collapse

* Stud of Xavier Game

Kam Jones

34 points, 2 rebounds,
1 assist, 2 steals,
28 minutes

2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek9
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.4
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

Big East 23-24 Results by PGsHeroes32
[Today at 11:15:40 AM]


2024 NCAA Tournament Bracketology by MU82
[Today at 11:05:14 AM]


How important is the 2nd weekend to you? by MU82
[Today at 10:56:54 AM]


2024 Coaching Carousel by WhiteTrash
[Today at 10:41:03 AM]


Chase in a Boot by Scoop Snoop
[Today at 10:36:52 AM]


So....What are we ranked on Monday - 3/4/2024? by Its DJOver
[Today at 10:35:27 AM]


2023-2024 College Basketball Thread by lawdog77
[Today at 10:13:36 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: Providence

Marquette
88
Marquette vs

Providence

Date/Time: Feb 28, 2024, 6:00 pm
TV: FS1
Schedule for 2023-24
Xavier
64

Author Topic: 2010s and On CBB Bracket  (Read 3739 times)

GoldenEagles03

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3453
2010s and On CBB Bracket
« on: April 27, 2023, 11:29:25 AM »
NCAA Buzzer Beaters put together a 68 team field of Colleges best lineups from 2010 to now.

Marquette is an 8 seed matched up with 9 seed Florida State in Round 1!  Go vote!

Tyler Kolek
Markus Howard
Jimmy Butler
Jae Crowder
Henry Ellenson

is Marquette's team.

Voting:
https://twitter.com/NCAABuzzerBters/status/1651622410033176577?t=ent-rWq6Nk4WjFA-BjB3hA&s=19

Bracket:
https://twitter.com/NCAABuzzerBters/status/1650869775126663174?t=0Ve47hNlxtBy926_WOrQgw&s=19
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 11:45:16 AM by GoldenEagles03 »
VIOLENCE!

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10983
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2023, 11:31:24 AM »
Henry Ellenson???
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

GoldenEagles03

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3453
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2023, 11:33:07 AM »
Henry Ellenson???

I mean he was a 1st Round pick. I can see why they chose him.  Oso would be the only other choice IMO.
VIOLENCE!

The Sultan of Semantics

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10983
  • "Private message me coward" - panda
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2023, 11:37:04 AM »
If they are going for an actual post player, Davante Gardner was well better than Henry.  If they don't care about position, DJO, Vander, Oso, OMax, and even Justin Lewis were better.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26283
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2023, 11:41:15 AM »
In terms of career, you could even argue Luke Fischer if you wanted a center.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12810
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2023, 11:44:28 AM »
I mean he was a 1st Round pick. I can see why they chose him.  Oso would be the only other choice IMO.

And All Big East

GoldenEagles03

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3453
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2023, 11:46:38 AM »
A tournament of 68 Schools' All-Star lineup of players since 2010. A collection of each school's dream starting 5 of players from the last 14 seasons.

To determine who's had the best collection of players in recent CBB history.


I think it is just looking for a team who would win a game. Not specifically accolade related, though that doesn't hurt. Henry at 6'11" was a weapon and would've been even moreso with players like this on his team.
VIOLENCE!

PBRme

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 528
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2023, 11:53:54 AM »
A tournament of 68 Schools' All-Star lineup of players since 2010. A collection of each school's dream starting 5 of players from the last 14 seasons.

To determine who's had the best collection of players in recent CBB history.


I think it is just looking for a team who would win a game. Not specifically accolade related, though that doesn't hurt. Henry at 6'11" was a weapon and would've been even moreso with players like this on his team.

Wouldn't they have to put Wally on the team if they pick Henry
Peace, Love, and Rye Whiskey...May your life and your glass always be full

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 21871
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2023, 11:55:33 AM »
I'd think the contenders for the center position would be Ellenson, Fischer, Gardner, and Oso. They are each very different and I don't know if there is a clear winner among them.

Ellenson is by far the best rebounder and the only one with an outside shot.

Fischer is the best rim protector and second best rebounder but is the most limited offensively.

Davante is the worst defender by far but the best scorer

Oso is the worst rebounder but the most versatile offensively and probably the best overall defensively.


If Jae is the PF, I'd probably go with Oso because Jae can suck up all the rebounds, limiting Oso's biggest weakness.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 8768
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2023, 12:08:42 PM »
This team would be unstoppable with John Dawson
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

GoldenEagles03

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3453
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2023, 12:11:35 PM »
Kolek and Jimmy running the show with Markus running off screens and Jae and Henry popping for 3s would be unstoppable.

Jimmy and Jae would have a lot of defense to make up for.
VIOLENCE!

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17199
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2023, 12:15:20 PM »
It doesn't seem like they're putting out the best lineups.  I mean, look at the FSU group they have matched up against MU.  Vassell, Beasley, Barnes, Isaac, Kabengele.  None of these guys are lead guards.  "The best collection of players" is what they say.  So pretty much just pick the top 5 players.

Lazar played in 2010, and also played center for MU anyway.  DJO is clearly a better player than Hank (although not a 5).  Heck, DJO was better at MU than Jimmy was.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

PointWarrior

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1743
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2023, 12:29:08 PM »
In terms of career, you could even argue Luke Fischer if you wanted a center.

not sure anyone could argue Luke Fischer....

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22744
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2023, 12:32:17 PM »
I would take Henry over Gardner.
I would take Oso over Gardner.
I would take Theo over Gardner.
Keeyan would be a coin flip.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26283
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2023, 03:06:15 PM »
not sure anyone could argue Luke Fischer....

Since 2010, the candidates would basically be Chris Otule, Davante Gardner, Luke Fischer, Matt Heldt, Theo John, Kur Kuath, and Oso Ighodaro.

In terms of offense, Fischer was clearly better than Otule, Heldt, John, and Kuath.

In terms of defense, Fischer was clearly better than Gardner and probably Oso.

He was the best two-way center we've had in the past 15 years. On offense, he was highly efficient and assertive enough to keep defenses honest. On defense, he was a competent rim protector and held his own against big bodies (despite not the best foot speed). He was an adequate rebounder. We haven't exactly had stars at the center position. Oso is probably the most star-like, and his 2023 season was great as a modern big man, but I don't think he's caught Fischer in terms of career.

Like Fischer throughout his career, he's a perfectly fine option if you surround him with other great player, but isn't the guy you want to be your star.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22744
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2023, 03:12:05 PM »
Luke's defensive issues were lateral quickness and scheme.   Switching when you have tiny guards and bigs who cannot defend in space doesn't work.  Luke was fine defending the post and the rim.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2023, 03:17:33 PM »
Since 2010, the candidates would basically be Chris Otule, Davante Gardner, Luke Fischer, Matt Heldt, Theo John, Kur Kuath, and Oso Ighodaro.

In terms of offense, Fischer was clearly better than Otule, Heldt, John, and Kuath.

In terms of defense, Fischer was clearly better than Gardner and probably Oso.

He was the best two-way center we've had in the past 15 years. On offense, he was highly efficient and assertive enough to keep defenses honest. On defense, he was a competent rim protector and held his own against big bodies (despite not the best foot speed). He was an adequate rebounder. We haven't exactly had stars at the center position. Oso is probably the most star-like, and his 2023 season was great as a modern big man, but I don't think he's caught Fischer in terms of career.

Like Fischer throughout his career, he's a perfectly fine option if you surround him with other great player, but isn't the guy you want to be your star.

Affirmatively no. Not even close. No shot. Never. Not in 1 million years.

Last year, Marquette's adjusted team defensive efficiency with Oso on the court was 88.7. That was the best on the team.
In 2021-2022 Oso's was 90.3 the second best on the team behind stevie.

In 2014-2015 Fischer's was 93.8, playing against other teams second units.
In 2015-2016 Fischer's was 98.4.
In 2016-2017 Fischer's was 106.9 (the worst on the team).

This is just wrong.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2023, 03:24:02 PM by jfp61 »

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26283
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2023, 03:25:00 PM »
Affirmatively no. Not even close. No shot. Never. Not in 1 million years.

Oso was better at quick man-to-man defense, Fischer was a better in terms of shot-blocking help defense and holding his own against big, physical 5s. Oso struggled with guys like Nunge, Sanogo, and Croswell when it came to sheer physicality. I love Oso and think once his career is done I'd have him ahead of Fischer, but there were things Luke's size and strength allowed him to do that Oso cannot.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2023, 03:30:42 PM »
Oso was better at quick man-to-man defense, Fischer was a better in terms of shot-blocking help defense and holding his own against big, physical 5s. Oso struggled with guys like Nunge, Sanogo, and Croswell when it came to sheer physicality. I love Oso and think once his career is done I'd have him ahead of Fischer, but there were things Luke's size and strength allowed him to do that Oso cannot.

Oso was a better defender on the most important defensive attribute in the game of basketball. But Luke Fischer was okay at defending something that is hardly a part of the game anymore.

That's what i just read. Also, I am not even entirely sure that is completely truthful. Luke got eaten alive by many bigs.

Objectivly, Oso has been a top two-three defensive player on Marquette teams better defensively than Luke Fischer ever played on.

I actually can't believe i read that.

THRILLHO

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
    • twitter feed
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2023, 03:38:24 PM »
Oso was a better defender on the most important defensive attribute in the game of basketball. But Luke Fischer was okay at defending something that is hardly a part of the game anymore.


Shot blocking help defense is hardly a part of the game anymore?

jfp61

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1389
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2023, 03:54:09 PM »
Shot blocking help defense is hardly a part of the game anymore?

Yea man of course, ignore the one thing i was clearly referring to  nd choose the other two aspects of the game he referenced.

Here are some baseline unquestionable facts.

Oso was a solid bench defender in his first year, and then was the anchor of a defense his second year. His team defenses finished 55th his first year and 43rd his second year. And Marquette's team defense was significantly worse when Oso was off the court each year.

But hey, Luke's team defenses finished 69th, 88th, and 165th. And he was one of the worst defensive players on his team his second and third year. 

But yea man i guess Luke is a better defender because he blocks 1-2% more shots each game in help defense.

Its DJOver

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2930
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2023, 04:27:30 PM »
Defenses with Stevie, OMax and most importantly Shaka are always going to be better than defenses with Rowsey and Wojo.  It would really depend on the other personnel and scheme.  I could see a case for either.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26283
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2023, 08:59:35 PM »
Yea man of course, ignore the one thing i was clearly referring to  nd choose the other two aspects of the game he referenced.

Here are some baseline unquestionable facts.

Oso was a solid bench defender in his first year, and then was the anchor of a defense his second year. His team defenses finished 55th his first year and 43rd his second year. And Marquette's team defense was significantly worse when Oso was off the court each year.

But hey, Luke's team defenses finished 69th, 88th, and 165th. And he was one of the worst defensive players on his team his second and third year. 

But yea man i guess Luke is a better defender because he blocks 1-2% more shots each game in help defense.

But we aren't talking just this past year, we're talking over roughly the past 15. Oso type bigs were not the standard. Luke's defense was transformational that first year he was here. Marquette went from the #159 defense without him to #46 with him per Torvik. He also started more games than any other center and played more minutes per game than any other season of his career, so the "against...second units" is simply not true. And I think you're putting way too much on him the next two years. Luke was fine his second year, our interior problem was Henry Ellenson couldn't guard a lick. And our defense cratered the next year because of scheme and two sub-6-foot guards in the backcourt. Rowsey didn't care to play defense, Howard wasn't good enough as a freshman.

Oso is a better defender in space, Luke is better at protecting the paint. When Luke was deployed in a system that allowed him to stay home, he did well. College basketball has changed significantly in the last 5-7 years. Luke was better for 5 years ago, Oso is better for now. If Oso does what he did for another year, I would put him ahead of Luke. But I wouldn't pencil him in there quite yet.

But bottom line, there's a case for Luke, and I don't think you can argue any big other than Oso against him. Luke was a competent and efficient offensive player that kept defenses honest and he wasn't a defensive turnstile like Gardner.
This space reserved for a 2024 National Championship celebration banner.

wadesworld

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 17199
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2023, 09:20:18 PM »
If they’re including the 2009-2010 season in “since 2010” then the clear answer is Lazar and Jae are your 4/5 along with Kolek, Markus, and DJO. Of course Jimmy would get it based on what he’s done in the NBA, but DJO was the better college player.

That’s 3 BEPOYs in one group.
Rocket Trigger Warning (wild that saying this would trigger anyone, but it's the world we live in): Black Lives Matter

THRILLHO

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 524
    • twitter feed
Re: 2010s and On CBB Bracket
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2023, 12:24:17 AM »
Yea man of course, ignore the one thing i was clearly referring to  nd choose the other two aspects of the game he referenced.

I'm just pointing out you ignored the more defensible part of his argument and focused on the less defensible part.  Could've just led with this!