Bluejays SOTG

[mileskishnish72]

Yep. According to the NCAA stats manual, that's exactly how it is credited.

"An individual rebound (player rebound) is credited to a player who recovers a live ball that has missed scoring a goal (field goal or free throw). The recovery may be accomplished:

(1) By gaining control of the ball.
(2) By tipping or batting the ball in an attempt to score a goal.
(3) By tipping or batting the ball to a teammate so that the teammate or another teammate is the first to gain control.
(4) By retrieving a rebound simultaneously with an opposing player and having his or her own team be the first to be entitled to the ball."

Re: #4 - two guys (on different teams) get a rebound simultaneously. Tie-up, "jump ball." So one player gets credit for a rebound because his team has the arrow?

[Stretchdeltsig]

Sean led the turmoil defense that broke Creighton us momentum.

[21Jumpstreet]

Dude. I know he was back on defense. He was mentally still caught up on his dunk. He was an absolute turn style on that play. Your point makes it worse. He was back, and just let the guy go to the basket with zero resistance.  Watch the immediate aftermath, Kolek kind of looked at him like WTF? 


Look, Jop hit 2 huge shots and those were clutch.  He just got a little carried away in the moment and I have no doubt Shaka will point it out and Jop learns from it.

Jop is the biggest X-factor for this team. If he's good we are really good. But, Sean Jones very well may become the X-Factor. He is a disruptor.

This is why I chose Jop. To me the SOTG is the X factor or someone that plays a level above their norm. Of course, Tyler can be chosen every game, but I prefer to give my nod to the difference maker. Also, pretty sure Shaka yelled "wtf are you thinking" to Jop after the ole defense as he walked to the time out huddle. Loved the celebration w Jae, did not love that he had a mental lapse. Jop, still my choice.

[panda]

Please see attached.

Unfathomably poor court awareness from oso as he's obstructing Jop's movement while kalkbrenner is 45 feet from the basket.

[Elonsmusk]

Why are you putting "rebounds" in parantheses? You're not bringing back "easy assists/rebounds" again are you? 2nd most offensive boards in a game in program history. 9th most total rebounds in a game in program history. Both studly numbers and more than make up for a poor shooting night IMHO. And Oso deserves a lot more than "some" credit for negating Kalkbrenner on offense and keeping him off the glass.

As for the rest, you and I have different criteria for "stud" which is fine. Your criteria I would categorize more as being the "spark of the game", he made the most of a smaller amount of playing time. I think Oso and Kolek impacted the game a lot more overall.

Yes, I'm not going to value back tap "rebounds" the same as physically securing the ball personally, as at best it's maybe a 65/35 odds the backtap will be corraled by our team.  And yes, there are easy assists in basketball and Derrick Wilson was the epitome of highlighting the concept of easy assists (doing nothing to create a good look, but getting an assist by virtue of executing a 5th grade basketball level chest pass to a teammate who makes the basket), versus the kind you see Tyler Kolek make for this team.

We can argue all day long about would we have won this game if Oso didn't play or Sean didn't play - the answer would be no in both cases.  However, takeaway Sean Jones performance today and we are absolutely boatraced even with Oso playing. 

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I think people are overrating Oso's defense from yesterday.  Sure, he played good defense but his teammates gave him great support.

The ball pressure from all 5 guards was swarming.  They made entry passes very difficult.  They cut off driving lanes, which allowed Oso to stay home on Kalk.  And did a great job timing their double teams.

So while Oso played well on defense, I really view the team defense as the star.

[Goose]

Lenny

Sean and Joplin played a big role in the game and they were needed big time. That said, no TK or Oso and their performances would have been in a loss. Not to diminish what they did, but a number of guys could have provided that spark if given a chance. A number of guys were not replacing TK and Oso yesterday.

[The Sultan]

Yes, I'm not going to value back tap "rebounds" the same as physically securing the ball personally, as at best it's maybe a 65/35 odds the backtap will be corraled by our team.  And yes, there are easy assists in basketball and Derrick Wilson was the epitome of highlighting the concept of easy assists (doing nothing to create a good look, but getting an assist by virtue of executing a 5th grade basketball level chest pass to a teammate who makes the basket), versus the kind you see Tyler Kolek make for this team.

We can argue all day long about would we have won this game if Oso didn't play or Sean didn't play - the answer would be no in both cases.  However, takeaway Sean Jones performance today and we are absolutely boatraced even with Oso playing. 

You realize that a back tap is only counted as a rebound if a Marquette player controls it right?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Lenny

Sean and Joplin played a big role in the game and they were needed big time. That said, no TK or Oso and their performances would have been in a loss. Not to diminish what they did, but a number of guys could have provided that spark if given a chance. A number of guys were not replacing TK and Oso yesterday.

I mean you can pretty much say that about everyone yesterday.  Which is why the same was so satisfying. 

[Elonsmusk]

You realize that a back tap is only counted as a rebound if a Marquette player controls it right?

Of course. The back tap is probably our team's best offensive rebounding strategy, yet my point was it's probably a 65/35 maybe 70/30 at absolute best odds to control the rebound.

So, our hope is that we can corral the backtap and it has been said hope isn't a strategy...but due to our team being undersized it is our best strategy, and Oso did a great job yesterday on the back taps. Will be interesting to see if going forward this is how Oso is instructed to pursue going after offensive rebounds.

[warriorchick]

Of course. The back tap is probably our team's best offensive rebounding strategy, yet my point was it's probably a 65/35 maybe 70/30 at absolute best odds to control the rebound.

So, our hope is that we can corral the backtap and it has been said hope isn't a strategy...but due to our team being undersized it is our best strategy, and Oso did a great job yesterday on the back taps. Will be interesting to see if going forward this is how Oso is instructed to pursue going after offensive rebounds.

So I guess if Oso can swat the ball, but not actually gain control of it, better to just back off and let the opposing player have it.

[MU82]

This is why I chose Jop. To me the SOTG is the X factor or someone that plays a level above their norm. Of course, Tyler can be chosen every game, but I prefer to give my nod to the difference maker. Also, pretty sure Shaka yelled "wtf are you thinking" to Jop after the ole defense as he walked to the time out huddle. Loved the celebration w Jae, did not love that he had a mental lapse. Jop, still my choice.

I always appreciate your positive and optimistic takes, 21J. However, the stud is the stud. If it were the X-factor award, it would be the XFoG. If it were the guy who plays above his norm award, it would be the GWPAHNoG.

Given how the game unfolded, I can understand why some here are choosing Sean. Maybe rocky will even choose him. But one can argue pretty easily that he wasn't the Stud of the Game.

Oso and Kolek battled for 35+ minutes each and profoundly affected that game with what they provided. Pretty studly.

[Elonsmusk]

So I guess if Oso can swat the ball, but not actually gain control of it, better to just back off and let the opposing player have it.

How did you arrive at this conclusion from my post?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Sean

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes, I'm not going to value back tap "rebounds" the same as physically securing the ball personally, as at best it's maybe a 65/35 odds the backtap will be corraled by our team.

So they are rebounds, not "rebounds", yes? And they only count if he taps them to a teammate. Watch the game again, Oso isn't swatting and praying that it goes to a teammate. Most of those are intentional hits to open players. Several of which gave us a wide open three attempt or allowed us to initiate the offense while the defense was still scrambling. Could be argued that those are more valuable when successful. Either way, it's a rebound and has always been a rebound.

However, takeaway Sean Jones performance today and we are absolutely boatraced even with Oso playing. 

In the first half, Sean checked in and we were down 9. When he checked out, we were down 9.

In the second half, Sean checked in when we were down 1. And when he went out, we were winning by 4. He helped us extend the lead by 5. Which is great! But I don't see the math for "we get absolutely boatraced" without him. I don't know if we win without Sean yesterday. I think it would have been closer for sure. But I think a lack of Oso or a lack of Tyler would have been more likely to lead to a boatracing, just given how unique and difficult to replace they are.

Sean had the best 8 minutes (he played 5 minutes in the first, 8 in the second) of anyone on the floor yesterday. It was such a good eight minutes, that I think he was a third most impactful player. But there's only so much impact you can have when you play in less than a third of the game. On a per minute basis, Sean was the best player. That's not how I judge SOTG (which again, is a meaningless award argued about by internet dweebs and chose by a moderator who probably won't remember to decide until 5 minutes before the next game). Internet dweebs are allowed to have different criteria.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny

Sean and Joplin played a big role in the game and they were needed big time. That said, no TK or Oso and their performances would have been in a loss. Not to diminish what they did, but a number of guys could have provided that spark if given a chance. A number of guys were not replacing TK and Oso yesterday.

Yep. They are the straws that stir the drink.

[MU82]

So they are rebounds, not "rebounds", yes? And they only count if he taps them to a teammate. Watch the game again, Oso isn't swatting and praying that it goes to a teammate. Most of those are intentional hits to open players. Several of which gave us a wide open three attempt or allowed us to initiate the offense while the defense was still scrambling. Could be argued that those are more valuable when successful. Either way, it's a rebound and has always been a rebound.

In the first half, Sean checked in and we were down 9. When he checked out, we were down 9.

In the second half, Sean checked in when we were down 1. And when he went out, we were winning by 4. He helped us extend the lead by 5. Which is great! But I don't see the math for "we get absolutely boatraced" without him. I don't know if we win without Sean yesterday. I think it would have been closer for sure. But I think a lack of Oso or a lack of Tyler would have been more likely to lead to a boatracing, just given how unique and difficult to replace they are.

Sean had the best 8 minutes (he played 5 minutes in the first, 8 in the second) of anyone on the floor yesterday. It was such a good eight minutes, that I think he was a third most impactful player. But there's only so much impact you can have when you play in less than a third of the game. On a per minute basis, Sean was the best player. That's not how I judge SOTG (which again, is a meaningless award argued about by internet dweebs and chose by a moderator who probably won't remember to decide until 5 minutes before the next game). Internet dweebs are allowed to have different criteria.

Good facts, you dweeb!

[wadesworld]

I think people are overrating Oso's defense from yesterday.  Sure, he played good defense but his teammates gave him great support.

The ball pressure from all 5 guards was swarming.  They made entry passes very difficult.  They cut off driving lanes, which allowed Oso to stay home on Kalk.  And did a great job timing their double teams.

So while Oso played well on defense, I really view the team defense as the star.

The team defense was great. But Oso was certainly not just sitting down low banging with Kalk while the guards did the perimeter work. Oso is constantly switching onto guards, and he keeps them out on the perimeter and pressures them so they can't take advantage of the mismatch down low, not letting the guard make the entry pass or blow by him.

For my money, he might be the best all around defensive players I've seen all year in college basketball.

[MU82]

"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart

Meh ... what does he know?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

The team defense was great. But Oso was certainly not just sitting down low banging with Kalk while the guards did the perimeter work. Oso is constantly switching onto guards, and he keeps them out on the perimeter and pressures them so they can't take advantage of the mismatch down low, not letting the guard make the entry pass or blow by him.

For my money, he might be the best all around defensive players I've seen all year in college basketball.

Oso is our best, and most important, defender overall. But on Saturday, I thought he was merely our 4th best defender.  Chase, Tyler, and Sean were super disruptive.  Oso's defense was good, just not as good as the others IMO.

[Elonsmusk]

"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart

Meh ... what does he know?

You think Shaka will award Oso "Domino of the game?"  I'll wager it goes to Sean.  You want Oso?  $50 to charity of winners choice. 

[Newsdreams]

"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart

Meh ... what does he know?

The easy variety.

[The Sultan]

You think Shaka will award Oso "Domino of the game?"  I'll wager it goes to Sean.  You want Oso?  $50 to charity of winners choice. 

1. The criteria for Shaka's Domino of the Game might be different than Scoop's Stud of the Game.

2. This debate has reached epic levels of silliness.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Oso should win.

16 boards. and 9 offensive.


(sean played flawlessly after his first possesion. But Creighton's gameplan was clearly to let him fire off shots)

If Oso boards like that more often than not rest of the way the boys are in fantastic shape.

[MU82]

You think Shaka will award Oso "Domino of the game?"  I'll wager it goes to Sean.  You want Oso?  $50 to charity of winners choice.

I don't bet on dopey things.

"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart

Shaka also lumped Sean's 3s in with Stevie's 3s as being important contributions.