Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Lennys Tap]

#selfown

Gotta have his Trump fix - more addictive than heroin for Mike.

[JWags85]

Al Shifa hospital director and medical staff arrested.

The reasoning, they had to know something about Hamas, because empty tunnels, built by Israel 40 years ago, were found under the hospital.

Things like this risk the ceasefire and hostage release.

Or could it be because of the video showing hostages being brought back to Al Shifa on October 7th and a myriad of other things they found involving the hospital?  Its a bit Hamas PR-ish to say there is nothing of interest there to be found involving anything with the hospital but just some old empty tunnels.

And I'm not exactly seeing the correlation in your last point.  They didn't bomb the hospital, they didn't demolish the Hospital Director's house, they didn't execute any of them.  If they would renege on the ceasefire or hostages because Israel is interrogating a co-conspirator/pawn under duress, they were never sincere about it to begin with and just wanted a show of weakness in the IDF counter attack.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/ahead-of-slated-palestinian-prisoner-release-ben-gvir-tells-police-to-shut-down-celebrations/

Priorities. My understanding is he is very much not happy about the hostage swap.

[forgetful]

Or could it be because of the video showing hostages being brought back to Al Shifa on October 7th and a myriad of other things they found involving the hospital?  Its a bit Hamas PR-ish to say there is nothing of interest there to be found involving anything with the hospital but just some old empty tunnels.

And I'm not exactly seeing the correlation in your last point.  They didn't bomb the hospital, they didn't demolish the Hospital Director's house, they didn't execute any of them.  If they would renege on the ceasefire or hostages because Israel is interrogating a co-conspirator/pawn under duress, they were never sincere about it to begin with and just wanted a show of weakness in the IDF counter attack.

On the first point, hostages being brought back to the hospital was already known, Hamas had said previously (like immediately) that they took some hostages to hospitals for treatment. That isn't really nefarious nor unusual.

And unless I missed it, they didn't find anything in the tunnels. All the videos I've seen show they are empty. There is certainly nothing consistent with a command and control center. And given that they were built by Israel in 1983, there existence is not surprising.

I may have missed something, but I've been following the IDF reports pretty closely. Do you think Israel has provided sufficient evidence to validate their assault on the hospital, nonetheless arresting doctors and staff? If so, pointing out particulars would be appreciated, as I'm more than happy to admit I'm wrong.

I'll note, it is not Hamas PR'ish, its what most of the world's (including many western nations) media, and humanitarian organizations are reporting, where they are saying that the evidence provided is severely lacking.

I will note, that I truly believe Israel thought the tunnels were being used as a command and control center, and that Hamas was operating out of the hospital. So I don't think they were intentionally going after a hospital based on nothing. I just think they were wrong on the intel. I wish they had simply said something like:

"We were operating on intel from captured Hamas operatives, and detailed records from prior Gaza incursions indicating that Hamas was operating command and control operations from tunnels/bunkers under the hospital. Upon infiltrating the tunnels, it appears that they had perviously abandoned those operations, and although Hamas members were seen in the vicinity of the hospital, and weapons were found, as well as videos showing hostages were brought to the hospital, the hospital was no longer functioning as a Hamas command/controls center."

A statement like that would go a long way in terms of image control. Especially given how they bungled a lot of the data releases that damaged their credibility.

[forgetful]

Or could it be because of the video showing hostages being brought back to Al Shifa on October 7th and a myriad of other things they found involving the hospital?  Its a bit Hamas PR-ish to say there is nothing of interest there to be found involving anything with the hospital but just some old empty tunnels.

And I'm not exactly seeing the correlation in your last point.  They didn't bomb the hospital, they didn't demolish the Hospital Director's house, they didn't execute any of them.  If they would renege on the ceasefire or hostages because Israel is interrogating a co-conspirator/pawn under duress, they were never sincere about it to begin with and just wanted a show of weakness in the IDF counter attack.

Regarding the second point.

Arresting doctors, and the hospital director is highly unusual based on what data they've shown, it also created a lot of uproar in the Arab community. Within the Arab community, this was viewed as more innocent (and highly respected) civilians were illegally detained. Many in the Arab community view these as the equivalent of hostages, which is why I feared it could impact the deal. Fortunately, it didn't impact the release and some hostages are now home.

I just viewed it as a risky move that was unlikely to provide any useful/meaningful intel that they already do not know.

[JWags85]

On the first point, hostages being brought back to the hospital was already known, Hamas had said previously (like immediately) that they took some hostages to hospitals for treatment. That isn't really nefarious nor unusual.

Yea, except they passed no less than half a dozen hospitals between the border and Al Shifa if they were really seeking treatment....

Regarding the second point.

Arresting doctors, and the hospital director is highly unusual based on what data they've shown, it also created a lot of uproar in the Arab community. Within the Arab community, this was viewed as more innocent (and highly respected) civilians were illegally detained. Many in the Arab community view these as the equivalent of hostages, which is why I feared it could impact the deal. Fortunately, it didn't impact the release and some hostages are now home.

I just viewed it as a risky move that was unlikely to provide any useful/meaningful intel that they already do not know.

Disagree on the latter.  We have no idea what the IDF was seeking, had in their intel about Al Shifa, etc..

This isn't directed at you personally, but I find it curious that, for many, seemingly 1000% of the burden of proof falls on Israel, and immediately.  Hamas/Gazan government word is taken as gospel that Israel has to dispel.  And that the IDF needs to show any and all intel or findings as a campaign is actively going on otherwise they are going to be painted as liars.

Yes, we know that Israel has lied plenty before.  But when Hamas kills hundreds of civilians in a day and then violently takes hostages back to Gaza, their version of taking them to a key building (again bypassing not just one but many medical facilities in the meantime) "for treatment" is thought of as "oh thats reasonable".  Same as 500 dead in a hospital bombing.

[HutchwasClutch]

Yea, except they passed no less than half a dozen hospitals between the border and Al Shifa if they were really seeking treatment....

Disagree on the latter.  We have no idea what the IDF was seeking, had in their intel about Al Shifa, etc..

This isn't directed at you personally, but I find it curious that, for many, seemingly 1000% of the burden of proof falls on Israel, and immediately.  Hamas/Gazan government word is taken as gospel that Israel has to dispel.  And that the IDF needs to show any and all intel or findings as a campaign is actively going on otherwise they are going to be painted as liars.

Yes, we know that Israel has lied plenty before.  But when Hamas kills hundreds of civilians in a day and then violently takes hostages back to Gaza, their version of taking them to a key building (again bypassing not just one but many medical facilities in the meantime) "for treatment" is thought of as "oh thats reasonable".  Same as 500 dead in a hospital bombing.

💯

[Heisenberg]

It is a 10-year-old story that reads like it was written yesterday. And it goes precisely to this point that Israel is required to explain everything, and the Palestinians have to explain nothing.

Very good read

An Insider's Guide to the Most Important Story on Earth
A former AP correspondent explains how and why reporters get Israel so wrong, and why it matters
BY MATTI FRIEDMAN
AUGUST 25, 2014

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-insider-guide

---

What Is Important About the Israel Story, and What Is Not

A reporter working in the international press corps here understands quickly that what is important in the Israel-Palestinian story is Israel. If you follow mainstream coverage, you will find nearly no real analysis of Palestinian society or ideologies, profiles of armed Palestinian groups, or investigation of Palestinian government. Palestinians are not taken seriously as agents of their own fate. The West has decided that Palestinians should want a state alongside Israel, so that opinion is attributed to them as fact, though anyone who has spent time with actual Palestinians understands that things are (understandably, in my opinion) more complicated. Who they are and what they want is not important: The story mandates that they exist as passive victims of the party that matters.

Corruption, for example, is a pressing concern for many Palestinians under the rule of the Palestinian Authority, but when I and another reporter once suggested an article on the subject, we were informed by the bureau chief that Palestinian corruption was "not the story." (Israeli corruption was, and we covered it at length.)

[Heisenberg]

Will the IDF flood Hamas tunnels with sea water to kill terrorists?
https://worldisraelnews.com/will-idf-flood-hamas-tunnels/

One of the options the IDF is considering in order to strike a decisive blow against Hamas is to flood its vast tunnel networks with sea water, columnist David Ignatius wrote in The Washington Post Sunday after interviewing numerous military sources.

The Gaza Strip, the veteran journalist pointed out, is conveniently located on the Mediterranean Sea. The IDF must be thinking, he wrote, if there's a real need to risk soldiers' lives by sending them into narrow and booby-trapped corridors.

----

The precedent for this was Egypt 10 years ago (and I might add no one cared when the Egyptians killed Palestinians, only when the Jews do it).

https://www.israelhayom.com/2023/10/22/floods-and-bombs-this-is-how-egypt-handled-hamas-smuggling-tunnels/

Interestingly, just about a decade ago, Egypt faced a similar challenge to what Israel is going through now.

ISIS terrorists, who had infiltrated from Gaza, carried out deadly terror attacks in Sinai. They used the smuggling tunnels leading from the strip to Egypt, the economic anchor of Hamas. Estimates say that between 10-15% of the terror organization's budget came from taxes on goods that pass through the tunnels in Rafah as well as from issuing licenses, for an annual income of about one billion dollars.

Such reports embarrassed Cairo, and an official was quick to accuse Hamas of transporting chemical weapons to terror groups in Sinai.

As such, el-Sissi dealt a great blow to Hamas. Since his rise to power, approximately 1,900 tunnels have been destroyed.

Egypt did not hold back: the tunnels were shelled from the air, destroyed with controlled explosions on the ground, and flooded with sewage water or water pumped directly from the Mediterranean Sea. Some reports said even chemical substances were used, which, if true, turned the tunnels into death traps.

October 2014 saw another turn in the war on the tunnels. Thirty-three Egyptian soldiers were killed in an ISIS terror attack, and as far as the country's Supreme Council of the Armed Forces was concerned, the die was cast.

Over the next three years, Egypt destroyed 3,000 residential buildings in Rafah near the border. Satellite footage showed entire neighborhoods turned to rubble.

[jesmu84]

As far as I understand, the Israeli released Palestinians were majority women and kids.

Those were the folks that were convicted attempted or actual murderers?

[forgetful]

Yea, except they passed no less than half a dozen hospitals between the border and Al Shifa if they were really seeking treatment....

That's certainly a good point.

Disagree on the latter.  We have no idea what the IDF was seeking, had in their intel about Al Shifa, etc..

This isn't directed at you personally, but I find it curious that, for many, seemingly 1000% of the burden of proof falls on Israel, and immediately.  Hamas/Gazan government word is taken as gospel that Israel has to dispel.  And that the IDF needs to show any and all intel or findings as a campaign is actively going on otherwise they are going to be painted as liars.

Yes, we know that Israel has lied plenty before.  But when Hamas kills hundreds of civilians in a day and then violently takes hostages back to Gaza, their version of taking them to a key building (again bypassing not just one but many medical facilities in the meantime) "for treatment" is thought of as "oh thats reasonable".  Same as 500 dead in a hospital bombing.

I don't disagree with you that for some, they immediately reject anything Israel says and are more apt to accept Hamas statements. I can't speak for why people would do so, but there are studies showing that for certain demographics that are active in protesting/advocating for oppressed individuals, they always associate with, and vehemently support the oppressed side, and automatically demonize those they view as the oppressor. They typically accept violent actions against the "oppressor," and do put the burden of proof for any actions/events on the "oppressor." For these groups, Palestinians have been viewed as an oppressed group.

For the record, I do not ascribe to the above positions.

I've said it before, but personally, I don't really believe anything anyone says during a war, unless they support it with evidence. That includes the US when we are at war.

In general, I place the burden of proof on the group making the primary claim, and try to do as much independent research as I can.

For instance, when Hamas claimed 500 died in the one hospital strike, they need to prove this. The burden of proof is on Hamas. Similarly, they claimed it was an Israeli strike. They were the only ones who could access the site and provide evidence. Until they provide evidence of their claims, I'm not going to believe them.

For Israel. They attacked hospitals, claiming they were command and control infrastructure. They are making the claim, and have access to all video footage of the hospital, and access to the entire grounds. It is their burden of proof to demonstrate it was indeed a command and control center. No one else can prove or disprove the claim besides Israel. Their evidence so far is lacking, which is why most of the world's media remains critical, and why I remain skeptical.

Regarding the two hostages showing up at the hospital. Personally, I don't think that is evidence of a command and control center at the hospital. You do make a good point on asking why they bypassed other hospitals (I don't know Gaza well enough to know if they would have).

So for the time being, I remain skeptical. At some point, I think they need to provide much better evidence validating their strikes (e.g. hospitals and schools). That doesn't have to be today, although I think politically definitive evidence would be wise to present, if available.

If not, personally, I'd rather they presented nothing right now, and simply said all evidence validating our claims will be presented to the international community at the end of our mission, than to present what they have so far.

[Mutaman]

@CBS_Herridge
https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1727131445528064453
@CBSNews obtained intel alert which points to "an increasing terrorist threat to New York State" tied to Israel-Hamas war" + the "increase in civilian casualties raises the likelihood that violent extremist threat actors will seek to conduct attacks..."

I'm trying to figure out if its safe enough to go get a quart of milk, but Catherine Herridge seems to be focused on subpoenas re Hunter dick pictures.

[Heisenberg]

I'm trying to figure out if its safe enough to go get a quart of milk, but Catherine Herridge seems to be focused on subpoenas re Hunter dick pictures.

Do you think warnings of terrorism in the US are a joke?

[Heisenberg]

As far as I understand, the Israeli released Palestinians were majority women and kids.

Those were the folks that were convicted attempted or actual murderers?

The wording of "kids" has been controversial.

The Gaza Health Ministry (GHM) defines "children" as anyone under 19. The media has accepted this definition.

So when GHM claims 13,000 have been killed, and 5,000 were "children," the belief is the vast majority of these "children" were males between 15 and 18 that were either Jihadi or Hamas fighters. The vast majority of all killed were associated with Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) and/or Hamas or a forced human shield.

Earlier, I posted that the Gaza Health Ministry stated policy is to not separate civilians from enemy combatants. They will let others figure this out after the fact.

Other estimates of the number of innocent civilians caught in the crossfire of Israeli attacks is small, in the 10 to 15% range of all killed (if we are to believe the total number of 13,000).

And recall that PIJ and Hamas rockets are not well constructed, so about 20% of them malfunction and land in Gaza. Estimates are these failed rockets that have killed as many innocent Palestinian civilians as Israel.

Where is the worldwide condemnation of the PIJ/Hamas rockets and UN resolutions to call on PIJ/Hamas to stop firing them to protect innocent Palestinians?


---

https://news.sky.com/story/the-palestinian-prisoners-who-could-be-released-by-israel-13013758

A list of the Palestinian prisoners who could be released has been published by the Israeli justice ministry.
Sky News has analysed the list and found:

Around 10% of the people on the list are women - 33 of them to be precise

A similar number aged 19 or over - meaning 90% of those on the list are aged 18 or under

Of those aged 18 or under, five are aged 14, six are 15-years-old, 37 are 16-years-old, 76 are 17-years-old and 146 are 18-years-old

One of the most well-known names on the list is Israa Jaabis. She was sentenced to more than 10 years in prison after a gas cylinder in her possession exploded at a police checkpoint.

The now 38-year-old gained media attention when she requested Israel pay for surgery to repair the burns and injuries she sustained during the fire.

The authorities turned down her request, according to Palestinian media agency, Alray.

The youngest of the 33 females is Nofoze Hammad, aged 15. Her offence is recorded as "attempted murder, support for terrorism, crimes against justice". Hammad was to serve a 12-year-sentence after stabbing a Jewish woman, according to local news reports.

The husband of Moriah Cohen, the woman hurt in the attack, told Channel 12: "The children were with my wife when she was stabbed and we promised them that they would never see her [Hammad] again and that she would be in prison for the rest of her life.

While none of the prisoners eligible for release were charged with murder, Hammad is one of 117 individuals who have "attempted murder" mentioned in the offences recorded next to their names.

Other offences include supporting terrorism, arson, handling explosives and throwing stones, with 74 individuals accused of using rocks to attack Israelis.

Half of those on the list do not have links with any specific organisations. Around 50 people are recorded as being associated with Hamas.

While 300 names have been published, a spokesperson for the Israeli Prime Minister's office confirmed to Sky News not all of the people on the list would be released.

"Since the deal says three Palestinian prisoners for each hostage, we are preparing 300 in case the terrorists will be kind enough to release 100 hostages, which even then will only mean 40% of them," he said.

[The Sultan]

It is a 10-year-old story that reads like it was written yesterday. And it goes precisely to this point that Israel is required to explain everything, and the Palestinians have to explain nothing.

Very good read

An Insider's Guide to the Most Important Story on Earth
A former AP correspondent explains how and why reporters get Israel so wrong, and why it matters
BY MATTI FRIEDMAN
AUGUST 25, 2014

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-insider-guide

---

What Is Important About the Israel Story, and What Is Not

A reporter working in the international press corps here understands quickly that what is important in the Israel-Palestinian story is Israel. If you follow mainstream coverage, you will find nearly no real analysis of Palestinian society or ideologies, profiles of armed Palestinian groups, or investigation of Palestinian government. Palestinians are not taken seriously as agents of their own fate. The West has decided that Palestinians should want a state alongside Israel, so that opinion is attributed to them as fact, though anyone who has spent time with actual Palestinians understands that things are (understandably, in my opinion) more complicated. Who they are and what they want is not important: The story mandates that they exist as passive victims of the party that matters.

Corruption, for example, is a pressing concern for many Palestinians under the rule of the Palestinian Authority, but when I and another reporter once suggested an article on the subject, we were informed by the bureau chief that Palestinian corruption was "not the story." (Israeli corruption was, and we covered it at length.)

Nonsense. There was plenty of coverage about Palestinian corruption. In fact, I pointed out that PLO corruption was one of the main reasons that Palestinians voted for the political wing of Hamas.  (You ignored this.)

BTW, is there any clearly biased news source that you don't just lap up like a beaten down old sheep dog?

[Heisenberg]

Nonsense. There was plenty of coverage about Palestinian corruption. In fact, I pointed out that PLO corruption was one of the main reasons that Palestinians voted for the political wing of Hamas.  (You ignored this.)

BTW, is there any clearly biased news source that you don't just lap up like a beaten down old sheep dog?

It was written by a former AP reporter/editor who covered the conflict for many years. He detailed the policies of AP, in covering the conflict. The AP is/was arguably the largest and most important—western press organization covering this conflict. So, AP's policies matter a lot as it is the most important source for the Western world to understand what is happening.

Try reading the story; you might learn something.

And if you're saying the AP is a clearly biased source, I agree. They are biased pro-Palestinian and have been for decades.

[Heisenberg]

I don't disagree with you that for some, they immediately reject anything Israel says and are more apt to accept Hamas statements. I can't speak for why people would do so, but there are studies showing that for certain demographics that are active in protesting/advocating for oppressed individuals, they always associate with, and vehemently support the oppressed side, and automatically demonize those they view as the oppressor.

134 pages in, and forget breaks his record for projection and gaslighting. The scary part is he is unable to see this is a perfect description of him.

So for the time being, I remain skeptical. At some point, I think they need to provide much better evidence validating their strikes (e.g. hospitals and schools). That doesn't have to be today, although I think politically definitive evidence would be wise to present, if available.

If not, personally, I'd rather they presented nothing right now, and simply said all evidence validating our claims will be presented to the international community at the end of our mission, than to present what they have so far.

There are only two people left on the planet who hold this position: Hamas and Forget.

Jake Sullivan called the hospital a command center. The EU called the hospital a command center. Amnesty International called the hospital a command center (10 years ago!). I posted all of these earlier.

So, why does Israel have to continuously prove what the world has long accepted? Why don't you demand that Hamas prove it is not?

And what evidence would satisfy you? As it appears the answer is none, you will never accept this hospital was a command center.

[The Sultan]

Written by a former AP reporter/editor who covered the conflict for many years.

Are you saying the AP is a clearly biased source?  Because if you are, I agree. They are biased pro-Palestinian and have been for decades.

LOL...how would you come to that conclusion based on what I wrote? Her idea that Palestinian corruption wasn't covered is simply false. It was covered extensively. Just Google it up and you will see plenty of articles dating way back that mention it repeatedly - including some from the Associated Press!

You can't see that this is a clearly biased source, publishing an article from a clearly biased writer who says things that are not entirely accurate and can be easily refuted with five minutes of research.  So not are you not a serious person, you aren't really a smart one either.

[Heisenberg]

LOL...how would you come to that conclusion based on what I wrote? Her idea that Palestinian corruption wasn't covered is simply false. It was covered extensively. Just Google it up and you will see plenty of articles dating way back that mention it repeatedly - including some from the Associated Press!

You can't see that this is a clearly biased source, publishing an article from a clearly biased writer who says things that are not entirely accurate and can be easily refuted with five minutes of research.  So not are you not a serious person, you aren't really a smart one either.

First, if you actually read it, you would see that the reporter is a man.

And if you actually read it, you would see this was in the next paragraph after the part I quote above.

---
Israeli actions are analyzed and criticized, and every flaw in Israeli society is aggressively reported. In one seven-week period, from Nov. 8 to Dec. 16, 2011, I decided to count the stories coming out of our bureau on the various moral failings of Israeli society—proposed legislation meant to suppress the media, the rising influence of Orthodox Jews, unauthorized settlement outposts, gender segregation, and so forth. I counted 27 separate articles, an average of a story every two days. In a very conservative estimate, this seven-week tally was higher than the total number of significantly critical stories about Palestinian government and society, including the totalitarian Islamists of Hamas, that our bureau had published in the preceding three years.

---

Googling billions and billions of pages to find one story does not prove your point.

[Heisenberg]

Two million Palestinians live in Israel (but, wait, it is an apartheid state?).

Why are these two million Palestinians not protesting inside Israel or in East Jerusalem?  For the same reason they call themselves Arab, they want nothing to do with Palestinians. They live in Israel to get away from the death cult and better their lives.


---

Report: 93% of Polled Arab Residents of Jerusalem Prefer Israeli Rule to Palestinian Authority
https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/12/14/report-93-of-polled-arab-residents-of-jerusalem-prefer-israeli-rule-to-palestinian-authority

A new poll of Arab residents of Jerusalem by a Palestinian media outlet found that 93% of them prefer to remain under Israeli rule and would not give up their Israeli identity card.

Arab residents of Jerusalem are, for the most part, not Israeli citizens, but can request citizenship if they wish. Those who are not citizens carry a special ID card allowing them freedom of movement within Israel proper.

The poll conducted by the Shfa news outlet (https://www.shfanews.net/post/102082) asked 1,200 Arab Jerusalemites — none of them Israeli citizens — regarding their preference for living under Israeli or Palestinian rule in the future.

1,116 of the respondents said they prefer for Israel to continue to rule Jerusalem. 84 said they preferred the Palestinian Authority, but 79 of those said they would not give up their current identity card.

[The Sultan]

First, if you actually read it, you would see that the reporter is a man.

And if you actually read it, you would see this was in the next paragraph after the part I quote above.

---
Israeli actions are analyzed and criticized, and every flaw in Israeli society is aggressively reported. In one seven-week period, from Nov. 8 to Dec. 16, 2011, I decided to count the stories coming out of our bureau on the various moral failings of Israeli society—proposed legislation meant to suppress the media, the rising influence of Orthodox Jews, unauthorized settlement outposts, gender segregation, and so forth. I counted 27 separate articles, an average of a story every two days. In a very conservative estimate, this seven-week tally was higher than the total number of significantly critical stories about Palestinian government and society, including the totalitarian Islamists of Hamas, that our bureau had published in the preceding three years.

---

Googling billions and billions of pages to find one story does not prove your point.

Sorry I misgendered the writer.

But him counting stories over a seven week period 12 years ago isn't exactly a reliable source either. (Except for you of course because lap up this kind of stuff without question.)

[The Sultan]

Two million Palestinians live in Israel (but, wait, it is an apartheid state?).

Why are these two million Palestinians not protesting inside Israel or in East Jerusalem?  For the same reason they call themselves Arab, they want nothing to do with Palestinians. They live in Israel to get away from the death cult and better their lives.


---

Report: 93% of Polled Arab Residents of Jerusalem Prefer Israeli Rule to Palestinian Authority
https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/12/14/report-93-of-polled-arab-residents-of-jerusalem-prefer-israeli-rule-to-palestinian-authority

A new poll of Arab residents of Jerusalem by a Palestinian media outlet found that 93% of them prefer to remain under Israeli rule and would not give up their Israeli identity card.

Arab residents of Jerusalem are, for the most part, not Israeli citizens, but can request citizenship if they wish. Those who are not citizens carry a special ID card allowing them freedom of movement within Israel proper.

The poll conducted by the Shfa news outlet (https://www.shfanews.net/post/102082) asked 1,200 Arab Jerusalemites — none of them Israeli citizens — regarding their preference for living under Israeli or Palestinian rule in the future.

1,116 of the respondents said they prefer for Israel to continue to rule Jerusalem. 84 said they preferred the Palestinian Authority, but 79 of those said they would not give up their current identity card.

Huh. How about that?

Do you realize how what you just posted above is inconsistent with what you posted earlier?

[Heisenberg]

Sorry I misgendered the writer.

But him counting stories over a seven week period 12 years ago isn't exactly a reliable source either. (Except for you of course because lap up this kind of stuff without question.)

You misgender him because you did not read it. You claim moral superiority for not reading it because it does not fit your worldview.

Try reading it, what are you afraid of?

[Heisenberg]

Huh. How about that?

Do you realize how what you just posted above is inconsistent with what you posted earlier?

Perfectly consistent. The corruption among Palestinian leaders is so high that Palestinians living in East Jerusalem would instead be associated with Israel.

But Western Progressives like you think you know what Palestinians want ...


https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-insider-guide

A reporter working in the international press corps here understands quickly that what is important in the Israel-Palestinian story is Israel. If you follow mainstream coverage, you will find nearly no real analysis of Palestinian society or ideologies, profiles of armed Palestinian groups, or investigation of Palestinian government. Palestinians are not taken seriously as agents of their own fate. The West has decided that Palestinians should want a state alongside Israel, so that opinion is attributed to them as fact, though anyone who has spent time with actual Palestinians understands that things are (understandably, in my opinion) more complicated. Who they are and what they want is not important: The story mandates that they exist as passive victims of the party that matters.

[The Sultan]

Perfectly consistent. The corruption among Palestinian leaders is so high that Palestinians living in East Jerusalem would instead be associated with Israel.

But Western Progressives like you think you know what Palestinians want ...


https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/israel-insider-guide

A reporter working in the international press corps here understands quickly that what is important in the Israel-Palestinian story is Israel. If you follow mainstream coverage, you will find nearly no real analysis of Palestinian society or ideologies, profiles of armed Palestinian groups, or investigation of Palestinian government. Palestinians are not taken seriously as agents of their own fate. The West has decided that Palestinians should want a state alongside Israel, so that opinion is attributed to them as fact, though anyone who has spent time with actual Palestinians understands that things are (understandably, in my opinion) more complicated. Who they are and what they want is not important: The story mandates that they exist as passive victims of the party that matters.

I have posted what the Palestinians want dummy. You earlier claimed they don't want what they said they want.

Now you are saying the same thing I have been saying from the beginning

My God you can't even keep your own arguments straight.