Got home from the Final Four today.  Have been to 3 men's Final Fours, this was the first women's one I've been to.  Definitely a very different atmosphere.  They do a really good job of putting it on, though it would be nice to start the Championship match (and second semifinal match) before 8:00 PM local time.

Was very surprised Nebraska pushed Stanford as much as they did.  Watching them play Illinois in the semifinals I thought if Illinois won it'd be a decent match that Stanford wins in 4 close sets.  When Nebraska won I thought Nebraska might ride the "home crowd" (in Minneapolis, but it was 80% Nebraska fans, 15% neutral, and 5% Stanford fans, at best) to one set, but thought Stanford would control the match.  I actually thought Nebraska really kind of outplayed Stanford.  Nebraska was very error prone in the semifinals but really cleaned it up in the Finals.

The first time I saw this star-studded junior class for Stanford was their Elite 8 match at Wisconsin their freshman year and I said then that their libero was the best player in that group.  Despite 2 NPOYs for Plummer, I completely stand by that.  She's an absolute standout.  There are a lot of Plummers (and better...Plummer is very smooth and good at all aspects, but there are far better/more dynamic athletes) at the next level.  There aren't a lot of Hentz's at the next level.  The one thing Hentz will have to adjust is playing your more "standard" base position defensively at the next level.  At this level her reads are so dang good and she's so quick in reacting that they just let her freelance defensively and it almost always works out, but at the next level the speed of the game will have her getting burned if she plays that way.  But goodness is she good and fun to watch.

I think women's volleyball in general at the college level tries to run too quick of a tempo offense, especially teams with big guns on the outside (like Stanford).  My opinion is Nebraska was in that match because they just aired out their offense and let their best player be the best player.  Stanford ran quick sets to the pin all match and it left Plummer with one shot pretty much all night and Nebraska was reading it well and closing on her.  She's the kind of player that you can just chuck a sky ball to and let her see the block and use it.  That's what Nebraska did with Foecke and it almost won them a Title.

I didn't realize until today that Lexi Sun was the stud transfer from Texas.  I could not have been less impressed with her all weekend.  Big errors in big situations, a horrible serve receive passer, and offensively plays like she's on the beach with a bunch of cut shots that don't do much in indoor.  I'd have taken either of Marquette's OHs over her honestly.  I thought Stanford's second OH was weak as well, but at least she makes smart, high hand swings and is a nail gun passer in serve reception, which is the most important thing in an L2.  It honestly felt like whenever she got a kill it was more a sense of relief than excitement or an expectation.  I don't see how she was ranked the top recruit in her class.

The Illinois setter was really, really good.  Liked watching her play and wanted the Illini to win to see her for a second match.  To me the best players at the Final Four were her, the OH from Illinois, Foecke, and Hentz.

Last thought is that it's amazing how big of a gap there is between the very top teams and a team that's ranked 15 or so (like Marquette).  Marquette was a legit top 15 team this season as proven by their ranking and making the Sweet 16, plus wins against teams like USC, but they lost 19-25, 21-25, 16-25 to Illinois, and having seen Marquette in person a couple times and watching the Final Four, that's about what I'd have expected the scores to be.  I'd be surprised if they scored 20 in any set if they were to play Stanford or Nebraska either.  Wisconsin smoked them after a very competitive first set as well.  MU took a set off of BYU but BYU wasn't even competitive with Stanford (despite being the only team to beat Stanford this year in an early season match).  The only players on Marquette who I think could even compete at that level at their respective positions are their libero and 2 OHs.  Their middles block well but neither is super quick and I think would get lost against those weapons.  Definitely a great season for MU, but still a long way to go to get to the level of play I saw this weekend.

Quote from: wadesworld on December 16, 2018, 09:50:16 PMLast thought is that it's amazing how big of a gap there is between the very top teams and a team that's ranked 15 or so (like Marquette).  Marquette was a legit top 15 team this season as proven by their ranking and making the Sweet 16, plus wins against teams like USC, but they lost 19-25, 21-25, 16-25 to Illinois, and having seen Marquette in person a couple times and watching the Final Four, that's about what I'd have expected the scores to be.  I'd be surprised if they scored 20 in any set if they were to play Stanford or Nebraska either.  Wisconsin smoked them after a very competitive first set as well.  MU took a set off of BYU but BYU wasn't even competitive with Stanford (despite being the only team to beat Stanford this year in an early season match).  The only players on Marquette who I think could even compete at that level at their respective positions are their libero and 2 OHs.  Their middles block well but neither is super quick and I think would get lost against those weapons.  Definitely a great season for MU, but still a long way to go to get to the level of play I saw this weekend.

This is so, so true.  I have to laugh because the Georgetown board has a volleyball section, and there was a poster last year that was complaining that Georgetown wasn't competing for national championships in volleyball.  While I agree that Georgetown needs to get better, competing for national championships is just an absurd goal (competing for a spot in the Big East tourney was a nice start).  There are about a half-dozen teams that are legitimately competing for national championships in volleyball.  And, as you said, the gap between them and the next level of teams is enormous.  Creighton and Marquette were outstanding teams this year and undeniably head and shoulders above the rest of the conference.  But it would be an absolutely earth-shattering "Douglas beats Tyson" upset if they won the title.  Probably even bigger than that.

I was really disappointed when Stanford and Nebraska won in the semis because I would have really liked to see some new blood.  And even BYU and Illinois -- either of which would have been seen as a real surprise -- are among a group that has been hanging around the top for years.  I just took a look at the last 10 final fours and it's amazing how few teams have been involved:

• Only 18 teams have played in the FF:  Tex (7); Penn St. (6); Stanford (4); Nebraska (4); Minnesota (3); BYU (2); Illinois (2); USC (2); Florida (1); Kansas (1); Wisconsin (1); Washington (1); Oregon (1); Michigan (1); UCLA (1); FSU (1); Cal (1); Hawaii (1).
• Only 11 teams have played in the championship match:  Penn State (4); Texas (4); Nebraska (3); Stanford (2); Florida (1); BYU (1); Wisconsin (1); Oregon (1); UCLA (1); Illinois (1) and Cal (1).
• Ony 5 teams have won titles:  Penn State (4); Stanford (2); Nebraska (2); Texas (1) and UCLA (1).

So, even this year's "underdogs" in the Final Four (Illinois and BYU) are among the truly elite with both having played in the championship match and multiple final fours in the past decade.

I would love to see someone -- anyone -- from a conference other than the BIG or PAC (and Texas) win a title.  But, it will be an extraordinary upset when it happens.  It looked like maybe BYU had a shot this year, but they had some bad luck down the stretch with injuries.

Question for you volleyball observers ...

I watched Marquette's NCAA game and was a little surprised that neither MU nor Illinois had a black player. Is this the norm?

Years ago, it seemed many girls played both volleyball in the fall and basketball in the winter. That made sense to me because of the premium on height in both sports and also the hand-to-eye coordination aspect of the games. When I got the assistant bkb coaching job at my current high school a couple years ago, I was very surprised that not a single one of our players also played volleyball. Our coach said he had only one volleyball player in 5 years as hoops coach, and she was an end-of-the-bench player.

Maybe it's all part of the specialization thing, in which kids are urged (or even forced) at an early age to pick one sport ... and the black girls just gravitate to basketball?

Or maybe there simply aren't very many opportunities for black girls to take up volleyball at a relatively early age.

Anyway, as one who has long been interested in the intersection of race and athletics, I couldn't help but noticing the lily-white nature of that MU-Illinois game.

Quote from: MU82 on December 17, 2018, 09:26:47 AM
Question for you volleyball observers ...

I watched Marquette's NCAA game and was a little surprised that neither MU nor Illinois had a black player. Is this the norm?

Years ago, it seemed many girls played both volleyball in the fall and basketball in the winter. That made sense to me because of the premium on height in both sports and also the hand-to-eye coordination aspect of the games. When I got the assistant bkb coaching job at my current high school a couple years ago, I was very surprised that not a single one of our players also played volleyball. Our coach said he had only one volleyball player in 5 years as hoops coach, and she was an end-of-the-bench player.

Maybe it's all part of the specialization thing, in which kids are urged (or even forced) at an early age to pick one sport ... and the black girls just gravitate to basketball?

Or maybe there simply aren't very many opportunities for black girls to take up volleyball at a relatively early age.

Anyway, as one who has long been interested in the intersection of race and athletics, I couldn't help but noticing the lily-white nature of that MU-Illinois game.

I would say that having two teams facing off with no black players on either roster would be pretty unusual.  But without question, a significant majority of volleyball players are white.  I think the biggest factor is almost certainly financial.  There are two aspects to this.  First, club volleyball is quite expensive.  And playing club is virtually essential to get an opportunity to play in college. Second, in many parts of the country, private schools dominate high school volleyball (in no small part because in many places parochial schools start CYO volleyball up to 3-4 years earlier than public schools start volleyball).

Quote from: StillAWarrior on December 17, 2018, 09:52:17 AM
I would say that having two teams facing off with no black players on either roster would be pretty unusual.  But without question, a significant majority of volleyball players are white.  I think the biggest factor is almost certainly financial.  There are two aspects to this.  First, club volleyball is quite expensive.  And playing club is virtually essential to get an opportunity to play in college. Second, it many parts of the country, private schools dominate high school volleyball (in no small part because in many places parochial schools start CYO volleyball up to 3-4 years earlier than public schools start volleyball).

I think this is part of it.  Guys side, too. My son's HS team was very good, won the CIF Southern Section and finished runner-up for the state championship a few years ago....he was the only player on the team not in club because he also was the school's goalie for soccer....didn't have time.  His college club mates, all were club players in HS except him.  The costs are crazy.  Same for the ladies.  I hate how specialized we are in sports, felt his background as a soccer and baseball player were very helpful, but coaches want reps reps reps and commitment to the one sport.  The $$ ends up excluding some folks. 

In an interesting twist on MU82's comments, my son was only one of two Caucasians on the team.  We live in an area that is mostly Asian and Hispanic.

Wades made another comment about gap in talent.  I find this to be the case with most women's sports and not sure if it is due to volumes of participants that aren't rising to the elite level, or is it something else.  As an example, the 100th ranked men's BBall team, golfer, tennis player, etc can beat number one and though it is an upset, it happens.  On the women's side, if the 100th ranked women's b-ball team beatbox uconn it would be a miracle.  The depth isn't there and the great players all congregate to just a few schools.  Same for women's tennis and other sports.  Is it because those elite players and teams are simply that much beter, or is it a lack of overall distribution of great talent that prevents more of this from happening.

One other item of note to MU82's question, the USA women's team was at our high school about 18 months ago doing an exhibition....Karch brought two teams with him.  Mostly Caucasian.  One of the local girls is on the squad, Justine Wong.  The African American players were Adams, Whitney and Akinradewo that were in the gym. 

I remember the days of Flo Hyman and Rita Crockett on the '84 team, but it was also dominated mostly by Caucasian women even before the "club" era.

Thanks for the answers, y'all. Interesting stuff.

My daughter was on the basketball team at Lawrence U in Appleton, a D3 school. Her freshman year, the men's team was undefeated almost the entire season - got written up by SI, AP, etc. The women's team also was good, and I went to see several games (usually a women's game, followed by a men's game).

I couldn't help but notice early on that of the 33 players on the two teams, not one was black. Not one!

That's when you know you're at Caucasian U, when even the basketball teams are lily white!

Two big transfers for Marquette, 6'0" outside hitter Kaitlyn Lines from Pacific who will have two years of eligibility left and 6'3" right side Gwyn Jones from Auburn.

Volleyball transfers are eligible right away and this should give Theis the flexibility he likes to have from his pins with Haak graduating, Lines may actually be an upgrade.

Just need another middle, doubt they get a stud transfer this late in the game but who knows.

West Coast volleyball is back!!!!

Hawai'i vs Long Beach State for the title on Saturday.

May have to start calling the NCAA Tournament the Big West Conference Tournament Part Deux.

Marquette men's club team finished 5th in the NCVF National Championships two weeks ago in Denver.  Lost to Illinois 15-12 in final set.  MU's best player got hurt earlier with ankle injury...he made 2nd team all national.  Unfortunate as they might have won the whole thing.  Illinois ended up going to the final and losing to Cal Poly for the title losing 18-16 in final set.

MU beat UC San Diego, Fresno State, Iowa, Arizona State, North Carolina State.

MU finished 5th nationally last year, too...and was 3rd the year before that.

I remember back in the days when the women's club soccer team performed extremely well and eventually the athletic dept added them as a varsity sport.  Wish we would do same for men's volleyball and compete against Lewis, Loyola Chicago, etc.  The current Wisconsin high school player of the year plays at MU, along with Calif Div 4 player of the year and one of the Illinois players of the year.  Good kids, certainly not D1 varsity level, but would love to see MU commit to it. 

Quote from: Cheeks on May 03, 2019, 10:18:40 AM
Marquette men's club team finished 5th in the NCVF National Championships two weeks ago in Denver.  Lost to Illinois 15-12 in final set.  MU's best player got hurt earlier with ankle injury...he made 2nd team all national.  Unfortunate as they might have won the whole thing.  Illinois ended up going to the final and losing to Cal Poly for the title losing 18-16 in final set.

MU beat UC San Diego, Fresno State, Iowa, Arizona State, North Carolina State.

MU finished 5th nationally last year, too...and was 3rd the year before that.

I remember back in the days when the women's club soccer team performed extremely well and eventually the athletic dept added them as a varsity sport.  Wish we would do same for men's volleyball and compete against Lewis, Loyola Chicago, etc.  The current Wisconsin high school player of the year plays at MU, along with Calif Div 4 player of the year and one of the Illinois players of the year.  Good kids, certainly not D1 varsity level, but would love to see MU commit to it.

I mean they definitely could. Volleyball is a pretty inexpensive sport especially considering they already have the sport court for the women's.

Also no D1 programs in Wisconsin so recruiting would be difficult but not impossible.

The question is, what women's sport do you add?

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on May 03, 2019, 10:23:25 AM
I mean they definitely could. Volleyball is a pretty inexpensive sport especially considering they already have the sport court for the women's.

Also no D1 programs in Wisconsin so recruiting would be difficult but not impossible.

The question is, what women's sport do you add?

Women's golf or softball.  Bowling another one.

I think no D1 programs in Wisconsin is why you want to do this. I see that as an opportunity.  States of Illinois and Indiana each have one, plus there are several division II schools in Illinois as well. 

Quote from: Macallan 18 on May 03, 2019, 09:27:15 AM
West Coast volleyball is back!!!!

Hawai'i vs Long Beach State for the title on Saturday.

May have to start calling the NCAA Tournament the Big West Conference Tournament Part Deux.

I guess Hawaii can be considered part of the West Coast if you want it to be.

Big volleyball day here.  Our high school tries for third straight Final Four this afternoon.

Then heading over to the LB for the men's NCAA title.   Both teams with many Calif players and a huge number from Orange County where my kids grew up playing.  Will be fun with plenty of local backing for both teams.

I'm just glad the NCAA expanded the tournament participants as I mentioned years ago they should.  They still need to go at least two more, but they are making progress.  They will get there eventually.

Long Beach with the win over Hawaii..and our boys HS made third straight Final Four despite losing our middle to an ankle sprain very first play of match, and then losing our best OH to same injury in second set.  Tough 5 setter, but great comeback win.

Rough day for former MU coach Bond Shymansky.  Placed on administrative leave pending investigation of what are being characterized as "significant" and "serious" NCAA violations.  According to the article, in the AD's presser he said, "It's a difficult day...There are a lot of emotions ... anger, sadness...(Our motto is) Win, Graduate, Do It Right. Clearly in this case, (Shymansky) came up short in 'Do It Right.'"  No bueno.


Update:  Perhaps this is SOP in such situations, but it seems ominous that Iowa already named an Interim Head Coach.

Interesting...I always though Marquette was gonna take a big step back after Bond left, but Theis has not missed a beat since taking over.

Even after navigating several transfers of starters that would have eventually broken the MU all time kills record (Autumn Bailey, and Taylor Louis) MU has never missed a tourney under him.

The grass isn't always greener, eh?

Quote from: StillAWarrior on May 20, 2019, 04:09:39 PM
Rough day for former MU coach Bond Shymansky.  Placed on administrative leave pending investigation of what are being characterized as "significant" and "serious" NCAA violations.  According to the article, in the AD's presser he said, "It's a difficult day...There are a lot of emotions ... anger, sadness...(Our motto is) Win, Graduate, Do It Right. Clearly in this case, (Shymansky) came up short in 'Do It Right.'"  No bueno.


Update:  Perhaps this is SOP in such situations, but it seems ominous that Iowa already named an Interim Head Coach.

If you read about the departure from Georgia Tech........

From the Des Moines Register:  https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/sports/college/iowa/volleyball/2019/05/20/iowa-volleyball-coach-bond-shymansky-administrative-leave-significant-ncaa-violation/3744970002/

Volleyball Nation League final round (at University of Illinois Chicago July 10-14) tickets are now on sale.

I just bought tickets for Saturday night's semifinal rounds (get both matches for less than the single match finals will be, plus a Saturday night vs. a Sunday afternoon).

Should be some good volleyball.

Let's see how Shymansky's deeds play out with the investigation. This may have a tail to MU (although MU not tinged) if I am hearing correctly.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on June 05, 2019, 12:21:49 AM
Let's see how Shymansky's deeds play out with the investigation. This may have a tail to MU (although MU not tinged) if I am hearing correctly.

I suspect we might be hearing something similar.  Are you hearing about a MU/UI transfer?

Marquette put together another outstanding non-conference schedule:

@BYU (2018 RPI 5)
Boise State @BYU (131)
Utah Valley @BYU (92)
@Wisconsin (6)
Syracuse (36)
Baylor (17)
UCF @ISU (10)
Illinois @ISU (2)
@Illinois State (29)
Green Bay (127)
Saint Louis (192)
Northern Iowa (16)

They will be tested heading into the conference season.  The average RPI is 28.

Quote from: StillAWarrior on June 05, 2019, 08:29:08 AM
I suspect we might be hearing something similar.  Are you hearing about a MU/UI transfer?

Yep

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on June 05, 2019, 11:42:47 AM
Yep