Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The BBC is biased, but we should read the Washington Times? Lol.

The Washington Times (Moonies)
The Epoch Times (Falon Gong/China)
Zero Hedge (Bulgaria/Russia)
Jack Posobiec (Wanker/Pizza Gate)

Dochey and his sources are quite the case study.

[Pakuni]

That being said, I don't necessarily subscribe to the automatic "they are journalists, they did nothing wrong" thinking in this case.

This is true, but has anyone actually said this, at least in the present case?

They weren't on an assignment, they weren't credentialed war reporters with military forces in a global conflict.  They were sitting shotgun with a terrorist organization as that org rampaged through Israel murdering civilians.

The first statement is a simple and understandable misunderstanding of how many freelance photographers work. The second is, from all the evidence known so far, a false statement.

I'll take the second part first.
If you read the AP story I linked, the pro-Israeli media watchdog that was "just asking questions"
has now admitted that there's no evidence these journalists were riding shotgun with Hamas on Oct. 7. Not only that, that watchdog says it now accepts those journalists' explanations for their coverage that day and is satisfied that they did not know the attack was coming.
What exactly do you know that they don't? If you have something that shows they were riding shotgun with Hamas, please share.

As for freelance photographers, much of their work is done without assignment. In Chicago, for example, there are photographers and videographers who sit in their car with a police scanner all night listening for shootings, crashes, fires, etc. When something pops, they rush to the scene, shoot photo and video, and then sell it to the TV stations, websites and, occasionally, newspapers. They're not on assignment for any news organization or embedded with Chicago PD or Chicago FD. It's just how they work.
I imagine these freelancers in Gaza aren't all that different. They learn of something happening, rush to the scene and then sell their work to news organizations after the fact. They don't learn of a major attack and then wait for CNN or Reuters to tell them what to do. They go take pictures.

Why do you find it curious that Hamas would allow photographers to document the attack? They weren't exactly trying to keep it a secret. They very much wanted, and got, a public spectacle.

[MUBurrow]

So to be clear, the Palestinians did NOT vote for the militant leaders of Hamas who currently in control. Furthermore they WANTED peace with Israel.  The reason they don't have it is largely due to Hamas no doubt, but please stop with the repugnant "well, they deserve what they get" narrative.

Yeah that narrative is just people telling on themselves.  It is possible to 100% stand behind Israel's response to date, and never even need to delve into the culpability of the average Gaza Palestinian. "I am appalled at the loss of innocent life.  However (i) Hamas is the underlying cause of all of the death we are seeing now, and (ii) is so insidious and interwoven into the geography and fabric of Gaza, that they must be rooted out at all costs, even at the significant loss of innocent Gazan life.  To not do that right now is just prolonging the problem and in the long run will result in much more innocent death than we are seeing now."  That's the argument, and its a fine one. 

[Heisenberg]

The Washington Times (Moonies)
The Epoch Times (Falon Gong/China)
Zero Hedge (Bulgaria/Russia)
Jack Posobiec (Wanker/Pizza Gate)

Dochey and his sources are quite the case study.

How about the Washington Post? They are owned by another whack-job (Bezos)

What happened to free-speech?

----

Sally Buzbee, the executive editor of the Washington Post, sent an email to staff members on Wednesday night acknowledging their "many deep concerns and conversations" about a cartoon criticizing Hamas that the newspaper earlier in the day published and then deleted.

In the email, obtained by the Washington Free Beacon, Buzbee wrote:

Dear colleagues,

Given the many deep concerns and conversations today in our newsroom, I wanted to ensure everyone saw the notes sent out tonight by The Post's opinions editor, David Shipley, to Post readers and to his staff in opinions.

My best, Sally

Buzbee forwarded an email that Shipley had sent opinions staff in which he said he had personally "taken down" the cartoon. Shipley included the full text of an editor's note in which he publicly expressed "regret" that he had "missed something profound, and divisive" in publishing the image.

"A cartoon published by Michael Ramirez on the war in Gaza, a cartoon whose publication I approved, was seen by many readers as racist. This was not my intent. I saw the drawing as a caricature of a specific individual, the Hamas spokesperson, who celebrated the attacks on unarmed civilians in Israel," Shipley wrote.

The cartoon depicted an individual, labeled "Hamas," with children, a baby, and a woman strapped to his body. "How dare Israel attack civilians...," the man said in a speech bubble.



Along with Shipley's editor's note, the Post published letters to the editor that variously called the cartoon "deeply malicious," "deeply racist," and "full of bias and prejudice."

The Post also reported on Wednesday evening about its removal of the cartoon by Ramirez, who twice won the Pulitzer Prize at the Las Vegas Review-Journal before joining the Post in May. The report said "the drawing was criticized as racist and dehumanizing toward Palestinians" and described the Hamas caricature as having a "large nose and snarling mouth."

Hamas has a history of using civilians as "human shields." The Biden administration has repeatedly said the Palestinian terrorist group is doing so in its ongoing war with Israel. The Post's own reporting has noted accusations that Hamas seeks to avoid Israeli strikes by operating from densely populated areas in the Gaza Strip, including under hospitals and preventing civilians from evacuating.

As is standard for political cartoonists, Ramirez has often exaggerated the facial features of his subjects of all races, including Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) and Sen. John Fetterman (D., Pa.).




During the 2014 Gaza war, the Post published a cartoon showing Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu punching a Palestinian infant.



Neither Ramirez nor Buzbee responded to requests for comment.

[The Sultan]

How about the Washington Post? They are owned by another whack-job (Bezos)

What happened to free-speech?

This isn't a free speech issue. It's a freedom of the press issue.  And the Post is the one who retains that right...not those who work for it.

Wondering why you didn't indicate that you lifted this from the Washington Free Beacon.  LOL.

[Heisenberg]

First, he denies something happens and then asks for a source.  Upon provided the source, attack the source.  If all else fails, ignore and move on to the next topic or outrage du jour.

It's why he is not a serious person.

Sorry I did not get back to you fast enough for your liking.

This summarizes my answer well.

Could someone explain the difference between an influencer and a d-bag?

I am unclear on this.

[Heisenberg]

You keep saying this as if somehow Gazans deserve their fate, but yet again you are playing pretty loose with any context.

In 2006, Palestine held elections where the party that represented Hamas received a plurality, but not a majority of the votes. The election focused almost entirely on the corruption of Fatah and the PLO.  Here is a quote from the head of the Palestinian National Initiative at the time, who was seeking to oust Fatah.

"Today was a great day for Palestine," said Mustafa Barghouti of the Palestinian National Initiative, a democratic opposition movement. "Mostly, they were voting for opposition and voting against Fatah -- against corruption, against nepotism, against the failure of the peace process, and against the lack of leadership."

Note the last sentence.  Exit polls shows that a vast majority of Palestinians at the time wanted a peace agreement with Israel. Here is a quote from the Palestinian President at the time.

"We are embarking on a new era, and we call on the international community to help us return to the negotiating table with the Israelis, to conclude a peace agreement and implement it," Abbas said at the end of the election.

After the elections, a "unity government" was formed with the leader of Hamas as prime minister. However in 2007, the militant wing of Hamas took over Gaza and the unity government was dissolved. Gaza has been ruled by those militants since.

So to be clear, the Palestinians did NOT vote for the militant leaders of Hamas who currently in control. Furthermore they WANTED peace with Israel.  The reason they don't have it is largely due to Hamas no doubt, but please stop with the repugnant "well, they deserve what they get" narrative.

I don't disagree that a majority of Palestinians may not like Hamas.

Just like a majority of Americans disapprove of Biden.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/

So, can we ignore any law he passes because his approval rating is less than 50%?

As a citizen, you bear the responsibility and the consequence of your government's actions, whether a law they pass or a war they start.

-----

https://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2015/summer/germany-japan-reconciliation/

At an event in Tokyo organized by the left-leaning newspaper Asahi Shimbun, Merkel referred to a 1985 speech by then West German president Richard von Weizsäcker, who called Germany's wartime defeat a "day of liberation." She added, "We Germans will never forget the hand of reconciliation that was extended to us after all the suffering that our country had brought to Europe and the world."


----

The Allies slaughtered over two million German civilians because of the action of the Nazis, which were never more than 35% of the population. Today, the German population does view themselves as a victim of a terrible genocide committed by the Allies, but thank the Allied forces for the hand of reconciliation that was extended to us after all the suffering that our country had brought to Europe and the world.

Sure, many, or maybe most, Pleastians don't want this. They can move south and get out of the way. They can rise against Hamas and remove them from the world.

Otherwise, like the German population, when this is over, they can thank the IDF for the hand of reconciliation that was extended to us after all the suffering that our country had brought to [Isreal] and the world.

----

These are the rules of war. Sorry, you don't like them and are desperate to change them to your Western progressive worldview for this specific circumstance (but not for the 500,000 killed in Ukraine in the last year; please point me to your 100 posts concerned about that).

I also understand the absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

[Hards Alumni]

Sorry I did not get back to you fast enough for your liking.

This summarizes my answer well.

Okay, so you admit you didn't know that some Israelis celebrate the dead civilians in Gaza.

Now you know.

[Hards Alumni]

I don't disagree that a majority of Palestinians may not like Hamas.

Just like a majority of Americans disapprove of Biden.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/

So, can we ignore any law he passes because his approval rating is less than 50%?

As a citizen, you bear the responsibility and the consequence of your government's actions, whether a law they pass or a war they start.

Equating a population that has been subjugated to almost 20 years of rule by an unelected government to the US is absolutely ridiculous.

Not a serious person.  Or not smart.  I'm no longer sure which.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

This isn't a free speech issue. It's a freedom of the press issue.  And the Post is the one who retains that right...not those who work for it.

Wondering why you didn't indicate that you lifted this from the Washington Free Beacon.  LOL.

The right seems simply incapable of understanding the meaning of "free speech". But Douchey has consistently shown he doesn't understand the meaning of many words.

The Washington Free Beacon is just the delicious icing on the cake.

[Pakuni]

As a citizen, you bear the responsibility and the consequence of your government's actions, whether alaw they pass or a war they start.

This ls the justification terrorist organizations use for attacking civilian targets and murdering noncombatants. It's how Al-Qaeda rationalized 9/11 and Hamas justifies killing innocents in a kibbutz or music festival.
Well done.

[Heisenberg]

Okay, so you admit you didn't know that some Israelis celebrate the dead civilians in Gaza.

Now you know.

I agree that some d-bags on social media said and did some terrible things.

Are you suggesting this means they deserved October 7? 

I also understand your absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

[Heisenberg]

This isn't a free speech issue. It's a freedom of the press issue.  And the Post is the one who retains that right...not those who work for it.

Wondering why you didn't indicate that you lifted this from the Washington Free Beacon.  LOL.

I did; their name is in there. Even you figured it out, which means anyone can figure it out.

Is this how you operate? You have a narrow set of news sources you read and ignore the rest; only sources that validate the Western Progressive worldview are accepted to validate what you want the world to be.

Could you tell me what was wrong in the post? Or are you incapable of reading it because of the words "Free Beacon?"

[Heisenberg]

Equating a population that has been subjugated to almost 20 years of rule by an unelected government to the US is absolutely ridiculous.

Not a serious person.  Or not smart.  I'm no longer sure which.

Explain the difference.

I'll repeat what I said above. Adding your distinction makes no difference

----

As a citizen, you bear the responsibility and the consequence of your government's actions, whether a law they pass or a war they start.

And again ....

I also understand your absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

[The Sultan]

I don't disagree that a majority of Palestinians may not like Hamas.

Just like a majority of Americans disapprove of Biden.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/joe-biden/

So, can we ignore any law he passes because his approval rating is less than 50%?

LOL...what????  What kind of nonsense leap of logic is that?

These are the rules of war. Sorry, you don't like them and are desperate to change them to your Western progressive worldview for this specific circumstance (but not for the 500,000 killed in Ukraine in the last year; please point me to your 100 posts concerned about that).

Actually that's not the case at all. Under the current rules of armed conflict, Israel has a responsibility to try to target their response to Hamas militants. This is according to the Geneva Convention, which has been signed by countries such as Israel, Iran, Palestine, etc.  So hardly an example of the "Western progressive worldview."

And yes, that means that certain Allied actions during WWII, such as the bombing of Dresden, may not have met the current standard. 

And I have hardly talked about this at all because I understand that this is a very complicated situation and I frankly don't believe what either party is saying. The truth will come out eventually and I can reserve judgement until then.

[The Sultan]

As a citizen, you bear the responsibility and the consequence of your government's actions, whether a law they pass or a war they start.

Nope.  As a citizen you bear responsibility to follow the law because that is part of the responsibility of being a citizen.

A non-combatant citizen doesn't bear responsibility for wars their governments start. If fact its clear under international law that they don't.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Explain the difference.

I'll repeat what I said above. Adding your distinction makes no difference

----

As a citizen, you bear the responsibility and the consequence of your government's actions, whether a law they pass or a war they start.

And again ....

I also understand your absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

Congrats. You have officially endorsed the ideology of every terrorist organization ever. Well done dumb dumb.

[Heisenberg]

The right seems simply incapable of understanding the meaning of "free speech". But Douchey has consistently shown he doesn't understand the meaning of many words.

The Washington Free Beacon is just the delicious icing on the cake.

Of course, a right-leaning source is going to point out the hypocrisy and inconsistency at that Washington Post;  do you expect this from another progressive anti-Isreal source like the New York Times or the BBC?

Are you not the least concerned about their bias and question them as an independent and neutral news source?

Speaking of the New York Times ... do you also find this delicious icing on the cake for your worldview?

Israeli envoy blasts NYT for rehiring reporter who praised Hitler
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-envoy-blasts-nyt-for-rehiring-reporter-who-praised-hitler/..

[Heisenberg]

Nope.  As a citizen you bear responsibility to follow the law because that is part of the responsibility of being a citizen.

A non-combatant citizen doesn't bear responsibility for wars their governments start. If fact its clear under international law that they don't.

They do when their government turns their country, hospital, or school into a military target.


I understand your absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

[The Sultan]

They do when their government turns their country, hospital, or school into a military target.

Nope. Wrong again.

[Uncle Rico]

https://youtu.be/AKN1Q5SjbeI?si=Ck17qIhC3VfT8F6S

[JWags85]

This is true, but has anyone actually said this, at least in the present case?

In an official statement? No.  But I've seen plenty of social media reaction (and not just from LebronLover23 or other Twitter eggs) that snap blanket it as "Israel clearly wants to silence all journalists who oppose their propaganda" or "We know Israel happily kills the press, disgusting"

The first statement is a simple and understandable misunderstanding of how many freelance photographers work. The second is, from all the evidence known so far, a false statement.

I'll take the second part first.
If you read the AP story I linked, the pro-Israeli media watchdog that was "just asking questions"
has now admitted that there's no evidence these journalists were riding shotgun with Hamas on Oct. 7. Not only that, that watchdog says it now accepts those journalists' explanations for their coverage that day and is satisfied that they did not know the attack was coming.
What exactly do you know that they don't? If you have something that shows they were riding shotgun with Hamas, please share.

As for freelance photographers, much of their work is done without assignment. In Chicago, for example, there are photographers and videographers who sit in their car with a police scanner all night listening for shootings, crashes, fires, etc. When something pops, they rush to the scene, shoot photo and video, and then sell it to the TV stations, websites and, occasionally, newspapers. They're not on assignment for any news organization or embedded with Chicago PD or Chicago FD. It's just how they work.
I imagine these freelancers in Gaza aren't all that different. They learn of something happening, rush to the scene and then sell their work to news organizations after the fact. They don't learn of a major attack and then wait for CNN or Reuters to tell them what to do. They go take pictures.

Why do you find it curious that Hamas would allow photographers to document the attack? They weren't exactly trying to keep it a secret. They very much wanted, and got, a public spectacle.

It's not a misunderstand of freelancers, but an objection to the broad label of "journalist".  I have a camera and a police scanner.  If I go jump into some criminal act and do nothing to curb it/aid the perpetrators explicitly or implicitly, I shouldn't be considered one of them cause hey I have a camera and want to sell it to CNN? 

I think someone with a camera documenting an active kidnapping/murder spree/etc... is different than someone taking pictures of a fire or the aftermath of a shooting in a city.  But people commenting on this and being outraged by Israel are acting like these were people in PRESS vest doing their jobs in an official capacity that Israel has a vendetta against.

"Riding shotgun" was very poor phrasing on my part almost solely because I recall seeing a one of the freelancers taking a photo from the back of a pickup. I was more referring to being in the mix of the active ongoing massacre, not arriving in the aftermath.

As for your last point, yes Hamas was being quite public about it, but they were also slaughtering anyone amongst the civilians in Israel, so how are they ok with photographers literally amongst them documenting it if they weren't familiar/friendly with them? Because from what I was reading this wasn't footage or photos hours after the fact, but very much while attacks are ongoing and civilians were still being killed.

Like I said in a previous post, this isn't black and white, very much shades of grey.  And I would be interested in finding out more about the actual circumstances some of this documenting was being taken during. 

[Heisenberg]

Congrats. You have officially endorsed the ideology of every terrorist organization ever. Well done dumb dumb.

Israel's right to defend itself, and that means civilians will die, just like in the Ukraine war, which has now killed over 500,000. The Ukrainians are paying the price of their government's actions as well. Please point me to your post about the moral equivalence between Ukraine and Russia.

This is how war works; it is ugly.

And for you too ... I also understand your absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

[The Sultan]

Israel's right to defend itself, and that means civilians will die, just like in the Ukraine war, which has now killed over 500,000. The Ukrainians are paying the price of their government's actions as well. Please point me to your post about the moral equivalence between Ukraine and Russia.

This is how war works; it is ugly.

Uh...no kidding to all of this.  But that's not exactly what you said, so once again you're shifting goalposts

And for you too ... I also understand your absolute necessity for you to find moral equivalence. You're not going to get it.

You keep saying this, but I don't think you have any idea what it means. No one is trying to find moral equivalence. We're trying to correct your obvious factual errors and leaps in logic.

[Pakuni]

Moral equivalence is the new western progressive values, i.e. a phrase repeated meainglessly ad nauseum.