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Author Topic: Indiana is falling appart  (Read 16416 times)

RawdogDX

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Indiana is falling appart
« on: May 02, 2008, 12:15:30 PM »
Potted pants being flung, guess that's what happens when Crean has a ture 5 on his team.  haHAAA... i kill me:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3377706

half way through there is a mention that this could potentially cost them two more scholarships.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2008, 12:20:24 PM »
The Big Ten is going to be a monster conference again next year.   ::)  4 teams again, 5 if they are lucky going to the dance.


IU returns about 10 points per game scoring....WOW!!   :o
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 12:25:32 PM by ChicosBailBonds »

Pardner

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2008, 12:47:32 PM »
It is now official, Bassett, Ellis, Thomas and Holman all gone, per the TC/Katz PR machine.    "Before you build a team, you need to develop a family," Crean said in a statement Friday.   TC was a right hire for IU's mess...but with scholie restrictions coming, you have to wonder if he extracted enough money and years to rebuild.  Northwestern wil beat them twice next year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3378521

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2008, 01:02:05 PM »
It is now official, Bassett, Ellis, Thomas and Holman all gone, per the TC/Katz PR machine.    "Before you build a team, you need to develop a family," Crean said in a statement Friday.   TC was a right hire for IU's mess...but with scholie restrictions coming, you have to wonder if he extracted enough money and years to rebuild.  Northwestern wil beat them twice next year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=3378521

I think the NCAA goes light on them, especially after this.  They will feel they've been "punished enough" is my guess.

4everwarriors

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2008, 01:05:34 PM »
Couldn't happen to a nicer prick.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

jficke13

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2008, 01:23:55 PM »
Make and example of them

4everwarriors

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2008, 01:29:40 PM »
He probably enjoys running them off. Lots of experience with that plus it makes his resurrection job look that much better.
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

muarmy81

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2008, 01:31:29 PM »
Just reading that article makes you depressed to be a Hoosier fan, it also makes you think why anyone would want to leave their old team which was ranked in the top 20 and would have their top 4 scorers back next year...I mean all joking aside, who thinks that is a smart career move?  That's like Pitino leaving Louisville to go to the NBA...oh wait.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2008, 01:46:32 PM »
Make and example of them

Name the last MAJOR program that was made an example of?  Just doesn't happen.  If this was Southwest Texas State, yeah they would go on 5 years probation.  My guess is IU gets a slap on the hand.

They'll win 10 games next year

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2008, 01:52:13 PM »
Just reading that article makes you depressed to be a Hoosier fan, it also makes you think why anyone would want to leave their old team which was ranked in the top 20 and would have their top 4 scorers back next year...I mean all joking aside, who thinks that is a smart career move?  That's like Pitino leaving Louisville to go to the NBA...oh wait.

You have to look at it 5 or 10 years from now, not today.  In one sense, will IU ever be this bad again?  Probably not.  The expectations are in the basement, he'll run a clean program (which IU fans are craving for, it's part of their DNA), and the million raise won't hurt either.

Short term, yeah it's going to be a head scratcher.  Long term, it will likely end up being a smart career move.

NYWarrior

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2008, 01:54:50 PM »
Name the last MAJOR program that was made an example of? 

Kentucky

warthogdriver

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2008, 01:58:59 PM »
SMU

NYWarrior

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2008, 02:10:33 PM »
SMU

Football is a different animal than hoops......consider big NCAA penalties at:  Oklahoma, Miami, Florida, Colorado, Texas A&M, et al.

In hoops, the NCAA shows far more discretion (er, a blind eye)

Other than Kentucky getting clobbered by the NCAA during the Sutton era, its difficult to find a truly notable hoops program that was hammered by the NCAA enforcement folks
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 02:12:29 PM by NYWarrior »

muarmy81

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2008, 02:16:39 PM »
the million raise won't hurt either.

Short term, yeah it's going to be a head scratcher.  Long term, it will likely end up being a smart career move.

I understand the money and the low expectations but long term, looking at his ability as a pure coach I don't think the chances are high that this is a smart move.  Risky?  Yes.  Smart?  Maybe, with high risk comes high reward...

Daniel

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2008, 02:27:16 PM »
I don't think TC will be too upset about all this.  He has plenty of scholies to hand out, and can immediately put his stamp on the program and mold it his way now.  If he has a good year next year, then he is a hero.  This really is not bad for TC. 

RawdogDX

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2008, 02:29:48 PM »
I understand the money and the low expectations but long term, looking at his ability as a pure coach I don't think the chances are high that this is a smart move.  Risky?  Yes.  Smart?  Maybe, with high risk comes high reward...

What is risky about this for him?  
Worst case senario:
With the team in shambles the AD will not expect results for the next three years.  (fans will want it earlier) If they are still bad after three he might get fired and then end up getting a job two weeks later coaching a bottom tear program in a major conference and he'll have a chance to try and build it up to an MU level.  Oh, the horrors

But that isn't going to happen, he's going to be able to spend all of 08 telling every 09 kid he meets that they will have significant playing time at Indiana as a freshman.  He was able to bring in the big three here using that same mantra, he'll have better results there.  He'll be able to get better players than he did here in a weeker conference.  By 2010 his team will be competeing for the Big 11 title.  That will translate to even better players and teams that will contend for the national title, something he couldn't do here because he isn't that good, but he can in Indiana.

100% smart move in the long run (and by that i mean 3 years from now)

Pardner

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2008, 02:41:14 PM »
I think the NCAA goes light on them, especially after this.  They will feel they've been "punished enough" is my guess.
Good point...this is part of the pr move to show the NCAA that IU is "clamping" down on academics in advance of the hearing...while TC extends his honeymoon and rids himself of players he never wanted.  Miles Brand will be hard pressed to clamp down on IU, but in this case (a hire with a shady history, lack of oversight on that hire with continued violations, and the Huggins poor academic performance), the school should be penalized.  The facade of their self-imposed recruiting penalty is just further proof the AD has blame in this mess--despite his lame claims that he had nothing to do with Sampson's hire.  If IU gets off without a major penalty, the NCAA is just a paper tiger. 

bilsu

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2008, 02:55:41 PM »
I think this makes it easier for the NCAA to appear to clamp down on IU. They could ban Indiana from NCAA tournament for two years. They are not going to make the tournament the next two years anyways, so the only real punishment is the perception that may hurt recruiting.

downtown85

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2008, 03:04:30 PM »
You have to look at it 5 or 10 years from now, not today.  In one sense, will IU ever be this bad again?  Probably not.  The expectations are in the basement, he'll run a clean program (which IU fans are craving for, it's part of their DNA), and the million raise won't hurt either.

Short term, yeah it's going to be a head scratcher.  Long term, it will likely end up being a smart career move.

I agree 100% with what you said.

Even though in other threads i called Crean a scumbag (for going after our recruits).  I do think he will run a clean program and he will get his priorities straight there and more importantly, his players will have their priorities straight.  If he manages to achieve that, he will be successful.  I do not know if he will be able to meet the future expectations of the Hoosier fans but he will build a successful program there. 

jficke13

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2008, 03:05:36 PM »
I'm not saying that they will make and example of IU, but they should. When you break the rules repeatedly and seemingly with no concern for consequences, there need to be serious repercussions to rid the NCAA of the Kelvin Sampsons of its ranks.

DegenerateDish

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2008, 03:05:45 PM »
You have to look at it 5 or 10 years from now, not today.  In one sense, will IU ever be this bad again?  Probably not.  The expectations are in the basement, he'll run a clean program (which IU fans are craving for, it's part of their DNA), and the million raise won't hurt either.

Short term, yeah it's going to be a head scratcher.  Long term, it will likely end up being a smart career move.

Long term you would think this is a good career move, or at least has the potential to be one. The huge problem staring Crean in the face, especially with everything going on, will be convincing in-state recruits to come there, which as Chicos knows is 70% of what IU basketball means to that state. If Crean doesn't get the Oden/Zeller types to come to IU, he is going to be up against it. Funny thing is, if Crean doesn't change, Oden or Zeller would likely NEVER go to IU under Crean, there's no way. A big like either one of those guys isn't going to max his potential playing for Crean, not in a million years.

Everyone assumes he'll be successful, but he has a gigantic challenge ahead of him. Two years in the tank, combined with Painter, Brey, Matta, Izzo, Weber, Pitino, Gillespie lucking around the state, he's got a ton of work to do.

The natives say they'll give him time to clean up that mess, but this is 2008, not 1988. If you're a college basketball coach, especially at a place like Indiana, you better win now. People are soon going to forget how much patience they were willing to offer.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2008, 03:57:05 PM »
Kentucky

Exactly....a LONG LONG time ago and that was payment to players.  This is about phone calls...they'll get a slap on the wrist.

muhoops1

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2008, 05:02:44 PM »
What sparked this reaction from a kid that was transferring?  Obviously, Tom is not responsible for IU's current situation.  So he must have been pushing his buttons or "building a family".  This is a guy who has a reputation for being a compelte douche to people around him.  TC was freaked that another kid would leave his happy home and pushed this kid to the brink.  It is ridiculous to think this guy was unprovoked.  I hope people start seeing TC for what he is...a manipulative, self promoter.

Is Joanie still trolling our boards?  Will this hurt my status as a season ticket holder?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2008, 05:09:46 PM »
You can add to it that it looks like Marvin Harrison may be in big trouble with the police now as it relates to a shooting.

Quite a week in Indiana.

MUinOH

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2008, 07:21:16 PM »

By 2010 his team will be competeing for the Big 11 title.  That will translate to even better players and teams that will contend for the national title,

If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'll eat my hat!   >:(

nyg

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2008, 07:25:38 PM »
Unless he mixes up his recruits with some junior college players, by 2011 he could have seven seniors and have to reload again. 

79Warrior

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RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2008, 07:39:45 PM »


From Tom Creans seat, this is an outstanding situation. Team is in turmoil, expectations are low and coming off firing a coach mid season. The best CEO's love this position. Take over when the situation is worst and you have no where to go but up.
This is the perfect time for Crean to rebuild. Nobody has any expectations for next season. TC can get his guys in over the next few years and restore IU tradition.

You can laugh all you want as IU may struggle next year, but he will get it done. If TC puts out a credible product on the floor next year he will be a hero in the state. There is tremendous upside for him at IU. The next couple of years may be rough, but that is baked into the equation. TC will get it done at IU, make no mistake about it. He is a great hire for them.

Tugg Speedman

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2008, 07:49:43 PM »
When does an elite program stop being an elite program? Crean is in danger of this happening to IU. 

Have you seen his roster for next year?  He has 8 players and one is a walk-on.  Only three returning players from this year's team and none of them were any good.

Let's be real, he's looking at 5 and 22 next year.  He will finish 11th in the Big Ten.  Then he will be hit with sanctions, loss of more scholarships and Nick Williams will transfer.

IU is in mortal danger of becoming a former elite program.  In three years, they will be viewed as just another big ten basketball program, interchangeable with Purdue, Michigan and Illinois.

79Warrior

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2008, 07:53:23 PM »
When does an elite program stop being an elite program? Crean is in danger of this happening to IU. 

Have you seen his roster for next year?  He has 8 players and one is a walk-on.  Only three returning players from this year's team and none of them were any good.

Let's be real, he's looking at 5 and 22 next year.  He will finish 11th in the Big Ten.  Then he will be hit with sanctions, loss of more scholarships and Nick Williams will transfer.

IU is in mortal danger of becoming a former elite program.  In three years, they will be viewed as just another big ten basketball program, interchangeable with Purdue, Michigan and Illinois.

Next year is a write off, everyone knows that. NCAA sanctions are unlikey, TC did his homework on that. Three years from now IU will be very competitive. People here should be more concerned with Buzz that TC.

warthog-driver

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2008, 07:59:59 PM »
"Before you build a team, you need to develop a family," Crean said in a statement Friday.

He said the same crap at MU. I guess that makes him the absentee father who ran away with the neighborhood tramp.

Crean is just so full of bullcrap

warthog-driver

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2008, 08:03:42 PM »
The best CEO's love this position.

Problem is, TC is not CEO or General Officer material. He's a smooth talking sales guy, who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. His moral compass is off so he lacks scruples and courage. He's a starched white shirt removed from his white trash background and he knows that - deep down he knows he really doesn't belong.

MUinOH

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2008, 08:16:53 PM »
The best CEO's love this position.

Problem is, TC is not CEO or General Officer material. He's a smooth talking sales guy, who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. His moral compass is off so he lacks scruples and courage. He's a starched white shirt removed from his white trash background and he knows that - deep down he knows he really doesn't belong.

Wow.  His life story would've made a great movie of the week!   ;)

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2008, 08:34:12 PM »
I am in full agreement with this board on the poor way Crean left the school.  I was at times frustrated with him as the coach -- and sometimes questioned whether it was time for MU to move in another direction.  I think it was surprising that Indiana was the school where he landed, but truthfully there are many other programs that Crean could have gone to over the next few years that would have made me angrier (i.e. Illinois, OK State or I would even venture Mich State).

I think this board has become a jaded, whine session about Tom Crean.    Truthfully, despite Crean's weak points (beating a zone, developing big men and in game coaching), he is a capable steward of a Division One basketball program. 

Further, he controls nothing about the future of this program -- and in my eyes will soon be a memory.  I think he has shot at doing well at Indiana -- and frankly I won't be there to laugh if he fails or cheer if he succeeds -- because I care about MU Basketball -- not Tom Crean.

RawdogDX

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2008, 08:36:07 PM »
Yes he is a smooth talking sales men.  And what does he have to sell?  A ton of PT right from the start at Indiana.  Does anyone think this will be hard for him?   Does anyone think that he won't have a top 20 class next year?  I'm guessing his 2009 class will end up bing top 10 but, for sure it will be in the top 20.

RawdogDX

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2008, 08:44:46 PM »
If that's the way the cookie crumbles, I'll eat my hat!   >:(


well you might want to get some A1 for that because his style of play will run slow big 11 teams off the court. 

Tugg Speedman

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2008, 09:10:08 PM »
Yes he is a smooth talking sales men.  And what does he have to sell?  A ton of PT right from the start at Indiana.  Does anyone think this will be hard for him?   Does anyone think that he won't have a top 20 class next year?  I'm guessing his 2009 class will end up bing top 10 but, for sure it will be in the top 20.

Next year is a write off, everyone knows that. NCAA sanctions are unlikey, TC did his homework on that. Three years from now IU will be very competitive. People here should be more concerned with Buzz that TC.

Competitive in three years?  Top 20 class next year.  Is this what his ceiling is?  Is this Crean's goal?

No!  Crean thinks he going to be with UCLA. UNC and Duke as a truly elite program.  If all he accomplishes in Bloomington is a top 20 recruiting class and competitive in the Big Ten, he was an idiot for leaving.  He had that now.  So, he'll spend years to get to where he was on March 31, 2008 and progress no further.

No, Crean thinks he will consistently have top 5 recruiting classes and reguarly make the final four (see Howland at UCLA, three straight years).  That's what Crean thinks he can do at IU.

Why not do it at MU?  Because he could never get over the hump to a top 5 recruiting class.  Problem is the collaspe of next year's team is going to set him way back in this goal, if not permanently.

You think Jamil Wilson is going to IU next year?  Why on earth would he go and lose?  A Wilson wants to step into a program that will be ranked from day 1.  Not "I'll lose my freshman year while coach goes and find other players."



mviale

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Indiana
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2008, 09:21:06 PM »
I heard that Holman freaked out after seeing his role reduced to a Marquette Big Man under Crean.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 09:24:33 PM by mviale »
You heard it here first. Davante Gardner will be a Beast this year.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259

RawdogDX

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Re: Indiana smells like a mess
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2008, 09:39:56 PM »
you know, i was just thinking "Three threads about this isn't enough, i hope someone starts a fourth."  ;D

RawdogDX

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2008, 09:56:42 PM »
Competitive in three years?  Top 20 class next year.  Is this what his ceiling is?  Is this Crean's goal?

No!  Crean thinks he going to be with UCLA. UNC and Duke as a truly elite program.  If all he accomplishes in Bloomington is a top 20 recruiting class and competitive in the Big Ten, he was an idiot for leaving.  He had that now.  So, he'll spend years to get to where he was on March 31, 2008 and progress no further.

No, Crean thinks he will consistently have top 5 recruiting classes and reguarly make the final four (see Howland at UCLA, three straight years).  That's what Crean thinks he can do at IU.

Why not do it at MU?  Because he could never get over the hump to a top 5 recruiting class.  Problem is the collaspe of next year's team is going to set him way back in this goal, if not permanently.

You think Jamil Wilson is going to IU next year?  Why on earth would he go and lose?  A Wilson wants to step into a program that will be ranked from day 1.  Not "I'll lose my freshman year while coach goes and find other players."



Let me get this right, i talk about what i think will happen with his recruiting next year and your response is: Is that his ceiling?
No, ... no.  ??? I said that is what is going to happen next year.  How the hell did you get, 'this is what his ceiling is.'  His ceiling is all those goals you stated.  As I said in another thread today, i think he'll be competing for the big 11 champ consistently by 2010 and I think that will lead to success that he couldn't reach here because he isn't good enough to take a program to the level of name recognition he now has.  He didn't do it at mu because to do that at a non-top 7 program is a much harder task, and not one that can be achieved by a coach who is only above average. 

Recruiting is selling.  Here he was selling pt at mu, now he is selling pt at Indiana, he'll be able to get better players in a weaker league.  If a coach who had been finishing 2nd-4th in the pac-10 took the indiana job we'd all say: "it's only a matter of time."
We know crean and know he's not amazing but that doesn't mean that he's not good.  You honestly think crean, who turned a bad mu team into a perennial big east conender can't do the same thing at indiana playing against, northwestern, IL, MN, MI, Purdue, ect?

Tugg Speedman

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2008, 10:07:25 PM »
And I'm saying that Crean might have been permanently damaged by how bad next year's team will be.

But we are saying the same thing.  In 2010 when IU is ranked 18 and make the sweet sixteen, IU fans will be estatic.  In 2013 when they are ranked 17 and lose in the second round, IU will fire him.

By 2013, IU fans expect to be pre-season top 5 and make the final 4, in 2014 they have to do the same.

I don't think he can get to that level.  And when they cannot, they are a former elite team (like MU is now).  They will be Michigan or Illinois.  That is fine for most, but they will not be Duke, UNC or UCLA.  IU will not make this group and they have to come to terms that they are not UNC.  Think about how hard it was for MU fans in the 1980s, that is what IU are going to experience in the next 5 to 8 years.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Indiana
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2008, 10:16:29 PM »
Rawdog, what do you think about Indiana?

RawdogDX

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Re: Indiana
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2008, 10:48:22 PM »
haha, as a state?  It's full of crazy tweakers, the girls are hot and kinky (trust me on this) but they are looking for guys who wear wife beaters, tons of product, and gold chains to the bar.  Any wisco kid who is afraid of IL drivers has no idea what goes on there.  You get passed going 95 on 65 on the way to indy, and it's only two lanes and they will ride your ass to get you out of the way.  The small town townie bars are full of racists looking for fights...

at least that has been my experiences, that said i only hang out in the 'good' parts of indiana.

muhoosier260

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Re: Indiana
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2008, 12:06:33 AM »
i only hang out in the 'good' parts of indiana.
where might that be?

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2008, 12:18:07 AM »
I rely on Mickey Kantor for his assessment on Indiana.

farmdaddy

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2008, 01:51:45 AM »
All I could do is laugh at Crean when ESPN covered the story.  I love it

mug644

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2008, 08:05:32 AM »
What sparked this reaction from a kid that was transferring?  Obviously, Tom is not responsible for IU's current situation.  So he must have been pushing his buttons or "building a family".

My guess is that Crean laid out the reality of transferring; that is, a school isn't just going to let someone drop out and be gone. Maybe the guy refused to finish the semester and Crean threatened to not allow the transfer. It's my understanding that if someone transfers without satisfactorily completing the semester, it counts against the school graduation rate and, ultimately, can impact the number of scholarship. With possible sanctions coming down the pipeline, it is no surprise that Crean might not let someone off the hook so easily.

Murffieus

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2008, 08:49:51 AM »
Crean made an emotional decision and left in a huff-----something in the Athletic Dept structure changes really upset him------otherwise why would he leave a team that will be competitive for the BE title next year to go into this bucket of worms.

He's got nothing but headaches facing him for next 2 years or more!

MUPig

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Re: Indiana smells like a mess
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2008, 09:18:36 AM »
you know, i was just thinking "Three threads about this isn't enough, i hope someone starts a fourth."  ;D

+1

THEGYMBAR

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2008, 09:23:22 AM »
I would never underestimate a program with IU's history. UCLA had up and downs post Wooden and are one of the top five programs in the country. Programs with history, which Illinois or Michigan do not have, always can rebuild. While I hope TC is not the guy who takes IU back to elite I do not believe they are done for life.

IU is probably prepared to go backwards for a couple of years to rebuild. Like TC or not building MU up is far tougher than rebuilding IU. Another major advantage is playing in Big Ten. If I was a coach I would take my chances rebuilding there than the BE.




Nukem2

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2008, 09:38:12 AM »
Will be interesting to see what kind of NC schedule Crean has at IU the next two years with a lot of 300+ RPIs...?  although I do believe they are going to Maui in November which could be a real problem for IU...?

79Warrior

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Re: RE: Indiana Falling apart
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2008, 11:32:50 AM »
I would never underestimate a program with IU's history. UCLA had up and downs post Wooden and are one of the top five programs in the country. Programs with history, which Illinois or Michigan do not have, always can rebuild. While I hope TC is not the guy who takes IU back to elite I do not believe they are done for life.

IU is probably prepared to go backwards for a couple of years to rebuild. Like TC or not building MU up is far tougher than rebuilding IU. Another major advantage is playing in Big Ten. If I was a coach I would take my chances rebuilding there than the BE.





Agreed. Walk into Asemby hall and see all the championship banners hanging. IU will be back, perhaps sooner than some may like.

muarmy81

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #51 on: May 05, 2008, 01:09:50 PM »
What is risky about this for him?  
Worst case senario:
With the team in shambles the AD will not expect results for the next three years.  (fans will want it earlier) If they are still bad after three he might get fired and then end up getting a job two weeks later coaching a bottom tear program in a major conference and he'll have a chance to try and build it up to an MU level.  Oh, the horrors

But that isn't going to happen, he's going to be able to spend all of 08 telling every 09 kid he meets that they will have significant playing time at Indiana as a freshman.  He was able to bring in the big three here using that same mantra, he'll have better results there.  He'll be able to get better players than he did here in a weeker conference.  By 2010 his team will be competeing for the Big 11 title.  That will translate to even better players and teams that will contend for the national title, something he couldn't do here because he isn't that good, but he can in Indiana.

100% smart move in the long run (and by that i mean 3 years from now)

I don't think there is any question that he'll be able to bring talented players to IU...I mean it is Indiana, sorry.  But with great talent and zero coaching I think he'll be exposed for the Marketing Guy he is and if that happens do you think any school on the level of Marquette will want to hire him?  No, he'll end up at Wagner University like Mike Deane or worse the NBDL like Quinn Synder...

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #52 on: May 05, 2008, 01:24:38 PM »
I don't think there is any question that he'll be able to bring talented players to IU...I mean it is Indiana, sorry.  But with great talent and zero coaching I think he'll be exposed for the Marketing Guy he is and if that happens do you think any school on the level of Marquette will want to hire him?  No, he'll end up at Wagner University like Mike Deane or worse the NBDL like Quinn Synder...

Zero coaching...come on.  That's your anger talking.  MU didn't have 4 and 5 star players under his regime, yet he still managed 31 Big East wins in 3 years, NCAAs three straight years, the second most wins in MU history.

Zero coaching might be more then a bit of stretch.  And when Diener, Wade and others are in the NBA telling recruits (not directly mind you) that he can coach, he's going to get players to go there.  He's not a great coach, but then again he didn't have the greatest talent.

At IU, he'll get great talent and low and behold, you watch how much of a better coach one becomes when you have better talent.   ;)

THEGYMBAR

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #53 on: May 05, 2008, 01:34:33 PM »
Chicos nails it on the head yet again. Like TC or not the guy does great job preparing. The team and individual defense improved every year under him. He might not be a great game coach...but he knows ball. If he recruits better players, which I am not 100% convinced of, he will look like a heckuva coach in three years.

Personally I think TC is intimidated by the top name recruits. For all of his marketing skills everytime I talked to him I saw an insecure guy. I think that trait remains with him for life.

bma725

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #54 on: May 05, 2008, 02:52:48 PM »
Zero coaching...come on.  That's your anger talking.  MU didn't have 4 and 5 star players under his regime, yet he still managed 31 Big East wins in 3 years, NCAAs three straight years, the second most wins in MU history.



Didn't have 4 Star players?  Just last year they had 5 of them, James, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward and Mbakwe were all 4 star recruits.

RawdogDX

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #55 on: May 05, 2008, 03:29:30 PM »
Anyone who thinks he is going to land 5 star recruits and not win the big 11 and have a top 10 teams is lying to themsleves. 
Anyone who thinks a guy who could recruit a team that would have had: dj, jm, wm, lh, Tm and EW isn't going to be able to get even better players to go to indiana is lying to themselves.

You can all keep your fingers crossed, imagine reasons, and clap if you believe in farries but he's going to do well there. 
That said, there's a chance he might not get to a final four in his first 6 years and get fired for it despite fielding good teams, getting to an e8 or two and winning the big 11, but he's going to do well.

ChicosBailBonds

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #56 on: May 05, 2008, 03:40:26 PM »
Didn't have 4 Star players?  Just last year they had 5 of them, James, Matthews, McNeal, Hayward and Mbakwe were all 4 star recruits.

My bad....I knew that too.  Kick me in the balls   ;)   My point was more about Ryan has more 4 and 5 star players on his squad recently then MU has had yet he gets treated like he's taken 10 CYO guys and threw them out there.

Not sure why in the hell I said no 4 star players....

warthogdriver

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #57 on: May 05, 2008, 03:52:40 PM »
Personally I think TC is intimidated by the top name recruits. For all of his marketing skills everytime I talked to him I saw an insecure guy. I think that trait remains with him for life.

He is The Outsider. He comes from the wrong side of the tracks. His father bolted when He was very young; there was no male presence in the home as He grew older - realizing linear progression without the concomitant maturity. He watched from afar, envying their nicer clothes, late model vehicles, and straight teeth. Summer time, when others were off to Europe, the lake house, or to the coast, He lingered behind, finding solace on the mean asphalt playgrounds. Even there He did not belong - lacking the physical attributes needed for success - but at least He did not feel so damned socially, economically and intellectually inferior - so much The Outsider, if you will.

Others went off to the better schools - private and prestigious - or even to the main campus in Ann Arbor. His path led down the road to the school that required a geographical reference for its name. He resented being there and sought vicarious association through volunteering at a smaller private school. It was there that He began to plot out His path to that other, more enticing world denied to Him from birth.

As He began to enter the bigger and better world He knew, deep down He knew, that He would always be The Outsider. He learned their ways, their mannerisms, and their aspirations; unfortunately, He never learned their ethical code, their values, their moral fiber. The white trash, trailer park upbringing was still there - a mere micron below the surface, papered over with tailored starched shirts. He compensated through bravado and crass huckstering. His vulgar roots often flashed ugly - at children's sporting events, behind closed doors at the state-of-the-art practice facility paid for by His social betters, and in countless other unseen interactions with the world to which he managed admission yet never truly understood.

Many left His court, traumatized by the unrefined sensibilities of The Outsider. His belligerence, the arrogance, were manifestations of one who knew He had entered a world that was not His. He lacked their refinement, their culture, their taste, their social maturity, and most telling, He never learned their sense of honor and its attendant dignity. He had gained admission but not acceptance. As He wandered the halls of His over done house, He knew that its decor lacked the finesse of the more tastefully appointed homes in His immediate neighborhood...

MUinOH

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Re: Indiana is falling appart
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2008, 09:10:09 PM »
Thanks, Warthog, for the good read!  Like modern day Shakespeare -- a would-be-hero with a tragic flaw.   ;)

 

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