Crean's coaching level

[RJax55]

I think one of the issues with the soccer thing is that it was sold to us by people in the know on the Scout board as a "Major Annoucement at the Al"...

I think people were thinking major name assistant, new home and home series, etc etc.  It just seemed oversold and mostly by the scout board folks.

I agree, it was oversold from the Scout people, but that's not Crean's fault. I guess I could put on my Crean conspiracy theory hat for a moment, and say, "Crean told the Scout guys to promote his donation as a Major Announcement at the Al", but I have no evidence that ever occurred.

2002alum, I appreciate you trying to further the debate, but PRN has no insight or perspective to offer. We all know his position on Crean, as he has stated it over and over again. He has the right to that opinion, but let's stop pretending he holds insightful commentary.

Twice in this thread PRN has been asked by other posters to produce evidence to back up his claims (Assistant coaching salaries & Crean's soccer donation press conference).

What has been his response ... Let's see ... He ignored Pakuni request regarding assistant coaching salaries and fired back with the "You guys are clueless" comment when ask to produce evidence that Crean was the one who called the donation press conference.

[MarquetteFan94]

I encourage all of you to believe what you want. But do so with the knowledge that you're absolutely, 100 percent wrong.

This was a couple years ago. I'm betting he wouldn't make the same mistake again.

Hilarious. Just curious, was his mistake donating the money or the fact that MU held a press conference to announce it? 

Maybe Crean should've annonymously given the $100k to Fr. Donnelly so that the press release could've read, "Long-time Western Civilization Professor Gives Boost to MU's New Soccer Stadium".....can you imagine the buzz and awareness for the fund raising campaign that would've created?  They missed the boat.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think one of the issues with the soccer thing is that it was sold to us by people in the know on the Scout board as a "Major Annoucement at the Al"...

I think people were thinking major name assistant, new home and home series, etc etc.  It just seemed oversold and mostly by the scout board folks.

2002alum, I appreciate you trying to further the debate, but PRN has no insight or perspective to offer. We all know his position on Crean, as he has stated it over and over again. He has the right to that opinion, but let's stop pretending he holds insightful commentary.

Twice in this thread PRN has been asked by other posters to produce evidence to back up his claims (Assistant coaching salaries & Crean's soccer donation press conference).

What has been his response ... Let's see ... He ignored Pakuni request regarding assistant coaching salaries and fired back with the "You guys are clueless" comment when ask to produce evidence that Crean was the one who called the donation press conference.

I agree, I'm just trying to offer up what I think is a rational explanation, and I'm interested why PRN (and or others) dismiss this explanation with no logical one to take it's place.

Honestly, I'm not trying to start a fight or harsh debate. The best part about this board is the free exchange of ideas and differing perspectives from fans/alumni.

I look forward to PRN's thoughts, and I hope it isn't just calling me clueless or saying that I can believe what I want.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

I think one of the issues with the soccer thing is that it was sold to us by people in the know on the Scout board as a "Major Annoucement at the Al"...

I think people were thinking major name assistant, new home and home series, etc etc.  It just seemed oversold and mostly by the scout board folks.

So you got sold a bad bill of goods once from people other then Tom Crean and you hold it against our coach?

[1990Warrior]

Just wondering, what was meant by "coaching level" in the title of this thread?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Twice in this thread PRN has been asked by other posters to produce evidence to back up his claims (Assistant coaching salaries & Crean's soccer donation press conference).

Evidence? Are you serious? Is there some burden of proof I need to meet?  Laughable. If I felt like humoring you, I'd dig up "evidence," but for now just be assured that you are wrong and I am right.

[RawdogDX]

I think one of the issues with the soccer thing is that it was sold to us by people in the know on the Scout board as a "Major Annoucement at the Al"...

I think people were thinking major name assistant, new home and home series, etc etc.  It just seemed oversold and mostly by the scout board folks.

2002alum, I appreciate you trying to further the debate, but PRN has no insight or perspective to offer. We all know his position on Crean, as he has stated it over and over again. He has the right to that opinion, but let's stop pretending he holds insightful commentary.

Twice in this thread PRN has been asked by other posters to produce evidence to back up his claims (Assistant coaching salaries & Crean's soccer donation press conference).

What has been his response ... Let's see ... He ignored Pakuni request regarding assistant coaching salaries and fired back with the "You guys are clueless" comment when ask to produce evidence that Crean was the one who called the donation press conference.

I agree, I'm just trying to offer up what I think is a rational explanation, and I'm interested why PRN (and or others) dismiss this explanation with no logical one to take it's place.

Honestly, I'm not trying to start a fight or harsh debate. The best part about this board is the free exchange of ideas and differing perspectives from fans/alumni.

I look forward to PRN's thoughts, and I hope it isn't just calling me clueless or saying that I can believe what I want.

you are interested in his thoughts?  It's like talking to a fundimentalist christian about evolution.  You can pound him on this message board and he'll ignore anything you say that has meaning and just tell you that you are wrong because of things you don't know but he does and you should believe him because he says so.  I assumed he was someone older than me based on his anger about stuff that happened in the 80's but i just have a hard time shaking the idea that some child did a bunch of research and gets mad about it... then again that would imply that prn has done research.

[RawdogDX]

To address the point about not being genuine, I have heard that from people before.  Here is what happened to me.

My family finished eating at a restaurant and as we were walking out we saw Joani, Lazar, a recruit, and the recruits father waiting for a table.  When we got outside and were walking away from the entrance we saw Crean walking toward the door after parking his car.  My boys said "hi coach" and we kept walking.  Crean then says "Hey guys, come here. Let me introduce you to some people"  So we go back inside with him to get introduced to everyone.  He then walks away and comes back with some menus and has Lazar and the recruit sign autographs for my kids.

I would think that the last thing he is interested in when trying to convince a recruit to come to MU is making sure that my kids get introduced and get an autograph, but he did.  So I am not really sure why I continue to hear that he is not genuine.

I am a firm believer that you can find out a lot about someone from who they married.  In other words, if the spouse is cool and genuine then usually so is the other one.  Not always, but usually I have found this to be the case.

Joanie is a class act so that speaks volumes to me about the sincerity and genuineness of her husband.

The guy had basically no father, is a self starter, definitely a type A in a big way....that turns off some people.  So be it.  I want that kind of guy running my country, running our military, running my company and running my basketball team.  I'll take different kind of people running other things in life, but those are the types I want for those leadership positions.

you are insufferable

I haven't been involved with this at all but, than again, neither has tony.  Why are you leaving a three word insulting post directed at someone who's pontificating about personality types?  Are you mad at him for saying good people mary good people?  Is it because your wife isn't cool?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I encourage all of you to believe what you want. But do so with the knowledge that you're absolutely, 100 percent wrong.

This was a couple years ago. I'm betting he wouldn't make the same mistake again.

What if I told you that the University asked him to make the statement, invite the cameras, etc to help maximize the message.  Now, he could have said no, but what if I told you he was going along with the university / department's wishes on this.

Does this change your opinion a little bit?  

[ChicosBailBonds]

To address the point about not being genuine, I have heard that from people before.  Here is what happened to me.

My family finished eating at a restaurant and as we were walking out we saw Joani, Lazar, a recruit, and the recruits father waiting for a table.  When we got outside and were walking away from the entrance we saw Crean walking toward the door after parking his car.  My boys said "hi coach" and we kept walking.  Crean then says "Hey guys, come here. Let me introduce you to some people"  So we go back inside with him to get introduced to everyone.  He then walks away and comes back with some menus and has Lazar and the recruit sign autographs for my kids.

I would think that the last thing he is interested in when trying to convince a recruit to come to MU is making sure that my kids get introduced and get an autograph, but he did.  So I am not really sure why I continue to hear that he is not genuine.

I am a firm believer that you can find out a lot about someone from who they married.  In other words, if the spouse is cool and genuine then usually so is the other one.  Not always, but usually I have found this to be the case.

Joanie is a class act so that speaks volumes to me about the sincerity and genuineness of her husband.

The guy had basically no father, is a self starter, definitely a type A in a big way....that turns off some people.  So be it.  I want that kind of guy running my country, running our military, running my company and running my basketball team.  I'll take different kind of people running other things in life, but those are the types I want for those leadership positions.

you are insufferable

I'm guessing that comment was for me....thanks Tony, as always.


I still love this one from you the most..."Coach Crean will be in McCovey's cove retrieving baseballs during the HR hitting contest.  No boat, he will simply walk on the water. "

[RJax55]

Twice in this thread PRN has been asked by other posters to produce evidence to back up his claims (Assistant coaching salaries & Crean's soccer donation press conference).

Evidence? Are you serious? Is there some burden of proof I need to meet?  Laughable. If I felt like humoring you, I'd dig up "evidence," but for now just be assured that you are wrong and I am right.

You're correct ... I should have never doubted your claims. Who needs facts when you have an argument as sound as  "I'm right and you're wrong."

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I encourage all of you to believe what you want. But do so with the knowledge that you're absolutely, 100 percent wrong.

This was a couple years ago. I'm betting he wouldn't make the same mistake again.

What if I told you that the University asked him to make the statement, invite the cameras, etc to help maximize the message.  Now, he could have said no, but what if I told you he was going along with the university / department's wishes on this.

Does this change your opinion a little bit?  

Yes, it would change it a little bit, but my suspicious nature would still lead me to believe it was his idea. As I recall, at the time many people thought the same thing.  

For the rest of you guys, Buzz Williams makes 200K, which is borderline outrageous for a first year assistant at a school crying poor 365 days a year.

[MarquetteFan94]

I'd say $200k is commensurate with Buzz Williams' experience and with the market value of coaches salaries....he makes about 1/8 of what Coach Crean makes...seems about right.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I encourage all of you to believe what you want. But do so with the knowledge that you're absolutely, 100 percent wrong.

This was a couple years ago. I'm betting he wouldn't make the same mistake again.

What if I told you that the University asked him to make the statement, invite the cameras, etc to help maximize the message.  Now, he could have said no, but what if I told you he was going along with the university / department's wishes on this.

Does this change your opinion a little bit?  

Yes, it would change it a little bit, but my suspicious nature would still lead me to believe it was his idea. As I recall, at the time many people thought the same thing.  

For the rest of you guys, Buzz Williams makes 200K, which is borderline outrageous for a first year assistant at a school crying poor 365 days a year.

Kevin O'Neill signed as an assistant this year with Arizona for $375,000.   It's not outrageous what Buzz is getting considering he was also a head coach and has provided some excellent recruiting connections.

[MUSF]

I encourage all of you to believe what you want. But do so with the knowledge that you're absolutely, 100 percent wrong.

This was a couple years ago. I'm betting he wouldn't make the same mistake again.

What if I told you that the University asked him to make the statement, invite the cameras, etc to help maximize the message.  Now, he could have said no, but what if I told you he was going along with the university / department's wishes on this.

Does this change your opinion a little bit?  

Yes, it would change it a little bit, but my suspicious nature would still lead me to believe it was his idea. As I recall, at the time many people thought the same thing.  

For the rest of you guys, Buzz Williams makes 200K, which is borderline outrageous for a first year assistant at a school crying poor 365 days a year.

My suspicious nature leads me to believe the moon landing was a hoax, the holocaust never happened, and Hillary Clinton is actually a homosexual man.

I guess I'll assume those to be fact and spread my knowledge to the ignorant and naive internet community. Thank you PRN... Thank you.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Chicos --
You're equating Buzz Williams with Kevin O'Neill -- a former NBA head coach and the former head man at schools in the SEC, Big Ten and at Marquette -- a guy who was (originally) brought in as the successor to Lute? You're being disingenious because you know damn well that you were surprised to learn how much he was making. I remember when it came up.

By the way, does Arizona claim they need to play a certain amount of home games against crappy non-conference opponents to meet their budget?

[MarquetteFan94]

Does $200,000 = $375,000?  Can one really compare the Athletic Departments of Arizona and Marquette and actually think that's an apples-to-apples comparison?  Wow....keeps getting better.

[RawdogDX]

Chicos --
By the way, does Arizona claim they need to play a certain amount of home games against crappy non-conference opponents to meet their budget?

Concordia University, Northern Arizona, Missouri-Kansas City, Adams State College, Cal State Fullerton...
I'd say yes.

[ATWizJr]

This thread is out of control.  The major objection I read is that some are critical of TC because, having given $100,000 to the soccer program, it was announced that he was generous enough to do it?  

He is being criticized for giving back to the school and the school trying to stir up a little publicity for the soccer program?  That $100,000 did more for the athletic program, specifically for the soccer program, than all that has ever been done for soccer in the past via donations.  

Personally, I wish the guys was twins.  Enjoy and appreciate what you have, naysayers, but I doubt that you can. Apparently, the previous  20-30 years of wandering in the desert has not developed your appreciation of the program's current high profile.  Unbelievable.

[Pakuni]

For the rest of you guys, Buzz Williams makes 200K, which is borderline outrageous for a first year assistant at a school crying poor 365 days a year.

That $200K figure is meaningless unless you can put it into the context of what other assistants at major conference schools are earning. Likewise, it fails to offer any credence to your claim that Marquette is forced to overpay its assistants.
At most it shows that MU is paying a high salary to one assistant coach who already has paid significant dividends in return. If it even qualifies as a high salary. Certainly nothing to indicate MU was "forced" to do it because of Tom Crean.
I

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos --
You're equating Buzz Williams with Kevin O'Neill -- a former NBA head coach and the former head man at schools in the SEC, Big Ten and at Marquette -- a guy who was (originally) brought in as the successor to Lute? You're being disingenious because you know damn well that you were surprised to learn how much he was making. I remember when it came up.

By the way, does Arizona claim they need to play a certain amount of home games against crappy non-conference opponents to meet their budget?

I was just giving an example....and $200K is a FAR FAR cry from $375K...almost half.  I don't think it's out of the realm at all.

I was damn well surprised at the amount, only because I sometimes harken back to my days there.  But after thinking about it, my days were quite some time ago....9 years now.  Back then the assists were probably around $80K to $100K if I had to guess.  But with success comes a higher payroll.

But, if O'Neill doesn't float your boat....how about Craig Neal.  Who...that's right, Craig Neal at New Mexico.

"Alford's top assistant coach at Iowa, Craig Neal, is coming with him to UNM. He will be paid $250,000 a year, more than twice any of McKay's assistant coaches made and more than twice what former head coach Dave Bliss was hired for in 1988."

http://www.abqtrib.com/news/2007/mar/24/lobos-coachs-salary-worth-wins-come/


If New Mexico is paying their assistant $250K, then I don't feel one bit upset about MU paying someone (with head coaching experience) $200K.

[LovinCrowder]

OMG - ENOUGH ALREADY



argue, argue, argue, nitpick, nitpick, nitpick ........   Can't we just appreciate what Crean has done for this program and for his generous donation to the soccer team???????   You all think the grass is greener on the other side.....  Like him or not, he has done a great job of turning this program around ..

some people are never satisfied...... geez, this is going to be a long offseason...............

[RawdogDX]

OMG - ENOUGH ALREADY



argue, argue, argue, nitpick, nitpick, nitpick ........   Can't we just appreciate what Crean has done for this program and for his generous donation to the soccer team???????   You all think the grass is greener on the other side.....  Like him or not, he has done a great job of turning this program around ..

some people are never satisfied...... geez, this is going to be a long offseason...............

who is this 'you all'?  i think it's only prn.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Warriorette...I think there are just a few here that have trouble with him.  Most realize the great job he's doing, the city is going to games like never before, we're getting good student athletes.....a lot of very good things going on right now and in the last 10 years.  It's a great time to be a fan.

[LovinCrowder]

OMG - ENOUGH ALREADY



argue, argue, argue, nitpick, nitpick, nitpick ........   Can't we just appreciate what Crean has done for this program and for his generous donation to the soccer team???????   You all think the grass is greener on the other side.....  Like him or not, he has done a great job of turning this program around ..

some people are never satisfied...... geez, this is going to be a long offseason...............

who is this 'you all'?  i think it's only prn.

Well, he isn't the only one but he sure is at the top of the list.......Now I know why Nightmare is in his screen name