CNNSI's Luke Winn's predictions. "Williams would have to seriously botch..."

[MR.HAYWARD]

My personal take on thsi silly string that has not reched 75 posts?.....

I think Pakuni and the other Crean defenders need to take a chill pill.   Crean leaving was bound to cause alot of ill will, the way he left caused even more ill will,  his acceptance speech which i might add I nailed dead on even before he gave it caused even more ill will,  his contacting Mu commitments and attempting to lure them to IU created even more ill will. 

Pakuni and others argumnets are basically correct but the way he left on top of just the fact that he did leave will and has casued so much rentment that the man will be hated forever reagrdless of what he ever did or did not accomplish. 

Go to the Kansas boards and take up the defnse of Roy williams there, because you can make the very same arguments and see how far that gets you.  other examples can be given.  crean will be and should be forever hated at MU.  DID he accomplish some things at MU sure, but Mu is a big time basketball prgram and he did not do anything so over the top that his prescense will be so greatly missed.  HAd he lost to HC in the first round of 2003 is arguable that he would have been run out of town before he had a chance to leave.  MU made Crean,  Crean and others seem to have forgotten that.  3 nccas' and 2 nit's, 5 double digit losing seasons, 0 conference titles, 1 ncAA win and 1 good recruitng class in the last 5 years but keep on defending the guy.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

My personal take on thsi silly string that has not reched 75 posts?.....

I think Pakuni and the other Crean defenders need to take a chill pill.   Crean leaving was bound to cause alot of ill will, the way he left caused even more ill will,  his acceptance speech which i might add I nailed dead on even before he gave it caused even more ill will,  his contacting Mu commitments and attempting to lure them to IU created even more ill will. 

Pakuni and others argumnets are basically correct but the way he left on top of just the fact that he did leave will and has casued so much rentment that the man will be hated forever reagrdless of what he ever did or did not accomplish. 

Go to the Kansas boards and take up the defnse of Roy williams there, because you can make the very same arguments and see how far that gets you.  other examples can be given.  crean will be and should be forever hated at MU.  DID he accomplish some things at MU sure, but Mu is a big time basketball prgram and he did not do anything so over the top that his prescense will be so greatly missed.  HAd he lost to HC in the first round of 2003 is arguable that he would have been run out of town before he had a chance to leave.  MU made Crean,  Crean and others seem to have forgotten that.  3 nccas' and 2 nit's, 5 double digit losing seasons, 0 conference titles, 1 ncAA win and 1 good recruitng class in the last 5 years but keep on defending the guy.

I think it's really a matter of perspective. I also think you have to take emotions (love and hate) out of it.

I mean, you can look at it this way:

"MU made Crean,  Crean and others seem to have forgotten that.  3 nccas' and 2 nit's, 5 double digit losing seasons, 0 conference titles, 1 ncAA win and 1 good recruitng class in the last 5 years but keep on defending the guy. " - Hayward

Or, you can look at it this way:

Crean (whether you like him or not) is the second best coach in MU's history. You can argue about KO, or some guy from the 50's but Crean is definitely in the conversation for #2, which says a lot given what he inherited. He didn't inherit a complete dog, but it certainly was worse off than he left it.

If a coach comes in, spends 9 years, and leaves the program better than he found it... I'm happy. If Buzz can accomplish the same, I'll be thrilled. 

Simple as that. Obviously there is a ton of minutia and details that people can love/hate... but the program is better now than when he got it. I think that says a lot given that Crean was a major force in that effort.

[rocky_warrior]

If you were camping and a pack of blood thirsty yettis attacked you...

Did someone say Yeti?

[ChicosBailBonds]

What the heck is a Crean defender?  You mean someone that enjoyed the 2nd best tenure in MU history? 

Yeah, there are a lot of people that enjoyed the Final Four, going from a non NIT team to a perennial power, graduating players at nearly 100%, no NCAA violations, etc, etc.  The guy was an ahole at times but it was a great ride.  Forgive us for enjoying that run and not being a completely bitter person like you are that has to attack the previous coach at every turn. 

You're entitle to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

[Coach Norman Dale]

You're entitle[d] to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

I am TOTALLY going to steal this line for use in other circumstances.  Thanks, CBB!!! 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am TOTALLY going to steal this line for use in other circumstances.  Thanks, CBB!!! 

Not my line, it's been around for a long time in the lawyering world....I guess I deal with lawyers too much so it rubs off from time to time.   

[Pakuni]

You're entitle to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

And threrein lies the rub.
Hate Crean all you want, if you wish. Believe he's the scummiest scum who ever scummed if it makes you feel better about his departure.
But enough with the revisionist history about him being a terrible coach and recruiter who somehow held Marquette back from its Duke-like potential. Tom Crean's tenure at Marquette was a highly successful one. Perfect? No. But much better than most in his circumstances.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Go to the Kansas boards and take up the defnse of Roy williams there, because you can make the very same arguments and see how far that gets you.  other examples can be given.  crean will be and should be forever hated at MU.  DID he accomplish some things at MU sure, but Mu is a big time basketball prgram and he did not do anything so over the top that his prescense will be so greatly missed.  HAd he lost to HC in the first round of 2003 is arguable that he would have been run out of town before he had a chance to leave.  MU made Crean,  Crean and others seem to have forgotten that.  3 nccas' and 2 nit's, 5 double digit losing seasons, 0 conference titles, 1 ncAA win and 1 good recruitng class in the last 5 years but keep on defending the guy.

If that is truly your belief, then it begs the question why no one else did it other then some guy named McGuire.  It begs the question why it took 30 years.  It begs the question if we were a big time program, why our only conference we could get into at first was the MCC (the current Horizon), then the Great Midwest, then CUSA.   

The correct answer is MU was once a big time program, but for over a decade it was not.  It had sunk to such a despair that we were being ROUTED by Iona, beating Stetson as our only road win, losing to Loyola at home and having multiple seasons with 10 or 11 wins.  We were awful.  Thankfully some folks took notice, hired some good coaches like KO, Deane and Crean to bring us back.  All the credit should not go to Tom Crean...it was a process of building it back slowly but methodically...a process that took a decade or more.  But to suggest that "crean will be and should be forever hated at MU" may be one of the silliest and childish things I have ever read, and that's saying something. 

One can only assume that you say these things just to say them and get attention because it's hard to fathom a rational person saying "crean will be and should be forever hated at MU".  That's the only diagnosis I can come up with.

In essence what you've done is say Crean was so bad at everything he did (thus the hate you have), that anyone should be able to EXCEED his accomplishments.  Yet, since only one coach in MU history has done that, you've set the bar in a tough spot for everyone else. 

I'd add that Crean's success here makes Buzz's job EASIER because Crean helped put MU back on the map, something you simply continue to ignore.  Buzz was given a gift wrapped top 15 team in a major conference with great facilities, working on a 3 season NCAA streak...something Crean did not inherit, but rather built and left for Buzz.

[detroitwarrior]

I was at MU for Hank Raymonds and Majerus and after I left pretty much just watched the occasional game on tv and being in Michigan remember watching the Sweet 16 run of Kevin O'Neill's and cursing him when he left for Tennessee, mainly because he had promised Tony Miller he would be at MU for his whole tenure. After Crean was hired, living here in Michigan, I began to watch more as games became more frequent on tv . I thank him for renewing pride in Marquette basketball , for giving me an awesome 2003 Final Four run and for having his teams play hard and running a clean program. While not privy to the inside scoop of all that surrounded his tenure, I fault him for having his teams seem tight in NCAA tournament play ( the exception being the 2003 run) which really hit home for me when we lost to MSU two years ago ( my best friend's alma mater and the loss of a Ruth Chris dinner),the manner in which he left and the fact that I think that he seemed a little bit too much of a "shuck and jiver". However, while at MU, he was our shuck and jiver and it is only natural that the faults which many complain of now were tolerated because during his tenure, overall, we were happy with the results and the way the program was headed. Could more have been achieved while he was here? Perhaps. However, even those who profess to hate him have to acknowledge that he did a lot of good for the program when all is said and done and I am not one to count myself in the pro-Crean category.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I was at MU for Hank Raymonds and Majerus and after I left pretty much just watched the occasional game on tv and being in Michigan remember watching the Sweet 16 run of Kevin O'Neill's and cursing him when he left for Tennessee, mainly because he had promised Tony Miller he would be at MU for his whole tenure. After Crean was hired, living here in Michigan, I began to watch more as games became more frequent on tv . I thank him for renewing pride in Marquette basketball , for giving me an awesome 2003 Final Four run and for having his teams play hard and running a clean program. While not privy to the inside scoop of all that surrounded his tenure, I fault him for having his teams seem tight in NCAA tournament play ( the exception being the 2003 run) which really hit home for me when we lost to MSU two years ago ( my best friend's alma mater and the loss of a Ruth Chris dinner),the manner in which he left and the fact that I think that he seemed a little bit too much of a "shuck and jiver". However, while at MU, he was our shuck and jiver and it is only natural that the faults which many complain of now were tolerated because during his tenure, overall, we were happy with the results and the way the program was headed. Could more have been achieved while he was here? Perhaps. However, even those who profess to hate him have to acknowledge that he did a lot of good for the program when all is said and done and I am not one to count myself in the pro-Crean category.

Those that hate him have to ask themselves the question of what he left behind to the new coach....a top 15 team, a team going for it's 4th straight NCAA appearance, a team with 3 All Big East players and a 4th that will likely make it this year, fantastic facilities, top conference, highest attendance average in MU history.....he sure left the next coach a really crappy situation.  LOL 

[detroitwarrior]

Those that hate him have to ask themselves the question of what he left behind to the new coach....a top 15 team, a team going for it's 4th straight NCAA appearance, a team with 3 All Big East players and a 4th that will likely make it this year, fantastic facilities, top conference, highest attendance average in MU history.....he sure left the next coach a really crappy situation.  LOL

Agreed Chicos....in addition, the fact that many are still venting the pros and cons of Crean four months after his departure indicates that he must also be given credit for bringing some passion back to the program and raising expectations ( both good things). And again, I am not one who was enamored with him at all.

[mviale]

+1 detroit warrior.  I appreciate the Wade year and the last 3 years. However, not a pro-crean fan as I also think his coaching ceiling was reached.  He will be fine at Indiana, but we are not happy with NCAA 1st round exits.