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Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Author Topic: 2023-2024 Expectations  (Read 56627 times)

Lennys Tap

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #325 on: June 05, 2023, 07:43:23 AM »
+1

Funny think about Omax is how little attention he got on this team while being as important as TKO and Oso.

OMax was very important and undervalued by some for sure. As important as TKO? No way. As important as Oso? Debatable but no.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #326 on: June 05, 2023, 08:25:39 AM »
17 conference wins is not repeatable, so I anticipate more Scoop meltdowns this year.

Otherwise, my expectations for this team are sky high. There’s no reason an already great offense shouldn’t be significantly better. The only question is defense in the wake of losing O-Max. Can this unit improve enough collectively to offset his departure? They’ll need to be better than last year to have a real shot at going deep.

Ultimately I expect this team to be battling at the top of the Big East and to make deep runs in the BE and NCAA tournaments. How we measure success will hinge on the NCAAT, even more than usual. Anything less than S16 is an outright disappointment, but really we need E8 or beyond. This is a special opportunity.

Agreed.  A deep run in the tournament should be the expectation with what we have coming back.

jfp61

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #327 on: June 05, 2023, 10:52:15 AM »
Agreed.  A deep run in the tournament should be the expectation with what we have coming back.

The only problem i have with people declaring deep tourney runs as an expectation, is the notion that tournament runs are equivalent to one another. They aren't sometimes you play the best teams sometimes destroying them, and sometimes you don't.

Kansas 2022 National title run isn't as impressive as say Villanova's in 2018. for instance.

Kansas played the 8 seed led by caleb love in the final. They ended up playing a light miami team in the elite 8. They played the luckiest team ever in Cooley's friars. They played a 12 loss Creighton team. 1 top 2 win over Nova.

2018 Villanova steam rolled everyone playing a Michigan team in the final, with three solid nba players on it. They did the same to a kansas team with 2 nba players on it. They beat Beard and Culver's Texas Tech, and West Virgina's Jevon carter. They took    Collin Sexton's and Herbert Jones's bama team to the wood shed. 4 top 12 wins.

It is too matchup dependent. It is naive to expect a "tournament run" ever. Sometimes you play a 4 seed in the sweet 16 who figures it out and wins it all.

If you expect more than one round out of any non 1 seed. you are just setting yourself up for failure.

Do you think the 2011 or 2013 Marquette teams were substantially better than this years team?

I don't, but those teams made tournament runs.  2013, they won the first two games by 3 points, and went to the elite 8. They beat the SOCON winning Davidson team by one point because Davidson choked on rice.

StillAWarrior

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #328 on: June 05, 2023, 10:56:22 AM »
Kansas 2022 National title run isn't as impressive as say Villanova's in 2018. for instance.

For the record, I'll happily accept even an unimpressive National title run.
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jfp61

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #329 on: June 05, 2023, 10:57:16 AM »
For the record, I'll happily accept even an unimpressive National title run.
same... i just don't expect it

GoldenEagles03

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #330 on: June 05, 2023, 12:01:33 PM »
COLE
O    L
L.   O
ELOC

Top 24 isn't low expectations.  That's where we should be.

If they fall a little lower on the seed lines because of a tough schedule, big deal, they still have enough talent to make a run.  Seed lines don't matter.
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Jay Bee

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #331 on: June 05, 2023, 12:28:03 PM »
same... i just don't expect it

#crapshoot, aina

I’ll be fine with a 6 seed or better in the tourney. A BET 6 seed or worse, meaning we’d play on Wednesday, would hurt my soul
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Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #332 on: June 05, 2023, 01:01:36 PM »
Top 24 isn't low expectations.  That's where we should be.

If they fall a little lower on the seed lines because of a tough schedule, big deal, they still have enough talent to make a run.  Seed lines don't matter.

Disagree.

Seed lines can and do matter. It doesn’t mean you can’t lose early with a high seed as we saw this season. And of course a team can still have a nice run in the tourney with a lower seed as we saw as well this year. However, the higher the seed the better.

You’re salivating over Villanova yet you wouldn’t be disappointed if a top 10 team that was a 2 seed and returns every significant contributor except for one ends up as a 6 seed.

So yeah, to me if this team is healthy and finishes as a 6 seed that’ll be extremely disappointing.


GoldenEagles03

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #333 on: June 05, 2023, 01:05:45 PM »
Disagree.

Seed lines can and do matter. It doesn’t mean you can’t lose early with a high seed as we saw this season. And of course a team can still have a nice run in the tourney with a lower seed as we saw as well this year. However, the higher the seed the better.

You’re salivating over Villanova yet you wouldn’t be disappointed if a top 10 team that was a 2 seed and returns every significant contributor except for one ends up as a 6 seed.

So yeah, to me if this team is healthy and finishes as a 6 seed that’ll be extremely disappointing.

I said the computers/Vegas are going to love Villanova because of the production their roster produced last year (though mostly with different teams).

OMax isn't just a guy, he's probably the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.

Marquette was a 4 seed at the initial Top 16 reveal and finished strong to get to the 2 line. I expect the Big East to be significantly better as well as Marquettes schedule to be significantly tougher.

I don't expect Marquette to be worse, but their results probably will be in the regular season.
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Nukem2

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #334 on: June 05, 2023, 01:20:32 PM »
I said the computers/Vegas are going to love Villanova because of the production their roster produced last year (though mostly with different teams).

OMax isn't just a guy, he's probably the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.

Marquette was a 4 seed at the initial Top 16 reveal and finished strong to get to the 2 line. I expect the Big East to be significantly better as well as Marquettes schedule to be significantly tougher.

I don't expect Marquette to be worse, but their results probably will be in the regular season.
Yep, it’s hard to go 17-3 in conference play and the NC schedule is not easy and it’s hard to go as injury-free as this past season. Still going to be a very good team, but the numbers likely not to be as good .

Vander Blue Man Group

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #335 on: June 05, 2023, 04:16:39 PM »
I said the computers/Vegas are going to love Villanova because of the production their roster produced last year (though mostly with different teams).

OMax isn't just a guy, he's probably the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.

Marquette was a 4 seed at the initial Top 16 reveal and finished strong to get to the 2 line. I expect the Big East to be significantly better as well as Marquettes schedule to be significantly tougher.

I don't expect Marquette to be worse, but their results probably will be in the regular season.

Remind me where I said OMax was "just a guy"...  And Oso was the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek. 

Your comment on Nova:  "Is an unreal starting 5.  WOW.".  Like I said, salivating.  And exaggerating. 

Marquette can end up with a worse overall and Big East record and still end up with a top 4 seed.  Sure, they'll likely have more losses but they'll have even more opportunities for impactful wins. 


Tyler COLEk

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #336 on: June 05, 2023, 10:54:55 PM »
O-Max being the second most important player on last year’s team is total revisionist history. The vast majority of fans, including all the oracles of scoop, rated him a distant fourth. Some would’ve gone as low as fifth or sixth.

We could debate that he was more valuable than we thought—primary for his defensive contributions—but it feels like his pro assessments have tilted the scales retrospectively.

Don’t get me wrong, I really liked his game and that he played his best ball when it counted most. But even with his departure I think it’s reasonable to expect Marquette to improve year over year. The question is how much.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2023, 10:57:29 PM by Tyler COLEk »

GoldenEagles03

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #337 on: June 05, 2023, 11:02:38 PM »
O-Max being the second most important player on last year’s team is total revisionist history. The vast majority of fans, including all the oracles of scoop, rated him a distant fourth. Some would’ve gone as low as fifth or sixth.

We could debate that he was more valuable than we thought—primary for his defensive contributions—but it feels like his pro assessments have tilted the scales retrospectively.

He was guarding the other teams best player almost ever night while also scoring 12.5 each night in nearly 30 minutes. He was also the most athletic player on the team (along with Chase) and quickest up and down the court.

A lot say his importance goes beyond the box score, but he also filled the box scores too. He's going to be tough to replace.

With all the growth and development I expect to see, I think Marquette absolutely could be a better team (regardless of what the record says compared to last year), but it won't be seamless.
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Jay Bee

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #338 on: June 06, 2023, 08:31:49 AM »
A lot say his importance goes beyond the box score, but he also filled the box scores too.

He filled the box score? With what? His low-for-his-size-and-athleticism DR%, that trailed both Tyler and Kam? His tiny block %? His low steal rate? His miniscule assist rate?

We will miss the d (pawz), his movement in transition and ability to get to the line.

I think another year in college, and he could have bolstered some of his other stats. I can't say that for some other guys.. I think they will be lesser statistically in 2023-24 tbh.
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Hards Alumni

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #339 on: June 06, 2023, 11:44:35 AM »
O-Max being the second most important player on last year’s team is total revisionist history. The vast majority of fans, including all the oracles of scoop, rated him a distant fourth. Some would’ve gone as low as fifth or sixth.

We could debate that he was more valuable than we thought—primary for his defensive contributions—but it feels like his pro assessments have tilted the scales retrospectively.

Don’t get me wrong, I really liked his game and that he played his best ball when it counted most. But even with his departure I think it’s reasonable to expect Marquette to improve year over year. The question is how much.

Going to need receipts on this one, because I don't believe it.

Tyler COLEk

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #340 on: June 06, 2023, 11:59:51 AM »
Going to need receipts on this one, because I don't believe it.

I’m obviously not going to spend 12 hours combing through game threads for you. You’d find limitless handwringing about his balance and overall offensive game. Honestly I’m surprised this is even being contested. The consensus order was Kolek > Oso/Kam > O-Max.

MU82

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #341 on: June 06, 2023, 01:14:45 PM »
I’m obviously not going to spend 12 hours combing through game threads for you. You’d find limitless handwringing about his balance and overall offensive game. Honestly I’m surprised this is even being contested. The consensus order was Kolek > Oso/Kam > O-Max.

O-Max was an outstanding defender who was inconsistent offensively. We'll 100% miss his ability to extend our defense, to defend 1-5, and to occasionally provide an offensive lift.

But if we have to rate players ...

You wouldn't put Kolek (BEPOY and top-3 assists nationally) and Oso (All-BE player who anchored our defense and served as offensive fulcrum) ahead of O-Max on the value meter?

Personally, O-Max's defense put him ahead of Kam for me, but I can see a case being made for Kam. Those who rated Stevie or any of the subs ahead of O-Max last season simply don't know basketball.

Assuming O-Max gets drafted, it won't really be because of what he did at Marquette. As is always the case, it will be because of his potential. That a guy with his size, athleticism and defensive ability is seen as a very good prospect by NBA types doesn't make him more valuable than Kolek or Oso to last season's MU team IMHO.

Bottom line: I sure wish he would have played another year for a Marquette team with championship aspirations, though I don't blame him at all for leaving.
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Goose

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #342 on: June 06, 2023, 01:28:57 PM »
Kolek was the MVP last year and Omax was the most important player. Anyone that does not know the value he brought to the team last year must not have watched very closely. I find crazy that there would be any debate over the value Omax brought to the team, but I am not surprised.

GoldenEagles03

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #343 on: June 06, 2023, 01:31:18 PM »
Marquette dropped from a 1 to a 3 seed in Lunardis bracketology with the departure of OMax.

We are screwed.
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lawdog77

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #344 on: June 06, 2023, 01:39:20 PM »
Kolek was the MVP last year and Omax was the most important player. Anyone that does not know the value he brought to the team last year must not have watched very closely. I find crazy that there would be any debate over the value Omax brought to the team, but I am not surprised.
The strength of our team last year was offense, IMO. That makes Kolek the MVP, MOP, MIP , or whatever you want to call it. SOTG totals reflect that as well. Of course I think we will miss O-Max, but we'd miss Kolek, or Oso a lot more.

Goose

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #345 on: June 06, 2023, 01:52:22 PM »
lawdog

Several of their best halves of basketball started 100% on the defensive end that carried over to the offensive side of the court. In three of those games Omax led on the D side of the court and made several key quick baskets to start the half. Going from memory, but Omax was a big part of their offensive nights. I only need to go back to the Baylor game to see the role he played last season.

MU82

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #346 on: June 06, 2023, 02:27:36 PM »
Several of their best halves of basketball started 100% on the defensive end that carried over to the offensive side of the court. In three of those games Omax led on the D side of the court and made several key quick baskets to start the half. Going from memory, but Omax was a big part of their offensive nights. I only need to go back to the Baylor game to see the role he played last season.

I won't dispute that O-Max had the value you describe above, and I appreciate what he brought. But going from memory, I only need to go back to lots and lots and lots and lots of games to see the role Oso played last season.
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lawdog77

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #347 on: June 06, 2023, 02:30:51 PM »
lawdog

Several of their best halves of basketball started 100% on the defensive end that carried over to the offensive side of the court. In three of those games Omax led on the D side of the court and made several key quick baskets to start the half. Going from memory, but Omax was a big part of their offensive nights. I only need to go back to the Baylor game to see the role he played last season.
As good as he was vs Baylor, he was as bad in our losses versus:
Wisconsin 3-11
Purdue 2-5
Miss St-1-6
Providence 3-9
UConn 0-1
Xavier 4-9

My recollection of his offensive game is that he was very inconsistent. He showed flashes of NBA potential, then disappeared others.

As good as our offense was last year, it could be better this year.

Goose

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #348 on: June 06, 2023, 02:38:22 PM »
Lawdog

Omax did struggle offensively in those games and so did the team in many of them. Our best offensive games had the good Omax on offense.

Jay Bee

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Re: 2023-2024 Expectations
« Reply #349 on: June 06, 2023, 02:51:20 PM »
As good as he was vs Baylor, he was as bad in our losses versus:
Wisconsin 3-11
Purdue 2-5
Miss St-1-6
Providence 3-9
UConn 0-1
Xavier 4-9

My recollection of his offensive game is that he was very inconsistent. He showed flashes of NBA potential, then disappeared others.

As good as our offense was last year, it could be better this year.

Not sure what FG% matters, but… disagree on Becky and X. Not bad in either

Vs Becky you left out 7p at the line (8 trips), only 1 turnover w 26% usage. ORtg 105

At X, no turnovers in 30 mins. 116 ORtg

Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.