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Lighthouse 84

Quote from: JWags85 on May 24, 2023, 02:29:03 PM
Drag queens that wear huge wigs and makeup and sing Tina Turner (RIP) covers or showtunes?  I agree.  Totally harmless.  Ive been to drag brunches with kids and its NBD and actually kind of wholesome. Drag queens in hot pants twerking and doing burlesque style routines, that I can see an issue with.  And Ive seen video of kids at both and think kids at the latter is inappropriate and frankly kind of creepy.   Nuance is important, though I'd imagine many of those bothered by drag queens would be bothered if they were saving children from a burning building.

I'll admit, while it doesn't offend or bother me, I'm not sure why drag queen storytime at a school or library is really necessary.  I'd say the same if it was LARP storytime or Civil War Reenactment storytime.
Yep. Burlesque style drag shows for adults?  Go ahead.  For kids?  Nope.  And if you think otherwise, are you ok with the same show for kids, but with actual women doing the dancing/twerking, etc., instead of drag queens doing it?
HILLTOP SENIOR SURVEY from 1984 Yearbook: 
Favorite Drinking Establishment:

1. The Avalanche.              7. Major Goolsby's.
2. The Gym.                      8. Park Avenue.
3. The Ardmore.                 9. Mugrack.
4. O'Donohues.                 10. Lighthouse.
5. O'Pagets.
6. Hagerty's.

Hards Alumni

Quote from: JWags85 on May 24, 2023, 02:29:03 PM
Drag queens that wear huge wigs and makeup and sing Tina Turner (RIP) covers or showtunes?  I agree.  Totally harmless.  Ive been to drag brunches with kids and its NBD and actually kind of wholesome. Drag queens in hot pants twerking and doing burlesque style routines, that I can see an issue with.  And Ive seen video of kids at both and think kids at the latter is inappropriate and frankly kind of creepy.   Nuance is important, though I'd imagine many of those bothered by drag queens would be bothered if they were saving children from a burning building.

I'll admit, while it doesn't offend or bother me, I'm not sure why drag queen storytime at a school or library is really necessary.  I'd say the same if it was LARP storytime or Civil War Reenactment storytime.

Normalizes instead of otherizes.  Reading to kids is always great, and if they learn to be accepting of everyone in the meantime, why not?

Pakuni

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on May 24, 2023, 03:43:46 PM
Yep. Burlesque style drag shows for adults?  Go ahead.  For kids?  Nope.  And if you think otherwise, are you ok with the same show for kids, but with actual women doing the dancing/twerking, etc., instead of drag queens doing it?

So, I wouldn't take my kids to a burlesque-style drag event. Or non-drag burlesque-style event. But, that said:

1. Burlesque and twerking is not what is occurring at the drag storytimes and brunches that has the right up in arms.* That's just a red herring used to stoke fears about drag in general and, more accurately, create an "other" for people to hate so they can be distracted from those elements of society who really are harming them and their children.

2. Any parent who supplies their kid with access to the internet has to know they're almost assuredly seeing far more concerning content than a guy in drag shaking his ass, right?

* And yes, I'm sure you can find an outlier. The exception doesn't prove the rule.

Jay Bee

Why is it always men dressed as women reading to kids... but not women dressed as men doing so?
REJOICE! Eric Dixon has been suspended!!

tower912

#29
I fear gun idolatry and Christian nationalistic fascism.    I do not fear books, ideas, or drag queens.

I believe in the great commandment and the beatitudes.    Neither come with exemptions or provisos.

I agree with Bonhoeffer.   We have more to fear from stupidity than evil.

If die today, my soul is at peace.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Lighthouse 84

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2023, 03:57:53 PM
So, I wouldn't take my kids to a burlesque-style drag event. Or non-drag burlesque-style event. But, that said:

1. Burlesque and twerking is not what is occurring at the drag storytimes and brunches that has the right up in arms.* That's just a red herring used to stoke fears about drag in general and, more accurately, create an "other" for people to hate so they can be distracted from those elements of society who really are harming them and their children.

2. Any parent who supplies their kid with access to the internet has to know they're almost assuredly seeing far more concerning content than a guy in drag shaking his ass, right?

* And yes, I'm sure you can find an outlier. The exception doesn't prove the rule.
You may be right that the twerking drag shows are the exception.  And I wouldn't disagree that kids with access to the internet are seeing a lot of concerning content.  But I just don't get the obsession with sexualizing kids.  Period.  Because they can see it on their own by surfing the interweb, sexual content (including burlesque drag shows) should then be mainstreamed and normalized for kids by adults?  Nope.  That's more than creepy.
HILLTOP SENIOR SURVEY from 1984 Yearbook: 
Favorite Drinking Establishment:

1. The Avalanche.              7. Major Goolsby's.
2. The Gym.                      8. Park Avenue.
3. The Ardmore.                 9. Mugrack.
4. O'Donohues.                 10. Lighthouse.
5. O'Pagets.
6. Hagerty's.

tower912

It has always been creepy to sexualize children.   Brooke Shields, anyone?  Lolita?

Like so many things in the internet era, something that was an outlier has been made a meme.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Babybluejeans

Quote from: muwarrior69 on May 24, 2023, 08:54:06 AM
Did not want to highjack the MLB thread. As a Catholic I find this quite disturbing.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/254397/la-archdiocese-dodgers-decision-to-honor-drag-queen-nuns-demeans-religious-sisters

As a Catholic, I agree how disturbing it is that the church has gone so wayward in its priorities. Rather than focusing on what matters, they're engaging in culture war BS. Let's see a return to teaching how to be a good, compassionate person to all, in the same way as J man.

Hards Alumni

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on May 24, 2023, 04:13:17 PM
You may be right that the twerking drag shows are the exception.  And I wouldn't disagree that kids with access to the internet are seeing a lot of concerning content.  But I just don't get the obsession with sexualizing kids.  Period.  Because they can see it on their own by surfing the interweb, sexual content (including burlesque drag shows) should then be mainstreamed and normalized for kids by adults?  Nope.  That's more than creepy.

Where is the thread regarding child beauty pageants?  Toddlers and tiaras was a TV show for years, and yet, not a peep around these parts.

Sorry, I didn't mean this to be a personal thing, but more of an overarching comment about why one is accepted and normalized (child beauty pageants) while the other (reading while playing dress up) is frowned upon.

Hards Alumni

Quote from: Babybluejeans on May 24, 2023, 04:25:49 PM
As a Catholic, I agree how disturbing it is that the church has gone so wayward in its priorities. Rather than focusing on what matters, they're engaging in culture war BS. Let's see a return to teaching how to be a good, compassionate person to all, in the same way as J man.

The church has always played politics.

Uncle Rico

Quote from: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2023, 04:27:43 PM
Where is the thread regarding child beauty pageants?  Toddlers and tiaras was a TV show for years, and yet, not a peep around these parts.

Sorry, I didn't mean this to be a personal thing, but more of an overarching comment about why one is accepted and normalized (child beauty pageants) while the other (reading while playing dress up) is frowned upon.

It's ok to sexualize girls early to get them ready for adulthood.  That way, it's far less creepy to post about them as sexual objects on college basketball message boards
Gard just gets it done

tower912

Ziggy Stardust era Bowie.
Freddie Mercury
The Village People.   Seriously?  Macho Man?  YMCA?  In the Navy?   Yeah. They were looking for something long and hard and full of seamen.

Did you really want to hurt Boy George?
Did you find a brand new lover because of Dead or Alive?
Was George Michael your father figure?


This isn't new. 
  Hell, we have a prolific poster well into his 60's who still comments on teenage cheerleaders.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

ZiggysFryBoy

Quote from: Uncle Rico on May 24, 2023, 04:39:24 PM
It's ok to sexualize girls early to get them ready for adulthood.  That way, it's far less creepy to post about them as sexual objects on college basketball message boards

Sex pots.

Uncle Rico

Gard just gets it done

tower912

Did you sing along with L-O-L-A Lola?
How about when.... they shaved their legs and he was a she?

How about when Van Morrison sang about teenagers having  sex?
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

#UnleashSean

Why is this bigger news then the systemic rape of boys in the catholic church?

Uncle Rico

Quote from: tower912 on May 24, 2023, 05:19:53 PM
Did you sing along with L-O-L-A Lola?
How about when.... they shaved their legs and he was a she?

How about when Van Morrison sang about teenagers having  sex?

If the internet and cable tv had been around back then, that would have been the boogeyman of choice. 

I mean, it was.  Culture wars never end.  #LastDays sell and always will
Gard just gets it done

JWags85

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2023, 03:57:53 PM
2. Any parent who supplies their kid with access to the internet has to know they're almost assuredly seeing far more concerning content than a guy in drag shaking his ass, right?

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on May 24, 2023, 04:13:17 PM
You may be right that the twerking drag shows are the exception.  And I wouldn't disagree that kids with access to the internet are seeing a lot of concerning content.  But I just don't get the obsession with sexualizing kids.  Period.  Because they can see it on their own by surfing the interweb, sexual content (including burlesque drag shows) should then be mainstreamed and normalized for kids by adults?  Nope.  That's more than creepy.

Yea, the "kids can find it or see much worse if they have the internet" argument for this kind of stuff seems like a lazy deflection.  I don't want to take kids to a strip club but they can find stripper videos easily with the internet.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2023, 03:45:15 PM
Normalizes instead of otherizes.  Reading to kids is always great, and if they learn to be accepting of everyone in the meantime, why not?

But again, I'm not sure how that angle really plays.  To me and for my young son, seeing my friend Jason and his husband Colin from college as just normal, everyday people or parents like a heterosexual is far more normalizing than Coco Thundertits or SlayQueen Sandy at the library reading a book.  Again, I don't think drag queens are inherently problematic or scary, but I'm not sure how an outlandish caricature would make kids more accepting of gay people more than a man dressed as a Zulu Warrior would make kids normalizing and accepting of everyday African Americans in their community.

Quote from: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2023, 04:27:43 PM
Where is the thread regarding child beauty pageants?  Toddlers and tiaras was a TV show for years, and yet, not a peep around these parts.

Sorry, I didn't mean this to be a personal thing, but more of an overarching comment about why one is accepted and normalized (child beauty pageants) while the other (reading while playing dress up) is frowned upon.

Seems an awful lot like whataboutism my friend  8-)  But to the point, Toddlers and Tiaras is weird as hell.  But child beauty pageants aren't really a common topic these days.  I wasn't old enough at the time, but I'm pretty sure circa JonBenet, there was plenty of "this is kind of weird" in regards to all the pictures of her that came out.

If people are putting their kids in beauty pageants and crying foul about drag storytime.  Than they are absolutely loser hypocrites.  But its ok to think both are a bit odd.

tower912

And another generation becomes their parents.  Shaking their fists at the clouds  and complaining about the younger folk.

....when I was that age, I never....

Liar.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Pakuni

Quote from: JWags85 on May 24, 2023, 05:29:23 PM
Yea, the "kids can find it or see much worse if they have the internet" argument for this kind of stuff seems like a lazy deflection.  I don't want to take kids to a strip club but they can find stripper videos easily with the internet.

You miss the point.
The point is the same people who screech about drag brunch may think nothing about handing a 12-year-old an iPhone.

Pakuni

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on May 24, 2023, 04:13:17 PM
You may be right that the twerking drag shows are the exception.  And I wouldn't disagree that kids with access to the internet are seeing a lot of concerning content.  But I just don't get the obsession with sexualizing kids. 


Is there really an "obsession" with sexualizing kids?
From who? How? Where?
I mean, sure, maybe the politicians who defend child marriage are sexualizing kids. Or the podcasters who say talk about 16 being prime babymaking age.
But what are some other blatant examples?


Jockey

Quote from: tower912 on May 24, 2023, 04:05:04 PM
I fear gun idolatry and Christian nationalistic fascism.    I do not fear books, ideas, or drag queens.

I believe in the great commandment and the beatitudes.    Neither come with exemptions or provisos.

I agree with Bonhoeffer.   We have more to fear from stupidity than evil.

If die today, my soul is at peace.

You're a good man, Tower. Love and acceptance are always better than fear and demonization.

rocket surgeon

Quote from: Pakuni on May 24, 2023, 06:36:05 PM
Is there really an "obsession" with sexualizing kids?
From who? How? Where?
I mean, sure, maybe the politicians who defend child marriage are sexualizing kids. Or the podcasters who say talk about 16 being prime babymaking age.
But what are some other blatant examples?

  you can block certain content

you don't know where the sexualization of kids is coming from?  i hope to God you don't have young children/grandchildren.  can't we allow kids to be kids...at least thru 6th grade? 
felz Houston ate uncle boozie's hands

tower912

#48
Quote from: Jay Bee on May 24, 2023, 04:01:55 PM
Why is it always men dressed as women reading to kids... but not women dressed as men doing so?
If you want women dressed as men... go back to Shakespeare.

Early Eurythmics Annie Lenox.
A couple of cheesy 80's teen flix.

And, let's be honest.  Men's clothing is pretty boring.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

ZiggysFryBoy

Quote from: tower912 on May 24, 2023, 07:25:05 PM
If you want women dressed as men... go back to Shakespeare.

Early Eurythmics Annie Lenox.
A couple of cheesy 80's teen flix.

Wrong.  Men were the only actors in Shakespeare's time. 

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