Saudis and sports

[panda]

Define fairness in the context of sports.

Certain basic parameters laid out from the jump. Men play with men and women play with women.

[real chili 83]

In before the lock

3…2…

[Pakuni]

Certain basic parameters laid out from the jump. Men play with men and women play with women.

Doesn't answer the question. This is how you think you'd achieve fairness. I'm asking how you define fairness.
What makes this "fair?"

[panda]

Doesn't answer the question. This is how you think you'd achieve fairness. I'm asking how you define fairness.
What makes this "fair?"

You really need an explanation why men and women compete in different spheres ?

[Herman Cain]

Do high schools kids actually shower together these days? Doesn't happen at my kids' school. Didn't happen in my high school either.
I don't think any kids should be showering together. If you want to provide showers, build individual stalls and let kids decide if they want to use them or not.
Regardless, what does this have to do with transgender athletes competing within their chosen gender?

Back in the day it was a thing after gym class. That is where the all the Johnson comparisons start.

[mix it up]

The title of this thread is Saudi’s and Sports. I’m sure MU82 was hoping for a different direction than the one it has taken. Transgenders and sports can be another thread.

How do all of you feel about Saudi’s as possible owners, with their crushing of lives, human rights and involvement in terrorist activities? We saw how Sterling, Sarver and Snyder (hmm… all begin with S…Just like Saudi, but I digress) were run off for much lesser but still unacceptable behavior. Isn’t the way the Saudi’s engage in hate and prejudice even worse? I love the game of golf and their involvement will not affect me in the least, however, watching golf on TV just became a much lower priority.

[Pakuni]

You really need an explanation why men and women compete in different spheres ?

I'm just asking a question, panda. You're free to continue avoiding it.

[Pakuni]

Back in the day it was a thing after gym class. That is where the all the Johnson comparisons start.

I'll take your word for it.

[panda]

I'm just asking a question, panda. You're free to continue avoiding it.

i consider someone who needs an explanation why men and women participate in different competitions to be remarkably stupid so Feel free to make your point…

[Pakuni]

i consider someone who needs an explanation why men and women participate in different competitions to be remarkably stupid so Feel free to make your point…

It's OK if you don't want to answer the question. No need to reply further. Enjoy your Sunday.

[Pakuni]

The title of this thread is Saudi’s and Sports. I’m sure MU82 was hoping for a different direction than the one it has taken. Transgenders and sports can be another thread.

How do all of you feel about Saudi’s as possible owners, with their crushing of lives, human rights and involvement in terrorist activities? We saw how Sterling, Sarver and Snyder (hmm… all begin with S…Just like Saudi, but I digress) were run off for much lesser but still unacceptable behavior. Isn’t the way the Saudi’s engage in hate and prejudice even worse? I love the game of golf and their involvement will not affect me in the least, however, watching golf on TV just became a much lower priority.

If a team I support were to be purchased by the Saudis, I would no longer support that team. Not even a difficult decision for me. I don't judge those who feel otherwise.

[21Jumpstreet]

I think the Saudi situation is a difficult one for me. I hesitate to say I’d boycott or disavow anything related to them in sports, my guess is they are involved everywhere with everything in some way. Do we add China? Russia? India? Any European country with a sordid past or present? The USA?

It has been well discussed that the Saudis are merely sportswashing, I get it. I don’t like their treatment of women, I don’t like their involvement in terrorism, I don’t like their control over oil. I bet someone might think, that’s the same things you could say about any powerful country including the USA.

Would I choose to support a Saudi futbol team? No, not explicitly. If the Saudis bought my beloved Sheffield Wednesday, I honestly would probably still support the Owls. If the PIF invests in the Heat, yeah, I’ll probably still go to the Heat games. I’ll still occasionally watch the PGA, although I don’t watch that much now. If the Saudi’s bought a WNBA team, it would raise an eyebrow for me, although I guess I would have to ask is it good or bad for the women. I’d probably ask the women/hear what they had to say about it.

[Jay Bee]

Do high schools kids actually shower together these days? Doesn't happen at my kids' school. Didn't happen in my high school either.

It did, it’s just that you and your chess club buddies didn’t break a sweat and didn’t need to shower after “competition”.

[rocket surgeon]

21jump-you bring up some very interesting points and answer questions in a very non interrogating way and/or aggressive manner.  speaking for myself here, but maybe others as well, it promotes good thought and quite possibly good honest responses as opposed to reactions i appreciate and respect your input.

  just because someone believes differently doesn't make them a " 'phobe"  i have a niece whom we have been going thru the process for a few years now, of should she or shouldn't she go full trans.  my son's wife's sister is now a "brother" and the other sister is a lesbian.  no this isn't a "my best friend is a ______" statement, but i do have a more intimate relationship with the subject than many here would understand   

[Pakuni]

It did, it’s just that you and your chess club buddies didn’t break a sweat and didn’t need to shower after “competition”.

You're bad at this.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

It did, it’s just that you and your chess club buddies didn’t break a sweat and didn’t need to shower after “competition”.

Cmon, beej.  We all know that the mighty pakuni was the captain of his forensics team.  Probably took part in spelling bees too.

[21Jumpstreet]

21jump-you bring up some very interesting points and answer questions in a very non interrogating way and/or aggressive manner.  speaking for myself here, but maybe others as well, it promotes good thought and quite possibly good honest responses as opposed to reactions i appreciate and respect your input.

  just because someone believes differently doesn't make them a " 'phobe"  i have a niece whom we have been going thru the process for a few years now, of should she or shouldn't she go full trans.  my son's wife's sister is now a "brother" and the other sister is a lesbian.  no this isn't a "my best friend is a ______" statement, but i do have a more intimate relationship with the subject than many here would understand   

Appreciate that Rocket, I do try (and fail) to ask reasonable questions and keep my judgment at bay the best I can. I’m an emotional person, so that can be tough, and I do let my arrogance get the better of me.

I agree, different thought does not mean phobe as you put it. For me personally, I don’t understand the at best dismissal and at worst outright hatred for say trans/gay/queer people and lifestyle. I firmly understand the religious piece, that is my dad and his gay sister/my aunt (like you, not trying to pull I have a gay friend move), what I don’t understand is why that is the “right” belief. Why can’t there be multiple beliefs and mutual respect. No, I don’t mean white supremacy or racism, I mean it’s okay for someone to not feel the gay lifestyle is best for them while also fully supporting those who do. There is nothing to be afraid of here.

Anyway, as I’ve gotten older, I really do try to listen to everyone and trust them and believe they are good people first. Then, I try to ask questions, try to find some commonality. For example, the friend I mentioned earlier who would be described as radical right wing homophobe, maybe racist, full Trump supporter is someone I pretty strongly disagree with (to be clear, I strongly disagree with full Biden supporters, really any full politician supporters) and even let myself get frustrated with. But, we have kids who were on the same robotics team together, who just finished their freshmen years at college, we both would do anything for our kids and each other’s kids.

I’ve learned my world is pretty small, my knowledge is pretty limited, my opinion is just that and we all have and should be respected for having one first. We don’t have to agree on a specific issue, but I am pretty sure we would all agree we want as many people to have as many opportunities to live the best, safest possible lives they can. I think it really comes down to how someone views humanity. I believe strongly that people are good at their cores, and fears, circumstances, and choices might change that on the surface.

[Lennys Tap]

If a team I support were to be purchased by the Saudis, I would no longer support that team. Not even a difficult decision for me. I don't judge those who feel otherwise.

How about one purchased by a Catholic?

[Pakuni]

Cmon, beej.  We all know that the mighty pakuni was the captain of his forensics team.  Probably took part in spelling bees too.

Weird way of saying "Pakuni is smarter than we are"... but you're not wrong about that.

[Pakuni]

How about one purchased by a Catholic?

As long as it's not one of the rape-y ones.

[rocket surgeon]

Appreciate that Rocket, I do try (and fail) to ask reasonable questions and keep my judgment at bay the best I can. I’m an emotional person, so that can be tough, and I do let my arrogance get the better of me.

I agree, different thought does not mean phobe as you put it. For me personally, I don’t understand the at best dismissal and at worst outright hatred for say trans/gay/queer people and lifestyle. I firmly understand the religious piece, that is my dad and his gay sister/my aunt (like you, not trying to pull I have a gay friend move), what I don’t understand is why that is the “right” belief. Why can’t there be multiple beliefs and mutual respect. No, I don’t mean white supremacy or racism, I mean it’s okay for someone to not feel the gay lifestyle is best for them while also fully supporting those who do. There is nothing to be afraid of here.

Anyway, as I’ve gotten older, I really do try to listen to everyone and trust them and believe they are good people first. Then, I try to ask questions, try to find some commonality. For example, the friend I mentioned earlier who would be described as radical right wing homophobe, maybe racist, full Trump supporter is someone I pretty strongly disagree with (to be clear, I strongly disagree with full Biden supporters, really any full politician supporters) and even let myself get frustrated with. But, we have kids who were on the same robotics team together, who just finished their freshmen years at college, we both would do anything for our kids and each other’s kids.

I’ve learned my world is pretty small, my knowledge is pretty limited, my opinion is just that and we all have and should be respected for having one first. We don’t have to agree on a specific issue, but I am pretty sure we would all agree we want as many people to have as many opportunities to live the best, safest possible lives they can. I think it really comes down to how someone views humanity. I believe strongly that people are good at their cores, and fears, circumstances, and choices might change that on the surface.

  this post should be in the top 5 of the scoop-dom archives!

  love your balanced thought process 21jump

i know there are many here on this board who may disagree on "stuff" and thru the anonymity of the internet, speak differently toward each other; as opposed to how they would if they were to meet in person.  after i've met a few here on the board either personally or via pm, my opinions changed, mostly toward respect.  some have become great friends.  provocative people invite either animosity or debate.  i am guilty of falling for the provocateurs, but your posts bring me back to the side of healthy conversation

ok, back to the saudi's- what would Jesus do? 

[tower912]

Love your neighbor as yourself.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
The beatitudes.
Cast the money changers out of the temple.
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.   Render unto the Lord what is the Lord's.
There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for his friends.

[Herman Cain]

Love your neighbor as yourself.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
The beatitudes.
Cast the money changers out of the temple.
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.   Render unto the Lord what is the Lord's.
There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for his friends.

Proverbs 26:11

[tower912]

Old testament.  The specific question was what Jesus would do.

[4everwarriors]

Its only fair to ax, WWMD (what would Moses do), aina?