Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Uncle Rico]

Along wit da Buffoon, hey?

Yes, Trump will be in jail, too

[Heisenberg]

Dead man walking.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/11/1211767117/israel-netanyahu-growing-opposition-hamas-war-gaza

Bibi was toast after October 7. Just like Golda Meyer was toast after the 1973 war. Preventing surprise attacks is the primary job of the Israeli government and failing at this job ends a political career, full stop.

He will go, when the time is right. That is after the primary military objectives are achieved so Israel does not look weak.

And if history repeats, Israel will skip all the current choices and go to a new generation.

So what Bibi thinks will happen to Gaza after the primary military objectives does not matter, he will not be there to decide.

[21Jumpstreet]

Dry up the money to these schools. While foreign students pay full boat tuition, pretty sure they're penny pinchers when it come to donations following graduation, aina?

Not just the foreign students, hey?

[Heisenberg]

I can also attest that a number of liberal American Jews have said similar things to me.

—————-
Bill Ackman a few hours ago

https://x.com/billackman/status/1723457121449124019?s=61&t=Kba4MD7iUYHMRlrUOaqrng

Putting aside whatever you think of ⁦‪@POTUS‬⁩, it is time for him to step aside and allow other candidates to emerge.

‎We are in an extremely unstable, high-risk world. The job of the president is a high-stress, contact sport that requires extraordinary judgment, leadership, and indefatigable energy. You need to be at your mental and physical prime to succeed.  Unfortunately, Biden is falling fast and often.

‎The argument before was: "He is the only one who can beat ⁦‪@realDonaldTrump‬⁩." Recent polling makes it increasingly clear that he will lose to Trump. The polls will only get worse as he deteriorates and the risk in the world increases.

‎A growing number of liberal Democrats that I know who would never vote for Trump 'over their dead body' have recently told me that if the election were held today and the choice was Biden or Trump, they would vote for Trump.

‎There is a growing sentiment that the global disarray that we are witnessing is due to the perception of weakness in the White House. As such, voters will vote for strength and Biden is only getting weaker. People no longer want to rely on: ״Don't worry, he will surround himself with good people."

‎I know of a couple of extraordinary potential candidates who would likely run if Biden announced that he was not going to, but they won't otherwise.

‎Biden's approval ratings would go up, and the American people would cheer if he gave a speech tomorrow announcing his accomplishments, his goals for the next year, and his acknowledgment that one of the most important qualities of a great leader is knowing when the time has come to step aside for the next generation of leadership.

‎A year is enough time for a new candidate to build his/her constituency to win the presidency. The country needs a more centered choice to bring us together.

‎And Trump is highly vulnerable to the right alternative candidate. There are many Republicans who would gladly vote Democrat if a centrist, pro-business Democrat ran for office.

‎Our divisiveness makes us highly vulnerable to our enemies.

‎Imagine what life would be like if the substantial majority of Americans could wake up each morning excited about our country's leader. It has been much too long since this was last true.

‎There comes a time in life when we must rely on our closest family and friends to put their arms around us, sit us down, and tell us the truth.

‎If you are one of the President's closest family members or friends, please tell him that the time has come.

‎Madame First Lady, please, please do so. It is your most important civic responsibility.

‎All of us would be incredibly grateful and the world could be a much happier, safer place.

[21Jumpstreet]

We are in serious trouble of our own making if it comes down to Trump v Biden.

There needs to be a ceasefire immediately in Israel/Palestine. Israel is losing support quickly, and a free, strong Palestine and Israel will lead to peace. There will never be peace until both countries are strong and thriving.

[Heisenberg]

The backlash that started with Brandeis, moved to Columbia is growing.

Will the pro-Palestinian protestors go away quietly?

——-

https://x.com/bandlersbanter/status/1723228932194115909?s=61&t=Kba4MD7iUYHMRlrUOaqrng

Around 300 UCLA faculty members have signed onto this letter urging the university to "make the strongest possible statements condemning the barbaric Hamas attacks" and denounce "pro-Palestinian rallies on campus in which the massacres by Hamas were celebrated, including explicit calls for violence.

[Heisenberg]

We are in serious trouble of our own making if it comes down to Trump v Biden.

There needs to be a ceasefire immediately in Israel/Palestine. Israel is losing support quickly, and a free, strong Palestine and Israel will lead to peace. There will never be peace until both countries are strong and thriving.

Define "free and strong Palestine" because that is understood to mean giving them the tools and ability to genocide the Jews "from the river to the sea"

The Palestinians have not show any real interest in a two state solution.  In anything, they had a state in Gaza as their have been zero Jews in it since 2005 (and when Isreal pulled out, they had to dig up Jewish graves and take the remains with them). Instead of turning it into a Hong Kong or Singapore of the Middle East, they turned it into an open air prison to launch terror attacks against Israel.

And who is Israel losing support with? American public opinion? First, THEY DON'T CARE, it is our conceit that we think this matters.

Second, this is very debatable as the polls continue to show overwhelming support for Israel.

[21Jumpstreet]

Define "free and strong Palestine" because that is understood to mean giving them the tools and ability to genocide the Jews "from the river to the sea"

The Palestinians have not show any real interest in a two state solution.  In anything, they had a state in Gaza as their have been zero Jews in it since 2005 (and when Isreal pulled out, they had to dig up Jewish graves and take the remains with them). Instead of turning it into a Hong Kong or Singapore of the Middle East, they turned it into an open air prison to launch terror attacks against Israel.

And who is Israel losing support with? American public opinion? First, THEY DON'T CARE, it is our conceit that we think this matters.

Second, this is very debatable as the polls continue to show overwhelming support for Israel.

A free and strong Palestine has nothing to do with the existence of Israel. Wanting a free and strong Palestine does not mean wanting the destruction of Israel. Period. Wanting only Palestine "from the river to the sea" in my opinion means what you say it does, and it's abhorrent in my opinion.

How about a two state solution that is fair. Both countries have most certainly shown support for a two state solution, but extremists have gotten the say. Make a fair proposition and my guess is there will be overwhelming support.

There is most certainly not overwhelming support of Israel, right or wrong, I don't know. There is an increasing call for a ceasefire, an increasing feeling that Israel has gone too far. Of course, you are right, it may not matter.

[JWags85]

There needs to be a ceasefire immediately in Israel/Palestine. Israel is losing support quickly, and a free, strong Palestine and Israel will lead to peace. There will never be peace until both countries are strong and thriving.

I'm not sure how this works.  A ceasefire with a fight against Hamas half done is not going to lead to anything productive in a "two state solution".  Bad actors would still be in control of Palestinian interests and pushing to punish Israel for "genocide" or the like. All I can see is Israeli concessions benefitting Palestine, but actually benefitting Hamas and giving them more credibility, resources, and now public support to attack Israel even harder.

If the result of this is the elimination of Hamas' top leadership, Netanyahu being out of office (criminal charges or otherwise), and someone other than Abbas' dumbass running the PLO/Fatah, then I could be hopeful for peace.  Any compromise/two state solution that still involves Hamas/PIJ in a leadership/power position in Palestine is one that will be short lived at best

[forgetful]

I'm not sure how this works.  A ceasefire with a fight against Hamas half done is not going to lead to anything productive in a "two state solution".  Bad actors would still be in control of Palestinian interests and pushing to punish Israel for "genocide" or the like. All I can see is Israeli concessions benefitting Palestine, but actually benefitting Hamas and giving them more credibility, resources, and now public support to attack Israel even harder.

If the result of this is the elimination of Hamas' top leadership, Netanyahu being out of office (criminal charges or otherwise), and someone other than Abbas' dumbass running the PLO/Fatah, then I could be hopeful for peace.  Any compromise/two state solution that still involves Hamas/PIJ in a leadership/power position in Palestine is one that will be short lived at best

Very solid post. In my opinion, the only way there is a peace deal is for Israel to completely leave Gaza and the West Bank after eliminating Hamas.

And, a UN peace keeping force maintaining police presence in Gaza/West Bank to both ensure that no new settlements are made, and that there is not settler aggression, but also to stop the rise of any extremist threats.

The latter is the only way to make sure that extremists don't sabotage any peace plans.

[21Jumpstreet]

I'm not sure how this works.  A ceasefire with a fight against Hamas half done is not going to lead to anything productive in a "two state solution".  Bad actors would still be in control of Palestinian interests and pushing to punish Israel for "genocide" or the like. All I can see is Israeli concessions benefitting Palestine, but actually benefitting Hamas and giving them more credibility, resources, and now public support to attack Israel even harder.

If the result of this is the elimination of Hamas' top leadership, Netanyahu being out of office (criminal charges or otherwise), and someone other than Abbas' dumbass running the PLO/Fatah, then I could be hopeful for peace.  Any compromise/two state solution that still involves Hamas/PIJ in a leadership/power position in Palestine is one that will be short lived at best

Fair

[21Jumpstreet]

Very solid post. In my opinion, the only way there is a peace deal is for Israel to completely leave Gaza and the West Bank after eliminating Hamas.

And, a UN peace keeping force maintaining police presence in Gaza/West Bank to both ensure that no new settlements are made, and that there is not settler aggression, but also to stop the rise of any extremist threats.

The latter is the only way to make sure that extremists don't sabotage any peace plans.

Fair

[Heisenberg]

How about a two state solution that is fair. Both countries have most certainly shown support for a two state solution, but extremists have gotten the say. Make a fair proposition and my guess is there will be overwhelming support.

Two state solutions date back to to the Balfour declaration in 1917. Their have been numerous proposals.
What have they all lacked that makes them unfair?

And overwhelming support from whom? The UN and Israel have made numerous proposals. The Palestinians always say no and never propose one. They say they want one, both those are half-hearted words made for Western progressives because they never follow up on them.

Further who does one propose a two state solution too? What Palestinian group has the authority to make this deal?

The Palestinian Authority? The are weak. Hezbollah? They want the destruction of Israel. Hamas?

Again, who speaks for the Palestinians?

[forgetful]

Two state solutions date back to to the Balfour declaration in 1917. Their have been numerous proposals.
What have they all lacked that makes them unfair?

And overwhelming support from whom? The UN and Israel have made numerous proposals. The Palestinians always say no and never propose one. They say they want one, both those are half-hearted words made for Western progressives because they never follow up on them.

Further who does one propose a two state solution too? What Palestinian group has the authority to make this deal?

The Palestinian Authority? The are weak. Hezbollah? They want the destruction of Israel. Hamas?

Again, who speaks for the Palestinians?

Repeating this over and over again does not make it true.

[Heisenberg]

Very solid post. In my opinion, the only way there is a peace deal is for Israel to completely leave Gaza and the West Bank after eliminating Hamas.

And, a UN peace keeping force maintaining police presence in Gaza/West Bank to both ensure that no new settlements are made, and that there is not settler aggression, but also to stop the rise of any extremist threats.

The latter is the only way to make sure that extremists don't sabotage any peace plans.

Let's suppose UN blue helmets go into Palestinian areas. What happens?

Either they are friendly Arab forces that effectively do nothing and the attacks continue agaist Isreal and the situation is worse.

Or the Palestinians are outraged at this new occupation and what happens when the sucide bombers start killing blue helmets? And they will. Then what?

And if you send European and American blue helmets in, they will immediately declare Jihad against them and the war will continue.

I know you'll hate this answer, their is only one group on the planet that can keep peace in these areas, because they have before... The IDF.

[Heisenberg]

Repeating this over and over again does not make it true.

Then give me a link to a map of a two state solution proposed by the Palestinians.

[MuggsyB]

Let's suppose UN blue helmets go into Palestinian areas. What happens?

Either they are friendly Arab forces that effectively do nothing and the attacks continue agaist Isreal and the situation is worse.

Or the Palestinians are outraged at this new occupation and what happens when the sucide bombers start killing blue helmets? And they will. Then what?

And if you send European and American blue helmets in, they will immediately declare Jihad against them and the war will continue.

I know you'll hate this answer, their is only one group on the planet that can keep peace in these areas, because they have before... The IDF.

if Israel completely left the area and a Jewish State was established in say Wyoming what do you think would happen to the Palestinians?

[MuggsyB]

I'm for a two-state solution as well but with different partners and a slightly larger swath of land. 

[Heisenberg]

Good article about the internal problems the Democrat party is having with Israel.

I highighted Ritchie Torres strong pro-Isreal view below. And in that, I highlighted the real issue among the "complicated" and "nuanced" progressive crowd .... are Jews white or a different race?

They see the world through the simplicistic lens of the oppressor and the oppressed. So in every issue, they side with the oppressed, no matter how terrible they are, like Hamas and the Palestinians that back them. In their view, the oppressed are always right, and anything they did wrong, they were driven to this insanity by the oppressor.

Further complicating the issue is if progressives view Jews as a race or rich white people, the worst kind of oppressor.

A lot of this view is in this thread, claiming that people that support Israel (like me) view the Palestinians as "sub-human" (because they are non-white and oppressed by white people).

——

Two Young Democratic Stars Collide Over Israel and Their Party's Future
https://dnyuz.com/2023/11/11/two-young-democratic-stars-collide-over-israel-and-their-partys-future/


They are among the brightest political stars rising from New York. They were born just months apart, 40 years after the founding of Israel.

And at the most fraught moment for American-Israeli relations in decades, the clashing views of Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Ritchie Torres offer a striking glimpse into the future of one of American politics' fiercest debates.

—

On the other side of the Bronx River, Mr. Torres, 35, who is gay and Afro-Latino, has staked out a strikingly different project to the right of many of his peers, offering himself as a counterweight to his party's leftward lurch.

His own social media following is relatively small — 170,000 followers on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, to Ms. Ocasio-Cortez's 13.2 million — but the combativeness of Mr. Torres's retorts has stood out. In just the last few days, he compared a cease-fire to asking Israel to "become the author of its own annihilation," called claims that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza "blood libel" and argued that most Israelis are not actually white, as those who see the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a racial struggle claim, but "people of color in the American sense."[/i]

Mr. Torres has reserved special vitriol for the Democratic Socialists of America, the small but influential leftist group that has pushed for boycotts of Israel and counts Ms. Ocasio-Cortez as a member. In an interview, he said that the D.S.A. was trying to infiltrate the Democratic Party "to impose the ideological litmus tests on Israel" and "cleanse" those who disagree with them. He said he was on a "publicly stated mission" to undermine it.

"I do worry that the next generation is increasingly indoctrinated with anti-Israel hate so virulent that it renders them indifferent to the coldblooded murder of Jews in Israel," he said.

His views are no surprise to those who watched Mr. Torres, a proud college dropout and defender of public housing, evolve from left-aligned political upstart to more traditional Democratic congressman.

Though he represents an overwhelmingly Black and Latino district that includes only a few thousand Jewish voters, he has improbably made the conflict 5,700 miles away a top priority since 2015, when he traveled to Israel on a City Council delegation. It was his first trip abroad, and Mr. Torres said witnessing both the fragility of the frontier and Tel Aviv's openness to gay life left him with "profound empathy" for Israel and a commitment to a two-state solution.

[Heisenberg]

A new twist on "from the river to the sea"

https://x.com/marionawfal/status/1723446783244644856?s=61&t=Kba4MD7iUYHMRlrUOaqrng

🚨JUST IN - "WE FIGHT WHEREVER WE MUST: LEBANON, SYRIA, JORDAN AND THE RED SEA"

Netanyahu:

"I warned Hezbollah, don't enter the war, it would be your worst mistake

All Hamas operatives must die, and we are going to continue full force.

We are also very well-prepared in the North"

This war seems far from coming to an end 😢

[4everwarriors]

I can also attest that a number of liberal American Jews have said similar things to me.

—————-
Bill Ackman a few hours ago

https://x.com/billackman/status/1723457121449124019?s=61&t=Kba4MD7iUYHMRlrUOaqrng

Putting aside whatever you think of ⁦‪@POTUS‬⁩, it is time for him to step aside and allow other candidates to emerge.

‎We are in an extremely unstable, high-risk world. The job of the president is a high-stress, contact sport that requires extraordinary judgment, leadership, and indefatigable energy. You need to be at your mental and physical prime to succeed.  Unfortunately, Biden is falling fast and often.

‎The argument before was: "He is the only one who can beat ⁦‪@realDonaldTrump‬⁩." Recent polling makes it increasingly clear that he will lose to Trump. The polls will only get worse as he deteriorates and the risk in the world increases.

‎A growing number of liberal Democrats that I know who would never vote for Trump 'over their dead body' have recently told me that if the election were held today and the choice was Biden or Trump, they would vote for Trump.

‎There is a growing sentiment that the global disarray that we are witnessing is due to the perception of weakness in the White House. As such, voters will vote for strength and Biden is only getting weaker. People no longer want to rely on: ״Don't worry, he will surround himself with good people."

‎I know of a couple of extraordinary potential candidates who would likely run if Biden announced that he was not going to, but they won't otherwise.

‎Biden's approval ratings would go up, and the American people would cheer if he gave a speech tomorrow announcing his accomplishments, his goals for the next year, and his acknowledgment that one of the most important qualities of a great leader is knowing when the time has come to step aside for the next generation of leadership.

‎A year is enough time for a new candidate to build his/her constituency to win the presidency. The country needs a more centered choice to bring us together.

‎And Trump is highly vulnerable to the right alternative candidate. There are many Republicans who would gladly vote Democrat if a centrist, pro-business Democrat ran for office.

‎Our divisiveness makes us highly vulnerable to our enemies.

‎Imagine what life would be like if the substantial majority of Americans could wake up each morning excited about our country's leader. It has been much too long since this was last true.

‎There comes a time in life when we must rely on our closest family and friends to put their arms around us, sit us down, and tell us the truth.

‎If you are one of the President's closest family members or friends, please tell him that the time has come.

‎Madame First Lady, please, please do so. It is your most important civic responsibility.

‎All of us would be incredibly grateful and the world could be a much happier, safer place.

The Botus will line his pockets in a buyout, aina?

[The Sultan]

Repeating this over and over again does not make it true.

The only way he can actually claim a valid point here is if people believe his lies are true. It's been his MO for years.

[Heisenberg]

The only way he can actually claim a valid point here is if people believe his lies are true. It's been his MO for years.

Please provide a link to a map of a Palestinian proposal for a two-state solution.

And remember a two state map also includes the Palestinian recognition of of Israel's right to exist, or its half of the two states, and security assurances from the Palestinians that they will stop the terrorist attacks and respect the Israeli half. Because without these, it is not a two state solution.

The poster seems confused, yelling liar, or "your facts are wrong" is not link to the map or proposal. The poster often think these words substitute for a fact or proof, but they do not.

——

For everyone else...no such proposal exists, or has every existed. Every British, UN, Isreali and American (Clinton in 2000) two state proposal has been rejected by the Palestinian leadership.

Why? Because the Palestinian leadership wants a one-state proposal..."from the river to the sea."

"From the river to the sea" is their proposed map.

[The Sultan]

The PLO, which was recognized by Israel as representative of the Palestinian people, were a party to the Oslo accords. The Palestinian people wanted peace negotiations with Israel as evidenced by the 2006 elections.

The idea that the Palestinians want Israel wiped off the map is a simplistic way of viewing the conflict and does not reflect its history. But you like it because you are a simplistic person. Nuance confuses you. It makes your worldview difficult to manage.

So you resort to lies and hyperbole. You are not a serious person who wants really desperately to be taken seriously. So you flail about, copy and pasting articles that provide you comfort. So sad.

[Heisenberg]

The PLO, which was recognized by Israel as representative of the Palestinian people, were a party to the Oslo accords. The Palestinian people wanted peace negotiations with Israel as evidenced by the 2006 elections.

The idea that the Palestinians want Israel wiped off the map is a simplistic way of viewing the conflict and does not reflect its history. But you like it because you are a simplistic person. Nuance confuses you. It makes your worldview difficult to manage.

So you resort to lies and hyperbole. You are not a serious person who wants really desperately to be taken seriously. So you flail about, copy and pasting articles that provide you comfort. So sad.

In December 2000 when an acutal propsal was offered for a true two-state solution, by Clinton and Israel, Arafat said no and went home. So much for the Olso accords.

You can read Ambassador Dennis Ross' account of how the PLO said no. This would also be the former MU professor Dennis Ross

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/19/1207243717/23-years-ago-israelis-and-palestinians-were-talking-about-a-two-state-solution

So all you have is some platitudes to a two-state solution meant to satsify western progressives like you but was never taken as a serious idea by the Palestinians. Because Palestinians don't want a two-state solution.

You still don't have a Palestinian proposed map for two-states. We do have a map for one state ... "river to sea."

—-

I also understand your worldview will not accept that Palestinian leadership does indeed say all the time they want to wipe Israel off the Map, Hamas, Hezbollah and the PA have repeatedly said it and do not recognize Isreal.  Is their another Palestinian leadership group that only you know about that says what you want to hear?

So, since you cannot accept what they say and do, you conclude it must be a "factual error" so your worldview can stay intact.