Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[4everwarriors]

What flag do y'all display outside your offices, hey?

[Pakuni]

What flag do y'all display outside your offices, hey?

[brewcity77]

This is, of course, the correct answer. 

[Uncle Rico]

What flag do y'all display outside your offices, hey?

Pride flag so I can drink the tears of evangelicals

[Spotcheck Billy]

What flag do y'all display outside your offices, hey?

The US flag and a MU flag.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

Dan Hurley displays Cooper Flagg

[Lennys Tap]

Which has been done to the Palestinian public through apartheid for 70+ years. Would you have advocated the "crush them" stance on the South African populace in the early 1990s? Did they need to remove the "cancer" of that subjugated population as well?

Palestine has been held in a state like this for generations already and as the events of the past week have shown it hasn't helped because there's never been a true effort and investment in improving their state. You may not be as blatant as Muggsy in here, but this kind of rhetoric is just as toxic.

Apartheid was/is an awful policy. Subjugating people because of their race or religion is wrong and inhuman. Saying that subjugating a group is the same thing as annihilating them is foolish. Your equivalencies are as false as they are dangerous.

[Pakuni]

Apartheid was/is an awful policy. Subjugating people because of their race or religion is wrong and inhuman. Saying that subjugating a group is the same thing as annihilating them is foolish. Your equivalencies are as false as they are dangerous.

We have now entered the "their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" stage of the conversation.

[Hards Alumni]

What flag do y'all display outside your offices, hey?

None, that would be virtue signaling.

[forgetful]

Reports: Won't Let Americans Leave, hey?

To follow up on this. The Wall Street Journal reports otherwise. Egypt wants humanitarian aid to go through if the gates are opened. Israel won't agree to not bomb the humanitarian aid. So everything sits idle.

https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u-s-push-for-gaza-border-opening-stumbles-as-humanitarian-plight-worsens-b825d122

[Lennys Tap]

We have now entered the "their atrocities are worse than our atrocities" stage of the conversation.

Yes. Genocide is worse than apartheid. That you have pause on that statement is troubling.

[Pakuni]

Yes. Genocide is worse than apartheid. That you have pause on that statement is troubling.

I see we've reached the "making sh*t up" stage of the conversation.

[brewcity77]

Apartheid was/is an awful policy. Subjugating people because of their race or religion is wrong and inhuman. Saying that subjugating a group is the same thing as annihilating them is foolish. Your equivalencies are as false as they are dangerous.

The United Nations, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch have all determined Israel holds Palestine as an apartheid state. I know it's easier to dodge the question than actually address it, but I asked you pretty straightforward questions based on your own words.

For the record, I find both apartheid and genocide to be evil practices that should not be employed. Which is why I cannot justify the practices of either Israel or Hamas. And I'm certainly not going to use one to excuse the other.

[JWags85]

Which has been done to the Palestinian public through apartheid for 70+ years.

This is simply not true.  It's semantics, but it's worthwhile cause it implies the minute Israel came into existence it subjugated Palestinians through apartheid as if it was a principle goal of the country.

Israel had no claim or presence in Gaza or West Bank for the first 20 years of its existence, unless you're claiming Palestinians were under apartheid from the Egyptians or Jordanians

I would also argue that if one was to consider Israel an apartheid state, then it didn't become that way until post-2005 Hamas control and the blockade. 

The second point is arguable, the first is not IMO.

One interesting point, putting aside Gaza, West Bank Palestinians don't have the same rights as Israeli citizens.  But absent a Palestinian state, would they actually want to be Israeli citizens?  I'm sure it's mixed opinion.  But yet another example of the way that there really can't be any progress from the place we've gotten short of a two state solution, it's gotten too polarized.

[Lennys Tap]

The United Nations, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch have all determined Israel holds Palestine as an apartheid state. I know it's easier to dodge the question than actually address it, but I asked you pretty straightforward questions based on your own words.

For the record, I find both apartheid and genocide to be evil practices that should not be employed. Which is why I cannot justify the practices of either Israel or Hamas. And I'm certainly not going to use one to excuse the other.

I did answer your question. Segregation and discrimination are abhorrent policies. People can, should and have successfully lobbied against them. When the goal is genocide lobbying won't save you from the gas chamber or the beheading.

Of course they're both wrong. But they're not remotely the same. Saying "they're both wrong" misses the larger point that one is way, way more wrong - the most wrong thing that any group can try to visit on another. It makes your argument dishonest.

[Pakuni]

Of course they're both wrong. But they're not remotely the same. Saying "they're both wrong" misses the larger point that one is way, way more wrong - the most wrong thing that any group can try to visit on another. It makes your argument dishonest.

Why is it important to rank the atrocities?

[Lennys Tap]

Why is it important to rank the atrocities?

Who was more evil, dangerous and in need of being taken out - de Klerk or Hitler?

[rocket surgeon]

None, that would be virtue signaling.

  what did you do with your antisemitic blm flag?  give it to ww?

i proudly fly the USA & MU flags

[Uncle Rico]

  what did you do with your antisemitic blm flag?  give it to ww?

i proudly fly the USA & MU flags

Both would like you to take them down

[Pakuni]

Who was more evil, dangerous and in need of being taken out - de Klerk or Hitler?

So ... why not both?
This is where you're badly missing the point. There's no need to spin a false narrative where we have to choose between murderous terrorists on one side and an oppressive apartheid regime on the other.
The only correct answer is to reject BOTH evils.

To be sure, we should support Israel's right to defend itself and bring justice to those responsible for the Oct. 7 attacks. And for other geopolitical reasons, Israel is an ally and should continue to be an ally. But that doesn't mean we should accept their misdeeds, or twist ourselves in pretzels trying to defend them with arguments like yours. Instead, we should use our relationship with them to dissuade them from their worst instincts and encourages them to seek an equitable solution.

Right now, Israel is waging a war to wipe out Hamas, and I hope they achieve that goal. But when this is over, they're still going to be surrounded by Palestinians and other Arabs. And they're going to have to find a peace with them, one that hopefully avoids oppressing their neighbors. Otherwise, it's lather, rinse repeat.

But in the meantime, have fun with stupid and pointless internet debates over which sides' bad behavior is worse.

[Pakuni]

  what did you do with your antisemitic blm flag?  give it to ww?

i proudly fly the USA & MU flags

Criticism of BLM?
Racist.

[MuggsyB]

So ... why not both?
This is where you're badly missing the point. There's no need to spin a false narrative where we have to choose between murderous terrorists on one side and an oppressive apartheid regime on the other.
The only correct answer is to reject BOTH evils.

To be sure, we should support Israel's right to defend itself and bring justice to those responsible for the Oct. 7 attacks. And for other geopolitical reasons, Israel is an ally and should continue to be an ally. But that doesn't mean we should accept their misdeeds, or twist ourselves in pretzels trying to defend them with arguments like yours. Instead, we should use our relationship with them to dissuade them from their worst instincts and encourages them to seek an equitable solution.

Right now, Israel is waging a war to wipe out Hamas, and I hope they achieve that goal. But when this is over, they're still going to be surrounded by Palestinians and other Arabs. And they're going to have to find a peace with them, one that hopefully avoids oppressing their neighbors. Otherwise, it's lather, rinse repeat.

But in the meantime, have fun with stupid and pointless internet debates over which sides' bad behavior is worse.

Thank you for reiterating your point of view.  Israel is evil and I assume you think the United States is evil as well.  And as we have seen, all of the Arab states are willing to take in the Palestinians and help them as much as possible.  Meanwhile, in Pakumi world, don't compare the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and others, to the  USA or Israel.  The level of evilness is exactly the same. 

[Uncle Rico]

Thank you for reiterating your point of view.  Israel is evil and I assume you think the United States is evil as well.  And as we have seen, all of the Arab states are willing to take in the Palestinians and help them as much as possible.  Meanwhile, in Pakumi world, don't compare the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and others, to the  USA or Israel.  The level of evilness is exactly the same.

He's said nothing of the sort

[forgetful]

Thank you for reiterating your point of view.  Israel is evil and I assume you think the United States is evil as well.  And as we have seen, all of the Arab states are willing to take in the Palestinians and help them as much as possible.  Meanwhile, in Pakumi world, don't compare the atrocities of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao and others, to the  USA or Israel.  The level of evilness is exactly the same.

You advocate for all this death and destruction, including any civilians caught in the crossfire as some magic way to solve this problem.

I want you to imagine yourself, huddling in a bombed out building with your pregnant wife, and young children. You have supported peace and were against Hamas' actions your entire life. You have no food, water, or medicine for your wife and children. All calls for aid were denied. Aid trucks were either bombed or threatened to be bombed.

You are going to watch your wife and children slowly die of starvation and lack of clean water. All while people on the other side say you deserve to die, that you are "animals."

If you happen to live through all of that, having lost everything. What do you do next?

[MuggsyB]

He's said nothing of the sort

Translate what he said and how it makes sense.