CNNSI's Luke Winn's predictions. "Williams would have to seriously botch..."

[RawdogDX]

We lost our two best players and then the best remaining got hurt the next year.  We would have made it had it not been for that injury.  Crean was just starting to establish himself and hadn't made the recruiting inroads he had later on while here so the depth hadn't been built up yet.  I don't see how anyone can think that this was a huge failure of his coaching.  It's more of CHS (crean hatred syndrome).

[Big Papi]

Exactly, the best way to get to a sweet 16 is to be a 1-4 seed.  Getting there is depends on if our team will be at least a few baskets a game better:
1) a healthy sophmore version of TM
2) a hungry heavily experienced Lazar
3) the addition of fluce
4) continued development of burke
4) the mini three all as despirate senior versions of themselves.
5) the addion of butler.
6) people worry about his shoulders but DC can't be worse than he was at the end of the year so he's either a wash or a step up.
7) Chris Otule

Ouse could be a loss just because of lack of size, but I think burk will be more reliable.
I would say the first one alone is going to more than make up for the loss of fitz or trend. Doesn't everyone?  

It's a team that I should be improved and good for a few extra stops, reb or buckets if Buzz is an above avg xo guy.  
And if we were a basket or two better in several games (Duke, ND, GU, pause to bash head on wall, pitt and stanford) we would have made the sweet 16.  At the end of the year I'm hopeing that we are at least being put in the mix for a 1-4 seed.  It doesn't seem like it would take that much for us to make that jump.

I have to agree with Rawdog here.  Yes anything can happen during the tournament but the expectations of this team is that it has the makings of a top 10-15 team.  That would be a 3-4 seed.  If MU gets a 3-4 seed, the likelihood of them advancing to the Sweet 16 is a lot greater than if they were to get a 6 seed.  If we get a 6 seed this year, then Buzz did indeed botch this season with the exception being multiple season ending injuries to a couple of starters.  Upsets in tournies happen every year.  I would not consider it a botch if we get a 3-4 seed and happen to lose to a hot team in the second round and I while I can't speak for Winn, I have to think that his underlying point is that MU has a very talented team that should be very successful this year.  Failure to contend for the Big East title and get a high seed in the tourny would be a huge botch.

[Daniel]

Wow - the BEast is bigger and badder than ever though - our ecedule is good, but there are many many tough teams in the BEast - and they think the BEast will get 9 teams or more in the tourney - that is one mighty deep conference.  No easy rides there, so we will be challenged every game.  I think we can compete well, and maybe take it, but no smooth road.

[bilsu]

I think MU goes to sweet 16 if they make the tournament. What worries me is the the strenght of the Big East. A very good team could finish in the bottom half of that conference and not get an NCAA bid.

[dennycrane]

I think MU goes to sweet 16 if they make the tournament. What worries me is the the strenght of the Big East. A very good team could finish in the bottom half of that conference and not get an NCAA bid.

Enough whining. Everyone wanted to join a real conference. Now that MU is part of one of the top conferences I read about how tough it is.

If MU can not get it done this year with the team that has been assembled there are major questions to be asked. One of those questions should not be "is the Big East to strong for MU to compete in."

[Henry Sugar]

My personal opinion is that the class of the Big East this year will be Louisville and UConn.  Marquette will fall in the second tier of schools with the potential of finishing anywhere from third through seventh in the Big East.

Last year's NCAA seeds:  GTown (2), UL (3), UConn (4), Pitt (4), ND (5), MU (6), etc...

If they finish third or fourth in the BE, that probably means a four seed in the tournament, especially since there will be a lot of hype about how tough the BE is this year.  (and it will be)

I'm unconvinced that this team is substantially different than last year's team and think some things will need to break right to finish in the top four in the conference.  Even getting a 1-4 seed doesn't guarantee playing the second weekend of the tournament.  As a result, S16 is more of a stretch goal, IMO.

[Big Papi]

The key for seeding in the tourny will be the preconference schedule.  The Big East will have to win more than its fair share against the Big 10, ACC, Pac 10 and SEC if we want to be viewed as the number one conference in the land.  If the Big East can dominate in November and December, not only will the teams in the Big East get higher seedings in the tourny but we will get 9 teams in the tourny as well.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My personal opinion is that the class of the Big East this year will be Louisville and UConn.  Marquette will fall in the second tier of schools with the potential of finishing anywhere from third through seventh in the Big East.

Last year's NCAA seeds:  GTown (2), UL (3), UConn (4), Pitt (4), ND (5), MU (6), etc...

If they finish third or fourth in the BE, that probably means a four seed in the tournament, especially since there will be a lot of hype about how tough the BE is this year.  (and it will be)

I'm unconvinced that this team is substantially different than last year's team and think some things will need to break right to finish in the top four in the conference.  Even getting a 1-4 seed doesn't guarantee playing the second weekend of the tournament.  As a result, S16 is more of a stretch goal, IMO.

Totally agree on UL and UCONN.  UL has 4 starters back plus what some people are saying is the #1 recruit in the country coming in.  They are going to be a load.  UCONN has tremendous size and will be very good.  MU will be in the next tier.

[77ncaachamps]

A feat shared by many programs and coaches like Bobby Knight at IU, Jim Valvano at NC State, Denny Crum at Louisville, etc, etc.

Such an illustrious bunch...but you can't put Crean in that group. It's sacrilege.

They've won titles.

AND they've stayed with their championship winning school longer than Crean did with MU.

[Marquette84]

But now, thanks to this thread, in a few days MUScoop will be one of the top results for that search.

And it shall be so.  This thread is currently the #1 result for a google search for Crean and Botch.

[Marquette84]

a feat caused by so numerous woeful recruiting classes and becuse players and coaches were fleeing the program and not just players looking for playing time elsewhere.  His inability to recruit to Mu sans two good classes and his boorish personality have been replaced by a true recruiter, fans will quickly see that Buzz's first two classes are eaqual to anything Crean compiled and he is the complete 180 personality wise of our former coach.  If Crean was half as good as he sold himself tobe his numbers and accomplishments would be alot more impressive.  But you see when you are selling yourself 24/7 for a better opportunity you tend to overhype your results and attempt to make yourself the face of the program.  Good riddance your slow painful demise at IU will be enjoyed.

I think you're a bit harsh on Crean.  No coach in a similar situation would have been able to sustain recruting at MU post 2003.  Schools like MU almost always lost successful coaches.  We were equivalent to Xavier, Butler, etc.  There were  nearly unanimous expectations that Crean would be gone after the 2003 season.  No quality recruit gave MU the time of day because the weren't sure who the coach would be.

IMO it took two more seasons for recruits to gain any trust that Crean wasn't an immedeate departure threat.

BTW, if Buzz' coaching is anywhere near his recruiting, we will have a terrible recruiting year for 2010-11.  Three years of success, and there is no chance that quality recruit will expect Buzz to last at MU another season.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Such an illustrious bunch...but you can't put Crean in that group. It's sacrilege.

They've won titles.

AND they've stayed with their championship winning school longer than Crean did with MU.

Not all of them....the fact that some of the champions didn't make it the following year to me lends even more slack for the fact we didn't make it.  If a champion can't make it back the next year, then certainly a Final Four team is going to miss it from time to time.

If I find the entire list you will see many that weren't champions but still had strong coaches.


Prediction...Crean will make it back to the Final Four again....within the next 8 years would be my guess.  He's going to have a helluva a hole to dig out of first.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you're a bit harsh on Crean.  No coach in a similar situation would have been able to sustain recruting at MU post 2003.  Schools like MU almost always lost successful coaches.  We were equivalent to Xavier, Butler, etc.  There were  nearly unanimous expectations that Crean would be gone after the 2003 season.  No quality recruit gave MU the time of day because the weren't sure who the coach would be.

IMO it took two more seasons for recruits to gain any trust that Crean wasn't an immedeate departure threat.

BTW, if Buzz' coaching is anywhere near his recruiting, we will have a terrible recruiting year for 2010-11.  Three years of success, and there is no chance that quality recruit will expect Buzz to last at MU another season.   

Very well said...in fact, if he does what Crean did and take us to multiple NCAA bids, a Texas opening will come up and many will wonder if he's leaving.  Then those that are blowing him today will call him Satan and the likes...won't that be fun.

Coaches leave, it's part of the deal....they even leave Kansas, they even leave UCLA, they even leave Kentucky.  That's the way it is.


PS  I'll gladly blow Buzz as well, but if he leaves I'm not going to call him Benedict Arnold or all the other goofiness that goes on here.  9 years is a ton.  I'd be thrilled if Buzz gave us 9 years (because it means he did a good job) but I don't expect it in today's day and age at a school like MU.

[Daniel]

We all hate when good coaches leave, but that is part of the game.  I am hopeing Buzz does great at MU and wants to give it a long shot.  But he's only 35.  I don't think he's staying here 25 or 30 years!  But then, who knows.  It happens.  Could just be the right place.

But . . . in the meantime, I am hoping to enjoy the ride, and I hope it's a great and long one.

[pbiflyer]

Very well said...in fact, if he does what Crean did and take us to multiple NCAA bids, a Texas opening will come up and many will wonder if he's leaving.  Then those that are blowing him today will call him Satan and the likes...won't that be fun.

Coaches leave, it's part of the deal....they even leave Kansas, they even leave UCLA, they even leave Kentucky.  That's the way it is.

But they don't leave a voice message telling their current employer that they have left.
Get it through your head Chico, it isn't that he left. Most of us are happy he left, since we have discovered that he truly felt he took Marquette as far as he could. No it is just the way that he did it. And he didn't even man up about making a mistake, instead throwing Joani under the bus, saying it was all because she had the flu. He is no better than HGH biy Clemens, saying the drugs were for his wife.
Man up, Tommy, and admit YOU made a mistake in the way you handled it, instead of blaming everyone else.

If Buzz succeeds and goes to greener pastures, great for him. Just don't do it in the middle of the night, ala Irsay.

[RedWebster]

For the most part, people don't blame Crean for leaving. They are angry and upset with themselves for pretending to like such a douche bag all this time -- and I include the players in that assessment. Nobody with even an ounce of judgement in people could embrace that horse's ass.

If Buzz leaves after a few years, fare thee well. At least we'll never find him in a tanning salon or having his hair styled for $100 a pop.

Crean will not make a Final Four in 8 years. With any luck, he'll fall flat on his face. My prediction...he'll be at Indiana for about 10 years and peak with a Sweet 16 if he's lucky.

One thing is for sure...Crean is taking notes on what is going on now and he'll repeat it (and embellish it) over and over and over again until guys like Jay Bilas start believing it. That way, when he does get his egotistical ass fired, the media will back him.

[detroitwarrior]

I am going to be both naive ( in this modern sports world) and optimistic that Buzz stays at Marquette for a very long time and reestablishes a tradtion of staying at a school a long time similar to Dean Smith at UNC rather than wanting his name to be mentioned at every new coaching job. I know we cannot compare MU to UNC but perhaps , for a change, Buzz will surprise everyone and if he is successful, resist the lure of other offers and stay with the school that gave him a great opportunity.
Of course, if he is not successful, I reserve the right to be a hypocrite and call for his head

[77ncaachamps]

I am going to be both naive ( in this modern sports world) and optimistic that Buzz stays at Marquette for a very long time and reestablishes a tradtion of staying at a school a long time similar to Dean Smith at UNC rather than wanting his name to be mentioned at every new coaching job. I know we cannot compare MU to UNC but perhaps , for a change, Buzz will surprise everyone and if he is successful, resist the lure of other offers and stay with the school that gave him a great opportunity.
Of course, if he is not successful, I reserve the right to be a hypocrite and call for his head

Consider it DULY NOTED.

[rocky_warrior]

And it shall be so.  This thread is currently the #1 result for a google search for Crean and Botch.

Let it be known...what you post here *will* show up in google searches.  Heck, search for botch and Stanford and we're the #3 hit.  Botch and Marquette is #1 too.

I guess we've got a new slogan: Post on MUScoop, get famous on Google.

(note to self: search for "get famous on google" in a few days).

Anyhow, back to regularly scheduled programming....is Crean still at IU?  I didn't even know they had a basketball program anymore.  Thought that died off months ago...you learn something new every day.

[The Lens]

We lost our two best players and then the best remaining got hurt the next year.  We would have made it had it not been for that injury.  Crean was just starting to establish himself and hadn't made the recruiting inroads he had later on while here so the depth hadn't been built up yet.  I don't see how anyone can think that this was a huge failure of his coaching.  It's more of CHS (crean hatred syndrome).

So...he could make in roads for a Final 4 team but two years later he loses one player to injury and he gets embarrassed at home by Western Mich in the NIT? How does he not have depth in years 5 and 6...oh yeah, I remember, he was running off players and assistants left and right.

It's more of CIS (Crean Infatuation Syndrome).

Move on, the dude left you and he ain't coming back.

[jmayer1]

But they don't leave a voice message telling their current employer that they have left.
Get it through your head Chico, it isn't that he left. Most of us are happy he left, since we have discovered that he truly felt he took Marquette as far as he could. No it is just the way that he did it. And he didn't even man up about making a mistake, instead throwing Joani under the bus, saying it was all because she had the flu. He is no better than HGH biy Clemens, saying the drugs were for his wife.
Man up, Tommy, and admit YOU made a mistake in the way you handled it, instead of blaming everyone else.

If Buzz succeeds and goes to greener pastures, great for him. Just don't do it in the middle of the night, ala Irsay.

+1

I was a big Crean guy while he was here and still think he did many great things for the program, but the way he left was cowardly.

[nola03]

The self righteousness that remains with many MU fans in these forums over Crean's departure hits two rare emotions at once: amusing and slightly pathetic.

[ErickJD08]

First, about the thread, I think our team has the ability to make a run at the tourney.  I would agree with many others here that UL will be the top team to beat.  As we all know, the KEY in the Big East is holding home court and scrapping in some road wins.  A sweep of our home schedule is more than doable.  We are going to need some road wins.  I think our best chance of winning a big game is Notre Dame.  We should have beat them last year (if Blacklege knew who to catch) and they will be beatable this year.  I think Marquette will be a top tier team in the Big East and should get a good seed.  But as we all know anything can happen in the Big Dance.

As to Crean, I am holding my position which is 6 years max.  I think Indiana will struggle alot in a well developing Big 10 (MSU and WI always solid, OSU is a ?, and IL and MN are on rise).  I am a Notre Dame football fan and I know that schools and fans from winning programs put a ton of pressure on the coach to succeed and there are no excuses.  I think in year three he will on the hot seat.  Can you imagine Crean on the sidelines in a close game when he knows his job is on the line?  I can't wait for the "It's UIPUI... It's UIPUI"

[wampum77]

Speaking of pathetic (not amusing).  Player Development:  It has been said that one of the main reasons OB left MU was because he felt coach "ME" had little to offer him in terms of development.  (If correct, it seems pretty visionary to me.) I'm not saying OB's decision to leave was correct, but I sure could understand that thinking.  Coaching:  The last five minutes of the Stanford game were abysmal inspite of coach "ME" 's 6 inch thick play book, motivational speakers, karate classes, high altitude work outs, etc.  To me this was signature Tommy Tan.

Thanks for the reassurance that Tommy isn't coming back.

[ChicosBailBonds]

But they don't leave a voice message telling their current employer that they have left.
Get it through your head Chico, it isn't that he left. Most of us are happy he left, since we have discovered that he truly felt he took Marquette as far as he could. No it is just the way that he did it. And he didn't even man up about making a mistake, instead throwing Joani under the bus, saying it was all because she had the flu. He is no better than HGH biy Clemens, saying the drugs were for his wife.
Man up, Tommy, and admit YOU made a mistake in the way you handled it, instead of blaming everyone else.

If Buzz succeeds and goes to greener pastures, great for him. Just don't do it in the middle of the night, ala Irsay.

I don't think there's anyway any coach leaves that some people don't get all jilted up like their prom date left them.

Just my opinion.  Fans are consumed with their team and they can't understand why a coach would leave a place they love more than anything.  By the way, I believe Crean has said on multiple occasions that the way he informed folks wasn't the best way of doing things, plenty of interviews on it.   It's over, it's been months now and people are still hung up on this. 

Coaches come and coaches go, more so at a place like MU.