CNNSI's Luke Winn's predictions. "Williams would have to seriously botch..."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Putting the pressure on....actually I think it's a good thing.  They need to have these goals with this team.

I won't say Sweet 16 for sure (though WINN did) because it depends on the matchups, but interesting takes in his top 25 with plenty of things relating to the Big East, MU, IU, etc.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/luke_winn/07/08/2008-2009-fearless-basketball-predictions/?cnn=yes

[MUBasketball]

Personally, I think that's a really dumb comment by Winn. Is MU much different than last year?? Pretty much the same team, aside from an extra year's experience. Otherwise, lost some nice parts to the team, while replacing it with pretty good talent. Kind of a wash.

So did Crean botch things by not making the Sweet 16 this year? Or, is it just really hard to make it? I'd take the latter.

And as you say, depends a lot on matchups.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Personally, I think that's a really dumb comment by Winn. Is MU much different than last year?? Pretty much the same team, aside from an extra year's experience. Otherwise, lost some nice parts to the team, while replacing it with pretty good talent. Kind of a wash.

So did Crean botch things by not making the Sweet 16 this year? Or, is it just really hard to make it? I'd take the latter.

And as you say, depends a lot on matchups.

I think if MU played just about any other 3 seed last year other then Stanford, they make the Sweet 16.  As it was, they missed it by 1 second. 

Tough predicting NCAA advancement until you see the pairings.  Nevertheless, the expectations on this team for this year will be quite high nationally.  Let's hope the boys are up for the task.

[MU gimp ONE]

So did Crean botch things by not making the Sweet 16 this year? Or, is it just really hard to make it? I'd take the latter.

alright, i'll be the first to say it.  yes Crean did botch things last year by not making the sweet 16.  not only that, i think he botched his chance at the elite 8 considering we would have matched up well with Texas.  I don't know how anyone out there could not say that Crean botched that stanford game

[nola03]

alright, i'll be the first to say it.  yes Crean did botch things last year by not making the sweet 16.  not only that, i think he botched his chance at the elite 8 considering we would have matched up well with Texas.  I don't know how anyone out there could not say that Crean botched that stanford game

Probably because if Lopez doesn't hit a behind the backboard, turn-around, fadeaway jumper the words "botch" "crean" and "stanford" don't even show up in a power Google search.

Marquette was worthy of a Sweet 16 berth last season. This season, it should be expected regardless of matchups and regardless of the makeup of the team. The top 4 players on this team could be more experienced then any other BCS team's top 4. Barring injuries, that alone should negate any issues that arise this season.

[rocky_warrior]

the words "botch" "crean" and "stanford" don't even show up in a power Google search.

But now, thanks to this thread, in a few days MUScoop will be one of the top results for that search.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Crean botched big time alot of stuff, nevertheless his recent teams have been relatively successful.  Buzz will botch stuff too, they will still be very successful.  Sweet 16 depends on matchups and one days shooting percentages hot team etc.  Mu will be very successful over the entire course of the season.  Luke winn probably never picked up a basketball in his life.  Knows nothing about Buzz's ability, will be one of the huge numbers of people looking to kiss his A$$ in a year or two claiming they were behind him or knew he would be good all along. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I hope Buzz is successful as hell, my statement from day 1.  Don't try to change history.  I just think MU took a gamble they didn't need to take.  He's the coach of my alma mater, I'm behind Buzz and want nothing but the best for him, our school and our basketball program.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

You gotta like this one from the article:

8. Illinois coach Bruce Weber will get a couple of extremely satisfying wins over Indiana this year.

[Pakuni]

It's very reasonable to say anything less than a Sweet 16 would be a disappointment for this team, regardless of the matchup.

That said, to say that coming up short of that would equal Buzz "seriously botching" things seems a bit unfair. Buzz could create a brilliant gameplan and make all the right in-game adjustments and it probably wouldn't matter a bit of the Three Amigos shoot 12-for-41 and commit 12 turnovers.
Certainly Buzz botching things could be the cause of MU falling short of the Sweet 16, but it's hardly the only possibility.

 

[4everwarriors]

Botched isn't the right word. More accurately the word that comes to mind rhymes with ducked and sucked.

[Pakuni]

You gotta like this one from the article:

8. Illinois coach Bruce Weber will get a couple of extremely satisfying wins over Indiana this year.

Ha!
That would be like edging out an 11-year-old girl in a chugging competiton then calling your win "extremely satisfying."

[tower912]

It all comes down to match-ups.   They were showing that shot on NBA draft night as part of the Lopez highlight package.   Every time they showed it, it looked tougher.    A strong case can be made that TC did not have his guards pressuring the Cardinal guards enough,  making it far too easy for them to throw the same $%#$^%#$ entry pass over and over again like a basketball version of 'Groundhog Day'.  One shot, the difference between an extremely successful season and a merely good one.    And yes, on paper, we are a year more experienced, Mbakwe could well be better inside than Ooze, Fulce and Butler should give us more than Fitz, and Otule will surely give us more than Blackledge.    So, unless a nightmare matchup hits us, or injuries, or senioritis, or Buzz can't coach, sweet 16 is a reasonable expectation.

[77ncaachamps]

Ultimate Crean Botch?

Missing out of the NCAAs after getting to the Final Four.

Talk about a SUCKY result.

[bilsu]

Blame whoever you want, but we did not make the Sweet 16, because we gave away a home victory over Georgetown. Win that game and we would have been seeded higher than 6th.

[Coach Norman Dale]

Botched isn't the right word. More accurately the that comes to mind rhymes with ducked and sucked.

plucked?
untucked?
trucked?
clucked?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ultimate Crean Botch?

Missing out of the NCAAs after getting to the Final Four.

Talk about a SUCKY result.

A feat shared by many programs and coaches like Bobby Knight at IU, Jim Valvano at NC State, Denny Crum at Louisville, etc, etc.

[MR.HAYWARD]

a feat caused by so numerous woeful recruiting classes and becuse players and coaches were fleeing the program and not just players looking for playing time elsewhere.  His inability to recruit to Mu sans two good classes and his boorish personality have been replaced by a true recruiter, fans will quickly see that Buzz's first two classes are eaqual to anything Crean compiled and he is the complete 180 personality wise of our former coach.  If Crean was half as good as he sold himself tobe his numbers and accomplishments would be alot more impressive.  But you see when you are selling yourself 24/7 for a better opportunity you tend to overhype your results and attempt to make yourself the face of the program.  Good riddance your slow painful demise at IU will be enjoyed.

[jmayer1]

A feat shared by many programs and coaches like Bobby Knight at IU, Jim Valvano at NC State, Denny Crum at Louisville, etc, etc.

I think he was talking about the year after.  Not many teams have done this.  I know there are a few (Minnesota the year after Bobby Jackson and LSU a couple years ago come to mind), but there aren't a lot.

[RawdogDX]

Blame whoever you want, but we did not make the Sweet 16, because we gave away a home victory over Georgetown. Win that game and we would have been seeded higher than 6th.

Exactly, the best way to get to a sweet 16 is to be a 1-4 seed.  Getting there is depends on if our team will be at least a few baskets a game better:
1) a healthy sophmore version of TM
2) a hungry heavily experienced Lazar
3) the addition of fluce
4) continued development of burke
4) the mini three all as despirate senior versions of themselves.
5) the addion of butler.
6) people worry about his shoulders but DC can't be worse than he was at the end of the year so he's either a wash or a step up.
7) Chris Otule

Ouse could be a loss just because of lack of size, but I think burk will be more reliable.
I would say the first one alone is going to more than make up for the loss of fitz or trend. Doesn't everyone?  

It's a team that I should be improved and good for a few extra stops, reb or buckets if Buzz is an above avg xo guy.  
And if we were a basket or two better in several games (Duke, ND, GU, pause to bash head on wall, pitt and stanford) we would have made the sweet 16.  At the end of the year I'm hopeing that we are at least being put in the mix for a 1-4 seed.  It doesn't seem like it would take that much for us to make that jump.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think he was talking about the year after.  Not many teams have done this.  I know there are a few (Minnesota the year after Bobby Jackson and LSU a couple years ago come to mind), but there aren't a lot.

Yup, that's what I was referencing.  Indiana failed to make it to the NCAAs th eyear after the Final Four under Knight.  NC State failed...TWICE to do it after two Final Fours.  Minnesota recently.  Louisville and Maryland I believe did also (going off memory).  Quite a number of elite teams that made the Final Four (some even won the whole enchilada) didn't make it to the NCAAs the very next year....Kansas was one of those teams.  I used to have the list, if I find it I'll post it.  Some big named teams with some big named coaches that didn't make the NCAAs the year after their Final Four run.

[bma725]

Yup, that's what I was referencing.  Indiana failed to make it to the NCAAs th eyear after the Final Four under Knight.  NC State failed...TWICE to do it after two Final Fours.  Minnesota recently.  Louisville and Maryland I believe did also (going off memory).  Quite a number of elite teams that made the Final Four (some even won the whole enchilada) didn't make it to the NCAAs the very next year....Kansas was one of those teams.  I used to have the list, if I find it I'll post it.  Some big named teams with some big named coaches that didn't make the NCAAs the year after their Final Four run.

Out of the 8 Final Four appearances they've had, Louisville has failed to maker the tournament the next year 5 times including two where they didn't even make the post season.  Of course, some of those were in the era prior to at large bids.

1959 Final Four - 1960 No Postseason
1972 Final Four - 1973 NIT(Not Eligible)
1975 Final Four - 1976 NIT
1986 National Champion - 1987 No Postseason
2005 Final Four - 2006 NIT

Indiana has done it 3 times, twice under Bobby Knight, once under Branch McCracken.  Knight's first miss was back in the era when only one team from each conference could make it, so despite sharing the Big Ten title they were not eligible for the NCAA.  The rule was changed the next year: 

1940 National Champion - 1941 No Postseason(not eligible for NCAA)
1973 Final Four - 1974 CCAT Champions(not eligible for NCAA)
1976 National Champion - 1977 No Postseaon

Maryland doesn't make the list.  They made the Final Four in 2001, and came back to win the title in 2002.  In 2003 they made the Sweet Sixteen.

[MuMark]

Wow how quickly we forget.

The 2007 title game was between Florida and Ohio State.

Anybody remember what they were seeded in the 2008 Tournament?  

It does happen folks but if it fits your agenda to think Crean is the only good coach to miss after a final 4 then keep on keeping on.............

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks BMA....as I said, going off memory.  I thought Maryland was one.  Kansas won the title and didn't make the following year.  As Mark states, last year's runner-up and national champion didn't make it this year.

Happens quite frequently and to some top notch coaches.  In some cases it was the years of limited bids, some due to injuries, some due to probation, some due to inexperience and losses of key players.

In 1979 it happened to some unknown school called Kentucky after winning the title in 1978.   

In 1975, NC State didn't make it despite beating Marquette the year before to win the national title.

There are many other examples as well. 

[jmayer1]

I stand corrected.  I thought when MU missed the tourney, I remembered hearing there were only like 4 teams that missed the tourney the year after the final four since the 64(5) team format began in the mid 80s (at that time).  MU lost a lot after the Final Four (2 of 3, if not the 2 best players) but it was disappointing that they couldn't regroup and make the tourney either of the next two years (of course Dieners injury had something to do with that but they were still a bubble team that year and not a lock).