Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[Heisenberg]

Bolded:  Yes, quite a few.  Monstrous behavior isn't limited to the people you don't like, Muggsy.

You answered yes to this.

Are Israeli Jews celebrating Gazan children that are being killed?

Please provide a source

[Heisenberg]

Terrorism is bad.

Collective punishment is bad.

Who is collectively punishing whom?

Do you mean those chanting "from the river ..." because that is a call for collective punishment?

[MuggsyB]

The Arab and Islamic world gives a total of 0.00000% about the Palestinians other than using them as pawns.  If you refuse to see this you are either ignorant or dishonest.   I also don't believe the echo chamber here cares about them either. Remind me of your cries about Syrians being gassed, the Kurds, the Uyghurs, the Muslims in Mynmar, etc, etc, etc, etc.  Israel is not the problem.  All of you need to wake up and deal with reality.   They were barbarically attacked mind you.  None of you have made any realistic suggestions as to what they should do other than what they're doing right now.

[Heisenberg]

Admiration was probably the wrong word. Respect for their viewpoint in this arena is probably more accurate.  If not,  I apologize.

Universities do have to fund kkk and proud boy orgs that meet all the requirements for a student org (most require a significant number of registered students which eliminates most attempts at KKK type orgs but allows for things like turning point).
Universities don't have to fund every organization. But they do have to make all funding decisions in a viewpoint nuetral manner.

That requierment was established in a supreme court case that actually involved UW Madison. Brandeis' president made it explicitly clear that the reason they are defunding this org is because they don't agree with their speech. They will get sued, they will lose (settle), and they will end up directly funding antisemites as a result. It was a short sighted decision.

Nov. 9, 2023 Updated 6:00 p.m. ET
After Antisemitic Attacks, Colleges Debate What Kind of Speech Is Out of Bounds
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/antisemitic-speech-palestine-israel-protests.html
Pro-Palestinian students say that they are speaking up for an oppressed people, but critics say that their rhetoric is deeply offensive.

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cxv78UcpUEl/?igshid=Mno4MzhpcjRqd3Rj

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The Arab and Islamic world gives a total of 0.00000% about the Palestinians other than using them as pawns.  If you refuse to see this you are either ignorant or dishonest.   I also don't believe the echo chamber here cares about them either. Remind me of your cries about Syrians being gassed, the Kurds, the Uyghurs, the Muslims in Mynmar, etc, etc, etc, etc.  Israel is not the problem.  All of you need to wake up and deal with reality.   They were barbarically attacked mind you.  None of you have made any realistic suggestions as to what they should do other than what they're doing right now.

[jesmu84]

Who is collectively punishing whom?

Do you mean those chanting "from the river ..." because that is a call for collective punishment?

Israel to Palestinians. Siege includes blockage of food, water, medicine

[jesmu84]

Nov. 9, 2023 Updated 6:00 p.m. ET
After Antisemitic Attacks, Colleges Debate What Kind of Speech Is Out of Bounds
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/09/us/antisemitic-speech-palestine-israel-protests.html
Pro-Palestinian students say that they are speaking up for an oppressed people, but critics say that their rhetoric is deeply offensive.

More cancel culture and anti-free speech

Tucker and Glenn were correct, sadly

[JWags85]

Israel to Palestinians. Siege includes blockage of food, water, medicine

I'm not like H20 suggesting that all Palestinians are culpable or whatnot.  But I really don't think the blockade/siege is as black and white as people make it out to be.  You have the history of Hamas intercepting/repurposing humanitarian aid for whatever they please, be it money or supplies.  Then you have the evidence and video of them killing Gazan civilians that defy their orders to stay and it further disproves the idea of them ever doing what is right for the actual non Hamas affiliated Gazan population, including what happens to supplies if they are not blockaded.

  If you are of the firm stance that Palestinians should not have anything withheld, even if it means aiding and strengthening Hamas, I can understand and accept that.  But if you aren't that direct or blunt about it, it's not outrageous to think Israel has intentions for a blockade other than wanton and sadistic cruelty.

[jesmu84]

I'm not like H20 suggesting that all Palestinians are culpable or whatnot.  But I really don't think the blockade/siege is as black and white as people make it out to be.  You have the history of Hamas intercepting/repurposing humanitarian aid for whatever they please, be it money or supplies.  Then you have the evidence and video of them killing Gazan civilians that defy their orders to stay and it further disproves the idea of them ever doing what is right for the actual non Hamas affiliated Gazan population, including what happens to supplies if they are not blockaded.

  If you are of the firm stance that Palestinians should not have anything withheld, even if it means aiding and strengthening Hamas, I can understand and accept that.  But if you aren't that direct or blunt about it, it's not outrageous to think Israel has intentions for a blockade other than wanton and sadistic cruelty.

You didn't say anything incorrect.

But. Israel is still doling out collective punishment

[forgetful]

Of course, pressure is also coming from Hamas, which started the war with a brutal assault that gave no quarter to women and children. They took innocents hostage and still hold those people. And they would wipe Israel off the face of the earth if they could.

Like some others you named, Hamas leaders also are waging a PR war, and one way they win is if they can convince enough people that Israel is the true evil transgressor.

Unfortunately, they appear to be winning that war. Even many of those who agree that Hamas started it and must be stopped often quickly follow with, "but Israel ... "

Aside from that omission, your post makes a lot of outstanding points.

We are in agreement in regards to all of the above.

My "the pressure on the hostage side..." was strictly in regards to the sentiments of many of the families of the hostages, and the countries trying to negotiate their release. That, their concerns, in many regards run contrary to Israel's primary mission at hand, i.e. to neutralize/eliminate Hamas.

I fear my wording might have conveyed the wrong message.

[forgetful]

I'm not like H20 suggesting that all Palestinians are culpable or whatnot.  But I really don't think the blockade/siege is as black and white as people make it out to be.  You have the history of Hamas intercepting/repurposing humanitarian aid for whatever they please, be it money or supplies.  Then you have the evidence and video of them killing Gazan civilians that defy their orders to stay and it further disproves the idea of them ever doing what is right for the actual non Hamas affiliated Gazan population, including what happens to supplies if they are not blockaded.

  If you are of the firm stance that Palestinians should not have anything withheld, even if it means aiding and strengthening Hamas, I can understand and accept that.  But if you aren't that direct or blunt about it, it's not outrageous to think Israel has intentions for a blockade other than wanton and sadistic cruelty.

Israeli military officials were acknowledging on TV that they were aware that Hamas had already stockpiled fuel, food, water, medicine, etc. that they would need for any military defense/operations.

So they knew/were aware that Hamas had no need for the humanitarian aid (food, water, medicine). They withheld it anyways. Why?

Separate. Israel is falsely accusing freelance journalists of being complicit in the attack and is reportedly adding them to an assassination list (note: Assassinations are illegal under international law).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67375667

[Heisenberg]

You didn't say anything incorrect.

But. Israel is still doling out collective punishment

The purpose is not to "dole out collective punishment." The objective is to wipe out Hamas. The unfortunate collateral damage is the suffering of the population that allowed Hamas to be its Governmental leader.

What Israel is doing is an acceptable way to process a war. (note: war is ugly and hard to look at)

In WW2, the Nazi party never more than 35% of the German population. But the Allies killed two million German civilians. The German people never cried victim; they understood they were responsible for allowing the Nazi party to be their government and accepted the punishment that was "doled out in a collective way" to eliminate the Nazis.

Try as you might, there is no moral equivalence.

[Heisenberg]

Israeli military officials were acknowledging on TV that they were aware that Hamas had already stockpiled fuel, food, water, medicine, etc. that they would need for any military defense/operations.

So they knew/were aware that Hamas had no need for the humanitarian aid (food, water, medicine). They withheld it anyways. Why?

Separate. Israel is falsely accusing freelance journalists of being complicit in the attack and is reportedly adding them to an assassination list (note: Assassinations are illegal under international law).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67375667

You picked the most anti-Isreal news outlet in the Western World ... the BBC

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/9/israel-calls-ap-cnn-reuters-new-york-times-investi/

The AP, Reuters and New York Times have denied having advance knowledge of the Oct. 7 attack, while CNN has cut ties with Hassan Eslaiah, one of the freelance photographers who was working that day for AP.

"While we have not at this time found reason to doubt the journalistic accuracy of the work he has done for us, we have decided to suspend all ties with him," CNN told ynetnews, an Israeli outlet.

------

I love CNN's tortured explanation. He did nothing wrong, but we immediately fired him. 

[Heisenberg]

Has anyone on UCLA's campus beat a Pinata of Hamas?

----

https://www.themidwesterner.news/2023/11/beat-that-fkin-jew-ucla-students-batter-netanyahu-pinata/

'Beat that f**kin' Jew!' UCLA students batter Netanyahu piñata

"Beat that f**kin' Jew!" a woman yelled into a bullhorn as the crowd chanted, "Free, free Palestine."

At one point, a man grabbed the pinata and began punching it, ripping it off the rope and destroying it.

[jesmu84]

It's still collective punishment

[Hards Alumni]

You answered yes to this.

Are Israeli Jews celebrating Gazan children that are being killed?

Please provide a source

I guess you don't use social media.  Or know how to use google.

https://www.newsweek.com/israeli-influencers-are-mocking-palestinians-suffering-gaza-1838655

This is just a taste of it, unfortunately.  I don't have time to dig through numerous videos online, I'll leave that to you.

[Jockey]

Could someone explain the difference between an influencer and a d-bag?

I am unclear on this.

[Pakuni]

You picked the most anti-Isreal news outlet in the Western World ... the BBC

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2023/nov/9/israel-calls-ap-cnn-reuters-new-york-times-investi/

The BBC is biased, but we should read the Washington Times? Lol.

And now the "media watchdog" that has accused journalists of wrongdoing has admitted they have no evidence of wrongdoing.

Gil Hoffman, executive director of HonestReporting and a former reporter for The Jerusalem Post, admitted Thursday the group had no evidence to back up that suggestion. He said he was satisfied with subsequent explanations from several of these journalists that they did not know.
"They were legitimate questions to be asked," Hoffman said. Despite the name "HonestReporting," he said, "we don't claim to be a news organization."

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-photographers-attack-200be1ba47361f1c1fc113cdaeb65d04

How do you feel about Israeli politicians calling for the murder of journalists?

[Hards Alumni]

Could someone explain the difference between an influencer and a d-bag?

I am unclear on this.

POV

[Hards Alumni]

First, he denies something happens and then asks for a source.  Upon provided the source, attack the source.  If all else fails, ignore and move on to the next topic or outrage du jour.

It's why he is not a serious person.

[JWags85]

The BBC is biased, but we should read the Washington Times? Lol.

And now the "media watchdog" that has accused journalists of wrongdoing has admitted they have no evidence of wrongdoing.

Gil Hoffman, executive director of HonestReporting and a former reporter for The Jerusalem Post, admitted Thursday the group had no evidence to back up that suggestion. He said he was satisfied with subsequent explanations from several of these journalists that they did not know.
"They were legitimate questions to be asked," Hoffman said. Despite the name "HonestReporting," he said, "we don't claim to be a news organization."

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-photographers-attack-200be1ba47361f1c1fc113cdaeb65d04

How do you feel about Israeli politicians calling for the murder of journalists?

I don't believe any of the news organizations that used the work of these freelancers had advanced knowledge or were complicit in anything that happened on 10/7, that's lunacy.

That being said, I don't necessarily subscribe to the automatic "they are journalists, they did nothing wrong" thinking in this case.  They weren't on an assignment, they weren't credentialed war reporters with military forces in a global conflict.  They were sitting shotgun with a terrorist organization as that org rampaged through Israel murdering civilians.

It's not like this was Reuters/BBC/Al Jazeera's Gaza station chief or local correspondent we're talking about.  Given Hamas and the actions of that day, I find it curious that they would have no issue with non-allied photographers to just be snapping pictures of their activities.  And

I don't approve of assassination lists and deeming them a member of Hamas is reckless.  But like everything in this situation, it's not black and white

[The Sultan]

The purpose is not to "dole out collective punishment." The objective is to wipe out Hamas. The unfortunate collateral damage is the suffering of the population that allowed Hamas to be its Governmental leader.

You keep saying this as if somehow Gazans deserve their fate, but yet again you are playing pretty loose with any context.

In 2006, Palestine held elections where the party that represented Hamas received a plurality, but not a majority of the votes. The election focused almost entirely on the corruption of Fatah and the PLO.  Here is a quote from the head of the Palestinian National Initiative at the time, who was seeking to oust Fatah.

"Today was a great day for Palestine," said Mustafa Barghouti of the Palestinian National Initiative, a democratic opposition movement. "Mostly, they were voting for opposition and voting against Fatah -- against corruption, against nepotism, against the failure of the peace process, and against the lack of leadership."

Note the last sentence.  Exit polls shows that a vast majority of Palestinians at the time wanted a peace agreement with Israel. Here is a quote from the Palestinian President at the time.

"We are embarking on a new era, and we call on the international community to help us return to the negotiating table with the Israelis, to conclude a peace agreement and implement it," Abbas said at the end of the election.

After the elections, a "unity government" was formed with the leader of Hamas as prime minister. However in 2007, the militant wing of Hamas took over Gaza and the unity government was dissolved. Gaza has been ruled by those militants since.

So to be clear, the Palestinians did NOT vote for the militant leaders of Hamas who currently in control. Furthermore they WANTED peace with Israel.  The reason they don't have it is largely due to Hamas no doubt, but please stop with the repugnant "well, they deserve what they get" narrative.

[MU82]

I don't believe any of the news organizations that used the work of these freelancers had advanced knowledge or were complicit in anything that happened on 10/7, that's lunacy.

That being said, I don't necessarily subscribe to the automatic "they are journalists, they did nothing wrong" thinking in this case.  They weren't on an assignment, they weren't credentialed war reporters with military forces in a global conflict.  They were sitting shotgun with a terrorist organization as that org rampaged through Israel murdering civilians.

It's not like this was Reuters/BBC/Al Jazeera's Gaza station chief or local correspondent we're talking about.  Given Hamas and the actions of that day, I find it curious that they would have no issue with non-allied photographers to just be snapping pictures of their activities.  And

I don't approve of assassination lists and deeming them a member of Hamas is reckless.  But like everything in this situation, it's not black and white

Hmmm.

This thing reminds me of those who kept repeating that there were "irregularities" in the 2020 election despite having zero evidence of the alleged irregularities ... and then used their own accusations to justify election audits: "People are talking about irregularities in the election."

I'm not saying you did that, Wags. Nor am I saying one should subscribe to "the automatic they are journalists" defense, either. But maybe have a shred of evidence of malfeasance before calling to execute them?

[Hards Alumni]

I don't believe any of the news organizations that used the work of these freelancers had advanced knowledge or were complicit in anything that happened on 10/7, that's lunacy.

That being said, I don't necessarily subscribe to the automatic "they are journalists, they did nothing wrong" thinking in this case.  They weren't on an assignment, they weren't credentialed war reporters with military forces in a global conflict.  They were sitting shotgun with a terrorist organization as that org rampaged through Israel murdering civilians.

It's not like this was Reuters/BBC/Al Jazeera's Gaza station chief or local correspondent we're talking about.  Given Hamas and the actions of that day, I find it curious that they would have no issue with non-allied photographers to just be snapping pictures of their activities.  And

I don't approve of assassination lists and deeming them a member of Hamas is reckless.  But like everything in this situation, it's not black and white

If they weren't participating in the conflict they are journalists.  The fact that they were riding alongside Hamas terrorists doesn't change that fact.

But I will agree there is definitely some grey to this situation.