Indiana is falling appart

[nyg]

Unless he mixes up his recruits with some junior college players, by 2011 he could have seven seniors and have to reload again. 

[79Warrior]

From Tom Creans seat, this is an outstanding situation. Team is in turmoil, expectations are low and coming off firing a coach mid season. The best CEO's love this position. Take over when the situation is worst and you have no where to go but up.
This is the perfect time for Crean to rebuild. Nobody has any expectations for next season. TC can get his guys in over the next few years and restore IU tradition.

You can laugh all you want as IU may struggle next year, but he will get it done. If TC puts out a credible product on the floor next year he will be a hero in the state. There is tremendous upside for him at IU. The next couple of years may be rough, but that is baked into the equation. TC will get it done at IU, make no mistake about it. He is a great hire for them.

[Tugg Speedman]

When does an elite program stop being an elite program? Crean is in danger of this happening to IU. 

Have you seen his roster for next year?  He has 8 players and one is a walk-on.  Only three returning players from this year's team and none of them were any good.

Let's be real, he's looking at 5 and 22 next year.  He will finish 11th in the Big Ten.  Then he will be hit with sanctions, loss of more scholarships and Nick Williams will transfer.

IU is in mortal danger of becoming a former elite program.  In three years, they will be viewed as just another big ten basketball program, interchangeable with Purdue, Michigan and Illinois.

[79Warrior]

When does an elite program stop being an elite program? Crean is in danger of this happening to IU. 

Have you seen his roster for next year?  He has 8 players and one is a walk-on.  Only three returning players from this year's team and none of them were any good.

Let's be real, he's looking at 5 and 22 next year.  He will finish 11th in the Big Ten.  Then he will be hit with sanctions, loss of more scholarships and Nick Williams will transfer.

IU is in mortal danger of becoming a former elite program.  In three years, they will be viewed as just another big ten basketball program, interchangeable with Purdue, Michigan and Illinois.

Next year is a write off, everyone knows that. NCAA sanctions are unlikey, TC did his homework on that. Three years from now IU will be very competitive. People here should be more concerned with Buzz that TC.

[warthog-driver]

"Before you build a team, you need to develop a family," Crean said in a statement Friday.

He said the same crap at MU. I guess that makes him the absentee father who ran away with the neighborhood tramp.

Crean is just so full of bullcrap

[warthog-driver]

The best CEO's love this position.

Problem is, TC is not CEO or General Officer material. He's a smooth talking sales guy, who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. His moral compass is off so he lacks scruples and courage. He's a starched white shirt removed from his white trash background and he knows that - deep down he knows he really doesn't belong.

[MUinOH]

The best CEO's love this position.

Problem is, TC is not CEO or General Officer material. He's a smooth talking sales guy, who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. His moral compass is off so he lacks scruples and courage. He's a starched white shirt removed from his white trash background and he knows that - deep down he knows he really doesn't belong.

Wow.  His life story would've made a great movie of the week!   

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I am in full agreement with this board on the poor way Crean left the school.  I was at times frustrated with him as the coach -- and sometimes questioned whether it was time for MU to move in another direction.  I think it was surprising that Indiana was the school where he landed, but truthfully there are many other programs that Crean could have gone to over the next few years that would have made me angrier (i.e. Illinois, OK State or I would even venture Mich State).

I think this board has become a jaded, whine session about Tom Crean.    Truthfully, despite Crean's weak points (beating a zone, developing big men and in game coaching), he is a capable steward of a Division One basketball program. 

Further, he controls nothing about the future of this program -- and in my eyes will soon be a memory.  I think he has shot at doing well at Indiana -- and frankly I won't be there to laugh if he fails or cheer if he succeeds -- because I care about MU Basketball -- not Tom Crean.

[RawdogDX]

Yes he is a smooth talking sales men.  And what does he have to sell?  A ton of PT right from the start at Indiana.  Does anyone think this will be hard for him?   Does anyone think that he won't have a top 20 class next year?  I'm guessing his 2009 class will end up bing top 10 but, for sure it will be in the top 20.

[RawdogDX]

If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'll eat my hat!   

well you might want to get some A1 for that because his style of play will run slow big 11 teams off the court. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Yes he is a smooth talking sales men.  And what does he have to sell?  A ton of PT right from the start at Indiana.  Does anyone think this will be hard for him?   Does anyone think that he won't have a top 20 class next year?  I'm guessing his 2009 class will end up bing top 10 but, for sure it will be in the top 20.

Next year is a write off, everyone knows that. NCAA sanctions are unlikey, TC did his homework on that. Three years from now IU will be very competitive. People here should be more concerned with Buzz that TC.

Competitive in three years?  Top 20 class next year.  Is this what his ceiling is?  Is this Crean's goal?

No!  Crean thinks he going to be with UCLA. UNC and Duke as a truly elite program.  If all he accomplishes in Bloomington is a top 20 recruiting class and competitive in the Big Ten, he was an idiot for leaving.  He had that now.  So, he'll spend years to get to where he was on March 31, 2008 and progress no further.

No, Crean thinks he will consistently have top 5 recruiting classes and reguarly make the final four (see Howland at UCLA, three straight years).  That's what Crean thinks he can do at IU.

Why not do it at MU?  Because he could never get over the hump to a top 5 recruiting class.  Problem is the collaspe of next year's team is going to set him way back in this goal, if not permanently.

You think Jamil Wilson is going to IU next year?  Why on earth would he go and lose?  A Wilson wants to step into a program that will be ranked from day 1.  Not "I'll lose my freshman year while coach goes and find other players."

[mviale]

I heard that Holman freaked out after seeing his role reduced to a Marquette Big Man under Crean.

[RawdogDX]

you know, i was just thinking "Three threads about this isn't enough, i hope someone starts a fourth." 

[RawdogDX]

Competitive in three years?  Top 20 class next year.  Is this what his ceiling is?  Is this Crean's goal?

No!  Crean thinks he going to be with UCLA. UNC and Duke as a truly elite program.  If all he accomplishes in Bloomington is a top 20 recruiting class and competitive in the Big Ten, he was an idiot for leaving.  He had that now.  So, he'll spend years to get to where he was on March 31, 2008 and progress no further.

No, Crean thinks he will consistently have top 5 recruiting classes and reguarly make the final four (see Howland at UCLA, three straight years).  That's what Crean thinks he can do at IU.

Why not do it at MU?  Because he could never get over the hump to a top 5 recruiting class.  Problem is the collaspe of next year's team is going to set him way back in this goal, if not permanently.

You think Jamil Wilson is going to IU next year?  Why on earth would he go and lose?  A Wilson wants to step into a program that will be ranked from day 1.  Not "I'll lose my freshman year while coach goes and find other players."

Let me get this right, i talk about what i think will happen with his recruiting next year and your response is: Is that his ceiling?
No, ... no.  ??? I said that is what is going to happen next year.  How the hell did you get, 'this is what his ceiling is.'  His ceiling is all those goals you stated.  As I said in another thread today, i think he'll be competing for the big 11 champ consistently by 2010 and I think that will lead to success that he couldn't reach here because he isn't good enough to take a program to the level of name recognition he now has.  He didn't do it at mu because to do that at a non-top 7 program is a much harder task, and not one that can be achieved by a coach who is only above average. 

Recruiting is selling.  Here he was selling pt at mu, now he is selling pt at Indiana, he'll be able to get better players in a weaker league.  If a coach who had been finishing 2nd-4th in the pac-10 took the indiana job we'd all say: "it's only a matter of time."
We know crean and know he's not amazing but that doesn't mean that he's not good.  You honestly think crean, who turned a bad mu team into a perennial big east conender can't do the same thing at indiana playing against, northwestern, IL, MN, MI, Purdue, ect?

[Tugg Speedman]

And I'm saying that Crean might have been permanently damaged by how bad next year's team will be.

But we are saying the same thing.  In 2010 when IU is ranked 18 and make the sweet sixteen, IU fans will be estatic.  In 2013 when they are ranked 17 and lose in the second round, IU will fire him.

By 2013, IU fans expect to be pre-season top 5 and make the final 4, in 2014 they have to do the same.

I don't think he can get to that level.  And when they cannot, they are a former elite team (like MU is now).  They will be Michigan or Illinois.  That is fine for most, but they will not be Duke, UNC or UCLA.  IU will not make this group and they have to come to terms that they are not UNC.  Think about how hard it was for MU fans in the 1980s, that is what IU are going to experience in the next 5 to 8 years.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Rawdog, what do you think about Indiana?

[RawdogDX]

haha, as a state?  It's full of crazy tweakers, the girls are hot and kinky (trust me on this) but they are looking for guys who wear wife beaters, tons of product, and gold chains to the bar.  Any wisco kid who is afraid of IL drivers has no idea what goes on there.  You get passed going 95 on 65 on the way to indy, and it's only two lanes and they will ride your ass to get you out of the way.  The small town townie bars are full of racists looking for fights...

at least that has been my experiences, that said i only hang out in the 'good' parts of indiana.

[muhoosier260]

i only hang out in the 'good' parts of indiana.

where might that be?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I rely on Mickey Kantor for his assessment on Indiana.

[farmdaddy]

All I could do is laugh at Crean when ESPN covered the story.  I love it

[mug644]

What sparked this reaction from a kid that was transferring?  Obviously, Tom is not responsible for IU's current situation.  So he must have been pushing his buttons or "building a family".

My guess is that Crean laid out the reality of transferring; that is, a school isn't just going to let someone drop out and be gone. Maybe the guy refused to finish the semester and Crean threatened to not allow the transfer. It's my understanding that if someone transfers without satisfactorily completing the semester, it counts against the school graduation rate and, ultimately, can impact the number of scholarship. With possible sanctions coming down the pipeline, it is no surprise that Crean might not let someone off the hook so easily.

[Murffieus]

Crean made an emotional decision and left in a huff-----something in the Athletic Dept structure changes really upset him------otherwise why would he leave a team that will be competitive for the BE title next year to go into this bucket of worms.

He's got nothing but headaches facing him for next 2 years or more!

[MUPig]

you know, i was just thinking "Three threads about this isn't enough, i hope someone starts a fourth." 

+1

[THEGYMBAR]

I would never underestimate a program with IU's history. UCLA had up and downs post Wooden and are one of the top five programs in the country. Programs with history, which Illinois or Michigan do not have, always can rebuild. While I hope TC is not the guy who takes IU back to elite I do not believe they are done for life.

IU is probably prepared to go backwards for a couple of years to rebuild. Like TC or not building MU up is far tougher than rebuilding IU. Another major advantage is playing in Big Ten. If I was a coach I would take my chances rebuilding there than the BE.

[Nukem2]

Will be interesting to see what kind of NC schedule Crean has at IU the next two years with a lot of 300+ RPIs...?  although I do believe they are going to Maui in November which could be a real problem for IU...?