What is our all-time 12?

[muwarrior97]

So was Oliver Lee.

hahaha!!

y'all know I'm talking Big Dog Tony Miller & Butch Lee.....I'm old!

[PJDunn]

More Mandy Johnson, less Doc Rivers. Rivers was a great pro and certainly a wonderful representative of the University, but he was decidedly uneven at MU. IMO he should not be up in the rafters. Not even close.

[MU82]

Disappointed by the lack of sneaky athleticism with this squad.

And only ONE Hauser? WTF?

[The Sultan]

More Mandy Johnson, less Doc Rivers. Rivers was a great pro and certainly a wonderful representative of the University, but he was decidedly uneven at MU. IMO he should not be up in the rafters. Not even close.

Mandy Johnson? Good lord I liked the guy, but he's not all time top 12.

(I agree that Doc isn't either BTW)

[Elonsmusk]

Terry Rand > Kojis

Diener statistically > Kolek > Meminger.  And it's not really even close.

Sure, but Travis put up numbers playing in Conference USA - the 9th best conference and 8th best conferences his Senior and Junior years, respectively.  Further, his teams finished 98 and 92 in KenPom during those years.

Here's a controversial take:  Diener would be a bench player on each of our teams these last two years.  The game is SO much more phyiscal now than at that time, Travis would have a hard time being anything more than a 6th/7th man in the current high major landscape

[wadesworld]

Sure, but Travis put up numbers playing in Conference USA - the 9th best conference and 8th best conferences his Senior and Junior years, respectively.  Further, his teams finished 98 and 92 in KenPom during those years.

Here's a controversial take:  Diener would be a bench player on each of our teams these last two years.  The game is SO much more phyiscal now than at that time, Travis would have a hard time being anything more than a 6th/7th man in the current high major landscape

Yeah, that's a WILD take.  Diener was as tough as they come.  Diener was tough enough to make millions in the NBA, including a year where he averaged 7 points per game and played 21 minutes per game when NBA defenses were allowed to be much more physical than they are now.  He'd be JUST fine in today's college game, and would've been a sure fire starter the last 2 years.  I love Stevie and Kam, but give me Diener and Kolek both on the court together any day of the week.

[The Sultan]

Yeah, Travis would be absolutely fine in college basketball today. It's insane to think otherwise.

[Pakuni]

Sure, but Travis put up numbers playing in Conference USA - the 9th best conference and 8th best conferences his Senior and Junior years, respectively.  Further, his teams finished 98 and 92 in KenPom during those years.

Here's a controversial take:  Diener would be a bench player on each of our teams these last two years.  The game is SO much more phyiscal now than at that time, Travis would have a hard time being anything more than a 6th/7th man in the current high major landscape

Travis Diener played five seasons in the NBA, but couldn't have handled the physicality of today's college basketball?
Huh.

[Elonsmusk]

Yeah, that's a WILD take.  Diener was as tough as they come.  Diener was tough enough to make millions in the NBA, including a year where he averaged 7 points per game and played 21 minutes per game when NBA defenses were allowed to be much more physical than they are now.  He'd be JUST fine in today's college game, and would've been a sure fire starter the last 2 years.  I love Stevie and Kam, but give me Diener and Kolek both on the court together any day of the week.

You, Sultan and Pak are well justified in your opinions on my controversial take.  It is fun to think about a Diener/Kolek pairing on the floor together.  I do tend to think, however, that the physical strength of basketbal players now, 20 years later since Diener played - would challenge him a good deal.  The kid was 170 lbs soaking wet at MU.  He'd get abused on defense these days.

[oldwarrior81]

And he played in the 1950s

Hard to ignore that back then the amount of rebounds in a game was near 100.     Today, those rebounds are down to about 65 per game.
If using that ratio, 12 rebounds back then, would be close to 8 per game in todays game.

[Lennys Tap]

My all-time 12

Kojis - played the right way
Diener - son of a coach, you could tell
Kolek - gym rat
Novak - great at neighborhood watch
Rosenberger - high IQ player
Wardle - great attitude
Hauser - either one, leadership unmatched
McIlvaine - farmer
Pieper - gym rat
Crawford - see Pieper
Allie - coaches son and gym rat
Jake Thomas - pure shooter

Bill Neary
Gary Rosenberger
Jimmy Boylan
Jimmy Burke
Jackie Burke
Gary Brell
Brian Brunkhorst
Bob Wolf
Jeff Sewell
Brad Luchini
Ron Rahn
Hughie McMahon
Jim Dudley
Dave Delsman
Jerry Holman
Marc Marotta
Cam Marotta
Dan Fitzgerald
Terrell Schlundt
Dean Marquette
Craig Butrym
Chris Grimm
Mike Kinsella
Brian Barone
Ryan Amoroso
Don Smolinski
Vic Lazzeretti
Tom Copa
Mike Flory
Mark Anglavar
Robb Logterman
Jay Zulauf
Richard Shaw
Jarrod Lovette
Joe Nethen

[Uncle Rico]

Bill Neary
Gary Rosenberger
Jimmy Boylan
Jimmy Burke
Jackie Burke
Gary Brell
Brian Brunkhorst
Bob Wolf
Jeff Sewell
Brad Luchini
Ron Rahn
Hughie McMahon
Jim Dudley
Dave Delsman
Jerry Holman
Marc Marotta
Cam Marotta
Dan Fitzgerald
Terrell Schlundt
Dean Marquette
Craig Butrym
Chris Grimm
Mike Kinsella
Brian Barone
Ryan Amoroso
Don Smolinski
Vic Lazzeretti
Tom Copa
Mike Flory
Mark Anglavar
Robb Logterman
Jay Zulauf
Richard Shaw
Jarrod Lovette
Joe Nethen

Solid choices

[Goose]

Hey Lenny

No Matt Carlino?

[Uncle Rico]

Hey Lenny

No Matt Carlino?

Him and Katin Reinhardt were classic gym rats

[BLWarrior91]

No Rod Grosse?

[Goose]

Roman Mueller

[Sir Lawrence]

Anthony Pieper

[Goose]

Rick Campbell

[Goose]

Jon Luerck

[Sir Lawrence]

Mike Kinsella

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Greg Clausen

[Lennys Tap]

Hey Lenny

No Matt Carlino?

One year rental, not an all timer.

But the guy could shoot it and he came from a great family!

[tower912]

Pat Foley.
Mike Davis.

[BLWarrior91]

Andrew Rousey
Chris Crawford

[Dr. Blackheart]

John Glaser