the Knicks. Hopefully all they do is switch Amare and David Lee and that is that for them.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 07, 2010, 10:42:12 PM
With the Boozer signing, Carmelo may be realistic for Chicago. Deng, James Johnson, and Taj Gibson match up close enough salary-wise. Bulls would still have about $16 mil to spend on their bench. It might need some picks added in, but for 'Melo it's surely worth it.
The only issue is that every single reporter (and I know almost every report is bogus) says New York. He is an east coast kid and people say he wants to be a Knick
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on July 07, 2010, 09:47:31 PM
Agreed. If his primary goal is to get a championship, the Bulls provide the best opportunity. I see that Ray Allen just re-upped with the Celtics. I thought he would have been a perfect addition to Lebron and the Bulls.
I agree this year the Bulls had the best opportunity. However, going forward its definitely the Heat. Each year they would be able to sign a MLE guy and BAE guy adding 2 solid players each year. They will also be able to sign vets at the min. The roster starts to shape up very quickly.
Next year-
Wade
Lebron
Beasley
Bosh
Vet Min
Next year-
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Beasley
MLE
BAE
Vet min
Draft Pick
3rd year-
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Beasley
MLE
MLE
BAE
BAE
Vet
2 Draft picks
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 08, 2010, 12:08:58 AM
I agree this year the Bulls had the best opportunity. However, going forward its definitely the Heat. Each year they would be able to sign a MLE guy and BAE guy adding 2 solid players each year. They will also be able to sign vets at the min. The roster starts to shape up very quickly.
Next year-
Wade
Lebron
Beasley
Bosh
Vet Min
Next year-
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Beasley
MLE
BAE
Vet min
Draft Pick
3rd year-
Wade
Lebron
Bosh
Beasley
MLE
MLE
BAE
BAE
Vet
2 Draft picks
The Bulls can sign the same amount of players though, and they have a head start with what they have now. Boozer, Gibson, and Noah are greater than Bosh. You are looking at 2 years until you beat that up front, and that assumes Chicago adds nothing.
By that time, Rose is probably pretty close to Wade.
It all depends, I guess, on how good you think Bosh really is. If you think he was a hidden KG up in Toronto, then you maybe have something. But, if James wants to wait until he is 30 to win a title he should go to Brooklyn with the Russian and J-Z, not Miami.
If LBJ is thinking a three year plan, good luck to him. Lots can happen in three years. Wade can break down (he will be 30). Bosh could break down because he has had injuries. And by the way, I don't see that trio being happy going into year three without a ring. They would implode.
And I just watched a thing about the cap room. I think Miami would have to unload Beasley to sign LBJ. Then they are stuck with really no one. Again, if LBJ really wants to win NOW, Chicago and Cleveland make the most sense.
Honestly, I don't care about LBJ any more. Give me a Korver and Miller and we are ready to rock. No championship team has had LBJ up to this point. You don't need him to win.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 12:19:35 AM
The Bulls can sign the same amount of players though, and they have a head start with what they have now. Boozer, Gibson, and Noah are greater than Bosh. You are looking at 2 years until you beat that up front, and that assumes Chicago adds nothing.
By that time, Rose is probably pretty close to Wade.
It all depends, I guess, on how good you think Bosh really is. If you think he was a hidden KG up in Toronto, then you maybe have something. But, if James wants to wait until he is 30 to win a title he should go to Brooklyn with the Russian and J-Z, not Miami.
It's not about quantity but quality. James/Bosh/Wade trumps Rose/James/Boozer. The other guys just round it out.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on July 08, 2010, 12:56:54 AM
It's not about quantity but quality. James/Bosh/Wade trumps Rose/James/Boozer. The other guys just round it out.
While I agree that the Miami big three would be better than the Chicago big three (although not by much...I think Bosh is incredibly overrated), the supporting cast means something. Where would the Celtics have been without Perkins and Rondo? Where would the Lakers have been without Fisher and Bynum? The supporting casts are very important, and Noah, Deng, Gibson and another FA of some sort are better than what Miami can trot out there.
MUDish, what are you hearing my friend?
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 09:33:39 AM
MUDish, what are you hearing my friend?
I obviously have no sources (especially not compared to Dish) but I doubt we'll gain any real insight until LeBron's presser tonight. My guess is that he's letting the location of Greenwich, the lure of Bosh and Wade in Miami, the potential of teaming up with Rose and Boozer, and the chance to return home all stew in the pot. I think LeBron probably has already made his decision, but wants as much hype as possible, so he will just let the rumor mills churn all day until 8:10 tonight when he lets down most of the NBA world by announcing he won't be playing for their favorite team.
Quote from: brewcity77 on July 08, 2010, 10:19:39 AM
I obviously have no sources (especially not compared to Dish) but I doubt we'll gain any real insight until LeBron's presser tonight. My guess is that he's letting the location of Greenwich, the lure of Bosh and Wade in Miami, the potential of teaming up with Rose and Boozer, and the chance to return home all stew in the pot. I think LeBron probably has already made his decision, but wants as much hype as possible, so he will just let the rumor mills churn all day until 8:10 tonight when he lets down most of the NBA world by announcing he won't be playing for their favorite team.
I agree and disagree. I think LBJ is going to furiously whisk the pot and leak out of this crappy info. I bet there will be multiple conflicting reports about where LBJ is going to hype this stupid thing up. He needs all the major markets to watch. Miami has already been leaked. I think Chicago and New York will get a report in the next 5 hours. So stupid.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 10:27:27 AM
I agree and disagree. I think LBJ is going to furiously whisk the pot and leak out of this crappy info. I bet there will be multiple conflicting reports about where LBJ is going to hype this stupid thing up. He needs all the major markets to watch. Miami has already been leaked. I think Chicago and New York will get a report in the next 5 hours. So stupid.
Stupid and just plane egotistical act. Well he's now going to be remembered as a quitter in Clevelanders' eyes for having quite on us in the Boston series and quitting on his "mission" to win a Championship for Cleveland...
Will be interesting how the Miami situation ends up actually playing out though on the court, oh and get used to seeing them on national TV for every game this year too basically.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 08, 2010, 11:38:15 AM
Stupid and just plane egotistical act. Well he's now going to be remembered as a quitter in Clevelanders' eyes for having quite on us in the Boston series and quitting on his "mission" to win a Championship for Cleveland...
Will be interesting how the Miami situation ends up actually playing out though on the court, oh and get used to seeing them on national TV for every game this year too basically.
He is already becoming a hated man in every city but the one he signs in. not a good path to becoming a billionaire. The ads are not going to be there anymore, and maybe not even the championships.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 11:45:12 AM
He is already becoming a hated man in every city but the one he signs in. not a good path to becoming a billionaire. The ads are not going to be there anymore, and maybe not even the championships.
True, but this is his hometown and trust me Cleveland will never forgive him for this... we are still praying Art Modell suffers the most hideously painful death in the history of man kind for what he did to us... this won't be far off of that, if not worse.
Americans have the shortest term memory. Here is the list off the top of my head of athletes who have done worse or were alleged to do worse than Bron Bron, and have made a successful comeback.
~Kobe
~Barkley
~Tigger
~Ray Lewis
~Iverson
~Tyson
~Michael Irvin
~Rasheed Wallace
And really this list could be 200 deep. LeBron will be hated for awhile, but folks will soon forget, as they always do.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 08, 2010, 11:55:33 AM
True, but this is his hometown and trust me Cleveland will never forgive him for this... we are still praying Art Modell suffers the most hideously painful death in the history of man kind for what he did to us... this won't be far off of that, if not worse.
Cleveland fan, if I were in your shoes, I would be pretty upset with the guy. If its any consolation, he is not winning a championship next. He better understand the Cuban flare because that might be the only people buying his crap. Also, don't be surprised if they don't win in two or three years, Wade runs him out of town. That will be Wade's team no matter what happens.
Quote from: reinko on July 08, 2010, 11:58:17 AM
Americans have the shortest term memory. Here is the list off the top of my head of athletes who have done worse or were alleged to do worse than Bron Bron, and have made a successful comeback.
~Kobe
~Barkley
~Tigger
~Ray Lewis
~Iverson
~Tyson
~Michael Irvin
~Rasheed Wallace
And really this list could be 200 deep. LeBron will be hated for awhile, but folks will soon forget, as they always do.
Agreed on the national level... on the Cleveland fan level and his hometown... he will never be forgiven, even when he's 75...
Quote from: reinko on July 08, 2010, 11:58:17 AM
Americans have the shortest term memory. Here is the list off the top of my head of athletes who have done worse or were alleged to do worse than Bron Bron, and have made a successful comeback.
~Kobe
~Barkley
~Tigger
~Ray Lewis
~Iverson
~Tyson
~Michael Irvin
~Rasheed Wallace
And really this list could be 200 deep. LeBron will be hated for awhile, but folks will soon forget, as they always do.
Definitely not the same. There is the courts and the courts of public opinion. From the courts, he can be acquitted or serve time, or from the court of public opinion, he can say he's sorry. He can't say sorry to Cleveland and every other team will just cheer for their own team. Its definitely different.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 12:01:20 PM
Cleveland fan, if I were in your shoes, I would be pretty upset with the guy. If its any consolation, he is not winning a championship next. He better understand the Cuban flare because that might be the only people buying his crap. Also, don't be surprised if they don't win in two or three years, Wade runs him out of town. That will be Wade's team no matter what happens.
If LeBron really is going to Miami, he's sure doing his best to try and make it his team already. Bosh and Wade signed up together, and here comes LeBron building up the suspense and attention to sign with the same team. If they want to do the whole three amigo's thing, then do it right and sign together. If they all sign in Miami, its because they've certainly discussed and decided give it a go before today, so come in together as three ultra-talented best buds... it would make this all much more palatable
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 11:45:12 AM
He is already becoming a hated man in every city but the one he signs in. not a good path to becoming a billionaire. The ads are not going to be there anymore, and maybe not even the championships.
If you think that the money machine that is LeBron James is going to dry up if he LEAVES CLEVELAND, you are very naive. People (including me) are put off by him right now, but they will forget. Nike is salivating right now about having Wade and James on the same label and the same team.
EDIT: He will always be hated in Cleveland if he does this, I don't mean to imply that he wont. This is the Fumble and the Drive put together and multiplied by 10 considering the way he is doing it.
Quote from: reinko on July 08, 2010, 11:58:17 AM
Americans have the shortest term memory. Here is the list off the top of my head of athletes who have done worse or were alleged to do worse than Bron Bron, and have made a successful comeback.
~Kobe
~Barkley
~Tigger
~Ray Lewis
~Iverson
~Tyson
~Michael Irvin
~Rasheed Wallace
And really this list could be 200 deep. LeBron will be hated for awhile, but folks will soon forget, as they always do.
A successful comeback is one thing ... being a global icon with a "brand?" Well, only two people on that list can say that - Tiger and Kobe. And Tiger's been taking a turn for the worse lately.
Quote from: eaglewarrior08 on July 08, 2010, 12:14:21 PM
A successful comeback is one thing ... being a global icon with a "brand?" Well, only two people on that list can say that - Tiger and Kobe. And Tiger's been taking a turn for the worse lately.
Tiger and Kobe were both engaged in various degrees of sexual misconduct. That is not even kind of the same thing as exercising a right to be a free agent. LeBron is going about this douchily, but he is going to be just fine on the moneymaking front. Not as good as if he went to New York...
Bill Simmons says:
QuoteLet's say LeBron signs with Miami. Can you even make the Finals with LeBron, Bosh, Wade and nine minimum-salary guys? Because that might be next year's team ... and if that's what happens, the answer is "no effing way." You don't win titles just because of your top three. That belittles the meaning of guys like Derek Fisher, Robert Horry, Steve Kerr, John Paxson, Brian Shaw ... you could go on for hours naming role players who swung a title. The 2008 Celts lucked out by getting James Posey, Eddie House and P.J. Brown for practically nothing; Miami wouldn't have that luxury this summer, not with so many role players jockeying for contracts one year before the possible lockout. Nobody is taking less money to showcase themselves for a summer that might not happen. Even if Miami could spin Michael Beasley for a fourth guy (say, Trevor Ariza), that's still not enough. They'd need one more rebounder, point guard, a 3-point shooter and a center. Good luck.
Another problem: You realize how many minutes these guys would log on a three-man team? About 42-44 minutes for 100 games ... and if anyone missed an extended stretch of games, then that would put even more pressure on the other two. Crazy. No way they win more than 50, especially with teams gunning for them every night. We've also never seen two perimeter superstar alpha dogs coexist for an NBA title -- not even when Jerry West and Elgin Baylor teamed up with Wilt Chamberlain against the aging Celtics in 1969. LeBron would have to accept becoming Mega-Pippen to Wade's Jordan. (Yeah, right.) Even during the final quarter of the 2008 gold-medal game, when everyone on the American team was staring at each other wondering who was going to step up against a red-hot Spain team, there were a few minutes of tentative, "I don't want to step on anyone's toes here" basketball before Kobe said, "Screw it, get out of my way" and took over the key portion of the game.
What should LeBron do? Pick Chicago. That's where the rings are. The fact that he didn't say to Bosh, "Come to Chicago with me, we'll play with Rose and Noah and win six titles together" was the single most disappointing outcome of the summer. That team would have been a true juggernaut with pieces that actually complemented each other, unlike this pickup-basketball situation that's brewing in Miami. Even with Boozer there in Bosh's place -- and I think he's a great fit for them, with or without LeBron -- it could still translate to multiple titles, because Rose could have been the best second banana since Kobe in 2001.
Thanks TallTitan, I was going to quote Simmons column as well. Simmons lays it out perfectly.
If LBJ goes to these places, it's because:
Chicago (winning)
Cleveland (loyalty)
New York (immortality)
Miami (????)
I (and people in the know) have no idea how good or bad the Heat would be with those 3. It would be them and 9 minimum salary guys. They would absolutely have to draft well going forward.
I know everyone thinks this will be the greatest team ever, but who shoots in crunch time? Wade is 28 with a TON of miles on him. Bosh is a solid player, but hardly a superstar. When 2 of the 3 are on the bench, and it's LBJ with 4 stiffs out there, opposing teams are going to go on runs. It feels like a fantasy basketball team turning into reality.
Right now, no one knows anything. LBJ and his circle haven't said anything. I know all the talk is Miami right now, but all the talk last week had it down to the Bulls/Cavs.
My prediction, just a hunch, as people I talk to have no clue any more....he stays in Cleveland.
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 12:30:59 PM
Thanks TallTitan, I was going to quote Simmons column as well. Simmons lays it out perfectly.
If LBJ goes to these places, it's because:
Chicago (winning)
Cleveland (loyalty)
New York (immortality)
Miami (????)
I (and people in the know) have no idea how good or bad the Heat would be with those 3. It would be them and 9 minimum salary guys. They would absolutely have to draft well going forward.
I know everyone thinks this will be the greatest team ever, but who shoots in crunch time? Wade is 28 with a TON of miles on him. Bosh is a solid player, but hardly a superstar. When 2 of the 3 are on the bench, and it's LBJ with 4 stiffs out there, opposing teams are going to go on runs. It feels like a fantasy basketball team turning into reality.
Right now, no one knows anything. LBJ and his circle haven't said anything. I know all the talk is Miami right now, but all the talk last week had it down to the Bulls/Cavs.
My prediction, just a hunch, as people I talk to have no clue any more....he stays in Cleveland.
Didn't the Simmons quote go:
Chicago (winning)
Cleveland (loyalty)
New York (immortality)
Miami (
HELP)
In the lull while everyone reads that article...
I agree with Simmons. While I'm very curious to see what the video-game Heat would look like playing together, its ultimately disappointing if LeBron chooses Miami. He would probably win more with the Bulls (though I still contend the Heat-experiment COULD create the best team, we just KNOW that the Bulls would be great with him), he would become a god if he carried NY to a championship, or he would be forever lauded as the hometown hero if he stayed in Cleveland... probably whether he won one or not, just that he stayed. Going with the Heat seems like a cop-out.
Quote from: shiloh26 on July 08, 2010, 12:12:36 PM
EDIT: He will always be hated in Cleveland if he does this, I don't mean to imply that he wont. This is the Fumble and the Drive put together and multiplied by 10 considering the way he is doing it.
Well we now have "The Fumble" "The Drive" "Red right 88" "The Move" and now "The Decision"... it's most depressing to think that if LeBron, the homegrown super star won't even stay in Cleveland when we can offer him the most money and allow him to stay home, then what the hell do we ever have to look forward to? Unfortunately, we are who we are... not an attractive market for free agents, usually can't pay more than anyone else, teams are never that good because of this and it's just a painful cycle of misery...
I'm not sure if people outside of Cleveland really understand what sports mean to us Clevelanders and just how much this hurts, yet how stubborn we are because when LeBron announces "Miami" tonight I will inevitably respond "Go Cavs!" Also, if you think for a second there's another city that has suffered as much as us... you are kidding yourselves!! Buffalo is the ONLY one even close to us if you ask me, but they don't even have as many sports teams as us! Having one team that has a drought is one thing (Cubs, Bo Sox for a while, etc), but ALL teams in one city continually landing on misery or jumping onto a spike to kill their chances... it's just cruel.
Sorry to rant, just in a bad place right now, lol...
Bill Simmons is right on the money. They are two mid-level exception players away from contending in Miami. Lebron would be in year number 10 when that happens. You really cannot just roll the ball out there without other good pieces around you. And they are considering getting rid of the mid-level anyway.
Wade does not need to be logging these heavy minutes, either. Looking out for our fellow MU guy is getting lost in this. We don't want Wade on a team that people root against. I was probably wrong to say that James won't get ad money, but he is definately going to be rooted against hard in any place but Cleveland.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 08, 2010, 12:02:15 PM
Agreed on the national level... on the Cleveland fan level and his hometown... he will never be forgiven, even when he's 75...
I spent about 5 years of my life in Cleveland and both parents are from there. It's a city that surely has fallen on a ton of bad luck for a long time. But I think the question for him is whether or not he thinks he can win a title in Cleveland. The problem is that no one wants to go there to help him out. So if he wants to be one of the greats, he needs to go somewhere where he can win.
Whether Clevelanders forgive him or not, I have a feeling they will. Everyone leaves Cleveland...Bob Hope, George Steinbrenner, Drew Carey, Halle Berry, Arsenio Hall, etc, etc
Hell, even Thomas Edison left.
Personally, I love the city. A ton of character and charm, good people, etc. But it has a tough rep and people, especially athletes, have not wanted to play there. In many ways, it reminds me of Milwaukee to some extent. Nice city, good people, but professional athletes have not wanted to play there and usually try to get out at some point. They are not "destination" cities for high profile athletes and entertainers.
A lot of you are looking at this Miami thing as if there will only be 3 guys and 9 stiffs. Miami can go over the cap, if they wish. They just pay a luxury tax.
Plus, nothing is to say they won't be able to sign some guys that have made $$ and are looking to get a ring, signing for the league minimum.
Pat Riley isn't an idiot.
Personally, I hope he stays in Cleveland, but I don't think he can win a title in Cleveland because not enough players want to live there. He can probably win a title in Chicago and I'd say with the right pieces in Miami, could do so also.
The whole "LeBron can't win in Cleveland because other stars don't want to go there" is true only for free agent moves... in normal trades, it doesn't matter wtf the player wants... that falls on the TEAMS agreeing to terms on moving assets in the end.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on July 08, 2010, 12:19:15 PM
Bill Simmons says:
Some of that isn't exactly true. If he does go to Miami, they won't have 9 minimum salary guys. They will still have the midlevel expection (about 5.5 million) and the bi-annual exception (2.0 million). So that's $7.5 million to sign some guys. Not sure if they would go after Brendan Haywood with that money or not. They could also sign numerous guys to very backloaded deals. In addition, they'll have Chalmers-a guy who is very similar to the guy the Lakers just won the title with starting at point. They could also have Beasely, depending on whether or not he gets sent somewhere in sign and trade. They also drafted some guys in the second round who could be solid role players (Dexter Pitman, Jarvis Varnado, Da'Sean Butler, Latavious Williams). However, as someone incorrectly stated before, they will not be able to just sign all of their free agents from last year to go over the cap. Each of your own team's free agents has a salary cap hold, which is a percentage of their prior-year salary depending on several factors (pay grade, service time). You cannot go over the cap to sign outside free agents, only your own. So, in order to sign Lebron, the Heat would have to renounce all or almost all of their free agents, thus giving up their Larry Bird rights and clearing cap space (ie-Jermaine O'Neal counts a certain amount against the cap unless the Heat renounce his rights in order to clear space to sign Bosh, James..etc)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 12:39:43 PM
A lot of you are looking at this Miami thing as if there will only be 3 guys and 9 stiffs. Miami can go over the cap, if they wish. They just pay a luxury tax.
They can only exceed the cap by signing league minimum contracts though, it's not like they can go and continue to offer MAX contracts to everyone or something...
Quote from: jmayer1 on July 08, 2010, 12:43:42 PM
If he does go to Miami, they won't have 9 minimum salary guys. They will still have the midlevel expection (about 5.5 million) and the bi-annual exception (2.0 million). So that's $7.5 million to sign some guys.
I am pretty unclear on the excpetions. I thought that you had to be over the cap at the START of the free agency period, which means either July 1 or July 8. That means the Bulls, Heat, and every one in these sweepstakes cannot use an excpetion. It is an exception because you are over the cap.
Anyone know?
looks like LeBron will sign with Miami as well
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 08, 2010, 12:43:31 PM
The whole "LeBron can't win in Cleveland because other stars don't want to go there" is true only for free agent moves... in normal trades, it doesn't matter wtf the player wants... that falls on the TEAMS agreeing to terms on moving assets in the end.
Correct, sign and trade type deals. But then you have the players scrambling to get out of there or sulking and not playing, or even refusing to play. Unfortunately we've seen this happen now a few times in the NBA and the clubs actually trade these guys again, which I find incredible.
I want nothing more than for Cleveland to win a title, in anything. They have gone so long. The Browns were on the doorstep but ran into themselves and that the Broncos. You had the Brian Sipe's pass that was picked off by the Raiders. The Cavs had a shot in the 90's but lost to the Bulls despite leading the series going into Cleveland. The Indians were one out away. I watched my dad's frustrations for years with his Cleveland teams....he went to the '48 and '54 World Series and I'm sure he thought at the time (he was a kid) that this was going to be routine...unfortunately for Cleveland, it hasn't been.
GoldenWarrior, I understand where you are coming from. I cannot imagine if the Blackhawks, Bears, and Bulls all had Bartman moments to add to the actual Bartman moment with the Cubs. At the end of the day, very few NBA teams will provide the entertainment I have already seen in my life so I am very thankful for the 1990s Bulls no matter what happens. I'd like another NBA title to clearly put the Bulls into the third greatest NBA franchise spot. And it would be nice to have a legacy that is not just MJ, if that free agents are worried about filling his shoes.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 08, 2010, 12:44:27 PM
They can only exceed the cap by signing league minimum contracts though, it's not like they can go and continue to offer MAX contracts to everyone or something...
Once they reach the cap threshold (which they will if they snag all three), they can sign their own free agents for whatever they want. So I'm guessing Haslem will stay for some nice coin, then they can bring in two veterans with the exceptions. The rest will be league minimum garbage, but you only need one to be decent (like Perkins in Boston) for it to work.
QuoteAnd it would be nice to have a legacy that is not just MJ, if that free agents are worried about filling his shoes.
As a Bulls fan I don't by this BS about free agents such as Wade and Lebron don't want to come to Chicago because their in MJ's shadow. Yes MJ is considered to be the best basketball player in the NBA ever, arguably. But what big market team doesn't have players that cast a shadow. Celtic's (Bird, Russell), Laker's (Magic, Wilt etc.), that whole argument is weak.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 08, 2010, 12:44:27 PM
They can only exceed the cap by signing league minimum contracts though, it's not like they can go and continue to offer MAX contracts to everyone or something...
The Miami Herald has some interesting comments about this, on what could be done, what options they have, etc.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 12:39:43 PM
A lot of you are looking at this Miami thing as if there will only be 3 guys and 9 stiffs. Miami can go over the cap, if they wish. They just pay a luxury tax.
Plus, nothing is to say they won't be able to sign some guys that have made $$ and are looking to get a ring, signing for the league minimum.
Pat Riley isn't an idiot.
Personally, I hope he stays in Cleveland, but I don't think he can win a title in Cleveland because not enough players want to live there. He can probably win a title in Chicago and I'd say with the right pieces in Miami, could do so also.
This rarely ever happens and/or works out. Karl Malone and Gary Payton are two great examples.
What decent young player is going to want to go there for LESS money, have a tough time putting up stats, just to get a ring?
Plus everyone is ignoring the white elephant in the room...the CBA is going to change next year. Things are going to change, probably very drastically from what I'm told. It's going to have to be at least 7 minimum salary players if they sign LBJ as well. The luxury tax threshold is going to change, and make it MUCH better for the smaller market clubs that are on life support right now. It's why I said Miami is going to have to draft well coming up in order to succeed long term.
Edit: My bad, I completely forgot Payton was on that Heat (of all teams) title team. Foot in mouth.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 12:47:00 PM
I am pretty unclear on the excpetions. I thought that you had to be over the cap at the START of the free agency period, which means either July 1 or July 8. That means the Bulls, Heat, and every one in these sweepstakes cannot use an excpetion. It is an exception because you are over the cap.
Anyone know?
I was mistaken. The exceptions are only available if you are already over the cap. However, if you are under the cap, they are added to your existing contracts to determine your cap space. So, for example, if the mid-level exception was $5.5 million, the bi-annual was $2 million, Wade signed for approx $19 million, and Bosh signed for approx $18 million (just ballparking these figures), Chalmers is signed for $847k, and Beasely for $4.962 million, the Heat's total cap amount would be $50.309 million. To sign James, they would have to renounce both the exceptions ($7.5 million), unload Beasely ($4.962 million), and not take back any salary in return. Then their cap number would be around $37.85 million and they woluld have room to sign James under the salary cap of $58.044 million. Unless, these guys each give up some money, which is not likely to happen. As it stands now, they each might have to give up some cash as I'm not exactly sure what the max for each guy is. Then, it would literally be those 3 and 9 minimum guys, as the Heat would have to match salaries in any sign and trade since they would be over the cap.
Here is a great salary cap website:
http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q20
Quote from: damuts222 on July 08, 2010, 12:58:25 PM
As a Bulls fan I don't by this BS about free agents such as Wade and Lebron don't want to come to Chicago because their in MJ's shadow. Yes MJ is considered to be the best basketball player in the NBA ever, arguably. But what big market team doesn't have players that cast a shadow. Celtic's (Bird, Russell), Laker's (Magic, Wilt etc.), that whole argument is weak.
It might not be the only reason, but if I considered myself possibly the best basketball player on the history of the planet, i would want to be recognized as such. Won't happen in Chi. (sure as hell wont happen by joining DWades team either). That's why NY is the perfect choice. Definitely where I would go. You somehow have one of the most historic, passionate basketball fanbases in the country without having to live up to major stars in the upper echelon of NBA lore. Its the perfect storm of everything you want to walk into in an nba franchise (history/fan etc wise anyway) but it somehow has happened in what is essentially a vacuum of stars.
Brendan Haywood to Dallas and Jermaine O'Neal to Boston. Brad Miller and Shaq are the only two centers left. Bulls should sign back Miller (which he has said he wanted to I think).
With just Bosh upfront, the Heat are in trouble inside. I am shocked actually that the heat did not got for Haywood. He would be perfect to mesh with Bosh's game I think.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 12:50:19 PM
Correct, sign and trade type deals. But then you have the players scrambling to get out of there or sulking and not playing, or even refusing to play. Unfortunately we've seen this happen now a few times in the NBA and the clubs actually trade these guys again, which I find incredible.
I want nothing more than for Cleveland to win a title, in anything. They have gone so long. The Browns were on the doorstep but ran into themselves and that the Broncos. You had the Brian Sipe's pass that was picked off by the Raiders. The Cavs had a shot in the 90's but lost to the Bulls despite leading the series going into Cleveland. The Indians were one out away. I watched my dad's frustrations for years with his Cleveland teams....he went to the '48 and '54 World Series and I'm sure he thought at the time (he was a kid) that this was going to be routine...unfortunately for Cleveland, it hasn't been.
Yes, Cleveland has had plenty of great opportunities and have fallen on bad luck, just fell short talent wise, etc etc. It's painful the look back on it all and realize that the last time we had a Champion was in 1964 with Jim Brown leading the Cleveland Browns to the title... but not even a damn Super Bowl title because the first one hadn't even been played yet!!!
i think most of you guys are completely wrong on this ....with the three guys of bosh, wade and LBJ alot of others players will want to play with them and will sign for less money to win a title. see ron artest. Also Boston recent won a title with a big three that pale in comparison to what miami will have a 9 other "stiffs". lastly what makes everyone assume Miami will stand pat if they get Lebron....my guess is they have been reading MuScoop and realize they need other peices
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 01:06:37 PM
Brendan Haywood to Dallas and Jermaine O'Neal to Boston. Brad Miller and Shaq are the only two centers left. Bulls should sign back Miller (which he has said he wanted to I think).
With just Bosh upfront, the Heat are in trouble inside. I am shocked actually that the heat did not got for Haywood. He would be perfect to mesh with Bosh's game I think.
+1 Haywood is a nice piece actually and still has some tred on the tires at least (not like Shaq)
You guys also know, I'm sure, that the cap increased yesterday. That will benefit most teams, including the Heat
Quote from: Ready2Fly on July 08, 2010, 12:54:22 PM
Once they reach the cap threshold (which they will if they snag all three), they can sign their own free agents for whatever they want. So I'm guessing Haslem will stay for some nice coin, then they can bring in two veterans with the exceptions. The rest will be league minimum garbage, but you only need one to be decent (like Perkins in Boston) for it to work.
I don't think this is correct. The Heat would have to renounce the rights to their own free agents and the exceptions in order to clear cap space to sign each guy to a max or near-max deal. They would only be able to sign guys to league minimum contracts. Would/will be interesting to see who they could get for that amount.
Quote from: Canadian Dimes on July 08, 2010, 01:09:54 PM
i think most of you guys are completely wrong on this ....with the three guys of bosh, wade and LBJ alot of others players will want to play with them and will sign for less money to win a title. see ron artest. Also Boston recent won a title with a big three that pale in comparison to what miami will have a 9 other "stiffs". lastly what makes everyone assume Miami will stand pat if they get Lebron....my guess is they have been reading MuScoop and realize they need other peices
People will take the midlevel like Artest. No one good is going to take the minimum.
Boston had a complete team around their 'big three' also. Rondo, PJ Brown, Perkins, Big Baby, James Posey, etc. All are better than the Heat will ever get.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 08, 2010, 01:26:28 PM
People will take the midlevel like Artest. No one good is going to take the minimum.
Boston had a complete team around their 'big three' also. Rondo, PJ Brown, Perkins, Big Baby, James Posey, etc. All are better than the Heat will ever get.
+1
Novak and Diener to sign with the Heat
Quote from: damuts222 on July 08, 2010, 01:41:10 PM
Novak and Diener to sign with the Heat
those would not be far off
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 12:39:43 PM
A lot of you are looking at this Miami thing as if there will only be 3 guys and 9 stiffs. Miami can go over the cap, if they wish. They just pay a luxury tax.
Plus, nothing is to say they won't be able to sign some guys that have made $$ and are looking to get a ring, signing for the league minimum.
Pat Riley isn't an idiot.
Personally, I hope he stays in Cleveland, but I don't think he can win a title in Cleveland because not enough players want to live there. He can probably win a title in Chicago and I'd say with the right pieces in Miami, could do so also.
mmmm... That's the point. The pieces aren't there.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 01:43:54 PM
mmmm... That's the point. The pieces aren't there.
That's what we'll find out.....I hope he stays in Cleveland. Or better yet, pulls a shocker and goes to the Clippers. LOL
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 01:45:47 PM
That's what we'll find out.....I hope he stays in Cleveland. Or better yet, pulls a shocker and goes to the Clippers. LOL
HA... I heard Vinny's pitch was stellar!! I heard it was a diorama with characters of Lebron and friends.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 01:49:47 PM
HA... I heard Vinny's pitch was stellar!! I heard it was a diorama with characters of Lebron and friends.
When Donald Sterling heard that he spent on a diorama, he was fired because a less expensive 2D poster would have been just as effective.
I think I cracked the case. Why would James go to Miami? What does he get there they the three couldn't get at any other franchise? I think its all about control. I think the three will have complete control over the franchise. That's the best I can think of.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 04:26:55 PM
I think I cracked the case. Why would James go to Miami? What does he get there they the three couldn't get at any other franchise? I think its all about control. I think the three will have complete control over the franchise. That's the best I can think of.
No income taxes does make a big contract a lot more valuable than it is in Chicago, or New York.
One thing I just thought of that I had completely forgotten is Izzo. When he turned down the Cavs, there was no doubt in my mind that LeBron was not going back there. My gut continues to scream New York.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 08, 2010, 04:40:18 PM
One thing I just thought of that I had completely forgotten is Izzo. When he turned down the Cavs, there was no doubt in my mind that LeBron was not going back there. My gut continues to scream New York.
Miami or Cleveland
LBJ would actually make more in Miami than Cleveland (despite the Cavs being able to pay him more) due to no FLA state income tax. Cleveland also has a city income tax as well.
I'll say Grizzlies.
Just kidding...I'm sticking with my gut...Cleveland.
Here we go. Word is LBJ called all five teams (Cavs, Bulls, Knicks, Heat, Nets) within last 10 mins. Trying to get word before he announces.
I'm thinking he shocks the world and he retires to play football, like in that commercial. MJ is his idol.
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 08:01:50 PM
Here we go. Word is LBJ called all five teams (Cavs, Bulls, Knicks, Heat, Nets) within last 10 mins. Trying to get word before he announces.
How has that not leaked yet?
Apparently no teams were called from what I just heard. No one has any clue now until he actually announces it.
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 08:11:12 PM
Apparently no teams were called from what I just heard. No one has any clue now until he actually announces it.
You too... I thought it was just media types flip flopping
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 08:11:12 PM
Apparently no teams were called from what I just heard. No one has any clue now until he actually announces it.
He only called the team he was going to... no bull.
He sounds depressed to say he's going to Miami
WTF... If I'm Wade I don't like Lediva taking over the face of the franchise from me.
Sorry Chicago fans. There goes your chance at a deep playoff run.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 08, 2010, 08:30:32 PM
WTF... If I'm Wade I don't like James taking over the face of the franchise from me.
Dwyane did fine sharing the spotlight Shaq and Zo. He'll be fine and hopefully gets another ring out of this.
The best thing about this is Beasley being shown the door.
Cleveland is now the new Nets.
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 08, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Sorry Chicago fans. There goes your chance at a deep playoff run.
not really... if Bulls pick up a jump shooter, Bulls will beat Miami... Book it. Dumbest basketball decision ever.
Quote from: nyg on July 08, 2010, 08:37:31 PM
Cleveland is now the new Nets.
AKA they will be like they were before LeBron James.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 08:40:24 PM
not really... if Bulls pick up a jump shooter, Bulls will beat Miami... Book it. Dumbest basketball decision ever.
Bulls have no shot against a Lediva, Wade, Bosh triumvirate. You could throw Mo and Curly out there with them when the playoffs start and as long as they're playing 40 + minutes it won't be close.
Riley finally takes it to bulls. Although post Jordan.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 08, 2010, 08:42:59 PM
Bulls have no shot against a Lebron, Wade, Bosh triumvirate. You could throw Mo and Curly out there with them when the playoffs start and as long as they're playing 40 + minutes it won't be close.
Ask Kobe, Shaq, Karl Malone, and Payton
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 08:44:24 PM
Ask Kobe, Shaq, Karl Malone, and Payton
ask them what? This is a more powerful "three some" than has been seen in modern history(softball). Better than an aging Garnett, Pierce, and Ray Allen.
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 08, 2010, 08:47:17 PM
ask them what? This is a more powerful "three some" than has been seen in modern history(softball). Better than an aging Garnett, Pierce, and Ray Allen.
Well, Kobe is arguably the best player ever (Yes, better than Wade), and Shaq, at that time, was the most dominant player of our era. And they filled the roster with solid role players. Came up with nothing. Mark my words. They will come up empty for the next two years and that team will implode. All this is talk. You think 3 awesome players equals championship. I think you need stars and great role players. We can just agree to disagree.
Kobe and Shaq came up with nothing JD?
I guess those three rings are just for pretend.
Is there a bigger clown in sports broadcasting than Stuart Scott? How much NBA cock does he suck a night?
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 08:51:59 PM
Well, Kobe is arguably the best player ever (Yes, better than Wade), and Shaq, at that time, was the most dominant player of our era. And they filled the roster with solid role players. Came up with nothing. Mark my words. They will come up empty for the next two years and that team will implode. All this is talk. You think 3 awesome players equals championship. I think you need stars and great role players. We can just agree to disagree.
They won 3 titles
Quote from: groove on July 08, 2010, 09:10:57 PM
Is there a bigger clown in sports broadcasting than Stuart Scott? How much NBA cock does he suck a night?
I agree and can't stand him. He plays the street slang talk and is a joke to ESPN. Why he isn't gone, just like they got rid of Stephen Smith, is unknown to me. I am not alone in this, I really don't know of anyone that enjoys his act.
Quote from: groove on July 08, 2010, 09:14:05 PM
They won 3 titles
You probably can't name three people from that roster... and that is why you don't get it.
I cant recall 3 bigger titans since the Lakers joined West, Baylor, and Wilt Chamberlin-- but, goodrich, hairston, erickson, mel counts ...much depends on the "role" players, here, too, and
today, with the cap the role guys fill in will be harder
Quote from: houwarrior on July 08, 2010, 09:24:03 PM
I cant recall 3 bigger titans since the Lakers joined West, Baylor, and Wilt Chamberlin-- but, goodrich, hairston, erickson, mel counts ...much depends on the "role" players, here, too, and
today, with the cap the role guys fill in will be harder
How many championships did they win??? One. Have fun LBJ.
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 08, 2010, 08:31:22 PM
Sorry Chicago fans. There goes your chance at a deep playoff run.
Huh?
Bulls team is way deeper than the Heat, although that's not hard because the Heat will have only 5 players on their roster as of tomorrow morning. They still have a ton of cap room and flexibility, far from done for the Bulls.
Heat aren't going 82-0, and they're not winning 70 games next season.
They'll be VERY good, but the East is very deep. Who on the Heat is guarding Dwight Howard? Who's guarding Derrick Rose? If Garnett is healthy next season, Boston is built better than the Heat (as currently constructed).
Still a ton left to go. Again, Heat at a minimum are going to have to sign 7 minimum salary players, they have ZERO way around it.
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 09:38:48 PM
Huh?
Bulls team is way deeper than the Heat, although that's not hard because the Heat will have only 5 players on their roster as of tomorrow morning. They still have a ton of cap room and flexibility, far from done for the Bulls.
Heat aren't going 82-0, and they're not winning 70 games next season.
They'll be VERY good, but the East is very deep. Who on the Heat is guarding Dwight Howard? Who's guarding Derrick Rose? If Garnett is healthy next season, Boston is built better than the Heat (as currently constructed).
Still a ton left to go. Again, Heat at a minimum are going to have to sign 7 minimum salary players, they have ZERO way around it.
The East is very deep? No, outside Miami and Orlando they're one of the worst conferences in the history of basketball. The bottom three teams in the West could have made the playoffs last year in the East, and on that same token the 4-8 seeds would have been in the bottom of the West.
And the Heat are going to have Haslem, Beasley, Chalmers, Varnado and Da'Sean as role players. Those aren't bad guys to put around the Three Miamigos. I'd much rather take that than any team in the league. I don't like seeing this Superteam in Miami, but from a neutral (as in, my team had no shot at LeBronze) point of view, the Heat are favorites to win championships for years to come (of course this all hinges on how much the refs decide to favor the Kobe show in a potential finals matchup)
Celtics have one more run in them, you have to include them in the conversation. Bulls have all kinds of flexibility still. I'm not saying Bulls are winning a title next season, but they're going to be a playoff team. If (big IF) they get Gilbert Arenas, that's a very interesting rotation.
Heat will be outstanding, no doubt. But they're work is far from over. Be interesting to see if they get rid of Beasley (they were desperate to do so for weeks now). It'll be fascinating to see how Miami plugs up the rest of that roster, and to see if Wade takes a pounding and gets worn down by the end of the year.
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 08, 2010, 09:55:29 PM
The East is very deep? No, outside Miami and Orlando they're one of the worst conferences in the history of basketball. The bottom three teams in the West could have made the playoffs last year in the East, and on that same token the 4-8 seeds would have been in the bottom of the West.
And the Heat are going to have Haslem, Beasley, Chalmers, Varnado and Da'Sean as role players. Those aren't bad guys to put around the Three Miamigos. I'd much rather take that than any team in the league. I don't like seeing this Superteam in Miami, but from a neutral (as in, my team had no shot at LeBronze) point of view, the Heat are favorites to win championships for years to come (of course this all hinges on how much the refs decide to favor the Kobe show in a potential finals matchup)
Your forgetting about Boston. You know the team that won a championship and took Lakes to game 7. Again, expecting two rookies (one coming off a major injury) to contribute at all is tough. Not saying impossible but look at most players drafted outside the top ten. Most of them don't do anything. That's why Wes was a big surprise, and BTW, he does more for MU at this time than Wade does.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 10:10:00 PM
He does more for MU at this time than Wade does.
Don't get me wrong, I love Wes, and Wes is great because he really reps MU, whereas Wade, being a superstar, reps his team and his brand more, but Wes could never possibly do more for MU than Wade does without even trying.
Also this from (a presumably fake) Kobe Twitter account:
@KingJames: (954) 838-9292 - There's the number for IKEA. I heard you were looking for a bench
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 08, 2010, 09:55:29 PM
The East is very deep? No, outside Miami and Orlando they're one of the worst conferences in the history of basketball. [/qupote]
Ummm ... what?
If not for a poorly timed injury for Kedrick Perkins and an off night for Ray Allen, the Celtics are defending NBA champions with all their key players returning.
Atlanta brings back everyone from a 53-win team with a lot of young talent that still can get better (Horford and Josh Smith, in particular).
Fact is, the West has gotten weaker this offseason while the East has gotten stronger.
QuoteAnd the Heat are going to have Haslem, Beasley, Chalmers, Varnado and Da'Sean as role players. Those aren't bad guys to put around the Three Miamigos. I'd much rather take that than any team in the league. I don't like seeing this Superteam in Miami, but from a neutral (as in, my team had no shot at LeBronze) point of view, the Heat are favorites to win championships for years to come (of course this all hinges on how much the refs decide to favor the Kobe show in a potential finals matchup)
Beasley is going to be moved and Varnado and Butler are borderline NBA talent. On a team with real depth, they'd be the 9th or 10th players. On the heat, they'll be asked to play double-digit minutes. Heat certainly will be a major contender, but anyone thinking they're a lock at this point is out of their gourd.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 08:51:59 PM
Well, Kobe is arguably the best player ever (Yes, better than Wade), and Shaq, at that time, was the most dominant player of our era. And they filled the roster with solid role players. Came up with nothing. Mark my words. They will come up empty for the next two years and that team will implode. All this is talk. You think 3 awesome players equals championship. I think you need stars and great role players. We can just agree to disagree.
Kobe isn't even the greatest Laker ever, let alone best player ever.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5364434&categoryid=2459788
Quote from: Stone Cold on July 08, 2010, 08:47:17 PM
ask them what? This is a more powerful "three some" than has been seen in modern history(softball). Better than an aging Garnett, Pierce, and Ray Allen.
Winning basketball requires more than three players, but that said ...
Jordan+Pippen+Rodman > James+Wade+Bosh (and the Bulls had far superior talent around the big three than Miami will)
The thing people need to remember is that James', Wade's and Bish's offensive numbers are a bit inflated by the fact that they were, by far, their respective team's #1 offensive options. Last year they were 5th, 6th and 13th in field goals attempted last year and 2nd, 4th and 6th in free throws attempted. Which means they all - somehwta by necessity - were ball hogs last year. We're all somewhat judging how food they are by their offensive numbers, but those numbers are a bit skewed by the fact of how much their team's offense, with reason, ran through them.
Quote from: groove on July 08, 2010, 09:10:57 PM
Is there a bigger clown in sports broadcasting than Stuart Scott? How much NBA cock does he suck a night?
Amen. In fact, the whole ESPN crew tonight should be embarrassed of themselves. Not a single non-softball the entire night.
And, nice glasses, granny.
Beasley traded to Minny for 2nd rounder next season.
My guess is Shaq ends up in Miami for the minimum
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 11:00:03 PM
My guess is Shaq ends up in Miami for the minimum
LBJ would veto that move... I would.
Quote from: ErickJD08 on July 08, 2010, 11:01:22 PM
LBJ would veto that move... I would.
He may not have a choice, he needs other players, right? Shaq doesn't need the cash, he's played with both Wade and LeBron....if you get him for the league minimum, my guess is you take him.
Honestly, the NBA means about as much to me as the National Lacrosse League, but this has been interesting to follow. Someone wake me up when the Finals get here.
PS Feel bad for Cleveland.
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 10:57:28 PM
Beasley traded to Minny for 2nd rounder next season.
I saw that.
I guess it's pine time for Zar.
Open letter from Cavs owner Dan Gilbert to Cleveland...
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html
Wow, he certainly didn't hold back.
"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE"
Quote from: Litehouse on July 08, 2010, 11:21:16 PM
Open letter from Cavs owner Dan Gilbert to Cleveland...
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html
Wow, he certainly didn't hold back.
"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE"
He definitely took the high road
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 08, 2010, 11:32:06 PM
He definitely took the high road
Sounds like something Buzz would do huh Chicos?
Quote from: SacWarrior on July 08, 2010, 11:44:31 PM
Sounds like something Buzz would do huh Chicos?
No, I'd expect he would have one of his assistants deliver the negative message
Nate Silver says LeBron may have just cost himself $150Million in endorsements. I don't think LeBron's Q rating will fall as much as Favre's, but I do agree that it'll take a hit
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/07/did-lebron-james-just-cost-himself-150.html
Also, Dave Berri stacks up LeBron, Wade, and Bosh against the all-time best trios (they rank fifth).
http://dberri.wordpress.com/2010/07/08/does-a-dynamic-trio-guarantee-a-title/
Quote from: Litehouse on July 08, 2010, 11:21:16 PM
Open letter from Cavs owner Dan Gilbert to Cleveland...
http://www.nba.com/cavaliers/news/gilbert_letter_100708.html
Wow, he certainly didn't hold back.
"I PERSONALLY GUARANTEE THAT THE CLEVELAND CAVALIERS WILL WIN AN NBA CHAMPIONSHIP BEFORE THE SELF-TITLED FORMER 'KING' WINS ONE"
I love the sentiment from Gilbert, but that will be a very hard guarantee to back up. Cleveland without LBJ is maybe a 30-win team at best. The only big-time free agent in the near future is Carmelo, and I think he'll land in New York, possibly Chicago, but no way will he go to the Cavs. And as much as I think Miami will fall short of expectations next year and probably the year after that, years 3-6 of these deals will be very rosy in terms of a title outlook. Unless he can manage to swing a trade that bring in the roster of the Lakers in exchange for what's in Cleveland now, I think he's probably blowing smoke.
Posnanski
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2010/07/08/the-lebron-decision/
Seriously, if you don't read Posnanski regularly, you are missing out
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on July 08, 2010, 11:18:17 PM
I saw that.
I guess it's pine time for Zar.
You mean he's not going to be on an NBA roster on opening night?
Quote from: MUDish on July 08, 2010, 09:38:48 PM
They'll be VERY good, but the East is very deep. Who on the Heat is guarding Dwight Howard? Who's guarding Derrick Rose? If Garnett is healthy next season, Boston is built better than the Heat (as currently constructed).
I love arguments like this that look at only half the equation. Why are Howard and Rose the only guys that need to be guarded? Who's gonna guard LBJ? Who's gonna guard Wade? Who's gonna guard Bosh? Nobody can guard Dwight Howard today. How'd that work out in the playoffs for Orlando last year? (BTW, they went also 2-2 against last year' Heat).
As a Cleveland fan I will say this about what happened last night... I don't blame him for leaving, everyone has their own personal motivations and if he wanted to go to Miami then so be it, that's the way it goes. The thing that truly hurts though is his audacity to promote this thing to no end and hype it as much as possible and to be so egotistical that he would personally stab his hometown, MY hometown through the heart on national TV. That's what hurts, and to realize that if our own homegrown superstar won't stay in CLE, then what hope do we ever really have of succedding over the big market cities that athletes actually want to be a part of? We have had "The Drive" "The Shot" "The Fumble" "Red right 88" "The 9th inning meltdown" "The move" and now we have "The Decision" to go into our bank of dreadful sports moments in Cleveland. I can only hope that in time just ONE of our teams wins a Championship and having gone through all of the above tragedies, it will only make that championship THAt much sweeter for us all!!!
As for the Gilbert letter, not very professional, but it is how we all basically feel to be honest. The gaurantee of a Championship is way over the top and HIGHLY unlikely obviously.
MIAMI THRICE
Funny how nobody believed this could happen a week ago when i suggested it
Quote from: elephantraker on July 09, 2010, 10:31:01 AM
MIAMI THRICE
Funny how nobody believed this could happen a week ago when i suggested it
Yeah it was your idea.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 09, 2010, 10:12:08 AM
I love arguments like this that look at only half the equation. Why are Howard and Rose the only guys that need to be guarded? Who's gonna guard LBJ? Who's gonna guard Wade? Who's gonna guard Bosh? Nobody can guard Dwight Howard today. How'd that work out in the playoffs for Orlando last year? (BTW, they went also 2-2 against last year' Heat).
Argument was based on the fact that Miami is apparently "done" building. Fact is they have no one to guard players like Howard and Rose. Miami HAS NO ONE ELSE on their roster (not sure how that isn't coming through to most people). Literally they have 5 people signed, that's it.
Boozer is guarding Bosh. Deng is guarding LBJ. Rose would guard Wade as currently constructed.
Quote from: MUDish on July 09, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
Argument was based on the fact that Miami is apparently "done" building. Fact is they have no one to guard players like Howard and Rose. Miami HAS NO ONE ELSE on their roster (not sure how that isn't coming through to most people). Literally they have 5 people signed, that's it.
Boozer is guarding Bosh. Deng is guarding LBJ. Rose would guard Wade as currently constructed.
But what about their three 2nd rounders? Didn't you hear that each one is going to be a contributor this season? Especially the fat one and the skinny one who could only do 3 reps on the bench.
Quote from: MUDish on July 09, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
Argument was based on the fact that Miami is apparently "done" building. Fact is they have no one to guard players like Howard and Rose. Miami HAS NO ONE ELSE on their roster (not sure how that isn't coming through to most people). Literally they have 5 people signed, that's it.
Boozer is guarding Bosh. Deng is guarding LBJ. Rose would guard Wade as currently constructed.
Any clues on where the Bulls go from here? Are the Wes Matthews rumors a possibility, or are they looking in other directions?
Quote from: MUDish on July 09, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
Boozer is guarding Bosh. Deng is guarding LBJ. Rose would guard Wade as currently constructed.
I'd put Noah on Bosh. I'd hopefully put Wes on Wade haha.
James and Wade are really going to take it to a lot of teams. I really think that Noah, Gibson, and Boozer will be a lot better than Bosh and Dexter Pittman. The Bulls were unwilling to trade Noah for Bosh it sounds like, which should say something.
I've heard they've thought about trying to get Arenas for 50 cents on the dollar. Not sure how far those discussions have gone, but they've kicked the tires on it.
They've been in contact in the last 12 hours with both Korver and Brewer. Redick is leaning towards going back to Orlando from what I hear.
Quote from: MUDish on July 09, 2010, 10:58:51 AM
Argument was based on the fact that Miami is apparently "done" building. Fact is they have no one to guard players like Howard and Rose. Miami HAS NO ONE ELSE on their roster (not sure how that isn't coming through to most people). Literally they have 5 people signed, that's it.
Boozer is guarding Bosh. Deng is guarding LBJ. Rose would guard Wade as currently constructed.
Well then your argument is kinda stupid unless you think the Heat are going to go with 5 people on their roster. You have already declared that Boston is better, and that the Big Three experiment is essentially a failure, without knowing who else is on the team.
As I said a day or two ago, much wishful thinking going on around here by Bulls fans. The Bulls will be decent, but nothing more than that. Heck, LBJ won 60+ last year without Wade and Bosh. To suggest that theHeat cannot put together a supporting cast better than the Cavaliers had (when you include Wade and Bosh), or significantly better than the Heat had (when you include LBJ and Bosh) is lunacy.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 09, 2010, 11:20:30 AM
The Bulls were unwilling to trade Noah for Bosh it sounds like, which should say something.
Yes, it says that Wade and LeBron were never serious about going to the Bulls.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 09, 2010, 11:20:30 AM
I'd put Noah on Bosh. I'd hopefully put Wes on Wade haha.
James and Wade are really going to take it to a lot of teams. I really think that Noah, Gibson, and Boozer will be a lot better than Bosh and Dexter Pittman. The Bulls were unwilling to trade Noah for Bosh it sounds like, which should say something.
I would
Like we discussed before, I probably would've traded Noah for Bosh if it had meant landing LeBron and like I've said I think people are almost too high on Noah... Bosh is a much better all around player if you ask me (I would think that it would have done so, but who knows?).
Boozer/Noah/Gibson > Bosh/Pittman/and I'm saying likely Shaq
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 09, 2010, 11:27:30 AM
I would
Like we discussed before, I probably would've traded Noah for Bosh if it had meant landing LeBron and like I've said I think people are almost too high on Noah... Bosh is a much better all around player if you ask me (I would think that it would have done so, but who knows?).
Boozer/Noah/Gibson > Bosh/Pittman/and I'm saying likely Shaq
There is absolutely no doubt Bosh is an overall better player than Noah. Noah is a fraction of the price though. And the Bulls end up with the better frontline easily. The Bulls can still add back Brad Miller as a backup.
I'd love to see Shaq down there. Add a little more drama to all of this.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior on July 09, 2010, 11:27:30 AM
like I've said I think people are almost too high on Noah... Bosh is a much better all around player if you ask me
Agreed, one season of 11-11, after two years of 6-ish-6ish, is not particularly exciting to me. Bosh has been a consistent 20-10 throughout his career. Noah is more Drew Gooden than he is Chris Bosh.
Quote from: HoopsMalone on July 09, 2010, 11:34:51 AM
I'd love to see Shaq down there. Add a little more drama to all of this.
I would too. He's obviously broken down and can't really play anymore, but I've always loved him, and I think it would be kind of interesting to throw him into that group.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on July 09, 2010, 11:25:45 AM
Well then your argument is kinda stupid unless you think the Heat are going to go with 5 people on their roster. You have already declared that Boston is better, and that the Big Three experiment is essentially a failure, without knowing who else is on the team.
As I said a day or two ago, much wishful thinking going on around here by Bulls fans. The Bulls will be decent, but nothing more than that. Heck, LBJ won 60+ last year without Wade and Bosh. To suggest that theHeat cannot put together a supporting cast better than the Cavaliers had (when you include Wade and Bosh), or significantly better than the Heat had (when you include LBJ and Bosh) is lunacy.
Because of salary restrictions, it will take the Heat a couple years to really build a roster. They look to me like a very potent team for the regular season, but I think a 7-game series with the Magic or Celtics will be too much for them at first. Bosh, Wade, and James would have to each post 44 to 46 mpg for about 100-115 games if they want to have a legitimate shot at a title in the first season. Will they manage that? I doubt it.
The Bulls will be good, but I'm a die-hard Bulls fan and see them winning 45-50 games and probably battling tooth and nail with the Bucks for the Central Division. If they can add the right kind of second-tier guys with the $18 mil they have left, Chicago can challenge teams like the Heat right now. Will they challenge the Magic? Doubtful. Will they keep up with the Heat for 2-3 years, much less 5? Doubtful, unless they find a Carmelo-like superstar to pair with Rose. But I still think they'll be a good team and I wouldn't rule them out as a team that will challenge the top dogs, especially as Rose improves as a player.
And make no mistake, Noah is not the player Bosh is, but he's much more cost efficient and we know the kind of tenacity he has, making him an excellent role-player. He can be a starter on a championship team with the right pieces around him, and he's certainly better than any of the centers we previously won titles with.
I've never argued the Heat won't be very good next season. They'll be a 60 win team, should be top seed in the East. Celtics/Magic though we'll give them all they can handle.
Fact is you have to have depth to get through a season and win a title. No team has ever had 7 (at least) minimum salary players on a roster. It'll be fascinating to watch how they build that roster.
Bulls are a top 4/5 team in the East. I don't see anyone saying their winning a title this coming season, but they have a solid core right now, and most importantly, a ton of flexibility still.
Noah's a solid young big man, on a championship type team, he's a great piece. He doesn't need the ball on offense, rebounds, defends, does the little things most guys don't want to do. He's not going to be an All Star, but is a solid piece.
Whenever I hear people predict that someone or some team will never win a championship because they....I think back to the spring of 1989 in McCormick Hall when a guy who lived on my floor said "Michael Jordan will never win a championship because he is too selfish".
Since then, I go out of my way to try never to make predictions because you can look soooo foolish in hindsight.
Quote from: MUDish on July 09, 2010, 11:52:51 AM
I've never argued the Heat won't be very good next season. They'll be a 60 win team, should be top seed in the East. Celtics/Magic though we'll give them all they can handle.
Fact is you have to have depth to get through a season and win a title. No team has ever had 7 (at least) minimum salary players on a roster. It'll be fascinating to watch how they build that roster.
Bulls are a top 4/5 team in the East. I don't see anyone saying their winning a title this coming season, but they have a solid core right now, and most importantly, a ton of flexibility still.
Noah's a solid young big man, on a championship type team, he's a great piece. He doesn't need the ball on offense, rebounds, defends, does the little things most guys don't want to do. He's not going to be an All Star, but is a solid piece.
Felt when this came together this would be the weakest Heat team for several years. Still believe that. Heisler of the Times says something similar today.
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-heisler-nba-finals-20110531,0,6027180,full.column
Of course the CBA could change that, but I'll stick to my guns that if you want to stop the Heat for the next 3 or 4 years, this is the last year to do it.