Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

  calling for the mass murder/extinction of jews...please explain what context you can put this in to and NOT be anti-Semitic?

  yes, you can say it, scream it from the roof top, but it's still anti-Semitic

maybe they would better understand if there were people with white hoods on calling for the killing of all african americans.  or is there a context this would be cool as well?

Has anyone here questioned if calling for the mass murder/extinction of jews is antisemitic? I'm sure in some corner of the internet there are people doing that, but I think everyone here is in agreement that it is. The discussion I was having with Heisey is whether it is protected by the first amendment. Which as the university presidents' correctly stated, the answer is, "it depends". Honestly, most of the time, the answer is yes, it is protected by the first amendment.

As for your last statement, yes it would be the same if it were people in white hoods calling for the killing of all african americans. It would depend on the context and in most cases it would be protected by the first amendment.

[MuggsyB]

Has anyone here questioned if calling for the mass murder/extinction of jews is antisemitic? I'm sure in some corner of the internet there are people doing that, but I think everyone here is in agreement that it is. The discussion I was having with Heisey is whether it is protected by the first amendment. Which as the university presidents' correctly stated, the answer is, "it depends". Honestly, most of the time, the answer is yes, it is protected by the first amendment.

As for your last statement, yes it would be the same if it were people in white hoods calling for the killing of all african americans. It would depend on the context and in most cases it would be protected by the first amendment.

That's a separate issue from the code of conduct of these schools and whether they would tolerate it. 

[MuggsyB]

Rich Eisen diverged from sports today and went off on the three University Presidents inability to call out antisemitism.

He called them disgraceful and got pretty emotional and upset about it.

https://youtu.be/hKZp-YcD_Gg?si=0vIvOhCt9vsI3qgw

——-

Also, Sam Harris today - What is Islamophobia?

https://youtu.be/-fCiMQviTiw?si=XStL21LoTb5DTN8u

What is Islamophobia? Someone once said on the Internet, it's a word "invented by fascists and used by cowards to manipulate morons," and that's not far from the truth. There is no question that the term has been designed to confuse people. Its purpose is to conflate any criticism of Islam, which is a doctrine of religious beliefs, with bigotry against Muslims as people. In fact, it equates secularism itself—the commitment to keeping religion out of our laws and public policy—with hatred. The term is now being widely used in the mainstream media, and it is making it impossible to speak honestly about the consequences of dangerous ideas.

Pretty spot on and I essentially said this from day one.  When I stated Islam isn't a race I think Reeko wrongly insisted that it "basically is".  It's not, and Harris' synopsis is pretty hard to disagree with if you're rational. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's a separate issue from the code of conduct of tbese schools and whether they would tolerate it.

No it's not a separate issue. All of these universities (like the vast majority of private universities) have policies that guarantee that they will honor enrolled students' and employees' first amendment rights. They legally cannot have anything in their code of conduct that violates a student or employee's first amendment right. If they do, it is a breach of contract and they are legally liable. If any of these universities attempt to punish a student or employee for protected speech, they will end up paying that student or employee hundreds of thousands if not millions in damages. So unless you would like these universities to start directly funding antisemites, they cannot punish protected speech.

Calling on universities to punish protected speech is calling for something illegal, un-American, and frankly antisemitic (again, cause you are encouraging universities to directly fund antisemites).

[The Sultan]

Can you or your tweeter provide any example of a university "being quick to punish microaggerssions"? There might be one out there, but I'm not personally aware of it.

I asked you this same question about 45 pages ago. You gave me two examples that went to court and the courts sided with the universities and said they were in the right. Got any actual examples?

I pointed that straw man as well. Which of course Heisey ignored.

[Heisenberg]

Can you or your tweeter provide any example of a university "being quick to punish microaggerssions"? There might be one out there, but I'm not personally aware of it.

I asked you this same question about 45 pages ago. You gave me two examples that went to court and the courts sided with the universities and said they were in the right. Got any actual examples?

https://www.city-journal.org/article/harvards-double-standard-on-free-speech

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/ivy-league-hypocrisy-free-speech-activists-history-censorship

https://www.city-journal.org/article/double-standards-at-princeton

https://www.campusreform.org/article/1400-alumni-faculty-parents-accuse-yale-of-glaring-double-standard-ignoring-threats-against-jewish-students/24403

https://www.ncregister.com/news/does-georgetown-university-respect-free-speech

——

Regarding the tweeter, that would be Jonathan Haidt.

He wrote an entire book about microagessions

https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224897?nodl=1&dplnkId=84a5f16e-c34a-4cc8-9e90-d5d087766bbd


https://www.likevillepodcast.com/articles/2020/8/14/microaggressions-a-selection-from-greg-lukianoff-amp-jonathan-haidts-the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-2018

[Hards Alumni]

Pretty spot on and I essentially said this from day one.  When I stated Islam isn't a race I think Reeko wrongly insisted that it "basically is".  It's not, and Harris' synopsis is pretty hard to disagree with if you're rational.

Why does it matter if Islam isn't a race.

Go through Sam Harris' statement and replace the word Islamophobia with Antisemitism, and Islam/Muslim with Judaism/Jewish person and you'll see how truly stupid Sam is.

[Heisenberg]

Why does it matter if Islam isn't a race.

Go through Sam Harris' statement and replace the word Islamophobia with Antisemitism, and Islam/Muslim with Judaism/Jewish person and you'll see how truly stupid Sam is.

If you would listen to him, or read the transcript, you'd have a better idea of who is the stupid person here.

https://www.samharris.org/blog/what-is-islamophobia

There is no race of Muslims. Islam is a system of ideas, subscribed to by people of every race and ethnicity. It's just like Christianity in that regard. Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary faiths, and they win converts from everywhere. People criticize Christianity all the time and worry about its political and social influences—but no one confuses this for bigotry against Christians as people. There's no such thing as "Christophobia." If you criticize Christianity—and I've written an entire book excoriating Christianity—no one accuses you of being a racist against people from Brazil, or Mexico, or Ethiopia, or the Philippines. But even the New York Times will use the term "Islamophobia" as a synonym for racism against Arabs. This is pure delusion and propaganda. There are Christian Arabs. And I could become a Muslim in 5 minutes just by converting to the faith.

How does the term "antisemitism" differ as a concept? Well, we have a 2000-year-old tradition of religiously inspired hatred against Jews, courtesy of Christian theology. But for at least the last 150 years, or so, Jews have been thought of as a distinct race of people, both by those who hate them and, rather often, by Jews themselves. So antisemitism tends to be expressed as a specific form of racism. Antisemites are not focused on what Jews believe, or even on what they do on the basis of their beliefs. Modern antisemites, like Nazis, care about who your mother's mother's mother was. Just like racism, antisemitism has become a hatred of people, as people, not because of their beliefs or their behavior, but because of the mere circumstances of their birth.

[Uncle Rico]

Pretty spot on and I essentially said this from day one.  When I stated Islam isn't a race I think Reeko wrongly insisted that it "basically is".  It's not, and Harris' synopsis is pretty hard to disagree with if you're rational.

No, I didn't say that.  I'll accept your apology for your inaccurate and inflammatory statement.

[Hards Alumni]

If you would listen to him, or read the transcript, you'd have a better idea of who is the stupid person here.

https://www.samharris.org/blog/what-is-islamophobia

There is no race of Muslims. Islam is a system of ideas, subscribed to by people of every race and ethnicity. It's just like Christianity in that regard. Christianity and Islam are both aggressively missionary faiths, and they win converts from everywhere. People criticize Christianity all the time and worry about its political and social influences—but no one confuses this for bigotry against Christians as people. There's no such thing as "Christophobia." If you criticize Christianity—and I've written an entire book excoriating Christianity—no one accuses you of being a racist against people from Brazil, or Mexico, or Ethiopia, or the Philippines. But even the New York Times will use the term "Islamophobia" as a synonym for racism against Arabs. This is pure delusion and propaganda. There are Christian Arabs. And I could become a Muslim in 5 minutes just by converting to the faith.

How does the term "antisemitism" differ as a concept? Well, we have a 2000-year-old tradition of religiously inspired hatred against Jews, courtesy of Christian theology. But for at least the last 150 years, or so, Jews have been thought of as a distinct race of people, both by those who hate them and, rather often, by Jews themselves. So antisemitism tends to be expressed as a specific form of racism. Antisemites are not focused on what Jews believe, or even on what they do on the basis of their beliefs. Modern antisemites, like Nazis, care about who your mother's mother's mother was. Just like racism, antisemitism has become a hatred of people, as people, not because of their beliefs or their behavior, but because of the mere circumstances of their birth.

I'll save you some key strokes.  Sam Harris is an idiot, and isn't making a good point.

[Skatastrophy]

No, I didn't say that.  I'll accept your apology for your inaccurate and inflammatory statement.

Reek, reek it rhymes with leek.

[Uncle Rico]

Reek, reek it rhymes with leek.

Leeks have been part of a well-balanced diet for well over a millennia

[The Sultan]

https://www.city-journal.org/article/harvards-double-standard-on-free-speech

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/ivy-league-hypocrisy-free-speech-activists-history-censorship

https://www.city-journal.org/article/double-standards-at-princeton

https://www.campusreform.org/article/1400-alumni-faculty-parents-accuse-yale-of-glaring-double-standard-ignoring-threats-against-jewish-students/24403

https://www.ncregister.com/news/does-georgetown-university-respect-free-speech

——

Regarding the tweeter, that would be Jonathan Haidt.

He wrote an entire book about microagessions

https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224897?nodl=1&dplnkId=84a5f16e-c34a-4cc8-9e90-d5d087766bbd


https://www.likevillepodcast.com/articles/2020/8/14/microaggressions-a-selection-from-greg-lukianoff-amp-jonathan-haidts-the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-2018

LOL. So no examples of "universities being quick to punish microaggressions," just more of your culture war nonsense.

Not a serious person indeed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

https://www.city-journal.org/article/harvards-double-standard-on-free-speech

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/education/ivy-league-hypocrisy-free-speech-activists-history-censorship

https://www.city-journal.org/article/double-standards-at-princeton

https://www.campusreform.org/article/1400-alumni-faculty-parents-accuse-yale-of-glaring-double-standard-ignoring-threats-against-jewish-students/24403

https://www.ncregister.com/news/does-georgetown-university-respect-free-speech

——

Regarding the tweeter, that would be Jonathan Haidt.

He wrote an entire book about microagessions

https://www.amazon.com/Coddling-American-Mind-Intentions-Generation/dp/0735224897?nodl=1&dplnkId=84a5f16e-c34a-4cc8-9e90-d5d087766bbd


https://www.likevillepodcast.com/articles/2020/8/14/microaggressions-a-selection-from-greg-lukianoff-amp-jonathan-haidts-the-coddling-of-the-american-mind-2018

I read your five articles (did not read Haight's book). Unsurprisingly, they contain 0 examples of a university punishing someone for a microaggression. In fact, they contain few examples of anyone being punished (and the few examples were not in response to microagressions). One of the articles even focuses on a professor who was accused of wrongdoing and was cleared by the university.

What these articles detail is various examples of mostly students and a few employees using their free speech to denounce, protest, and call for punishment (which the university ignores) for employees whose speech they disagree with. This isn't punishment, this is more free speech. You can argue that some of these students and employees are being hypocritical "free speech for me but not for thee", but again, that's not the university punishing someone for a microaggression.

[MUBurrow]

I'll save you some key strokes.  Sam Harris is an idiot, and isn't making a good point.

So I definitely agree that the way he tries to classify Judaism and Islam as races vs religions is beyond sloppy.  But I also think that the sloppiness springs from a decent instinct.  To my ear he is trying to point out that as currently exemplified, Islamic political governance is incompatible with political stability that is rooted in Western liberalism.  I think his focus on race vs religion is his attempt to say "this isn't because Arabs, Persians, etc., are incapable of living in societies that privilege Western freedoms, but because they ascribe to a religion that is in the midst of a dogmatic struggle with itself to determine if it can co-exist with liberal values."  And I don't think any of that is wrong.  But again, I agree that the race vs religion label obscures the necessity of the underlying conversation (in no small part becuase everything Harris says has evolved into a preemptive jab at his critics). 

[MuggsyB]

No it's not a separate issue. All of these universities (like the vast majority of private universities) have policies that guarantee that they will honor enrolled students' and employees' first amendment rights. They legally cannot have anything in their code of conduct that violates a student or employee's first amendment right. If they do, it is a breach of contract and they are legally liable. If any of these universities attempt to punish a student or employee for protected speech, they will end up paying that student or employee hundreds of thousands if not millions in damages. So unless you would like these universities to start directly funding antisemites, they cannot punish protected speech.

Calling on universities to punish protected speech is calling for something illegal, un-American, and frankly antisemitic (again, cause you are encouraging universities to directly fund antisemites).

The 1st amendment protects hate speech but a University President or a employer or company can discipline someone who engages in these acts any way they choose. 

[MU82]

I read your five articles (did not read Haight's book). Unsurprisingly, they contain 0 examples of a university punishing someone for a microaggression. In fact, they contain few examples of anyone being punished (and the few examples were not in response to microagressions). One of the articles even focuses on a professor who was accused of wrongdoing and was cleared by the university.

What these articles detail is various examples of mostly students and a few employees using their free speech to denounce, protest, and call for punishment (which the university ignores) for employees whose speech they disagree with. This isn't punishment, this is more free speech. You can argue that some of these students and employees are being hypocritical "free speech for me but not for thee", but again, that's not the university punishing someone for a microaggression.

It's a Douchey Special. Just throw out a bunch of links that don't prove what you think they do, assume people won't open the links, and say, "See, I'm right."

Then, when called on it, just move onto the next topic (or next version of the same topic) and the next set of links. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Again, the bottom line of Douchey and his Doucheables here on Scoop:

College student says something antisemitic = raging antisemite. He or she should be kicked off campus, and should never, ever be able to be hired for any job by any company.

Grown-up with actual power and influence says something antisemitic or accepts support from antisemites = probably or definitely not an antisemite. I'll back his or her right to free speech; I'll twist myself into a pretzel to justify how his or her antisemitism isn't really antisemitism; and if he or she is a politician, I'll happily vote for him or her. 'Murica!

[4everwarriors]

They choose not to...pathetic, hey?

#fromtherivertothesea

[The Sultan]

The 1st amendment protects hate speech but a University President or a employer or company can discipline someone who engages in these acts any way they choose. 

Nope. Most public universities cannot restrict such speech except for providing guidelines for time, place and manner.  Most private universities follow similar rules as well.

[4everwarriors]

Ah bullchit! If you have a backbone, you do what's morally right, aina?

[Uncle Rico]

Ah bullchit! If you have a backbone, you do what's morally right, aina?

Huh

[The Sultan]

Ah bullchit! If you have a backbone, you do what's morally right, aina?

Am I in bizarro Scoop or something?

[Pakuni]

The 1st amendment protects hate speech but a University President or a employer or company can discipline someone who engages in these acts any way they choose.

A university president can discipline someone for speech any way they choose?
Tell that to President Lovell.

[4everwarriors]

I hope these schools get hit very hard with donors withholdin' money. Those in charge of advancement can pound sand tryin' to get donations from their international alums. Harvard and Penn will not be just fine, aina?

[The Sultan]

I hope these schools get hit very hard with donors withholdin' money. Those in charge of advancement can pound sand tryin' to get donations from their international alums. Harvard and Penn will not be just fine, aina?

Nope. They'll be fine.