Was: Israel is at War; Now: Scoopers diagnose your anti-Semitism

[jesmu84]

The was a coordinated attack essentially from Iran designed to bring the Middle East into total chaos, and it was absolutely gruesome in nature.  Iran 2nd biggest enemy is the United States.  If you think this has no impact on us you're sorely mistaken nor is it really a "religious war".

Israel has never done anything gruesome to the Palestinians?

[jesmu84]

Rocky,

I think this could take some time and that this is a much different military operation than we've seen from Israel in the past.  Unless they use hard power but since the world is vehemently antisemitic the optics would be really bad.  All you need to know is Qatar condemned Israel.  This is a s-show.  And if we think losing Israel as our only democratic partner in the region is a prudent decision we better think again.

What????

[Uncle Rico]

What????

There is a lot of antisemitism in this world.  He's not wrong about that.  Our country is rife with it, across all political spectrums. 

We pay lip service to fighting it in my opinion and I'm someone who doesn't support Israeli actions largely when it comes to Gaza and the West Bank. 

[MuggsyB]

Where did I say it didn't have an impact on us?  I said our diplomatic activities have been mostly wrong through all administrations.

And again, it's all based in religion, the world's greatest killer.  Fighting over holy sites and land.  For centuries.

The religious component  of the conflict is that Hamas/Iran want to wipe Israel off the map.  We could have a lengthy discussion about the history of the Palestinians and Jews in that region since the Balfour Declaration in 1917 if you want?   The British fked up that partition pledge and it led to a colossal mess.  But there are many things that happened since, under a number of countries and governments, where the only constant has been Palestinians being used as pawns.

[MuggsyB]

What????

If any other country was attacked in this manner the worldwide response would be much different.

[Uncle Rico]

 

The religious component  of the conflict is that Hamas/Iran want to wipe Israel off the map.  We could have a lengthy discussion about the history of the Palestinians and Jews in that region since the Balfour Declaration in 1917 if you want?   The British fked up that partition pledge and it led to a colossal mess.  But there are many things that happened since, under a number of countries and governments, where the only constant has been Palestinians being used as pawns.

Correct, religion kills with unrelenting fury.  It's the greatest plague on humanity

[forgetful]

If any other country was attacked in this manner the worldwide response would be much different.

Turkey routinely attacks Syria. No response.

Azerbaijan has been attacking and taking territory from Armenia. No response.

Israel in the last year has made unilateral attacks on Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon, and it is just accepted.

Heck, last year Israel murdered a journalist, and no one cared.

Conflicts are going on around the world. No one cares unless it threatens western interests. Everyone else gets a pass.

[Jockey]

Turkey routinely attacks Syria. No response.

Azerbaijan has been attacking and taking territory from Armenia. No response.

Israel in the last year has made unilateral attacks on Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon, and it is just accepted.

Heck, last year Israel murdered a journalist, and no one cared.

Conflicts are going on around the world. No one cares unless it threatens western interests. Everyone else gets a pass.

This.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Rocky,

I think this could take some time and that this is a much different military operation than we've seen from Israel in the past.  Unless they use hard power but since the world is vehemently antisemitic the optics would be really bad.  All you need to know is Qatar condemned Israel.  This is a s-show.  And if we think losing Israel as our only democratic partner in the region is a prudent decision we better think again. 

This is all a response to Saudi Arabia and Israel moving closer to one another. And the battle here isn't one of religion, but one of the balance of power in the Mideast between Iran (and its ally Qatar) and SA.

Iran is hoping that Israel's response will make it politically difficult for SA to make peace with Israel.

And the Palestinians will be the ones who suffer.

[JWags85]

Israel has never done anything gruesome to the Palestinians?

Bothsiderism in response to an attack by a terrorist organization specifically targeting, including kidnapping, civilians isn't a great look.

Israeli soldiers have done some awful things and the Israeli government should be criticized for how they've handled (or not handled) those crimes.  But to pretend the goals and tactics/strategies of Hamas/Hezbollah and the IDF are at all similar or mirrors of each other is just ignorant.

[forgetful]

Bothsiderism in response to an attack by a terrorist organization specifically targeting, including kidnapping, civilians isn't a great look.

Israeli soldiers have done some awful things and the Israeli government should be criticized for how they've handled (or not handled) those crimes.  But to pretend the goals and tactics/strategies of Hamas/Hezbollah and the IDF are at all similar or mirrors of each other is just ignorant.

What is being left out of this a lot by media. Is armed far-right Israeli's have raided the Al-Aqsa mosque numerous times this year, including government officials. Despite Arab outcry, the Israeli government did nothing. Right before this most recent uprising, the Israeli military protected Jewish settlers (who have been calling for the destruction of the mosque) entering the mosque compound.

Those actions were known to be raising tensions, it was warned that continued violation of the mosque compound would not go without a response.

The end results (bombing, incursions, kidnappings) are uncalled for, but anyone could see that a new uprising was coming, and individuals kept pushing the buttons to drive it to conflict.

[MuggsyB]

This is all a response to Saudi Arabia and Israel moving closer to one another. And the battle here isn't one of religion, but one of the balance of power in the Mideast between Iran (and its ally Qatar) and SA.

Iran is hoping that Israel's response will make it politically difficult for SA to make peace with Israel.

And the Palestinians will be the ones who suffer.

Correct.

[jesmu84]

Bothsiderism in response to an attack by a terrorist organization specifically targeting, including kidnapping, civilians isn't a great look.

Israeli soldiers have done some awful things and the Israeli government should be criticized for how they've handled (or not handled) those crimes.  But to pretend the goals and tactics/strategies of Hamas/Hezbollah and the IDF are at all similar or mirrors of each other is just ignorant.

Just trying to get muggsy to see, or least engage with, the idea that Israel has done some pretty gross stuff.

[jesmu84]

Turkey routinely attacks Syria. No response.

Azerbaijan has been attacking and taking territory from Armenia. No response.

Israel in the last year has made unilateral attacks on Syria, Iraq, and Lebanon, and it is just accepted.

Heck, last year Israel murdered a journalist, and no one cared.

Conflicts are going on around the world. No one cares unless it threatens western interests. Everyone else gets a pass.

Well said.

Muggsy head in the sand.

[4everwarriors]

The Buffoon urges Israel to use "restraint" in its response. What?  This after gifting Iran $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes" and loosening oil sales, hey?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The Buffoon urges Israel to use "restraint" in its response. What?  This after gifting Iran $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes" and loosening oil sales, hey?

Here's the White House official statement.  Try not to be a brainless partisan hack for once.

"This morning, I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in Israel.  The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel. Terrorism is never justified. Israel has a right to defend itself and its people. The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation.  My Administration's support for Israel's security is rock solid and unwavering."


Anyway, this is the exact reason Hamas attacked.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/04/saudi-mega-deal-biden-israel-normalization-palestinian-talks

"Senior Biden advisers quietly visited Saudi Arabia last week to continue talks on a potential mega-deal that could include a peace agreement between the kingdom and Israel, two sources with direct knowledge of the issue told Axios."

[Uncle Rico]

Here's the White House official statement.  Try not to be a brainless partisan hack for once.

"This morning, I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in Israel.  The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel. Terrorism is never justified. Israel has a right to defend itself and its people. The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation.  My Administration's support for Israel's security is rock solid and unwavering."


Anyway, this is the exact reason Hamas attacked.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/04/saudi-mega-deal-biden-israel-normalization-palestinian-talks

"Senior Biden advisers quietly visited Saudi Arabia last week to continue talks on a potential mega-deal that could include a peace agreement between the kingdom and Israel, two sources with direct knowledge of the issue told Axios."

Fox News hadn't reported that official response yet but have had a lot of Republican congress members on in the meantime

[WhiteTrash]

Fox News hadn't reported that official response yet but have had a lot of Republican congress members on in the meantime

Maybe you shouldn't just watch Fox News. Just a thought.

[Jockey]

The Buffoon urges Israel to use "restraint" in its response. What?  This after gifting Iran $6 billion for "humanitarian purposes" and loosening oil sales, hey?

Do you ever post anything with even a speck of truth in it?

[WhiteTrash]

Here's the White House official statement.  Try not to be a brainless partisan hack for once.

"This morning, I spoke with Prime Minister Netanyahu about the horrific and ongoing attacks in Israel.  The United States unequivocally condemns this appalling assault against Israel by Hamas terrorists from Gaza, and I made clear to Prime Minister Netanyahu that we stand ready to offer all appropriate means of support to the Government and people of Israel. Terrorism is never justified. Israel has a right to defend itself and its people. The United States warns against any other party hostile to Israel seeking advantage in this situation.  My Administration's support for Israel's security is rock solid and unwavering."


Anyway, this is the exact reason Hamas attacked.

https://www.axios.com/2023/10/04/saudi-mega-deal-biden-israel-normalization-palestinian-talks

"Senior Biden advisers quietly visited Saudi Arabia last week to continue talks on a potential mega-deal that could include a peace agreement between the kingdom and Israel, two sources with direct knowledge of the issue told Axios."

Good post.

[Jockey]

Fox News hadn't reported that official response yet but have had a lot of Republican congress members on in the meantime

Are they proposing cutting all aid to Israel?

[4everwarriors]

Fluffy BM, the Buffoon's original response included the call for Israel to show "restraint" in its response. That has now been deleted.
As for being a "partisan hack," that term applies to nearly every poster on Scoop, aina?

Here's what is being reported,
Shamefully, the Biden administration's first instinct in responding to this unfolding atrocity was to call for Israeli restraint, as innocent Israelis were being kidnapped, murdered, and paraded through the streets. It was a statement so disastrously wrongheaded that the office that issued it was forced to delete it.

[Uncle Rico]

Maybe you shouldn't just watch Fox News. Just a thought.

I've been watching Fox, CNN and the BBC report on this

[Uncle Rico]

Are they proposing cutting all aid to Israel?

No, they need the campaign donations.

Lots of blame on Iran and rightfully so.  Not mad at Iran for supporting Russia, though. 

[4everwarriors]

Enes Kanter Freedom's response,

I've been closely monitoring what's going on in the Middle East," Kanter Freedom said. "I've come across numerous messages, and I believe that it's very important to address the situation in Israel with clarity. What is happening there is undeniably barbaric, acts of terrorism that cannot be softened with 'buts' or additional justifications. 
"The loss of innocent lives can never be justified by any means. It's crucial to emphasize that these events have nothing to do with Islam. In fact, Islam teaches that taking the life of one innocent person is equal to killing entire humanity. We have to condemn these actions and stand in solidarity with the innocent people in Israel. Many of my Palestinian friends are not supporting Hamas, each act of Hamas terrorism; taking away hopes for peace in the region."