Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Heisenberg]

Eliminating all terrorists is impossible. Specific terrorists not impossible. What takes their place, though? Completely eliminating lines of communication/negotiations does not work. History proves that.

Negotiate with whom? And for what?

Are you suggesting that haggle over how many Jews Hamas gets to kill every year?

If not, I'll ask again, what is there to talk about as Hamas cannot be more clear on what they want.

[Heisenberg]

That's a good question. We do not know the answer today. Hopefully we'll get a chance to find out in the not-too-distant future.

Winning is eliminating their ability to kill or threaten Israelis again.

No more rockets, no more killing Jews. When Gaza is unable to do this again, then Israel won.

[Heisenberg]

The only way you can defeat terrorism is to give people a more viable alternative.

Viable alternative = nation building.

When has that worked?  How are Iraq and Afghanistan going these days?

—-

The Israelis wants nothing to do with them? They just want to be left alone and not allow them to randomly kill Jews via rockets and terrorist attacks.

So, who is going to give them this viable alternative? How will this work?

[Heisenberg]

This is correct.

It's also correct you fight back against terrorism and try and defeat it.  Anyone expecting to eliminate it is simply naive.

The Russians did a pretty good job at eliminating the Chechnyan terrorist threat. You don't hear much about them killing people In Moscow anymore.

So, yes terrorism can be defeated and yes it is not pretty to eliminate it. See Grozny.

[Heisenberg]

People actually still having something to lose like their home and food on the table usually is a good start to slowing radicalization.

Or maybe buying them off is not the answer.

The UN and Europe tried to buy their acquiescence by giving them clean water for that table you mentioned via billions to build a viable water and sewer system. But that money was stolen for terrorism and the water pipes dug up and used to make rockets.

Maybe the problem is a radical religion that wants world domination and wants all the infelds dead.

If so, giving them free stuff is not going to make them give up their ideology.

[The Sultan]

Maybe the problem is a radical religion that wants world domination and wants all the infelds dead.

A simplistic description that shows a complete misunderstanding of the Islamic religion.

[The Sultan]

Viable alternative = nation building.

When has that worked?  How are Iraq and Afghanistan going these days?

I never said anything about "nation building." But supressed people, with no viable economic alternatives, are going to turn to violence. If Israel is going to occupy Gaza, then it has to invest in Gaza. Give people a better alternative.

What they can't do is treat people poorly just because they have the power to do so. This is why the settlement issue is so short sighted. Sure you can get some short-term political gains, but when you break agreements with people just because you can, that doesn't look to long term stability.

[The Sultan]

The Russians did a pretty good job at eliminating the Chechnyan terrorist threat. You don't hear much about them killing people In Moscow anymore.

So, yes terrorism can be defeated and yes it is not pretty to eliminate it. See Grozny.

But what did the Russians do after the Chechen Wars?  They eventually withdrew the army, left security to a local police force, and invested heavily into Grozny, to the point that it has pretty much recovered its pre-war population. They didn't wall it off and leave people with no hope in the future.  That's the point.

[Uncle Rico]

But what did the Russians do after the Chechen Wars?  They eventually withdrew the army, left security to a local police force, and invested heavily into Grozny, to the point that it has pretty much recovered its pre-war population. They didn't wall it off and leave people with no hope in the future.  That's the point.

Let's not kid ourselves, the replacement in Chechnya was hardly an improvement for Chechnya

[Uncle Rico]

I heard Obama's black preacher was the problem.

No, Obama being black was the problem

[4everwarriors]

Hearin' he's Muslim, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

Hearin' he's Muslim, hey?

Barack Hussein Obama

[rocket surgeon]

No, Obama being black was the problem

hussein did nothing for "his"  people and still hangs with the rich honkies, well he might have secret beers with his old bud louis

[Uncle Rico]

hussein did nothing for "his"  people and still hangs with the rich honkies, well he might have secret beers with his old bud louis

9 out of 10

Hope Jop doesn't transfer to Wisconsin

[Heisenberg]

I never said anything about "nation building." But supressed people, with no viable economic alternatives, are going to turn to violence. If Israel is going to occupy Gaza, then it has to invest in Gaza. Give people a better alternative.

What they can't do is treat people poorly just because they have the power to do so. This is why the settlement issue is so short sighted. Sure you can get some short-term political gains, but when you break agreements with people just because you can, that doesn't look to long term stability.

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They forcibly removed every Jew and even Jewish remains.

Effectively Gaza became that second state of a two state solution.

The world poured in billions. They gave the Gazans the ability to elect their own leadership.

In other words, the gave them sovereignty, money, and control of their destiny.

And look what they turned it into in just 18 years.



So now they are going to try another approach, make them unable to be a threat ever again. And Israel has the resolve to follow through... and they don't care what the rest of the world thinks.

[Heisenberg]

Let's not kid ourselves, the replacement in Chechnya was hardly an improvement for Chechnya

But they are not slaughtering people in theaters in Moscow anymore.

[Heisenberg]

A simplistic description that shows a complete misunderstanding of the Islamic religion.

Or your worldview does not want to accept what radical Islam does in the name of Allah.

[The Sultan]

Or your worldview does not want to accept what radical Islam does in the name of Allah.

"Radical Islam" sure. But radical Islam doesn't come close to representing the majority of Muslims. Just like Sinn Fein doesn't represent the majority of Catholics.

[Uncle Rico]

But they are not slaughtering people in theaters in Moscow anymore.

No, they're just getting slaughtered by their leaders

[The Sultan]

Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. They forcibly removed every Jew and even Jewish remains.

Effectively Gaza became that second state of a two state solution.

The world poured in billions. They gave the Gazans the ability to elect their own leadership.

In other words, the gave them sovereignty, money, and control of their destiny.

And look what they turned it into in just 18 years.



So now they are going to try another approach, make them unable to be a threat ever again. And Israel has the resolve to follow through... and they don't care what the rest of the world thinks.

The world did not "pour in billions" to Gaza. They've continued to support Hamas. There's a difference.

And Israel's current approach will not solve the problem. Simple people (like yourself) see simple solutions to complex problems. It makes it easier for you to be black and white about everything. But it's has really never been the right approach and it won't be now.

[reinko]

hussein did nothing for "his"  people and still hangs with the rich honkies, well he might have secret beers with his old bud louis

Jesus Christ

[Heisenberg]

"Radical Islam" sure. But radical Islam doesn't come close to representing the majority of Muslims. Just like Sinn Fein doesn't represent the majority of Catholics.

But radical, Islam, and Hamas, is a big problem in Gaza, causing a big problem for Israel. And that must be an eliminated.

Sinn Fein, and the IRA, was a big problem in Northern Ireland for the UK. The British had to eliminate that problem too.


Eventually, the IRA was willing to negotiate a peace, and the no longer blow up buildings in London.

Hamas is not interested in peace, and even again this week promised to kill every Jew in Israel.

So the threat exists and Israel will not stop until they no longer pose a threat.

[Heisenberg]

The world did not "pour in billions" to Gaza. They've continued to support Hamas. There's a difference.

And Israel's current approach will not solve the problem. Simple people (like yourself) see simple solutions to complex problems. It makes it easier for you to be black and white about everything. But it's has really never been the right approach and it won't be now.

They are not trying to fix all the problems. They're trying to fix one problem, the ability to kill Jews indiscriminately and randomly.

After that the people of Gaza can do whatever they want behind their wall. But "whatever they want" will never again mean the ability to kill Jews.

[The Sultan]

But radical, Islam, and Hamas, is a big problem in Gaza, causing a big problem for Israel. And that must be an eliminated.

Sinn Fein, and the IRA, was a big problem in Northern Ireland for the UK. The British had to eliminate that problem too.


Eventually, the IRA was willing to negotiate a peace, and the no longer blow up buildings in London.

Hamas is not interested in peace, and even again this week promised to kill every Jew in Israel.

So the threat exists and Israel will not stop until they no longer pose a threat.

Do you even realize how quickly, and how often, you switch goalposts?

But yeah the problem is Hamas. Not a "radical religion that wants world domination and wants all the infelds (sp.) dead."

[The Sultan]

They are not trying to fix all the problems. They're trying to fix one problem, the ability to kill Jews indiscriminately and randomly.

After that the people of Gaza can do whatever they want behind their wall. But "whatever they want" will never again mean the ability to kill Jews.

That's what Israel thought on October 6. But keeping people walled off in a state of economic distress won't solve the problem. It never does.