Crean's coaching level

[classof70]

I am on an email group of old MU alum, including some ex-players.  The resentment against Crean by many in this group is palpable.  Essentially, in my view, the complaints comes down to 1) he's not a good bench coach, especially late in the game; 2) he offended George Thompson; 3) he's not genuine.  Of course, I think some of it is he's not McGuire.  I tend to agree that he's not the best bench coach, but I think the other two are complaints from the "old" against the "new".  Frankly, in my view, weak outside shooting during the year and free throws against Gtown express MU's season.   Anyway, Crean cannot make the shots and/or free throws.  As an "old" alum, I'm like Crean.  But then, maybe I'm not "in the know".

I'd be interested in observations of others.

[Marquette_g]

I am a somewhat younger alum (class of 2000).  I am by no means a Crean apologist, but I think that people who are trying to run him out of town are foolish.  There is no chance we can replace him with someone nearly as good.  He has his flaws, but all coaches do.  Coach K hasn't exactly had the best success the past two years. 

I do not think Crean is the greatest Xs & Os coach there is, but he does run a pro-style offense which helps us get good talent.  I also think he gets his players to play extremely hard.

I think reasons 2 and 3 are extremely trite.  I'm not saying we should all rush-out and offend all-time greats, but it certainly seems a bit lame.

[only a warrior]

I'm an alum from 1986 - some of the darkest days of MU basketball, from Majerus sliding into Dukiet.  Remember going 10 years and not dancing?  Crean has given his all for this institution - don't know who out there could do a better job that would accept the position...

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The biggest misconception about Crean is his recruiting. He has not been able to attract top level talent to MU. Our team is woefully undersized at every position other than point guard. I have much less problem with his coaching than I do with his recruiting. I mean, we're looking at a roster with 8 guards next year! Are you kidding me?

I agree with this "old guard" that he's less than genuine and I think the annual assistant coaching exodus is very indicative of what kind of guy he is.

The George Thompson situation was unfortunate. It's beyond the number thing, too. George was forced out of his radio gig and then the very next year his number was given to Hayward? That was outrageous and seemed curious given Brute Force's dismissal from the radio.

Basically, he's not a very likable guy and I would love it if he accepted another job.

[Marquette_g]

Basically I could care less how likable he is, what I do care about would be our ability to insert someone of equal ability.  Due to the success of the team UNDER CREAN there is a large group of people who believes this program is bigger than it is.  We'd have a great deal of trouble finding a replacement capable of keeping the product on the court at the level it is. 

Again, I'm not about insulting G. Thompson, but can say that I don't miss hearing him on the radio. 

[jmayer1]

Basically, he's not a very likable guy and I would love it if he accepted another job.

Who do you want to get to replace him?  It seems some people complain a lot without offering any solutions.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Basically, he's not a very likable guy and I would love it if he accepted another job.

Who do you want to get to replace him?  It seems some people complain a lot without offering any solutions.

We've never had a problem attracting coaching candidates...ever. Kevin O'Neill was one of the hottest assistant coaches in the country when he took over. Deane was something of a hot commodity. Heck, even Bob Dukiet was one of the most highly regarded coaches in the country.

We'd be fine if Crean left.

[IAmMarquette]

GT was "forced" out of his radio gig because he was a terrible commentator. I mean awful. On the level of Ron Santo on Cubs radio broadcasts. Damn near un-listen-able.

And unlikable according to whom? PRN? A handful of McGuire-era alumni?

I first posted the story after our game in South Bend last month, when TC stopped to talk to my brother and his friends (MU '02/'03 alums) in the team's hotel after the game. My brother in particular really disliked Crean when he was hired, but after meeting him his opinion changed.

Some of you may not like the guy. Fine. But to run him out of town for that reason is asinine. Foolish. Idiotic. Any other synonym you can list.

[MarquetteFan94]

I am on an email group of old MU alum, including some ex-players.  The resentment against Crean by many in this group is palpable.  Essentially, in my view, the complaints comes down to 1) he's not a good bench coach, especially late in the game; 2) he offended George Thompson; 3) he's not genuine.  Of course, I think some of it is he's not McGuire.  I tend to agree that he's not the best bench coach, but I think the other two are complaints from the "old" against the "new".  Frankly, in my view, weak outside shooting during the year and free throws against Gtown express MU's season.   Anyway, Crean cannot make the shots and/or free throws.  As an "old" alum, I'm like Crean.  But then, maybe I'm not "in the know".

I'd be interested in observations of others.

My first thought is....there will never be another Al McGuire.  He was a once in a lifetime....the sooner people realize how lucky the Marquette and college basketball community was to have him the better...and I think most people do realize it.

When I hear criticism of Crean, my first response is always..."ok, who is your choice then...who would you rather have?"  Inevitably, the list contains names of high mid-major coaches that have won some NCAA tournament games...Sean Miller is the recent flavor of the month.  There is not an MU fan anywhere that would not have wanted MU to have more NCAA success than we've had since our Final Four but, contrary to some, building a program is about more than that...believe it or not.

Just last week the graduation rates came out showing MU as one of the top programs in the tournament to graduate its players.  The kids we have on this team have always represented the MU community extremely well on and off the court.  How many arrests or incidents have there been with MU players since Crean has been here?  (Saunders never got to campus).  We have been to the Final Four in the last 5 years, now play in the Big East and built a $31M practice facility.  Watching the NIT game Florida hosted in the first round last week they were bragging about Florida's $12M facility....

We will most likely finish in the top 15 in national attendance this year....again.

By no means am I saying that Crean is directly responsible for all of this but those who think he has little-to-nothing to do with it is ignorant.

People need only to think of where this program was 9 years ago....it's been an absolutely remarkable turnaround.

He may not be the best bench or x's and o's coach in the country....so, who is?  Who cares?  We have a great coach and the state MU basketball is strong....the program is in great hands.

BTW, since MU has joined the Big East there have been three or four teams with more conference wins than MU...not bad is it? Oh yeah....and, if I recall correctly, we just won a game in the NCAA tournament 4 days ago and lost by 1 in overtime to the 8th ranked team in the country in the second round or we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I don't recall what Crean did to George Thompson?  If it was getting him off of MU radio then I'm in full support, he was awful to listen to...if it was something else then I don't remember.  All I know is that they had a George Thompson night at the BC a couple seasons ago from which I still have the t-shirt.

As far as him not being genuine....that's one person's opinion versus another.  He has done nothing but embrace the history and heritage of the MU basketball program and tried to build off that tradition.  Anyone notice the "Al" on the jersey, the name of the court we play on or the name of that $31M practice facility?  Anyone notice who is the Grand Marshall (or whatever it's called) for Al's run?  Of course, some will say, "oh, there's that self-promoting Crean again."  Give me a break.  I'm not sure what the previous players or "older" alums are looking for?  Were they happy with Mike Deane or Kevin O'Neill's profanity-laced tirades?

I'll gladly take my "chances" with a coach like Tom Crean who will continue to get better as a young coach that has already put us back on the national map than some flavor-of-the-month, mid-major coach that has won a game (or two) in the last couple NCAA's.

Whew, I feel better now...thanks.

[Marquette_g]

I am Marquette...fantastic post and very reflective of the voice of people under the age of 35.

[Pakuni]

The biggest misconception about Crean is his recruiting. He has not been able to attract top level talent to MU.

Lessee ... MU is one of I believe only four Big East schools to get double-digit conference wins three years running, yet he's not attracting top-level talent?
Pray tell, PRN, how exactly do you define top-level talent?
I tend to believe if you're winning, and winning a lot, you've got talent.

I agree with this "old guard" that he's less than genuine and I think the annual assistant coaching exodus is very indicative of what kind of guy he is.

Sure ... Buckley, Horn, Kowalczyk, they didn't really want those head-coaching gigs. They just wanted out of Marquette and where fortunate enough those jobs opened up for them as they were leaving.
And the fact Buckley returned to work for Tyrant Tom? Obviously an act of mere desperation by a man who had no other options.
Sheesh. Do you ever run your stuff through a logic detector?

Really, when exactly did Tom Crean pee in your coffee? You obviously have some kind of intense personal grudge against the guy and I'd love to know exactly how he slighted you.

As for George Thompson ... as noted above, he was just plain awful. The fact he lasted in that gig as long as he did is a tribute to the loyalty of Marquette to its former players.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The biggest misconception about Crean is his recruiting. He has not been able to attract top level talent to MU.

Lessee ... MU is one of I believe only four Big East schools to get double-digit conference wins three years running, yet he's not attracting top-level talent?
Pray tell, PRN, how exactly do you define top-level talent?
I tend to believe if you're winning, and winning a lot, you've got talent.

I agree with this "old guard" that he's less than genuine and I think the annual assistant coaching exodus is very indicative of what kind of guy he is.

Sure ... Buckley, Horn, Kowalczyk, they didn't really want those head-coaching gigs. They just wanted out of Marquette and where fortunate enough those jobs opened up for them as they were leaving.
And the fact Buckley returned to work for Tyrant Tom? Obviously an act of mere desperation by a man who had no other options.
Sheesh. Do you ever run your stuff through a logic detector?

Really, when exactly did Tom Crean pee in your coffee? You obviously have some kind of intense personal grudge against the guy and I'd love to know exactly how he slighted you.

As for George Thompson ... as noted above, he was just plain awful. The fact he lasted in that gig as long as he did is a tribute to the loyalty of Marquette to its former players.

Pakuni, this post is dead on, and shows that you can slice any situation to fit an agenda.

Some people aren't into Crean, and they will always look for a reason to justify their dislike. (PRN)

Honestly, I'm not a Crean lover... but when I look at the state of the program now, compared to when he took it over... it's light years ahead. I don't think he deserves all of the credit... but he certainly has been a big part of the MU basketball renaissance.

Also, as far as Dukiet, Oneil, and Deane being "hot" coaches when MU hired them... if that is really true, then you can keep your "hot" coaches and I'll stick with our current general. He has surppased all of them 10x over.

 

[BaltimoreMC]

I'm so sick of this discussion.  Crean leaving would be THE WORST thing that could happen to this program right now.  Next topic please.

[rocky_warrior]

I am on an email group of old MU alum, including some ex-players.  The resentment against Crean by many in this group is palpable.

Heh, if it's the same e-mail group I was on for a while (and I'm guessing it is), well I can say this: I respect the contributions the former players made to MU, and I respect the passion of the "old" fans.  However, without ever meeting any of them or Crean, I would easily say Tom Crean is the most likable of the bunch.

After a few e-mails of unnecessary Crean bashing I had to reply and stick up for Crean a bit (I don't think I'm an apologist), and respectfully ask to be removed from the list.

With all that Crean *HAS* done at Marquette, I can't believe the number of people that seem to only be able to focus on what he *HAS NOT*done.  Seriously, there's a lot more to be happy about than there is to complain about.

We've never had a problem attracting coaching candidates...ever. Kevin O'Neill was one of the hottest assistant coaches in the country when he took over. Deane was something of a hot commodity. Heck, even Bob Dukiet was one of the most highly regarded coaches in the country.

We'd be fine if Crean left.

Uhh...see that's exactly what you seem to ignore.  We may be able to attract a large number of "highly regarded" coaches.  But looking at the history of the "highly regarded" coaches we did hire, how many did better than Crean?  I'd say none.  How can you be so confident the next one will be as good or better with that kind of track record?

Finding the right coach is much more difficult than finding a highly regarded coach.

[Marquette_g]

Current Vote:

For - 10 posters
Against - PRN

I think 10 to 1 is about the ratio I would have expected.

[marquette09]

GT was "forced" out of his radio gig because he was a terrible commentator. I mean awful. On the level of Ron Santo on Cubs radio broadcasts. Damn near un-listen-able.

Lets keep Ron Santo out of this, he is the man...so is TC

[Sir Lawrence]

I guess I'm from the "older" set of alums on this board (it saddens me to admit that I'll be turning the big 5-0 in a few months), and I side strongly with the pro-Crean camp.  This has all been hashed out before, but it's a much different game now than it was when Al was coaching.  I think Al recognized that fact and got out before it ate him up.

PRN talks about recruiting as his major beef with Crean, but it certainly is much, much more difficult to bring a guy into Milwaukee now than it was when the area south of the Mason-Dixon line wasn't really interested in the "city" players.  Al gave kids a chance that they no longer need. 

Crean's work ethic is undeniably strong.  His players respect him.  He, along with Cords, has brought success to a program that could easily have fallen off the college basketball map.  I think we are fortunate to have him.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

Basically, he's not a very likable guy and I would love it if he accepted another job.

Who do you want to get to replace him?  It seems some people complain a lot without offering any solutions.

We've never had a problem attracting coaching candidates...ever. Kevin O'Neill was one of the hottest assistant coaches in the country when he took over. Deane was something of a hot commodity. Heck, even Bob Dukiet was one of the most highly regarded coaches in the country.

We'd be fine if Crean left.

And yet you still don't give options.

Picking an assistant to do well at this level is very, very hard. Look at the guys that came from Izzo. With the exception of Joplin, they've all been tagged as "great hires" who will "win very big" someday. Out of them all, Crean seems to be the only one who's been able to blend tenure and success.

Even before this weekend, I've always felt Darrin Horn should be the first call if Crean were to leave. They have matching styles, Horn knows the MU program, he played big time basketball, can really recruit the kids, and I think he has some Xs and Os knowledge that people hold against Crean.

What are some realistic options people think Marquette can land (not flirt with) as their next head coach?

[The Lens]

If TC leaves, my first call is to Tony Bennett.  Mark Turgeon & Kevin Stallings would be on my list.  I'd even call Bruce Pearl.

I don't think people realize how much of a good thing TC has here at MU.  The basketball coach is god except with more power and better pay. 

When you add up practice facilities, salary, low maintenance AD, recruiting budget, budget for assistants and support staff, you'll find that this is a pretty good job.  It's 10 times the job it was when Crean took it in 1999.  Thanks in large part to him.  And the best part is no expectations, you can go 5 years in between tourney wins and get relatively little heat.   

[ErickJD08]

All good posts.  I am happy with Crean.  I can honestly say that we have one of the hardest working teams in the country.  The players efforts are all Crean's doing.  He recruits those kind of players and he builds them to be even more hard-nosed.  In all honesty, we lost a heartbreaker.  A game we should have won, when (in all honesty) we were really out matched with the Lopez twins.  The only thing I would take back from the game is the last shot in regulation because there was enough time on the clock than to just jack a three.  But oh well.

Crean does have his faults.  I think the Big Man recruit is pathetic.  I understand that there are limited big men out there but kids are not dumb.  At least they should not be if they are educated, by Crean, properly.  If any good/decent big man pays attention to the basketball stage, they could tell that they could make a HUGE impact at Marquette.  If I were Crean, I would say, "Look, we look like a guard school but we need a big guy to make that next step.  To be a national champion.  Look at the guard play, and look at our big guys.  Imagine you were that big guy next year.  You could be turning those weak lay-ups into Top 10 SC highlight reel dunks.  You could be the reason our program becomes a national champion contender." ...  END OF STORY.  How could a kid not listen?  If he actually watches basketball, we would know everything within the quotes to be true.  Marquette is one big man away from national championship DISCUSSION.  

Next season is a big test for Crean.  Can he develop a program?  Is he going to have to rebuild or can he just reload?  Can we see some legit "passing of the torch" in most positions next year?  I know we have a 6'10 kid coming in but he is apparently rough edged.  Can Crean develop Burke?  A big forward that most times looks silly on the offensive end, especially for his size.  

I sit on the boat of "He is not the best, but he is good.  And if he is so bad, who should replace him?"  The next couple of years are critical.  This is the TRUE end of the Dwayne Wade era.  James, McNeal, Matthews are all four star recruits that came to MU because of Wade... because we made it to the Final Four.  Once these players leave, what now?  Crean has to figure that out because there is seems to be no plan.  We have no four star recruits coming in and this year's freshmen probably played for a combined 5 minutes per game.  

So we have to hope for a good future at this point.  I pray Crean can focus on inproving Burke and Mbawke so that they become solid players.  And next year, Christoperson can get some meaningful minutes and we can see how good of a shooter he really is.  Lord knows MU needs a solid jump shooter.  I know it sound scary, but next year is important is finding out how Crean will move past the TRUE end of the Wade era.

Peace out.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If TC leaves, my first call is to Tony Bennett.  Mark Turgeon & Kevin Stallings would be on my list.  I'd even call Bruce Pearl.

I don't think people realize how much of a good thing TC has here at MU.  The basketball coach is god except with more power and better pay. 

When you add up practice facilities, salary, low maintenance AD, recruiting budget, budget for assistants and support staff, you'll find that this is a pretty good job.  It's 10 times the job it was when Crean took it in 1999.  Thanks in large part to him.  And the best part is no expectations, you can go 5 years in between tourney wins and get relatively little heat.   
Therefore, he has earned the right to keep building the program in a steady fashion instead of the "win now or get out" attitude that so many universities and/or alumni seem to have.


FIXED YOUR POST.

[The Lens]

If TC leaves, my first call is to Tony Bennett.  Mark Turgeon & Kevin Stallings would be on my list.  I'd even call Bruce Pearl.

I don't think people realize how much of a good thing TC has here at MU.  The basketball coach is god except with more power and better pay. 

When you add up practice facilities, salary, low maintenance AD, recruiting budget, budget for assistants and support staff, you'll find that this is a pretty good job.  It's 10 times the job it was when Crean took it in 1999.  Thanks in large part to him.  And the best part is no expectations, you can go 5 years in between tourney wins and get relatively little heat.  
Therefore, he has earned the right to keep building the program in a steady fashion instead of the "win now or get out" attitude that so many universities and/or alumni seem to have.


FIXED YOUR POST.

The post was in response to if TC left not if he was run off. 

[nyg]

Bring back the bumble-bee uniforms, who cares about their legality.  The older alumni will be happy, the recent alumni can't complain about the new uniform's fonts and the recruits will come. 

[BuzzSucksSucks]

Not only has TC done, and is doing, what no one else could, he's twice as good at what he does than we are at what we do.  He's a motivator, he's a winner, and he's chosen to pour himself into this program, and we should be grateful.  It's not just the wins, but it's the way they play and the way our guys handle themselves.  I'm proud of these guys, and because of TC, what one might hope to get back from an alma mater we're getting in spades.    

[mugrack]

I'm sure those hot candidates like Mike Deane and Bob Dukiet would love to be offered the MU job again.  They are coaching in some Jr. High now they were soooooo hot.  Crean is the best thing for MU.