Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[The Sultan]

Sounds like you want it to be Israel's fault. When choosing between the IDF version or the Hamas version, I choose IDF.

Or maybe these things don't require an immediate "take" right now.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

You didn't read it, did you?

Of course he didn't. And he didn't read the direct statement from BLM. Facts would just clutter his beautiful mind.

[Uncle Rico]

Or maybe these things don't require an immediate "take" right now.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Hards Alumni]

Sounds like you want it to be Israel's fault. When choosing between the IDF version or the Hamas version, I choose IDF.

I'm not sure where you're inferring that from.  Personally, they both have behaved poorly, historically.  I have no dog in any of this fight.  I just want the fighting to end.

[Uncle Rico]

I'm not sure where you're inferring that from.  Personally, they both have behaved poorly, historically.  I have no dog in any of this fight.  I just want the fighting to end.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[JWags85]

Or maybe these things don't require an immediate "take" right now.

That's sort of where I am.  My reply was just countering what Hards was stating as absolute fact.

You have a statement from IDF.  Then you have a statement from Gaza Health Ministry (Hamas), lots of reporting from Al-Jazeera which happens to be owned by the Middle Eastern government that harbors the heads of Hamas, and then a bunch of random faceless Twitter accounts who are experts in military video assessment, both for and against either side.

I think it's worth noting that now this is a full scale military engagement.  This isn't IDF/Israeli government harassing random Palestinians in their daily lives. Yes it's horrific that there are Palestinians caught in between, but right now this is Hamas versus Israel.

Why is this relevant? Because it's 2023 and a huge element of the war is it's coverage and media.  Hamas isn't some plucky band of rebels.  They have resources and backing, that every day Gazans don't have, to push information, narratives, PR as it suits them and their goals.  So this idea that there is just some complete media bias towards Israel and won't someone speak up for the Palestinian cause here isn't exactly accurate at this point.

Also, it's been repeated ad nauseum, but I always keep worth keeping in mind that Hamas couldn't care less about civilians and has everything to gain from their death.  And that's not a defense of Israel, it's just an unfortunate fact of the plight of Palestinians

[rocket surgeon]

Of course he didn't. And he didn't read the direct statement from BLM. Facts would just clutter his beautiful mind.

  what the f...yes i did...blm and hamas think alike but then when blm figured their old marketing plan, p!ssing on israel wasn't good for biness, they better change their tune...quickly as they did and you guys gobbled up their mea culpa like minnesota fats coming off his carb free diet

[Uncle Rico]

  what the f...yes i did...blm and hamas think alike but then when blm figured their old marketing plan, p!ssing on israel wasn't good for biness, they better change their tune...quickly as they did and you guys gobbled up their mea culpa like minnesota fats coming off his carb free diet

8 out of 10

[4everwarriors]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

Bingo, it won't end until Hamas no longer exists, aina?

[4everwarriors]

What would you call it if someone responded to one of Doc's posts with "ok moshe"?

Ewe kan just shortin it up ta just Moish, hey?

[Uncle Rico]

Bingo, it won't end until Hamas no longer exists, aina?

We'll all be dead before that happens

[Lennys Tap]

Because if I again point out, that I think Hamas was prodded by Iran to do this to scuttle a peace deal with Saudi Arabia. A crapshow of a response by Israel, could set that back years if not decades - and could jeopardize ones in place with UAE, Jordan and Egypt.

So Israel DOES have to be careful with its response.  Not just for the sake of not killing innocents, but because it might ruin its chance for more regional stability.

I agree with this analysis. The last thing Iran wants in the Middle East is the peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia. The horrific attack from Hamas was an attempt to provoke Israel. It did, as it would any country. It's a no win situation for Israel, so I guess they feel they have to go after Hamas first and worry about the rest of the region's reaction later.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

  what the f...yes i did...blm and hamas think alike but then when blm figured their old marketing plan, p!ssing on israel wasn't good for biness, they better change their tune...quickly as they did and you guys gobbled up their mea culpa like minnesota fats coming off his carb free diet

Dentist: blm is antisemtic

Pak: No, that isn't true, here's a link to the facts

Smith: No, that isn't true, those are fake, right-wing accounts posting disinformation. Here is BLM's direct statement

Dentist:...blm is antisemetic

BLM: "BLM Chicago is just some guy using our name. We do not support Hamas"

Dentist: blm is antisemetic!

[Hards Alumni]

"Congrats on eating the spoonfed MSM"...then posts something about/from a non-official Facebook account that was deleted, likely due to terms of use violations about impersonation.  While the actual Arabic IDF page still exists.  Thats in the same vein as that dipcrap BLM Chicago account from last week.

https://twitter.com/HananyaNaftali/status/1714400598991261966

[MuggsyB]

Professor Russell Rickford still has his job at Cornell for some reason.   We're learning that our elite universities have some severe problems.

[MU82]

I've gone on record several times saying Israel has every right to defend itself and I hope they wipe out Hamas. And I blame Hamas for the latest round of violence.
That said, I'm not of the belief that killing civilians - and in some instances, taking steps to intentionally harm civilians - is OK.  "Better their innocents than our innocents" is a false dilemma that presumes that Israel's only way to protect itself and eliminate Hamas is to kill innocents.
I'm not naive enough to not recognize that innocents will die during war. But I don't shrug my shoulders at it either and say "dems the breaks."
The killing of Palestinian kids shouldn't be any less horrific than the killing of Israeli kids. And, as long as we're trying on others' shoes, try on those of a Palestinian mother or father, who have nothing to do with Hamas, but just dragged their dead child out of the rubble of what was their home.

I neither said nor implied that I am "OK" with "intentionally harming civilians." Of course, intentionally harming civilians is something Hamas does as a way of life ... and it was something they provoked, against their own people, with their attack on Israel. I wish no innocents had to die at the hands of either side, but innocents do die during wars; it's a fact you have acknowledged.

You keep saying you hope Israel wipes out Hamas. Given the battleground Hamas has chosen -- hiding amongst civilians, hiding arms in hospitals and schools, etc -- how do you propose Israel do that while not hurting any innocent Palestinians?

War sucks, and I sure as sh!t don't have all the answers.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Professor Russell Rickford still has his job at Cornell for some reason.   We're learning that our elite universities have some severe problems.

We're just going to expand your plan and have Liam Neeson go and take all of them out as well.

[MuggsyB]

We're just going to expand your plan and have Liam Neeson go and take all of them out as well.

Maybe some of the Cornell students would find that "exhilarating". 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Professor Russell Rickford still has his job at Cornell for some reason.   We're learning that our elite universities have some severe problems.

His remarks were gross. They are also free speech. If they were to fire him, he would likely have grounds for a lawsuit and he would likely win. Do you want him to get paid millions of dollars for making gross remarks?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Maybe some of the Cornell students would find that "exhilarating".

You certainly would

[MuggsyB]

His remarks were gross. They are also free speech. If they were to fire him, he would likely have grounds for a lawsuit and he would likely win. Do you want him to get paid millions of dollars for making gross remarks?

Ya...I keep hearing that from the Ivy Presidents. The problem is we all know damn well if there were remarks from professors or students on a plethora of other topics they would be gone in like 10 minutes. 

[Pakuni]

I neither said nor implied that I am "OK" with "intentionally harming civilians."

I neither said nor implied that you do. I said I'm not OK with that. Nothing about you.
But what did you mean when wrote "better their innocents than our innocents?"

You keep saying you hope Israel wipes out Hamas. Given the battleground Hamas has chosen -- hiding amongst civilians, hiding arms in hospitals and schools, etc -- how do you propose Israel do that while not hurting any innocent Palestinians?

Well, as you note, I acknowledged that civilians will be killed. So, your question confuses me.
But I also acknowledge a difference between inadvertant civilian casualties and those that result from indiscriminate bombing and collective punishment. The justness of the Israeli cause - and I agree it is just - does not justify any means.

Should a school or hospital packed with children be blown up because Hamas might also have weapons inside?

[Pakuni]

Ya...I keep hearing that from the Ivy Presidents. The problem is we all know damn well if there were remarks from professors or students on a plethora of other topics they would be gone in like 10 minutes.

Citation needed.

[forgetful]

That's sort of where I am.  My reply was just countering what Hards was stating as absolute fact.

You have a statement from IDF.  Then you have a statement from Gaza Health Ministry (Hamas), lots of reporting from Al-Jazeera which happens to be owned by the Middle Eastern government that harbors the heads of Hamas, and then a bunch of random faceless Twitter accounts who are experts in military video assessment, both for and against either side.

I think it's worth noting that now this is a full scale military engagement.  This isn't IDF/Israeli government harassing random Palestinians in their daily lives. Yes it's horrific that there are Palestinians caught in between, but right now this is Hamas versus Israel.

Why is this relevant? Because it's 2023 and a huge element of the war is it's coverage and media.  Hamas isn't some plucky band of rebels.  They have resources and backing, that every day Gazans don't have, to push information, narratives, PR as it suits them and their goals.  So this idea that there is just some complete media bias towards Israel and won't someone speak up for the Palestinian cause here isn't exactly accurate at this point.

I agree with most of your post. One thing is definitely true, whoever bombed the hospital will deny it and use their media sources to cover it up and blame the other side.

Watching the videos that have been released, they do not appear to be consistent with a failed rocket launch.

If you forced me to make a guess right now. Hamas or other affiliated terrorist groups fired a rocket from/near the hospital. Israel responded with a strike.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Ya...I keep hearing that from the Ivy Presidents. The problem is we all know damn well if there were remarks from professors or students on a plethora of other topics they would be gone in like 10 minutes.

That's simply not true. I work in this area. We get complaints all the time about professors saying things that are conservative (I assume that's what you mean by "plethora of other topics") and 100% of them are still employed, even some that have said some truly despicable things. Honestly, the only areas where I do so professors getting fired for free speech is liberal professors at conservative religious universities (they typically have a little more latitude to police the speech of their employees when it contradicts religious values).

But I'm open to being proven wrong. Do you have any examples of Ivy League professors or students "being gone in ten minutes" for "remarks on a plethora of other topics"?