2024-25 NBA Thread

[Pakuni]

Not the Patrick Williams $90M deal also?

It's fine. He's going to be something like the 120th highest paid player in the league next year.

[WhiteTrash]

It's fine. He's going to be something like the 120th highest paid player in the league next year.

LOL. I'd be shocked if even the Bulls' GM thought it was "fine".

I can follow the logic of saying good teams can overcome awful contracts. Maybe that was your point?

[Pakuni]

LOL. I'd be shocked if even the Bulls' GM thought it was "fine".

I can follow the logic of saying good teams can overcome awful contracts. Maybe that was your point?

It's fine if Patrick Williams is paid as the 120th best player in the league. It's an overpay, but only account for about 11% of the team's cap.
If Williams' deal was this front office's worst decision, they'd be a great front office.

[WhiteTrash]

It's fine if Patrick Williams is paid as the 120th best player in the league. It's an overpay, but only account for about 11% of the team's cap.
If Williams' deal was this front office's worst decision, they'd be a great front office.

That is true.
And maybe, just maybe, Williams can develop into a top 150 player, but he seems to have found his level as the 2nd or 3rd guy off the bench on a bad team.

[MuggsyB]

Morant is ridiculously talented.  I guess his new celebration is "the grenade"? I wonder why he doesn't just hoop?  Gesturing after every bucket is bizarre to me. 

[cheebs09]

Morant is ridiculously talented.  I guess his new celebration is "the grenade"? I wonder why he doesn't just hoop?  Gesturing after every bucket is bizarre to me. 

Since they don't play defense, they have more time to celebrate.

ETA: I'm not sure how anyone could say the 3 goggles were not fun.

[forgetful]

Leading scorer, second leading rebounder, second in assists that year.  He also led the team in shot attempts when Curry took a step back in attempts (his lowest FGA/G of his career since he became a starter) cause KD was the guy.  Mind you, this was Steph 2 years off of an MVP year too.

KD was an absolute monster in the playoffs.  Had a win share double that of Curry in those playoffs and was the best player in the WCF against the near unanimous MVP in Harden.  KD averaged more points and rebounds than him while shooting 49/40/92 for the series while Harden was an inefficient mess trying to keep up and shooting 25% from 3.

These types of analyses are kind of fruitless, they operate on data divorced from the actual situations. It is a data-driven analysis, not a data-informed analysis.

Durant was great. But those were Curry's teams. What the analysis ignores, is how much Durant benefitted from playing opposite Curry. There is no player in the NBA that draws more defensive focus than Curry. That is a huge benefit to other offensive players and Durant.

It is one of the reasons Durant has not had the same success on other teams.

And Durant is amazing, don't get me wrong. Curry is just unique.

[wadesworld]

These types of analyses are kind of fruitless, they operate on data divorced from the actual situations. It is a data-driven analysis, not a data-informed analysis.

Durant was great. But those were Curry's teams. What the analysis ignores, is how much Durant benefitted from playing opposite Curry. There is no player in the NBA that draws more defensive focus than Curry. That is a huge benefit to other offensive players and Durant.

It is one of the reasons Durant has not had the same success on other teams.

And Durant is amazing, don't get me wrong. Curry is just unique.

Durant's numbers were down in his time with Golden State, especially compared to his peak. He finished top 2 in MVP voting in four out of 5 years from 2010-2014, then was injured for a year, then was 5th in MVP voting in his last season with the Thunder. The guy is one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game and incredibly efficient. I mean, he's 36 years old having had multiple serious injuries and he's averaging 27 ppg on 53% from the field and 43% from 3 this year. In his 17 year career he averages 27 points per game on 50% from the field and 39% from 3. He fits into any offensive scheme and with any player/type of player. The idea that KD was so good because Steph made his life so easy is insane. He averaged under his career average all 3 years he was on the Warriors.

[MU82]

Amazing chart from Yahoo Sports about Jokic's supporting casts over the years ...



From Yahoo Sports:

This will sound made up but I promise it's not: Jokić has never played alongside a single teammate who was named an All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defensive player that season. That's not just unfathomable; it's unprecedented.

‌He's the only one of the last 24 MVPs, dating back to Moses Malone in 1983, who's never had an All-League teammate through their first 10 years in the NBA.

The other 23 MVPs in that time averaged 16 such teammates, led by Magic Johnson with 35. Just five of them even had fewer than 10; Jokić has had zero.

The KG comp: Kevin Garnett is the only player in the chart above in the same vicinity as Jokić, having had just four All-League teammates during his first 10 seasons in Minnesota. After his 12th, Garnett demanded a trade to Boston, where he immediately won a ring alongside Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo — talent commensurate with his.

‌Jokić, of course, already has a ring, and perhaps Denver's 2023 championship provided the Nuggets with some credibility that their strategy works.

But in reality, they won despite Jokić's supporting cast, not because of it, lest we forget that he became the first player in NBA history to lead all postseason players in points, rebounds and assists.

This season is no exception.

Jokic is contending with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in the MVP race this season, but his best argument for the hardware is buttressed by how terrible his supporting cast is.

When SGA has been off the floor, the Thunder have outscored opponents by 75 points across 1,199 minutes. When Jokić has been off the floor? The Nuggets have *lost* by a whopping 252 points in 1,366 minutes.

[wadesworld]

Amazing chart from Yahoo Sports about Jokic's supporting casts over the years ...



From Yahoo Sports:

This will sound made up but I promise it's not: Jokić has never played alongside a single teammate who was named an All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defensive player that season. That's not just unfathomable; it's unprecedented.

‌He's the only one of the last 24 MVPs, dating back to Moses Malone in 1983, who's never had an All-League teammate through their first 10 years in the NBA.

The other 23 MVPs in that time averaged 16 such teammates, led by Magic Johnson with 35. Just five of them even had fewer than 10; Jokić has had zero.

The KG comp: Kevin Garnett is the only player in the chart above in the same vicinity as Jokić, having had just four All-League teammates during his first 10 seasons in Minnesota. After his 12th, Garnett demanded a trade to Boston, where he immediately won a ring alongside Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo — talent commensurate with his.

‌Jokić, of course, already has a ring, and perhaps Denver's 2023 championship provided the Nuggets with some credibility that their strategy works.

But in reality, they won despite Jokić's supporting cast, not because of it, lest we forget that he became the first player in NBA history to lead all postseason players in points, rebounds and assists.

This season is no exception.

Jokic is contending with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in the MVP race this season, but his best argument for the hardware is buttressed by how terrible his supporting cast is.

When SGA has been off the floor, the Thunder have outscored opponents by 75 points across 1,199 minutes. When Jokić has been off the floor? The Nuggets have *lost* by a whopping 252 points in 1,366 minutes.

This is wrong.  KD's supporting cast is unlike anything we've ever seen.

[Skatastrophy]

This is wrong.  KD's supporting cast is unlike anything we've ever seen.

I bet your wife rolls her eyes at you, frequently.

[MU82]

I'm one of the first to roll my eyes when someone says their local NBA team is so bad it would lose to a great college team, but ...

I think Florida, Houston or Duke would give a hell of a game to the outfit that the Hornets threw on the floor today.

[GB Warrior]

If the Bucks rehire Bud does that cut into what we owe him?

[Jockey]

Durant's numbers were down in his time with Golden State, especially compared to his peak. He finished top 2 in MVP voting in four out of 5 years from 2010-2014, then was injured for a year, then was 5th in MVP voting in his last season with the Thunder. The guy is one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game and incredibly efficient. I mean, he's 36 years old having had multiple serious injuries and he's averaging 27 ppg on 53% from the field and 43% from 3 this year. In his 17 year career he averages 27 points per game on 50% from the field and 39% from 3. He fits into any offensive scheme and with any player/type of player. The idea that KD was so good because Steph made his life so easy is insane. He averaged under his career average all 3 years he was on the Warriors.

Of course nobody said that.

[MuggsyB]

Amazing chart from Yahoo Sports about Jokic's supporting casts over the years ...



From Yahoo Sports:

This will sound made up but I promise it's not: Jokić has never played alongside a single teammate who was named an All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defensive player that season. That's not just unfathomable; it's unprecedented.

‌He's the only one of the last 24 MVPs, dating back to Moses Malone in 1983, who's never had an All-League teammate through their first 10 years in the NBA.

The other 23 MVPs in that time averaged 16 such teammates, led by Magic Johnson with 35. Just five of them even had fewer than 10; Jokić has had zero.

The KG comp: Kevin Garnett is the only player in the chart above in the same vicinity as Jokić, having had just four All-League teammates during his first 10 seasons in Minnesota. After his 12th, Garnett demanded a trade to Boston, where he immediately won a ring alongside Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo — talent commensurate with his.

‌Jokić, of course, already has a ring, and perhaps Denver's 2023 championship provided the Nuggets with some credibility that their strategy works.

But in reality, they won despite Jokić's supporting cast, not because of it, lest we forget that he became the first player in NBA history to lead all postseason players in points, rebounds and assists.

This season is no exception.

Jokic is contending with Shai Gilgeous-Alexander in the MVP race this season, but his best argument for the hardware is buttressed by how terrible his supporting cast is.

When SGA has been off the floor, the Thunder have outscored opponents by 75 points across 1,199 minutes. When Jokić has been off the floor? The Nuggets have *lost* by a whopping 252 points in 1,366 minutes.

Murray has had big playoff performances.  That said, your points are definitely valid.  I think Nikola is by far the best player in the league.

[cheebs09]

Sounds like some optimism that Dame could return at some point during the playoffs. Granted, not sure the Bucks will make it far enough to give him that time.

[GB Warrior]

Sounds like some optimism that Dame could return at some point during the playoffs. Granted, not sure the Bucks will make it far enough to give him that time.

 I heard that last year and you cannot hurt me again

[BM1090]

I heard that last year and you cannot hurt me again

Fair. This team is in a lot better spot than last year's though. Better role players, better depth, and guys understand their roles. All with Giannis playing at a top level.

[wadesworld]

Fair. This team is in a lot better spot than last year's though. Better role players, better depth, and guys understand their roles. All with Giannis playing at a top level.

Eh.  I'm not convinced they are better.  They're 11th in offensive rating and 12th in defensive rating.  48-34.  Finished 49-33 last year, 6th in offensive rating and 19th in defensive rating.  Offensive was worse because Dame and Bobby missed a lot of games, but defensive was better because Dame and Bobby missed a lot of games.

Dame is a net neutral.  Obviously talented offensively, but when you have him and Giannis both on the court the ball (and player) movement completely stops.  Both guys love to dribble the air out of the ball.  He's also a 5'9" guard who doesn't even pretend to try defensively.  I've said for a while now, if you want to take a bad team and turn them into a Playoff team you take Dame.  If you are a Playoff team and want to turn them into a title contender you take Jrue all day.

The only hope is Giannis completely carries the Bucks in the Playoffs.  He's capable of it, but he hasn't been able to stay healthy in the Playoffs.

[Jockey]

Dame is a net neutral.  Obviously talented offensively, but when you have him and Giannis both on the court the ball (and player) movement completely stops.  Both guys love to dribble the air out of the ball.  He's also a 5'9" guard who doesn't even pretend to try defensively.  I've said for a while now, if you want to take a bad team and turn them into a Playoff team you take Dame.  If you are a Playoff team and want to turn them into a title contender you take Jrue all day.

Well Said.

[MuggsyB]

Did you see that?  Curry is absolutely ridiculous. 

[MuggsyB]

Memphis is getting an absurd whistle in this game. 

[MuggsyB]

Apparently defense is optional for the Chicago Bulls?

[WhiteTrash]

Apparently defense is optional for the Chicago Bulls?

And they've opted out.

[MuggsyB]

And they've opted out.

And they've opted out.

Matas has potential.