Saudis and sports

[panda]

Shocking that this is where you fall on this issue.

Kudos to pretending to care about women's rights though.

A man competing in women's sports isn't fair. Not sure what's controversial about it.

[The Sultan]

A man competing in women's sports isn't fair. Not sure what's controversial about it.

Men transitioning to women for sports glory is an incredibly minor issue.  And it's one mainly used as reason to justify the current bullying of trans-people by certain segments of our society.

[panda]

Men transitioning to women for sports glory is an incredibly minor issue.  And it's one mainly used as reason to justify the current bullying of trans-people by certain segments of our society.

The issue is that it's not fair.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The issue is that it's not fair.

c'est la vie

[Lennys Tap]

Men transitioning to women for sports glory is an incredibly minor issue.  And it's one mainly used as reason to justify the current bullying of trans-people by certain segments of our society.

The entire trans issue (statistically speaking) is a minor issue. I doubt men transition to women for sports glory anyway - it's a byproduct of the laws of nature. The issue may be incredibly minor to you but it isn't to the "born female" athletes it affects. Anyone who supports women's sports or even just fairness in general should acknowledge that - while also condemning those who use the issue as an excuse for bullying.

[The Sultan]

The entire trans issue (statistically speaking) is a minor issue. I doubt men transition to women for sports glory anyway - it's a byproduct of the laws of nature. The issue may be incredibly minor to you but it isn't to the "born female" athletes it affects. Anyone who supports women's sports or even just fairness in general should acknowledge that - while also condemning those who use the issue as an excuse for bullying.

I am all for setting standards of various sorts to keep things "fair" for female athletes. I don't know enough to know what those standards should be. Honestly it just isn't all that important to me compared to the overall bullying of trans people.

[panda]

I am all for setting standards of various sorts to keep things "fair" for female athletes. I don't know enough to know what those standards should be. Honestly it just isn't all that important to me compared to the overall bullying of trans people.

I have no issue with trans people and I completely agree the athletics issue turned into a cable news flashpoint which unfairly targeted trans people en masse.

But if we're talking purely about trans people competing in athletics, it isn't right to allow a biological man compete in women's sports. Danny almonte identified as a 12 year old but he was really 15 in the LLWS. It's the same thing.

[The Sultan]

As I said, I am all for setting appropriate standards. I have no idea what those should be.

[MuggsyB]

As I said, I am all for setting appropriate standards. I have no idea what those should be.

Appropriate standards for what?  Do you believe biological males should be allowed to complete in women's sports?  Yes or No.

[Lennys Tap]

As I said, I am all for setting appropriate standards. I have no idea what those should be.

So you want fair play but you have no idea what fair play looks like? IOW, you see no solution possible or are OK with whatever.

[The Sultan]

Appropriate standards for what?  Do you believe biological males should be allowed to complete in women's sports?  Yes or No.

After undergoing transitioning, I would say "yes" under appropriate standards. Again, I have no idea what those would be. But I wouldn't give an absolute "no" because life in general isn't so black and white.

[MuggsyB]

After undergoing transitioning, I would say "yes" under appropriate standards. Again, I have no idea what those would be. But I wouldn't give an absolute "no" because life in general isn't so black and white.

WTH is appropriate standards?  What age for starters?  If Carlos Alcaraz identified himself as a female tomorrow would you allow him to hit the WTA circuit after a year?

[The Sultan]

WTH is appropriate standards?  What age for starters?  If Carlos Alcaraz identified himself as a female tomorrow would you allow him to hit the WTA circuit after a year?

JFC, do you ever f*cking read?  I have literally said that I have no idea what those standards should be THREE TIMES in the last hour.

I am all for setting standards of various sorts to keep things "fair" for female athletes. I don't know enough to know what those standards should be. Honestly it just isn't all that important to me compared to the overall bullying of trans people.

As I said, I am all for setting appropriate standards. I have no idea what those should be.

After undergoing transitioning, I would say "yes" under appropriate standards. Again, I have no idea what those would be. But I wouldn't give an absolute "no" because life in general isn't so black and white.

[MuggsyB]

JFC, do you ever f*cking read?  I have literally said that I have no idea what those standards should be THREE TIMES in the last hour.

I know that whatever you're trying to communicate is ridiculous.  Either you believe they should be allowed to compete as biological males in women's sports or you don't. 

[The Sultan]

I know that whatever you're trying to communicate is ridiculous.  Either you believe they should be allowed to compete as biological males in women's sports or you don't. 

LOL really?

After transitioning, I am fine with people who were male at birth to participate in women's sports under certain standards. However I have no idea what those standards should be.

Is that really that hard to understand?

[MuggsyB]

LOL really?

After transitioning, I am fine with people who were male at birth to participate in women's sports under certain standards. However I have no idea what those standards should be.

Okay you're cool if they transition.  So if someone comes along in the WNBA or WTA that are biological males, transition, and have games comparable to Jamal Murray and Carlos Alcaraz that's perfectly fine and won't bother you at all? 

[The Sultan]

Mugs your reading comprehension really sucks. Go back and read what I've written and re-enter the conversation when you understand my point. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.

[Pakuni]

WTH is appropriate standards?  What age for starters?  If Carlos Alcaraz identified himself as a female tomorrow would you allow him to hit the WTA circuit after a year?

This isn't what I was expecting when I clicked on a thread entitled"Saudis and sports."

Anyhow, Mugs, you may be surprised to learn that most sports associations, including the WTA, have standards. I've linked the WTA's for you below, as I'm sure you're very interested in that information.

Your Carlos Alcaraz scenario is, of course, ridiculous on its face and is the kind of fearmongering we see all too often. It calls into question whether you're trying to have an actual discussion here or just "own the libs."

https://wta-prod-photo-files.s3.amazonaws.com/wta/document/2019/09/16/9f44ee14-af76-4d45-b6b7-6ecb27339a35/WTA-Gender-Participation-Policy.pdf

[Pakuni]

Uncle Rico wanking to deez dudes is expected

Every accusation is a confession.

[rocket surgeon]

Men transitioning to women for sports glory is an incredibly minor issue.  And it's one mainly used as reason to justify the current bullying of trans-people by certain segments of our society.

  maybe how you think, but you're conflating 2 issues-men in women sports and bullying

i am addressing men in women sports-period

sorry to deflate your ego, but i do respect women competing with women just as i respect men vs men

[Pakuni]

So you want fair play but you have no idea what fair play looks like? IOW, you see no solution possible or are OK with whatever.

Why do you keep pretending that there are no standards?

[rocket surgeon]

As I said, I am all for setting appropriate standards. I have no idea what those should be.

  what the hell is this supposed to mean??  that's gotta hurt sitting on that fence all day or until someone comes up with something you may be able to agree with

until then, you ain't doing anyone any favors

oh and i amm with everyone's opinions on this board too...whatever those may be

[rocket surgeon]

why do you think there are weight classes in wrestling, boxing, etc?

pee wee football-they don't let anyone over a certain weight, carry the ball for fear of injury

we can go on and on

[The Sultan]

  what the hell is this supposed to mean??  that's gotta hurt sitting on that fence all day or until someone comes up with something you may be able to agree with

until then, you ain't doing anyone any favors

oh and i amm with everyone's opinions on this board too...whatever those may be

Lol. Yeah. I should shoot my mouth off about topics where I lack an understanding.

Or maybe I should just watch Newsmax to tell me what to think...you know...the "rocket way."  That would be better.

Anyway, the WTA standards that Pakuni posted up above seem to make sense to me. That's what I am talking about.

[21Jumpstreet]

Trans athletes have been competing forever with no issues, and many organizations have allowed/regulated/whatever you want to call it for years. This is purely political, in my opinion. It certainly isn't black and white, and I think it would help to discuss the topic with agreed upon terminology. This is a cloudy topic because of the many misunderstandings of terms.

Additionally, we like to assume athletic motivations of trans athletes, we like to assume sexual motivations of trans people. I also sometimes feel like we continue to degrade women and act condescendingly when we say trans women are unfairly advantaged. Just like we can come up with what ifs of a trans woman (who is a woman, I am merely qualifying as such to remain relatively clear in what I'm saying) beating cis women, I have no doubt Simone Biles will beat anyone, for example. Elite athleticism and mentality aren't determined by birth sex. It has been argued that some genetic qualities might prove to be an advantage (see Michael Phelps), but what if he never swam and was a pianist. His long fingers would be perfect.

I read recently about having a trans group when competing, or maybe having an overall male, female, and trans. I'm not sure how I feel about this yet, but people are trying to create inclusive solutions. I think we have to be mindful of how we discuss the discrimination of trans athletes as to me it is reminiscent of how we treated Black athletes in baseball, gay soldiers, women voters, and on and on. There is scientifically more than two sexes, from the beginning of time there have been multiple genders. This shouldn't be scary, infuriating, or weaponized, it should be enlightening, evolving, and lead to more compassion not more discrimination.