Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[The Sultan]

There are antisemitic Jews as we saw the other day when they were in the capital.  I don't know this woman but her being Jewish doesn't mean she isn't prejudiced.  We all read the ridiculous comments of Bernie Sanders. "All I want is no more innocent lives lost" is an absolutely moronic take based on what actually happened.  It would be like FDR after Pearl Harbor saying we won't fight in the Pacific because innocent lives will be lost.   Israeli citizens, not the military, were massacred Forgetful.  1500 of them which proportially would be 37,000 American citizens.  My suggestion would be to actually reflect on the events in Israel, in all of its detail on Oct. 7th.  Wake the H up.   

You can be anti-Israel without being antisemitic you know.

[Heisenberg]

From the sounds of it, Biden and McConnell are on the same page about the joint aid request to congress. They both believe that the Ukraine/Israel/Taiwan & US/Mexican border efforts should be combined and funded as one.

[Heisenberg]

You can be anti-Israel without being antisemitic you know.

Yes, it's called Anti-Zionism

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

You can be anti-Israel without being antisemitic you know.

Also probably shouldn't tell someone who is Jewish what they should or should not believe about Judaism and Israel. That in itself is anti-semitism tbh.

[Hards Alumni]

Yes, it's called Anti-Zionism

Which is different from antisemitism.

[Uncle Rico]

So, America is supporting Israel with money, military aid and almost certainly intelligence across party lines

What more should they do?

[Heisenberg]

It's interesting to see another person who thinks a free Palestine means the extermination of the Jewish people.  You do realize how unhinged that mentality is, right?

No one should take you seriously, since you are clearly not a serious person.

So, you're redefining "Free Palestine " to mean what you want it to mean. This is the conceit we have. Words and statements mean what we want them to mean, and nothing more.

Please tell us what you think "Free Palestine" means and why the world has been wrong for decades to take it to be a call to exterminate the Jewish Race.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

So, America is supporting Israel with money, military aid and almost certainly intelligence across party lines

What more should they do?

Every single one of our brands need to denounce terrorism. Consider me done eating real chili for them not denouncing to their 183 followers on twitter.

[MuggsyB]

You can be anti-Israel without being antisemitic you know.

You can criticize the Israeli government without being antisemitic. That's different from being Anti-Israel and not accepting they have a right to exist based on their history and subsequent events since the Balfour Declaration.  If you reject that Israel should be a Jewish homeland, based on whatever borders since 1948, you are antisemitic.

[Heisenberg]

Which is different from antisemitism.

The ADL thinks otherwise.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/anti-zionism-antisemitism-how-anti-zionist-language-left-and-right-vilifies-jews

While anti-Zionism is indeed antisemitism, anti-Zionism is much more socially acceptable than classic antisemitism. The result is that many anti-Zionist activists can embed historic antisemitic tropes in their criticism of Israel without significant pushback. This report attempts to explicate how this troubling issue manifests in the United States and provides numerous examples of anti-Zionists who espouse classic antisemitic themes in their rhetoric.

[The Sultan]

You can criticize the Israeli government without being antisemitic. That's different from being Anti-Israel and not accepting they have a right to exist based on their history and subsequent events since the Balfour Declaration.  If you reject that Israel should be a Jewish homeland, based on whatever borders since 1948, you are antisemitic.

Israel has a right exist now. No doubt.

[Uncle Rico]

Every single one of our brands need to denounce terrorism. Consider me done eating real chili for them not denouncing to their 183 followers on twitter.

There's the rub, aina?  Free speech for thee, not for me. 

Listen, there are consequences for saying controversial things and if Bernie Sanders not wanting more bloodshed is one of those things, then his constituents will decide his fate. 

Demanding someone's speech to match their expectation isn't exactly free

[forgetful]

No, I disliked your reference to not having a problem "from the River to the Sea" and how you thought it was reasonable.

And you're correct. Defending a statement calling for the extermination of the Jewish race will not advance the discussion.

And to be clear on the gravity of this statement, Marc Lamont Hill used these six words in 2018, and CNN immediately fired him because everyone knows what these words mean ... six words you do not have a problem with.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/29/media/marc-lamont-hill-cnn/index.html

If you think I said any of that, you are ridiculously wrong.

The concept of "From the River to the Sea" is wrong, and is the cause of all the violence in the Middle East. That is the primary concept that has blocked establishing a two-state solution. You clearly missed, or ignored my entire argument.

I'm not going to restate it all here, because I deleted it since the reasonable people on here (which is the vast vast vast majority) already are aware of some of the historically complicated nuances of the situation, and those that are in the fringe minority calling for bombs to reign down on everyone will ignore, or intentionally misstate/misread what was said, in which case I'm not advancing the discussion and it serves no purpose.

And Muggsy, I've denounced Hamas' actions in this thread multiple times. They are appalling acts of terrorism. Everyone here agrees on that. That doesn't mean we have to start WWIII, and that doesn't mean we (who are not decision makers in any of this) cannot critically evaluate the history of the problem and show compassion to all innocent lives being lost right now.

[Hards Alumni]

So, you're redefining "Free Palestine " to mean what you want it to mean. This is the conceit we have. Words and statements mean what we want them to mean, and nothing more.

Please tell us what you think "Free Palestine" means and why the world has been wrong for decades to take it to be a call to exterminate the Jewish Race.

I know what you're trying to get at, look, I do.  But when people say Free Palestine, they're not calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.  Some lunatics in places in the Middle East may, but I assure you when you ask the average Westerner, they do not.  They want all of the people in the region to be on equal footing.  They want no more wanton destruction and murder.  They don't want to see Palestinians being oppressed, they don't want people losing their homes.  That's what they mean.

If you want to be overly pedantic that's fine.  Go off.  Call me names, call everyone names, stamp your foot, break your keyboard.  I don't care.

BUT, you're being intellectually disingenuous if you truly believe that when most people say they want to see a free Palestine, they mean, "KILL ALL JEWS".

[Heisenberg]

If you think I said any of that, you are ridiculously wrong.

The concept of "From the River to the Sea" is wrong, and is the cause of all the violence in the Middle East. That is the primary concept that has blocked establishing a two-state solution. You clearly missed, or ignored my entire argument.

I'm not going to restate it all here, because I deleted it since the reasonable people on here (which is the vast vast vast majority) already are aware of some of the historically complicated nuances of the situation, and those that are in the fringe minority calling for bombs to reign down on everyone will ignore, or intentionally misstate/misread what was said, in which case I'm not advancing the discussion and it serves no purpose.

And Muggsy, I've denounced Hamas' actions in this threat multiple times. They are appalling acts of terrorism. Everyone here agrees on that. That doesn't mean we have to start WWIII, and that doesn't mean we (who are not decision makers in any of this) cannot critically evaluate the history of the problem and show compassion to all innocent lives being lost right now.

Nice dodge, and you might get away with it if there were not 51 pages laced with your antisemitism and moral equivalency.

Further, if it were as innocent as you describe, you would not have deleted it 75 minutes later.

[Hards Alumni]

The ADL thinks otherwise.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/anti-zionism-antisemitism-how-anti-zionist-language-left-and-right-vilifies-jews

While anti-Zionism is indeed antisemitism, anti-Zionism is much more socially acceptable than classic antisemitism. The result is that many anti-Zionist activists can embed historic antisemitic tropes in their criticism of Israel without significant pushback. This report attempts to explicate how this troubling issue manifests in the United States and provides numerous examples of anti-Zionists who espouse classic antisemitic themes in their rhetoric.

LOL THE ADL.

[Uncle Rico]

LOL THE ADL.

Let's take this a step further.  If you can't be critical of Israel the state without being labeled an anti-semite how does one do diplomacy with them?

Am I anti-slav for supporting Ukraine?  An islamophobe for criticizing Saudi Arabia?

[4everwarriors]

You can be anti-Israel without being antisemitic you know.

Wrong, hey?

[MuggsyB]

Let's take this a step further.  If you can't be critical of Israel the state without being labeled an anti-semite how does one do diplomacy with them?

Am I anti-slav for supporting Ukraine?  An islamophobe for criticizing Saudi Arabia?

You clearly don't get it Reeko.  Israel is as divided as we are politically.  They're not divided about what happened on Oct. 7th.

[Heisenberg]

I know what you're trying to get at, look, I do.  But when people say Free Palestine, they're not calling for the extermination of the Jewish people.  Some lunatics in places in the Middle East may, but I assure you when you ask the average Westerner, they do not.  They want all of the people in the region to be on equal footing.  They want no more wanton destruction and murder.  They don't want to see Palestinians being oppressed, they don't want people losing their homes.  That's what they mean.

If you want to be overly pedantic that's fine.  Go off.  Call me names, call everyone names, stamp your foot, break your keyboard.  I don't care.

BUT, you're being intellectually disingenuous if you truly believe that when most people say they want to see a free Palestine, they mean, "KILL ALL JEWS".

I assure you when you ask the average Westerner, they do not

This is my point! Uniformed Westerners think it is a Google Maps reference or a nursery rhyme, so they keep repeating it, thinking it is an innocent statement.

This phrase has a specific meaning, and yes, it was created by Luncatics in the Middle East (many of which you think don't lie about errant missiles hitting hospitals), hoping that uniformed Westerners will keep repeating it to make it a mainstream idea.

I'll ask again. From the River to the Sea (the Jordanian River to the Eastern Mediterranean), or the area now known as Isreal, Palestine will be free. So Israel will become Palestine.

So what happens to the 8 million Jews that live there now?

[Uncle Rico]

You clearly don't get it Reeko.  Israel is as divided as we are politically.  They're not divided about what happened on Oct. 7th.

Who said they were divided about October 7th?  What does that have to do with America?

[Heisenberg]

LOL THE ADL.

What is so funny about this organization and its mission? Why are you laughing at an organization trying to stop hatred of Jewish people just days after the most significant attack on Jews for being Jews since the Holocaust?

Anti-Deformation League
https://www.adl.org/about/mission-and-history
To stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.

[Uncle Rico]

What is so funny about this organization and its mission? Why are you laughing at an organization trying to stop hatred of Jewish people just days after the most significant attack on Jews for being Jews since the Holocaust?

Anti-Deformation League
https://www.adl.org/about/mission-and-history
To stop the defamation of the Jewish people and to secure justice and fair treatment to all.

What are your thoughts on Elon Musk's take on the ADL and their thoughts on Elon Musk?

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

This is actually rather remarkable polling

You almost never get a consensus like this

[Heisenberg]

What are your thoughts on Elon Musk's take on the ADL and their thoughts on Elon Musk?

Honestly, I don't care.

Secondly, Musk can do a better job of getting the garbage off the platform first before he whines about chasing advertisers off it.

Lastly, it is a good idea to charge $1/year to post (free to read). It will eliminate a lot of bots and force Anon accounts that spread hate to post their true identity with Twitter (because you cannot process a payment, even for $1, without it.)