Illinois

[Pakuni]

Hards ... that's a truly terrible take in defense of a truly terrible take.

A bunch of neighborhoods that are all very similar? Oy...

[Coleman]

There is a lot I agree with, and a lot I disagree with here as well.  I'm very aware of the racial disparity, and the, "Madison Racism" because I frequently make fun of it.  But, you're missing the point, I'm not calling it paradise.  I'm saying these things make it comparable to Chicago in a lot of ways.  And that is the main problem.  Obviously, you've seen the common council on tv or clips on the internet... they are the wackiest most unreasonable people there are.  I can't criticize anything that is liberal in the city without being called a Republican.  And I'm clearly not.  I just can see the forest from the trees.

You'll see a lot of young dipsticks here trying to defend Chicago, like it is a city that actually matters.  It doesn't.  The culture of Chicago?  What is that?  A city that burned to the ground and was replaced with a grid?  Wow.  I'm so impressed.  It's just a big city in the Midwest that isn't Detroit. But seriously, explain what is awesome about Chicago.  Please.  Sure, some Jazz roots... but its not NOLA or Memphis.  So tell me.  Make me love your city.  I haven't been able to in the almost 40 years of my life.  Its a bunch of neighborhoods that are all very similar.  It isn't a world class city.  People who act like Chicago is something great... okay, do you send your kids to public school?  Have you made a life for yourself there past 30?  And when I say this, you can't say that Chicago is great, but you moved to the burbs.  Because then your city isn't great.  Its a fun place to hang out for the weekend, but its not a great city.

I can't wait for the hate mail on this.

New York City.  Compare Chicago to New York.  You can't.  World class city vs Philadelphia of the Midwest without the History.

Lol. Now you’re just trolling. I’m not going to make you love anything. But this whole post screams of ignorance. No one here has claimed Chicago Is more influential than New York City, you’re just moving the goalposts.

I’ll just leave these Here:

https://www.schroders.com/en/insights/economics/london-takes-second-place-in-schroders-global-cities-30-index-despite-brexit-uncertainty/


https://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2018t.html

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois

https://time.com/3393565/best-museums-trip-advisor/

[Hards Alumni]

Lol. Now you’re just trolling. I’m not going to make you love anything. But this whole post screams of ignorance. No one here has claimed Chicago Is more influential than New York City, you’re just moving the goalposts.

I’ll just leave these Here:

https://www.schroders.com/en/insights/economics/london-takes-second-place-in-schroders-global-cities-30-index-despite-brexit-uncertainty/


https://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/world2018t.html

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/illinois

https://time.com/3393565/best-museums-trip-advisor/

I'm not trolling.  I was a few beers deep.  I love the Field museum, its great.  But I mean... Its not the British Museum, MET, Louvre, Uffizi, Museo Vaticani, Smithsonian, Hermitage... etc. (also, your link goes to a page that doesn't have a list of the best museums on trip advisor)

Those schools are a bunch of private schools.  Should I be impressed that a bunch of rich people send their kids to private schools in Chicago?  I don't get it. 

I've been all over the US and Europe, and Chicago has never impressed me.  Sure, I've had a good time going out, walking around downtown, at the museums and the parks.  But I have never felt like, "Oh this is what people were talking about, what a cool place!"  One of the best times I've had was at the Drifter... but a place like that could exist anywhere. 

Also, did you seriously post a list that ranked San Jose above Paris?  I'm just going to continue to chuckle about that one.

[Pakuni]

Those schools are a bunch of private schools.  Should I be impressed that a bunch of rich people send their kids to private schools in Chicago?  I don't get it. 

Hards .... Those are all public schools.

Look, nobody here is saying Chicago has the best everything in the world. Nor should that be the standard of what differentiates a great city from Detroit. If that were the case, there would be no great cities.

So, yeah, the Field isn't the British Museum. But it's still widely regarded as one of the 5-10 best natural history museums in the world.
The Art Institute isn't the Louvre, but it's consistently ranked as one of the world's top 10 art museums.
Same for the Shedd, Adler and Museum of Science and Industry in their categories.


I could list off a dozen more reasons (from its theater scene to its music culture to its food to its architecture), but I'm guessing you know all these things and just want to defend your argument at this point.

[Galway Eagle]

I'm not trolling.  I was a few beers deep.  I love the Field museum, its great.  But I mean... Its not the British Museum, MET, Louvre, Uffizi, Museo Vaticani, Smithsonian, Hermitage... etc. (also, your link goes to a page that doesn't have a list of the best museums on trip advisor)

Those schools are a bunch of private schools.  Should I be impressed that a bunch of rich people send their kids to private schools in Chicago?  I don't get it. 

I've been all over the US and Europe, and Chicago has never impressed me.  Sure, I've had a good time going out, walking around downtown, at the museums and the parks.  But I have never felt like, "Oh this is what people were talking about, what a cool place!"  One of the best times I've had was at the Drifter... but a place like that could exist anywhere. 

Also, did you seriously post a list that ranked San Jose above Paris?  I'm just going to continue to chuckle about that one.

Those are not a list of private schools so you're clearly talking out of your a$$ here. They are magnet schools, but Lincoln Park still has an area allotment to full fill.

If you're saying each neighborhood is the same then you haven't explored enough. Try going down to Pilsen or up to Little India or little Korea and telling everyone how it's no different than River North. Heck I would like to hear about your experiences at Detroit's "Chinatown" (disclaimer for sultan calling me out for having only been to Detroit twice when I last used that line). Or I'd really like to see you walk into a bar in Beverly and tell them all they're the same as Jefferson park (now that is two Irish Fireman/cop neighborhoods but they'll punch you out of baseball allegiance) But hey according to you they're all the same.

Architecture, Frank Lloyd Wright, Daniel Burnham, Louis Sullivan, etc the remaining buildings of the worlds fair (which you also just completely missed in your bad summary).

Speaking of the cultural remains  of the worlds fair, maybe think of Chicago the next time you ride a Ferris wheel in London being in awe of that city. Or next time you take a pi$$ on Chicago then zip up your fly remember that zipper came from here to. Heck for years Milwaukee's crown achievement of PBR was literally only given a platform because of Chicago's world fair. And after you finished your glass of PBR to put it in the dishwasher, that was only given a platform because of the Chicago worlds fair.

Food, more than Chicago deep dish, hot dog and the Italian beef. Were you a fan of Marquette Gyros? Guess what? Not a Greek food, it was invented in Chicago. Speaking of Greek food I've seen them set saganaki on fire all over the country and it was started in Chicago not Greece. Brownies? Chicago. Not going to even get into the ridiculous amount of other sweets invented here.

I brought up beer before but since this is getting to an actual argument Chicago is the nations beer capitol, we have the most breweries. And quite a few of them are tremendously better than the beers you'll find in any other midwestern city.

The drifter is cute but I'm having trouble believing you actually have made it out of the downtown area, next time you're in the city I'd happy give you a list of various breweries or speakeasy style bars.

You rag on the suburbs and I do to, but even some of the suburbs like Evanston Riverside and Oak Park have more culture in themselves than entire midwestern cities. Speaking of Riverside it's likely that whichever suburb you're from was styled after Riverside. It's where driveways were conceived to give a country estate feel to suburbs.

And the field museum is awesome for years it had the most complete big dinosaur in the world (don't know if that's still the case). But you can leave museum campus and science and industry is an equally impressive museum, a little hard to compare one to those others when our highlight museums are split into Natural History and Science & Industry.

Have you made a life for yourself there past 30?  And when I say this, you can't say that Chicago is great, but you moved to the burbs.  Because then your city isn't great.  Its a fun place to hang out for the weekend, but its not a great city.

Edit: I grew up in a decidedly non unique Chicago neighborhood before moving to one of those suburbs that have more culture than most midwestern cities. There's a lot of people who want a bigger house or larger backyard but can't find the dream house in the city. So they pop over to a suburb.

Every American city has suburbs including NYC, and yes some of those people are obnoxious individuals who would say NYC is a dirty overcrowded violent mess. But some are just people who wanted a yard for their kids no different than people around Chicago.

[Galway Eagle]

Hards .... Those are all public schools.

Look, nobody here is saying Chicago has the best everything in the world. Nor should that be the standard of what differentiates a great city from Detroit. If that were the case, there would be no great cities.

So, yeah, the Field isn't the British Museum. But it's still widely regarded as one of the 5-10 best natural history museums in the world.
The Art Institute isn't the Louvre, but it's consistently ranked as one of the world's top 10 art museums.
Same for the Shedd, Adler and Museum of Science and Industry in their categories.


I could list off a dozen more reasons (from its theater scene to its music culture to its food to its architecture), but I'm guessing you know all these things and just want to defend your argument at this point.

I probably should've just waited for a post like this as opposed to typing my essay on my phone lol

Just going to summarize here:

Nobody:

HARDS: "you all think Chicago is the greatest city in the world but these cities that are hundred of years older and bigger are better! Because of that you suck and are bland"

Chicago people: "well yeah we aren't those but we deserve to be recognized as better than bland"


HARDS: "No I hate your city"

[Hards Alumni]

Hards .... Those are all public schools.

Look, nobody here is saying Chicago has the best everything in the world. Nor should that be the standard of what differentiates a great city from Detroit. If that were the case, there would be no great cities.

So, yeah, the Field isn't the British Museum. But it's still widely regarded as one of the 5-10 best natural history museums in the world.
The Art Institute isn't the Louvre, but it's consistently ranked as one of the world's top 10 art museums.
Same for the Shedd, Adler and Museum of Science and Industry in their categories.


I could list off a dozen more reasons (from its theater scene to its music culture to its food to its architecture), but I'm guessing you know all these things and just want to defend your argument at this point.

Sorry, I see preparatory school and I think private, and that's on me.

No, I genuinely want to know why I should love Chicago.  Other people do, but I can't put it together.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Sorry, I see preparatory school and I think private, and that's on me.

No, I genuinely want to know why I should love Chicago.  Other people do, but I can't put it together.

Then don't.  You don't have to.  Live where you want to live for whatever reason you want.

[Hards Alumni]

Those are not a list of private schools so you're clearly talking out of your a$$ here. They are magnet schools, but Lincoln Park still has an area allotment to full fill.

If you're saying each neighborhood is the same then you haven't explored enough. Try going down to Pilsen or up to Little India or little Korea and telling everyone how it's no different than River North. Heck I would like to hear about your experiences at Detroit's "Chinatown" (disclaimer for sultan calling me out for having only been to Detroit twice when I last used that line). Or I'd really like to see you walk into a bar in Beverly and tell them all they're the same as Jefferson park (now that is two Irish Fireman/cop neighborhoods but they'll punch you out of baseball allegiance) But hey according to you they're all the same.

Architecture, Frank Lloyd Wright, Daniel Burnham, Louis Sullivan, etc the remaining buildings of the worlds fair (which you also just completely missed in your bad summary).

Speaking of the cultural remains  of the worlds fair, maybe think of Chicago the next time you ride a Ferris wheel in London being in awe of that city. Or next time you take a pi$$ on Chicago then zip up your fly remember that zipper came from here to. Heck for years Milwaukee's crown achievement of PBR was literally only given a platform because of Chicago's world fair. And after you finished your glass of PBR to put it in the dishwasher, that was only given a platform because of the Chicago worlds fair.

Food, more than Chicago deep dish, hot dog and the Italian beef. Were you a fan of Marquette Gyros? Guess what? Not a Greek food, it was invented in Chicago. Speaking of Greek food I've seen them set saganaki on fire all over the country and it was started in Chicago not Greece. Brownies? Chicago. Not going to even get into the ridiculous amount of other sweets invented here.

I brought up beer before but since this is getting to an actual argument Chicago is the nations beer capitol, we have the most breweries. And quite a few of them are tremendously better than the beers you'll find in any other midwestern city.

The drifter is cute but I'm having trouble believing you actually have made it out of the downtown area, next time you're in the city I'd happy give you a list of various breweries or speakeasy style bars.

You rag on the suburbs and I do to, but even some of the suburbs like Evanston Riverside and Oak Park have more culture in themselves than entire midwestern cities. Speaking of Riverside it's likely that whichever suburb you're from was styled after Riverside. It's where driveways were conceived to give a country estate feel to suburbs.

And the field museum is awesome for years it had the most complete big dinosaur in the world (don't know if that's still the case). But you can leave museum campus and science and industry is an equally impressive museum, a little hard to compare one to those others when our highlight museums are split into Natural History and Science & Industry.

Edit: I grew up in a decidedly non unique Chicago neighborhood before moving to one of those suburbs that have more culture than most midwestern cities. There's a lot of people who want a bigger house or larger backyard but can't find the dream house in the city. So they pop over to a suburb.

Every American city has suburbs including NYC, and yes some of those people are obnoxious individuals who would say NYC is a dirty overcrowded violent mess. But some are just people who wanted a yard for their kids no different than people around Chicago.

See, you're still not making me want to even like Chicago.  I've seen the buildings, and some of them have character.  Also, you'd be right to say that I haven't really been outside of downtown a TON.  I've spent time on the north side, of course because that is where my friends all stayed.  And that is probably part of the problem.  Walking around the North side, it was all very similar.

I don't care about zippers, bro.  Every city can hang their hat on something stupid like that.  The world's fair?  That's neat, but it is hardly a unique feature of Chicago.

As for best breweries.  No.  There are some good ones, of course, but I know my beer, my dude.  When I go to the Great Taste of the Midwest every year, I'm not standing in line for breweries from Chicago.  GI, Revolution, Half Acre, Metropolitan.  They're all fine breweries.  I can get them up here, and outside of some of the BA beers from GI, I've never bought anything from them that I have bought a second time.  They're completely unremarkable.  Personally, I think MSP has far superior breweries.  I know you're going to list some hole in the wall breweries and tell me that I don't know jack squat about Chicago breweries, but if they were truly great breweries I'd have probably heard of them or at least heard of a beer they've made.   Now, if you're asking my favorite Chicago brewery, it has to be Off Color.  They brought some great stuff to the GTOTM, but I haven't made my way to their tap room yet.

I think we could probably get in this pissing match all day, but I feel like I've hijacked this thread that was supposed to be about Covid in IL waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy too much at this point.

[Galway Eagle]

See, you're still not making me want to even like Chicago.  I've seen the buildings, and some of them have character.  Also, you'd be right to say that I haven't really been outside of downtown a TON.  I've spent time on the north side, of course because that is where my friends all stayed.  And that is probably part of the problem.  Walking around the North side, it was all very similar.

I don't care about zippers, bro.  Every city can hang their hat on something stupid like that.  The world's fair?  That's neat, but it is hardly a unique feature of Chicago.

As for best breweries.  No.  There are some good ones, of course, but I know my beer, my dude.  When I go to the Great Taste of the Midwest every year, I'm not standing in line for breweries from Chicago.  GI, Revolution, Half Acre, Metropolitan.  They're all fine breweries.  I can get them up here, and outside of some of the BA beers from GI, I've never bought anything from them that I have bought a second time.  They're completely unremarkable.  Personally, I think MSP has far superior breweries.  I know you're going to list some hole in the wall breweries and tell me that I don't know jack squat about Chicago breweries, but if they were truly great breweries I'd have probably heard of them or at least heard of a beer they've made.   Now, if you're asking my favorite Chicago brewery, it has to be Off Color.  They brought some great stuff to the GTOTM, but I haven't made my way to their tap room yet.

I think we could probably get in this pissing match all day, but I feel like I've hijacked this thread that was supposed to be about Covid in IL waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy too much at this point.

I really don't care about making you love the city. I care about it not being perceived as a bland crap hole. If you're staying around downtown and I'm guessing when you say north side you're talking Wrigleyville and Lincoln park not West Rogers park or Avondale etc. isn't it presumptuous for say all the neighborhoods are the same?

Zippers was in there so I could use the pissing line. I'm aware that every city has something like that. But the worlds fair is a big deal, and at that era it was only considering world class cities. New York desperately wanted it, Paris was preceding it. London has had it. Yes it went downhill over the years but put it context.

Chicago has the most that was factual. But in the interest of not hijacking this about beer like you said I won't argue with you on that front.

[Pakuni]

Sorry, I see preparatory school and I think private, and that's on me.

No, I genuinely want to know why I should love Chicago.  Other people do, but I can't put it together.

And that's fine. You don't have to love Chicago.

But when you say Chicago is just like any other city in the Midwest, or that all its neighborhoods are very similar, people will call bull---- on that nonsense, because it's so very far from reality.

[Coleman]

I'm not trolling.  I was a few beers deep.  I love the Field museum, its great.  But I mean... Its not the British Museum, MET, Louvre, Uffizi, Museo Vaticani, Smithsonian, Hermitage... etc. (also, your link goes to a page that doesn't have a list of the best museums on trip advisor)

Those schools are a bunch of private schools.  Should I be impressed that a bunch of rich people send their kids to private schools in Chicago?  I don't get it. 

I've been all over the US and Europe, and Chicago has never impressed me.  Sure, I've had a good time going out, walking around downtown, at the museums and the parks.  But I have never felt like, "Oh this is what people were talking about, what a cool place!"  One of the best times I've had was at the Drifter... but a place like that could exist anywhere. 

Also, did you seriously post a list that ranked San Jose above Paris?  I'm just going to continue to chuckle about that one.

Dude...

Art Institute of Chicago, not the Field
Those are all Chicago PUBLIC schools

[Coleman]

One last thing them im done. I can think of one other city (NYC) in the entire country where you can hear significant amounts of people speaking 10+ native languages other than English without trying too hard. You literally just need to go to a place of worship or grocery store in the right neighborhood and you will hear business being conducted in:

Spanish
Polish
Ukrainian
Tons of different Indian and Pakistani languages
Arabic
Mandarin
Cantonese
Yiddish
Greek


It is one of the things I love most about Chicago

[Hards Alumni]

One last thing them im done. I can think of one other city (NYC) in the entire country where you can hear significant amounts of people speaking 10+ native languages other than English without trying too hard. You literally just need to go to a place of worship or grocery store in the right neighborhood and you will hear business being conducted in:

Spanish
Polish
Ukrainian
Tons of different Indian and Pakistani languages
Arabic
Mandarin
Cantonese
Yiddish
Greek


It is one of the things I love most about Chicago

Yet, that occurs many places in California, Boston, and DC.  It isn't unique to Chicago or NYC.

[shoothoops]

There are people who can and do appreciate every place, city, etc...that they have lived or visited. And, there are people that "put down" other places in the attempt to prop themselves up. (Spoiler alert: it isn't effective) This isn't location geography specific, as, some people put other things and people and places, down in attempt to prop themselves up. If for some reason someone or some people find themselves around people who do this, my advice is to be around different people.  I have never been to  a perfect place. Each place is unique to itself. There are good, bad, and indifferent things about every place. People will certainly have personal preferences. But they don't need to have them at the expense of others.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Worst group of people:

1) Chicago natives with an inferiority complex.
2) Non Chicago natives that think they've discovered Utopia compared to Omaha, Des Moines, etc.

* the true answer is, of course, people from St.  Louis.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

One last thing them im done. I can think of one other city (NYC) in the entire country where you can hear significant amounts of people speaking 10+ native languages other than English without trying too hard. You literally just need to go to a place of worship or grocery store in the right neighborhood and you will hear business being conducted in:

Spanish
Polish
Ukrainian
Tons of different Indian and Pakistani languages
Arabic
Mandarin
Cantonese
Yiddish
Greek


It is one of the things I love most about Chicago

Connecticut all over.

[Chili]

See, you're still not making me want to even like Chicago.  I've seen the buildings, and some of them have character.  Also, you'd be right to say that I haven't really been outside of downtown a TON.  I've spent time on the north side, of course because that is where my friends all stayed.  And that is probably part of the problem.  Walking around the North side, it was all very similar.

I don't care about zippers, bro.  Every city can hang their hat on something stupid like that.  The world's fair?  That's neat, but it is hardly a unique feature of Chicago.

As for best breweries.  No.  There are some good ones, of course, but I know my beer, my dude.  When I go to the Great Taste of the Midwest every year, I'm not standing in line for breweries from Chicago.  GI, Revolution, Half Acre, Metropolitan.  They're all fine breweries.  I can get them up here, and outside of some of the BA beers from GI, I've never bought anything from them that I have bought a second time.  They're completely unremarkable.  Personally, I think MSP has far superior breweries.  I know you're going to list some hole in the wall breweries and tell me that I don't know jack squat about Chicago breweries, but if they were truly great breweries I'd have probably heard of them or at least heard of a beer they've made.   Now, if you're asking my favorite Chicago brewery, it has to be Off Color.  They brought some great stuff to the GTOTM, but I haven't made my way to their tap room yet.

I think we could probably get in this pissing match all day, but I feel like I've hijacked this thread that was supposed to be about Covid in IL waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayy too much at this point.

You're showing your lack of knowledge to breweries and beer right now. John & Dave do great things at Off Color though but to say the cities are above Chicago is LAUGHABLE!!!!!

[Hards Alumni]

You're showing your lack of knowledge to breweries and beer right now. John & Dave do great things at Off Color though but to say the cities are above Chicago is LAUGHABLE!!!!!

I knew you'd show up to slap me around.  But, you do have a bit of a bias here. 

Also, I said, "Personally".  I'm not sure why this show my lack of knowledge.  It was an opinion.

[Coleman]

Connecticut all over.

Extension of NYC, but point taken

[Jockey]

I knew you'd show up to slap me around.  But, you do have a bit of a bias here. 

Also, I said, "Personally".  I'm not sure why this show my lack of knowledge.  It was an opinion.

This whole exchange has been pretty funny to me.

People get upset over opinions about anything if it differs from their own. Can't really understand why people want to write long rambling rebuttals just cuz you aren't enamored of a particular city.

[Hards Alumni]

This whole exchange has been pretty funny to me.

People get upset over opinions about anything if it differs from their own. Can't really understand why people want to write long rambling rebuttals just cuz you aren't enamored of a particular city.

It's because I'm a bit of a jerk.

[Galway Eagle]

This whole exchange has been pretty funny to me.

People get upset over opinions about anything if it differs from their own. Can't really understand why people want to write long rambling rebuttals just cuz you aren't enamored of a particular city.

It's one thing to have an opinion when you've properly done a city justice and explored most of it, example: I don't care for Phoenix/Scottsdale. I've been there more times than I can count due to my mom and sister living there and have tried doing a lot down there. But if I were to write off Minneapolis/St Paul because I went up there to visit friends three times and the nightlife was ok but I didn't see anything interesting or unique to me, that being said I was downtown or in eden prairie. Then that would be  ridiculous and I'd hope all the locals would get on my case saying I didn't explore the neighborhoods or right spots etc.

[Hards Alumni]

It's one thing to have an opinion when you've properly done a city justice and explored most of it, example: I don't care for Phoenix/Scottsdale. I've been there more times than I can count due to my mom and sister living there and have tried doing a lot down there. But if I were to write off Minneapolis/St Paul because I went up there to visit friends three times and the nightlife was ok but I didn't see anything interesting or unique to me, that being said I was downtown or in eden prairie. Then that would be  ridiculous and I'd hope all the locals would get on my case saying I didn't explore the neighborhoods or right spots etc.

Okay, I've been to Chicago at least 40 times.  When can I make a judgement?  Do I have to explore every city block?  Every highlight and lowlight?  Plenty of people here called Madison things, but you don't see my defending it like its my child.

[JWags85]

It’s cause your argument has went so completely absurd and over the top. Calling Madison a mini-Chicago got some pushback but some understanding.

Saying you don’t care or like Chicago would get some shrugs. Maybe some arguments why you should.

But saying it’s not a world class or “great” city is just absurd, not rooted facts or in anything but a negative personal opinion, and fires up people who have justified love for their home or current city.