Az. water conservation

[rocket surgeon]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2023/06/13/arizona-water-future-brighter-headlines-suggest/70308482007/


  excellent article on how arizona has approached it's water issues over the past decades with smart planning for the future.  i believe many in the media try to use california's problems as a foundation for the whole southwestern region.  that can be proven to be very inaccurate and/or disingenuous.  they have not instituted near the water management programs that arizona has.  for example, they have a very limited water infrastructure in place and send more water back into the pacific ocean than phoenix uses annually.  most of the articles you see are from sources either unfamiliar with arizona water management policies or they have "other" presumed agendas to fulfill. 

some highlights to take note of:

  they rely less on the colorado river than many assumed.  although some areas of the state face scarcities, the metro phoenix region and the state has 5 times more water stored than it uses. 

  they have NEVER mandated restrictions because they haven't needed to

It has stockpiled 13.2 million acre-feet of water in reservoirs and underground, with 7.1 million acre-feet of that total stored in Greater Phoenix.

they give it's residents rebates for installing smart irrigation systems and closely monitor all water use.  for example, if they notice irregular spikes in residential water usage, they are on that immediately

  their water usage is approximately the same today as it was back in the 1950's despite it's population being 7 times larger due to increased efficiency and water management programs in place

is the water shortage issue real?  yes, absolutely.  but this has motivated some areas to become more innovative for the future as we can and should for many of our resources

[jesmu84]

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/in-drought-stricken-arizona-fresh-scrutiny-of-saudi-arabia-owned-farms-water-use

Gross. More Saudi crap.

[lawdog77]

Denying certificates needed to build new homes because of shortage
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/arizona-restricts-phoenix-home-construction-amid-water-shortage-2023-06-02/#:~:text=The%20state's%20recently%20concluded%20analysis,Supply%2C%20which%20enable%20home%20construction.

[The Sultan]

To be fair, those limits are for housing that accesses groundwater directly and not those who are in areas that are supplied via the Colorado and other rivers.

I think the major issue with that article is that it assumes that the amount of water from the Colorado will be constant and sustainable over time. I don't believe it is however.

[lawdog77]

To be fair, those limits are for housing that accesses groundwater directly and not those who are in areas that are supplied via the Colorado and other rivers.

I think the major issue with that article is that it assumes that the amount of water from the Colorado will be constant and sustainable over time. I don't believe it is however.

Well, since the Colorado River has shrunk 20% in the last 20 years, those who don't think Arizona has a major water problem have their head in the sand (pun intended)

[The Sultan]

Well, since the Colorado River has shrunk 20% in the last 20 years, those who don't think Arizona has a major water problem have their head in the sand (pun intended)

That's exactly what I mean. I also am not sure about how much stock I am going to put in an opinion written by someone in the real estate industry.

[dgies9156]

The whole thing is fascinating. I've done a lot of business with financial institutions in the west whose customers worry about water every day. It's just something that, to someone who lived in Chicago, the St. Croix Headwaters of NW Wisconsin, the Cumberland Valley of Tennessee, along the Mississippi River and in Florida has a hard time comprehending. But it clearly is real and problematic.

At some point, there are three issues we as a nation have to resolve:

1) Recycled Water -- We know how to recycle water from a treatment plant. Instead of dumping it into the Pacific Ocean, we pipe it over to a water processing facility and reprocess it for human consumption. That's how we keep people alive on the International Space Station. Orange County, CA is doing that now and has cut use of the Colorado River and other aquifers dramatically. It was an issue we used to speak about in a social psychology class back at MU in the 1970s but with strong engineering and a commitment to conservation, it can be done. Note, to some degree, New Orleans drinks St. Paul's, Chicago's, St. Louis' and Memphis' recycled water.

2) Desalinization -- If we poured half as much research and federal support for desalinization as we do for crazy-ass energy projects (think Solyndra, Obama fans), most folks on the west coast would be drinking desalinized water. There are very significant technical hurdles still to overcome but this is something that could solve an awful lot of problems. It really could!

3) Water as a Resource -- Most of the major cities of the Midwest have more water than they could every use. Why not treat it the way we treat Texas oil, Wyoming coal or ag products from around the country. If all else fails, move it west (with a parallel pipe that makes it all come back). I know there are international treaties, but it seems senseless not to use uit.

[The Sultan]

Regarding #1, a number of places use recycled water for outdoor and industrial watering purposes.  San Antonio uses it to provide water for the Riverwalk.

https://www.npr.org/2011/10/01/140937267/recycled-water-quenches-san-antonios-thirst

Regarding #3, water can't be moved out of the Great Lakes basin per treaty with Canada.  I think this would be way less popular than your other two ideas.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

3) Water as a Resource -- Most of the major cities of the Midwest have more water than they could every use. Why not treat it the way we treat Texas oil, Wyoming coal or ag products from around the country. If all else fails, move it west (with a parallel pipe that makes it all come back). I know there are international treaties, but it seems senseless not to use uit.

I think National Geographic has a recent write-up related to this.  A pipeline was proposed to send water from the Mississippi in Louisiana out west to reduce flooding in Louisiana and help the west with water.   It's mostly been nixed as the main issue is by doing this you create lots of other different problems not to mention the cost would be astronomical.  Other things can be done less costly.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think agriculture needs to be part of the conversation too. There are certain crops that just require too much water to be environmentally responsible at the rate we currently cultivate them. I remember reading that Alfalfa accounts for around 66% of the water use in Utah but is worth less than 1% of the state's GDP. Now there are a ton of benefits to the use of alfalfa, it's a universal feed for livestock, it's great for soil health, and it's many famers' livelihoods...but with the current situation in the southwest I'm not sure it's environmentally responsible to dedicate that much water it. I have no where near the expertise to know if there are alternatives that require less water.

[dgies9156]

I think National Geographic has a recent write-up related to this.  A pipeline was proposed to send water from the Mississippi in Louisiana out west to reduce flooding in Louisiana and help the west with water.   It's mostly been nixed as the main issue is by doing this you create lots of other different problems not to mention the cost would be astronomical.  Other things can be done less costly.   

One of the problems would be building enough pipe to make a difference out west.

Years ago, when Ms. Dgies and I lived in DuPage County, the DuPage County Water Commission built a pipeline from Chicago to DuPage County to bring Lake Michigan water into a part of DuPage County that had been living on well water (aka, most of it!). Even for that, the cost was astronomical. That pipe was built for a county of about 700,000 and it only went about 30 miles. You'd need the Roman aqueducts to pipe water to Phoenix or Los Angeles -- many of them!

Engineering wise, it is possible. Practically, it's tough. And it will take years!

[rocket surgeon]

regarding the colorado river and arizona water-only 36% of Az water comes from colorado river.

i believe what the article is trying to state among many things is that Az has quite effectively benn managing their water quite well compared to say california.  they have had a number of processes in order for years where california has been kicking the can down the road because it isn't an immediate political win.  politicians need "stuff" they can point to here and now.  this has put more pressure on the surrounding states

[Skatastrophy]

About 75% of Arizona's water usage comes from agriculture. 80% of California water usage is on agriculture. Seems like it's time to put a few farmers out of business and get the Southwest back on track.

[Uncle Rico]

About 75% of Arizona's water usage comes from agriculture. 80% of California water usage is on agriculture. Seems like it's time to put a few farmers out of business and get the Southwest back on track.

Arizona has a lot of idiots living there that don't think climate change is real.  Don't move there.  They'll be out of water a LOT faster than they think.  Honestly, I'd sell it to Mexico.  If I need to see a giant hole in the earth, I'll just read scoop

[rocket surgeon]

Arizona has a lot of idiots living there that don't think climate change is real.  Don't move there.  They'll be out of water a LOT faster than they think.  Honestly, I'd sell it to Mexico.  If I need to see a giant hole in the earth, I'll just read scoop

  if you were to come down to Az, now that would be a waste of water. 

   climate changes down there every day, every season.  love the changes in climate down there more than up here.  some days can even be the epicenter of global warming.  as a matter of fact it's been well into the hundreds.  as a matter of fact, it's been so warm, the glaciers have all melted

[Warriors4ever]

Thank goodness for the Great Lakes compact. So many people out there are so condescending about people fleeing Midwest cities, how much better things are than they are here, blah blah blah,  poaching industries and other jobs. They can't have my water too.
So there.

[rocky_warrior]

If only Mr. Parsons had gotten his way, this would already be solved:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Water_and_Power_Alliance

Of course, Canada would have started a war over it, as they didn't really want the US to flood 1/3 of their country...

[The Sultan]

Yeah that's a pretty dumb idea.

[dgies9156]

Thank goodness for the Great Lakes compact. So many people out there are so condescending about people fleeing Midwest cities, how much better things are than they are here, blah blah blah,  poaching industries and other jobs. They can't have my water too.
So there.

Suppose Texas and Louisiana said the same thing about their energy? Or Wyoming?

Or Iowa said the same thing about its grain and pork?

Sounds like a protectionist!

[tower912]

Embridge pipeline will rupture make it a moot point.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If only Mr. Parsons had gotten his way, this would already be solved:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Water_and_Power_Alliance

Of course, Canada would have started a war over it, as they didn't really want the US to flood 1/3 of their country...

Sounds like a Rico suggestion.

[Uncle Rico]

  if you were to come down to Az, now that would be a waste of water. 

   climate changes down there every day, every season.  love the changes in climate down there more than up here.  some days can even be the epicenter of global warming.  as a matter of fact it's been well into the hundreds.  as a matter of fact, it's been so warm, the glaciers have all melted

There isn't a single good reason to visit Arizona

[Skatastrophy]

There isn't a single good reason to visit Arizona

Chino Banditos is worth the trip
https://g.co/kgs/rbe8NH

[tower912]

Outlaw khakis?

[rocket surgeon]

There isn't a single good reason to visit Arizona

  GOLF GOLF & GOLF  there's 3 right there