MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenEagles03 on March 28, 2023, 10:42:42 AM
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I think it is safe to say that 2022-2023 exceeded all of our expectations, even for those of you that were optimistic.
Just looking for thoughts on how you will all determine, next year, whether Marquette improved from this year or not.
Is it strictly tournament based? Make a Sweet 16 and that's improvement?
Is it record based? Do better than 29-7 or win 30 games?
Given the expected improvement of the conference as a whole and the loaded Maui field I wouldn't be shocked even a little if Marquette loses more than 7 games...in fact I've come to realize how ridiculous it is to only lose 7 games in a College Hoops Season.
So what are your thoughts?
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Expectation floor (with current roster) is:
Top 3 Big East
Play in conference finals
S16.
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Expectation floor (with current roster) is:
Top 3 Big East
Play in conference finals
S16.
Good floor. I’ll add top 25 all season, not that that means anything. I suppose we could aim for, at a minimum, top 50-60 offense and defense all season. All as a floor.
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Hard to say until we know what the roster, and the rest of the league looks like.
They'll almost certainly lose more games. As you said, the Maui field is loaded and the conference looks to be stronger assuming SJU and Georgetown add through the portal.
That said, a Sweet 16 would be my minimum expectation assuming everyone returns.
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More nets
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We don’t know how the roster is going to shake out completely yet so it’s hard to put a final stamp on it. Though if it all holds together, I’m just going to simply say I expect a protected (top 4) seed again. I don’t want to put expectations on single elimination games but I think if MU continues to put themselves in that position, they’ll eventually break through. We might have to suffer a few more heartbreaks before it happens, but I just want the program to be relevant and in position to make a run next year.
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For the team to play hard, have fun and excel in the classroom
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Expectation floor (with current roster) is:
Top 3 Big East
Play in conference finals
S16.
I'm incredibly excited to see more growth.
It is just so tough to do better than 29-7 and double Big East Titles, especially in a Conference that is getting much better.
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For the team to play hard, have fun and excel in the classroom
Spoken like a true Uncle. Have fun, party a little, and win some games.
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Honestly, just consistency. Stay top 25. Bench looks more ready for minutes when 2-3+ guys go pro at the end of next year.
Hope the defense doesn't bottom out if one of our forwards leaves now.
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Hope the defense doesn't bottom out if one of our forwards leaves now.
Yeah, that's a huge concern of mine. There's no one on the roster who can switch 1-4 like OMax can.
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For the team to play hard, have fun and excel in the classroom
Show good sportsmanship?
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Improvement = 1 seed or 2 seed+ a trip to the Sweet 16 or further
Treading Water = 2 seed and second round exit or 3 or 4 seed that doesn't go further than Sweet 16
Going backwards = 5 seed or less and a team that doesn't make the Final 4
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Have an open roster spot. Add a knock down perimeter shooter and everyone on the roster hit the weight room hard. Todd Smith better earn that paycheck this offseason.
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Just hoping we have 5 in the roster so we can field a team!
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Deep tourney run. Honestly, if the top 9 are all back, it's Final Four or bust next year.
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Deep tourney run. Honestly, if the top 9 are all back, it's Final Four or bust next year.
You really think so? Not saying you're wrong but I always hesitate to throw that phrase around in College Hoops with it being single elim.
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Show good sportsmanship?
That, too
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U Conn showed what is important and what is not this season. Just get a bid and be ready to play your best ball of the season. The Kolek injury showed how lucky MU was to have healthy players for the whole season. It's crazy to think that MU can go another whole season without missing some key players. I'd say success looks like top 3 conference finish, 4 seed or higher and round of 8.
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I expect Marquette to be a very good team in 2023-24.
We don't even know who will be on our roster yet, so I'll just go with what Rico says until we do know.
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Undefeated season.
Win all close games.
No close games.
5 All Americans.
Beat Lakers in secret scrimmage....by 30.
Sell out every home game.
No one goes to the MECCA bar .
No one buys Budweiser products.
3 more transfers in that are AA on other teams.
Everyone uses their NIL money to become walk ons.
Any less expectations are COLE.
Miss anything?
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Avoid getting crapshooted
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Show good sportsmanship?
Participation ribbon.
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Beat Wisconsin. Enjoy the big city, bright lights, pretty girls.
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Beat Wisconsin. Enjoy the big city, bright lights, pretty girls.
Uncle Viper
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Have fewer than 10 losses when all is said and done I'll be happy.
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Beat Wisconsin
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This year they accomplished everything I could have hoped for. However now I do think my hopes shift to the NCAA Tournament. Much will come down to how the offseason goes. If we have three key players transfer out or declare for the draft, it will recalibrate expectations. But if everyone returns, I think my expectation would be to generally remain the top-10 team we were this year, love to set the record for the longest times between being ranked #1, earn a protected seed, and get to the second weekend at minimum.
I think a 1-seed is certainly on the table if everyone comes back, so it's hard not to set expectations really high for next year, but continued progress is my real hope. I also think establishing some of the younger players as future stars in the event we see major departures next year is important. This needs to be sustainable.
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You really think so? Not saying you're wrong but I always hesitate to throw that phrase around in College Hoops with it being single elim.
Sure, there are other season results that could still make the season a success.
But for me personally, next year is about tournament success. Feels like this group already accomplished regular season and BET success. Repeating as champs in either or both would be nice, but a run in the NCAA tourney is what I really want.
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Undefeated season.
Win all close games.
No close games.
5 All Americans.
Beat Lakers in secret scrimmage....by 30.
Sell out every home game.
No one goes to the MECCA bar .
No one buys Budweiser products.
3 more transfers in that are AA on other teams.
Everyone uses their NIL money to become walk ons.
Any less expectations are COLE.
Miss anything?
Major Goolsby's get awarded at least Two MICHELIN stars
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Top 3 finish in Conference.
Trip to the Elite 8.
My “hope/expectation” for 2023 before the season started was 1 NCAA win.
Of course the regular season and conference tournament shattered all hopes.
My hope/expectation for next season is at least a top 3 finish in the Big East and jumping up from 1 NCAA tournament win to 3 wins, and a trip to the Elite 8.
Anything better is exceeding expectations.
Anything worse is falling short.
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I expect a worse regular season (based on record) due to stronger opponents and a better NCAA result.
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That, too
Learn some important life lessons?
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Learn some important life lessons?
That’s one of the most important things of being a student athlete. Being part of a team should teach leadership like letter writing. Really invaluable lesson
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2-1 in maui
3-1 vs Big 10, Big 12, Bucky & Notre Dame
14-6 in Conf
BE Semi's
Elite 8
The last one is really the only one that matters IMO. College basketball today is a March sport, I hate it but it is (thanks NFL). I am really glad and proud that we won the BE outright and won the BET. Huge accomplishments for our program. But it is time to win in March (and April).
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Undefeated season.
Win all close games.
No close games.
5 All Americans.
Beat Lakers in secret scrimmage....by 30.
Sell out every home game.
No one goes to the MECCA bar .
No one buys Budweiser products.
3 more transfers in that are AA on other teams.
Everyone uses their NIL money to become walk ons.
Any less expectations are COLE.
Miss anything?
Student section with unique and organized cheers.
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This year they accomplished everything I could have hoped for. However now I do think my hopes shift to the NCAA Tournament. Much will come down to how the offseason goes. If we have three key players transfer out or declare for the draft, it will recalibrate expectations. But if everyone returns, I think my expectation would be to generally remain the top-10 team we were this year, love to set the record for the longest times between being ranked #1, earn a protected seed, and get to the second weekend at minimum.
It will be interesting to see if others who insisted that Big East titles were more important than NCAA tournament success this season also will shift gears for future seasons now that they've gotten to celebrate Big East titles while experiencing first-weekend-exit disappointment.
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It will be interesting to see if others who insisted that Big East titles were more important than NCAA tournament success this season also will shift gears for future seasons now that they've gotten to celebrate Big East titles while experiencing first-weekend-exit disappointment.
After wandering in the Wojo abyss of underachievement for as long as we did, getting the regular season and BET championships were huge. Now it’s time to take the next step and have consistent tournament success.
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After wandering in the Wojo abyss of underachievement for as long as we did, getting the regular season and BET tournaments were huge. Now it’s time to take the next step and have consistent tournament success.
Yup. Always looking to exceed what you did previous.
It's ok to be really happy with what happened this year and hope to take the next step in March next year.
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Well, at this point there is a spot for an impact transfer. Like many, I'd like to see a rebounder who can also give Oso breathers.
It will probably hinge on keeping the big 3 together, but we may be OK if Shaka is directing the off-season improvements that we saw this year.
This year's team did so damn well that it's going to be hard to top. Obviously the missing piece is better success in the Dance.
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Pretty hard to do better than last year in the regular season and BE tourney, so I'm hoping we can repeat that. Would love to see us ranked in or around the top 10 all year. Obviously the one disappointment last year was getting knocked out of the tourney in the second round. Would be nice to make a deeper run but March is so fickle.
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Lots and lots of playing time for the walk-ons. That means everything else has taken care of itself.
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Now that we've seen EE and Keeyan enter the portal are we feeling good about the other guys or too soon to tell? While I don't think it guarantees anything I do see it as positive.
Obviously, guys like Omax and Oso may declare for the draft without hiring an agent to get feedback, as they should.
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After wandering in the Wojo abyss of underachievement for as long as we did, getting the regular season and BET championships were huge. Now it’s time to take the next step and have consistent tournament success.
I agree with all of this, and I wasn't trying to suggest that anyone was wrong to believe that what took place in 2022-23 wasn't a "success." I'm greedy and want it all!
March is so fickle.
This belongs in the crapshoot thread.
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Avoid getting crapshooted
*Crapshot ;D
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Win Maui, go to #1.
The rest is gravy.
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Being ranked higher than 9th in the Big East coach's preseason rankings
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My goals, if not expectation, for MU every season are:
1. Be competitive with the top teams in the Big East with at least a shot at winning the conference title. That part comes from my selfish interests as a season ticketholder that all of the conference games have significance in a bigger picture to make them more enjoyable.
2. Be a team that is considered “should be in” the NCAA tournament for most of the season, and moves into the “lock” category at least a couple,of weeks before Selection Sunday. I want to be watching for better seeds not just trying to sneak in on the right side of the bubble. A top 4 seed seems like a realistic goal, and anything less than that a makes it tougher to expect a deep NCAA run.
3. Now that MU has finally made a BET final, and won a title, I look at that as less of a priority. But, winning some games there is always nice, even if only to solidify NCAA seeding.
4. Making at least the second weekend of the NCAA tournament is always a goal, but I still consider that a hard one to make a necessary element of a successful season. If the goals I listed for the rest of the season haven’ t been met, making the Sweet 16 would be more difficult and wouldn’t by itself overcome a mediocre season.
As other have said, it’s hard to set specific expectations for next season until we see who is on MU’s roster and the rosters of other conference teams. I think it is unlikely that MU will win 17 conference games again, but I do expect them to be a contender for the title. If some of the lower teams improve, a record of 15-5 could easily be enough for at least a share of the title.
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I think we have a lower floor than most expected top 10 teams. Shaka has created the expectation that he can create a team that operates above its individual parts. This past year was a special group, I'm not ready to believe that level of play is the norm.
I'm hopeful for a s16 and top 3 conf finish, but it doesn't take much to fall short of that. Making the NCAA with a top 6ish seed would be my overall season expectation. Sets the expectation that you are a quality team and have a punchers chance for something special to happen.
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It will be interesting to see if others who insisted that Big East titles were more important than NCAA tournament success this season also will shift gears for future seasons now that they've gotten to celebrate Big East titles while experiencing first-weekend-exit disappointment.
I am certain I will care more about NCAA success next season than I did this one. This year, 1 NCAA win was enough, especially with all the hardware won. Next year, I want more NCAA wins. I am generally a proponent of seeing things I've never seen before. That's why this year was so awesome. Going forward, the "what I haven't seen before" is mostly centered around cutting down nets at the Final Four.
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Beat Wisconsin. Enjoy the big city, bright lights, pretty girls.
Beat somebody in Big 10
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I think we will be so good we will be able to discuss our preferred NCAA matchups all the way into the Final Four before the first game.
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I am certain I will care more about NCAA success next season than I did this one. This year, 1 NCAA win was enough, especially with all the hardware won. Next year, I want more NCAA wins. I am generally a proponent of seeing things I've never seen before. That's why this year was so awesome. Going forward, the "what I haven't seen before" is mostly centered around cutting down nets at the Final Four.
Cutting the nets down with a switchblade on the shoulders of a 6'11 man mountain
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Cutting the nets down with a switchblade on the shoulders of a 6'11 man mountain
Ben Gold is 6’ 11”
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All of us should be in full attack mode by June 1st. There should be incalculable motivation to be dominant in 23-24.
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Ben Gold is 6’ 11”
There are mountains in New Zealand
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OMax sighting 🤔
https://twitter.com/theathleticnba/status/1640723164601933824?s=46&t=QSiaGcOIKZrrpw0ciZkI5Q
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I am certain I will care more about NCAA success next season than I did this one. This year, 1 NCAA win was enough, especially with all the hardware won. Next year, I want more NCAA wins. I am generally a proponent of seeing things I've never seen before. That's why this year was so awesome. Going forward, the "what I haven't seen before" is mostly centered around cutting down nets at the Final Four.
Thanks for the response. Several other Scoopers have expressed similar "now that I've seen a BE title, I care more about NCAAT success" feelings. Interesting shift, and I do understand it.
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I wish all the coaches and student athletes the best of health and hope they take time to smell the roses. Their time at Marquette will be cherished forever. When its time for next season lets work hard, have fun and relish every victory. There will be many. Raise our toast of milkshakes for everyone - coaches, players, students, teachers, instructors, professors, and all scoopers. Ring out ahoya!
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My expectations are that Marquette players' experience will really show next year, especially with our freshmen turned sophomores. It was thrilling to see our guys play far better than anyone expected them to this season. Our experience will benefit us in the Big Dance, where we should be SS at a minimum, and more likely EE or better. I believe there is a mountain of evidence linking experience with teams' tourney success.
A conference record of maybe 15-5 (maybe even 14-6) is far more likely than a repeat of this season's tally. With Pitino and Cooley cashing in on the transfer market, sweeps of GT and SJ (and Creighton) may be difficult to pull off. And then there's UCONN and Xavier, among others. The BE will be an even tougher neighborhood, and we will sneak up on no one. There will be a target on our back.
Having won the regular title and BET this season, it would be only mildly disappointing if we did not repeat. I think we will have a more solid team (for lack of a better word) meaning that a step back in our W/L will not indicate a step back in strength and depth. With Maui and a tougher BE, we will be tougher by playing tough teams.
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National Championship!
There is no other goal. None!
If this year proved anything, it's that nothing is stable in the NCAA these days. If FAU, San Diego State and Miami can put together runs to the Final Four, we should be able to do so as well!
We'll be a year more mature; we have new and exciting freshmen coming to MU. Gosh, we may even get some inside help for Oso. The foundation is there and now it's time to build on what could have been. And, we beat UConn two times in three attempts!
Gang, it's time! We're back and it's time to F**k 'em! We Are Marquette needs to mean something! As in, look out world, we're taking no prisoners!
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National Championship!
There is no other goal. None!
If this year proved anything, it's that nothing is stable in the NCAA these days. If FAU, San Diego State and Miami can put together runs to the Final Four, we should be able to do so as well!
We'll be a year more mature; we have new and exciting freshmen coming to MU. Gosh, we may even get some inside help for Oso. The foundation is there and now it's time to build on what could have been. And, we beat UConn two times in three attempts!
Gang, it's time! We're back and it's time to F**k 'em! We Are Marquette needs to mean something! As in, look out world, we're taking no prisoners!
Of course a national title is always the goal. But the thread is about expectations.
Do you expect a national title next season? I certainly expect us to at least be legitimately in the chase for it.
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Of course a national title is always the goal. But the thread is about expectations.
Do you expect a national title next season? I certainly expect us to at least be legitimately in the chase for it.
Actually, I rather do expect one.
Why not? We're experienced. We've shown we can play with anyone and we're as well coached as any team in the country. If this year proved anything, it's that anything is possible if you work at it hard enough!
Brother MU, I want you and all the other Scoopers who joined Marquette Nation after 1977 to experience what we did! It was incredible!
No COLE here!
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National Championship!
There is no other goal. None!
If this year proved anything, it's that nothing is stable in the NCAA these days. If FAU, San Diego State and Miami can put together runs to the Final Four, we should be able to do so as well!
We'll be a year more mature; we have new and exciting freshmen coming to MU. Gosh, we may even get some inside help for Oso. The foundation is there and now it's time to build on what could have been. And, we beat UConn two times in three attempts!
Gang, it's time! We're back and it's time to F**k 'em! We Are Marquette needs to mean something! As in, look out world, we're taking no prisoners!
I remember well your thread some months ago asking Scoopers what they thought of our chances for another natty. The responses were, umm, not exactly enthusiastic. We'll get there, but I think it will take another season before we have all the tools and experience needed.
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Actually, I rather do expect one.
Why not? We're experienced. We've shown we can play with anyone and we're as well coached as any team in the country. If this year proved anything, it's that anything is possible if you work at it hard enough!
Brother MU, I want you and all the other Scoopers who joined Marquette Nation after 1977 to experience what we did! It was incredible!
No COLE here!
Nice, dg.
A national title is definitely possible in 2024 if all of our key players return and/or Shaka can use the transfer portal expertly to fill gaps. As I said earlier, I'll wait until I see what the roster looks like before I establish specific expectations for the season, but I certainly am willing to expect a championship.
I mean, I picked us to win it all in my bracket this year. As Maxwell Smart (Shaka's uncle?) used to say: "Missed it by that much!"
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At the moment, my expectations for next year is that talent level will be upgraded. Either by improvements from returning guys, portal additions or both. My biggest question mark for next year is team chemistry. I expect it be at a high level again, but not sure if this season can be matched. It is hard to determine how much the team chemistry played into the success this season.
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At the moment, my expectations for next year is that talent level will be upgraded. Either by improvements from returning guys, portal additions or both. My biggest question mark for next year is team chemistry. I expect it be at a high level again, but not sure if this season can be matched. It is hard to determine how much the team chemistry played into the success this season.
If the talent is upgraded -- and you might be very right that it will be, even if mostly by continued improvement, as was the case this season -- I agree that the sky's the limit. I'm not really worried about chemistry. I trust Shaka to be a master chemist, and guys like TK, Oso and Stevie are leaders.
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I am not worried about chemistry, just thought last year a special year chemistry wise. It may have helped them get a few extra wins this past season. That said, I expect very good chemistry and better talent.
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Not only is chemistry likely to change with player movement, but I’m curious to see how the team responds going from being the hunter to the hunted. They thrived off the underdog, chip on their shoulder f*ck em mentality. Next year will bring more hype and higher expectations
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Not only is chemistry likely to change with player movement, but I’m curious to see how the team responds going from being the hunter to the hunted. They thrived off the underdog, chip on their shoulder f*ck em mentality. Next year will bring more hype and higher expectations
I’d be worried if Buzz Williams was still the coach
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Not only is chemistry likely to change with player movement, but I’m curious to see how the team responds going from being the hunter to the hunted. They thrived off the underdog, chip on their shoulder f*ck em mentality. Next year will bring more hype and higher expectations
The best thing that could happen to them would be a collective feeling amongst Big East coaches that this season was a fluke and pick them like sixth or something. I doubt it will happen.
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I’d be worried if Buzz Williams was still the coach
I’d be terrified if Wojo was still the coach.
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The best thing that could happen to them would be a collective feeling amongst Big East coaches that this season was a fluke and pick them like sixth or something. I doubt it will happen.
There is a decent chance they will be picked 3rd. Creighton can bring everyone back. It’s up to Schiermann. UConn will probably bring everyone back except Hawkins and they have a 6’8 McDonalds PG coming in. Not saying we will be picked 3rd. Just saying it’s possible.
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There is a decent chance they will be picked 3rd. Creighton can bring everyone back. It’s up to Schiermann. UConn will probably bring everyone back except Hawkins and they have a 6’8 McDonalds PG coming in. Not saying we will be picked 3rd. Just saying it’s possible.
It would not surprise me at all. This year's team was definitely greater than the sum of its parts. It'll be interesting to see how much credit the pre-season predictions give to that factor next year. Obviously there could be significant changes on all the rosters, so we'll wait and see.
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Have fewer than 10 losses when all is said and done I'll be happy.
Less than 10 losses have been my definition of a great season for a long time.
Since 2000
Crean(Wade) twice.
Buzz once
Shaka once.
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It will be interesting to see if others who insisted that Big East titles were more important than NCAA tournament success this season also will shift gears for future seasons now that they've gotten to celebrate Big East titles while experiencing first-weekend-exit disappointment.
I will still take winning Big East titles, because in the end it does not matter much, if you lose in before the final four.
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My expectations are that Gold, S. Jones and Ross show significant improvement.
However, without a significant improvement in rebounding I do not see us as a threat to win NCAA title.
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There is a decent chance they will be picked 3rd. Creighton can bring everyone back. It’s up to Schiermann. UConn will probably bring everyone back except Hawkins and they have a 6’8 McDonalds PG coming in. Not saying we will be picked 3rd. Just saying it’s possible.
I expect a 2nd or 3rd place pre-season pick for MU.
I think the coaches will be hard-pressed not to pick UConn first--especially if they win a championship and Hawkins is the only departure. I think MU vs. Creighton becomes a pick'em. for 2nd/3rd before knowing who Xavier, UConn, and St. Johns manage to land.
I'm going to assume that Pitino will be successful in building an all-star lineup via the portal, and he's a proven winner who I think will be competitive in year one. They may well be picked ahead of MU, and it wouldn't be because coaches thought MU was a "fluke" last year--it will be a reputation pick based on their coach. But I don't expect anything worse than 4th or 5th.
At Xavier, Miller's already proven he can work the portal to fill holes in the roster. Colby Jones is a huge hole to fill, but so was Scruggs the year before, and Souley Boum more than sufficed as a replacement. They likely get Freemantle back, maybe Nunge returning, and if they get frosh-to-soph improvement similar to what MU's guys showed last year, they're certainly in the mix at the top. Good recruiting class (2nd in the Big East after UConn).
Would I rank them ahead of Creighton and Marquette? Not likely, but a strong portal showing could put them there.
Cooley has been effective at pulling guys out of the portal to keep Providence competitive, and PC is a tough place for that to happen. He's going be overshadowed by Pitino, who's trying the same type of year-one rebuild. But he has a much better program to offer recruits. Assuming he can pull in talent similar to what he did last year (Hopkins, Locke, Carter) as a core, he knows how to get them playing well as a team, and should be at least a middle of the pack team.
I don't think Villanova has any recruiting class right now, and will lose Whitmore--I don't see them in the top six, but based on their returning guys it's easy to pick them seventh ahead of Seton Hall, DePaul, Butler, and Providence in that order.
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There is a decent chance they will be picked 3rd. Creighton can bring everyone back. It’s up to Schiermann. UConn will probably bring everyone back except Hawkins and they have a 6’8 McDonalds PG coming in. Not saying we will be picked 3rd. Just saying it’s possible.
Creighton is in a similar spot as Marquette.
Kaluma, Scheierman, Alexander, Kalkbrenner are all projected as late 2nd rounders similar to OMax and Oso.
Depends on which kids decide to stay or go.
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Does Nunge really have another year of eligibility left? That must be some kind of record for stacking medical redshirts and the COVID bonus year to get 7 years on a college basketball roster.
I suspect Xavier will be formidable next year with Miller working the portal.
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Does Nunge really have another year of eligibility left? That must be some kind of record for stacking medical redshirts and the COVID bonus year to get 7 years on a college basketball roster.
I suspect Xavier will be formidable next year with Miller working the portal.
Maybe, but he'll need a waiver as he's played in 5 seasons & it would be year 7 overall.
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Does Nunge really have another year of eligibility left? That must be some kind of record for stacking medical redshirts and the COVID bonus year to get 7 years on a college basketball roster.
I suspect Xavier will be formidable next year with Miller working the portal.
I was reading Xavier post-game loss article and it mentioned he has one year eligibility left but he has not decided if he was going to use.
And he's married too, last summer.
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I was reading Xavier post-game loss article and it mentioned he has one year eligibility left but he has not decided if he was going to use.
And he's married too, last summer.
That’s good that he’s married. As a married man, he’ll be a natural leader for the team
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I will still take winning Big East titles, because in the end it does not matter much, if you lose in before the final four.
Why does getting to the Final Four matter if you lose before winning the national title?
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Why does getting to the Final Four matter if you lose before winning the national title?
It’s a regional championship; banner worthy. Major accomplishment.
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Why does getting to the Final Four matter if you lose before winning the national title?
The Final Four matters because you get to the last weekend - each advancement to the next weekend in the tournament gets the program a huge publicity boost and is amazing for the fans because you get a week to salivate on still being in the hunt etc. - getting to the last weekend is rare air..
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Why does getting to the Final Four matter if you lose before winning the national title?
What would Tom Crean say?
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What would Tom Crean say?
Something self serving.
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I was reading Xavier post-game loss article and it mentioned he has one year eligibility left but he has not decided if he was going to use.
And he's married too, last summer.
For what it's worth, Nunge went through Senior Day activities. I think the presumption is he is gone. Freemantle did not get honored on Senior Day even though this was his fourth year and generally I think most anticipated that this was his last year before the late season injury.
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Why does getting to the Final Four matter if you lose before winning the national title?
Al said it was harder to get to the Final Four, than win it.
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Folks, I agree that the Final Four is well worth celebrating.
bilsu, a Moser guy, said: " ... in the end it does not matter much, if you lose in before the final four."
So I just wondered why he thought even the Final Four mattered if you don't win the title.
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Something self serving.
It wasn’t all about him. He did mention Dwyane Wade.
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It wasn’t all about him. He did mention Dwyane Wade.
Nicely done.
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Al said it was harder to get to the Final Four, than win it.
He should have known better than about anyone. Marquette was on the threshold of Final Four several times before breaking through in 1974.
We had really great teams that never quite got there until Maurice Lucas and company got us there!
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It will be interesting to see if others who insisted that Big East titles were more important than NCAA tournament success this season also will shift gears for future seasons now that they've gotten to celebrate Big East titles while experiencing first-weekend-exit disappointment.
I've already posted my goals and expectations for next season, taking into account the uncertainty of not knowing what the rosters for MU and other conference teams will be.
But, I'm going to pose a slightly different question about whether expectations for next season, and feelings about this season, would be affected if this season had gone a little differently.
Let's say, that MU had gone 14-6 in the BE, losing close games to Villanova, Xavier, and Creighton. That gave them a 3 seed in the BET where they lost in the semifinal and earned a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. In the NCAA, they won the first two games, including a second round win over a number 3 seed, before losing in the third round to the region's number 2 seed.
The 2 questions:
1. Would you be happier with that season because of advancing to the Sweet 16?
2. Would your expectations for next season be the same as they are now?
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I've already posted my goals and expectations for next season, taking into account the uncertainty of not knowing what the rosters for MU and other conference teams will be.
But, I'm going to pose a slightly different question about whether expectations for next season, and feelings about this season, would be affected if this season had gone a little differently.
Let's say, that MU had gone 14-6 in the BE, losing close games to Villanova, Xavier, and Creighton. That gave them a 3 seed in the BET where they lost in the semifinal and earned a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. In the NCAA, they won the first two games, including a second round win over a number 3 seed, before losing in the third round to the region's number 2 seed.
The 2 questions:
1. Would you be happier with that season because of advancing to the Sweet 16?
2. Would your expectations for next season be the same as they are now?
There are so many hypotheticals here, it’s hard to answer. That’s not a complaint, it’s just that’s there a lot to consider.
I’d have to take the season on a whole. If they’re competitive and the league is competitive, it’s hard to complain about that result.
I’ll say this, if VERY early projections are correct and the Big East starts the season with 3 teams in the top-10, Marquette won’t be a 6-seed
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I've already posted my goals and expectations for next season, taking into account the uncertainty of not knowing what the rosters for MU and other conference teams will be.
But, I'm going to pose a slightly different question about whether expectations for next season, and feelings about this season, would be affected if this season had gone a little differently.
Let's say, that MU had gone 14-6 in the BE, losing close games to Villanova, Xavier, and Creighton. That gave them a 3 seed in the BET where they lost in the semifinal and earned a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. In the NCAA, they won the first two games, including a second round win over a number 3 seed, before losing in the third round to the region's number 2 seed.
The 2 questions:
1. Would you be happier with that season because of advancing to the Sweet 16?
2. Would your expectations for next season be the same as they are now?
1) I'd take this year's actual results over your hypothetical results.
2) My expectations for next year would be the same if we had the hypothetical results as they are right now based on our actual results.
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I've already posted my goals and expectations for next season, taking into account the uncertainty of not knowing what the rosters for MU and other conference teams will be.
But, I'm going to pose a slightly different question about whether expectations for next season, and feelings about this season, would be affected if this season had gone a little differently.
Let's say, that MU had gone 14-6 in the BE, losing close games to Villanova, Xavier, and Creighton. That gave them a 3 seed in the BET where they lost in the semifinal and earned a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. In the NCAA, they won the first two games, including a second round win over a number 3 seed, before losing in the third round to the region's number 2 seed.
The 2 questions:
1. Would you be happier with that season because of advancing to the Sweet 16?
2. Would your expectations for next season be the same as they are now?
1 No
2 Yes
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Worse regular season record-wise with at least another tournament win, assuming MU's roster is the same + 1.
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There are so many hypotheticals here, it’s hard to answer. That’s not a complaint, it’s just that’s there a lot to consider.
I’d have to take the season on a whole. If they’re competitive and the league is competitive, it’s hard to complain about that result.
I’ll say this, if VERY early projections are correct and the Big East starts the season with 3 teams in the top-10, Marquette won’t be a 6-seed
I chose this hypothetical because it is basically Creighton’s season without the “crapshoot” bonus they got by facing a 15 seed in the third round instead of a 2 seed.
I’ve heard many people here say they would rather have the Sweet 16, but when I think of the some of the fun moments of the last season, Imwoukdnt want to trade them for being alive in the NCAA tournament for 5 more days before suffering a disappointing season ending loss. The extra two days of advancing to the Elite 8 doesn’t get me there either.
When I look back at the 2023 season I’ll remember some great moments, including several games that I was able to attend in person. They include:
1. The early season 1 point win at Villanova. A loss there would have made MU 2-2 in the BE and the loss at Xavier would have put them at 4-3 in the conference and 3 games out of first place. The 5 game winning streak that followed might have sparked hooes, but the loss at UConn would have put MU in a much tougher position going into the home stretch.
2. Take away OMax’s last second put back, and one of the most thrilling wins of the season would instead have been a demoralizing defeat that all but eliminated them from title contention.
3. A loss at Creighton would have been another disappointing result instead of a second straight great win that put MU in the driver’s seat for the title. The last 3 games would have been pretty anticlimactic instead of 3 games that in succession clinched a tie for the title, clinched the outright title, and allowed the team to cut down the nets and celebrate the tilte in front of the home fans.
4. The BET tournament wins over UConn and Xavier were two of the more memorable moments in recent MU history.
Some people would apparently trade all of those moments for a few extra days of being alive in the NCAA tournament before having the season come to a disappointing end. I wouldn’t. Maybe doing those things a second time will be less enjoyable unless they are followed by a longer run in the NCAA tournament. But, I think it would take awhile before regular season and BET titles get to be old hat.
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This season, I wanted a sing NCAAT win above all us. Was tired of hearing about MU and Shaka's combined drought.
In a normal season, I prioritize regular season performance over March...up until the Final Four. Final Four and beyond trumps all.
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He should have known better than about anyone. Marquette was on the threshold of Final Four several times before breaking through in 1974.
We had really great teams that never quite got there until Maurice Lucas and company got us there!
The way the NCAA tournament was structured for most of McGuire’s time at MU, his comment made sense. There was no seeding and the 25 teams were placed in regions based on geography. As an independent, MU was placed in the Mideast Regional (except in 1970 when Al famously rejected an invitation to play in the Midwest Region which I think was set to be played in Texas).
In the first round they would play the champion of the MAC or OVC, and those were usually easy wins. That would put them into the regional where the champions of the Big 10 and SEC were placed for their first tournament games. So, to make the Final Four, MU would likely have to beat the winners of the Big 10 and SEC (usually Kentucky) to get out of the region.
That was generally a tougher path than the other regions, especially the West and Midwest which had fewer strong teams. Of course, from 1964 to 1975 UCLA cruised to the Final Four out of the west every year but one and claimed the title every year but two. The tournament format changed in 1975 when the field was expanded to 32 teams and conference runner ups were eligible for at large bids.
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I chose this hypothetical because it is basically Creighton’s season without the “crapshoot” bonus they got by facing a 15 seed in the third round instead of a 2 seed.
I’ve heard many people here say they would rather have the Sweet 16, but when I think of the some of the fun moments of the last season, Imwoukdnt want to trade them for being alive in the NCAA tournament for 5 more days before suffering a disappointing season ending loss. The extra two days of advancing to the Elite 8 doesn’t get me there either.
When I look back at the 2023 season I’ll remember some great moments, including several games that I was able to attend in person. They include:
1. The early season 1 point win at Villanova. A loss there would have made MU 2-2 in the BE and the loss at Xavier would have put them at 4-3 in the conference and 3 games out of first place. The 5 game winning streak that followed might have sparked hooes, but the loss at UConn would have put MU in a much tougher position going into the home stretch.
2. Take away OMax’s last second put back, and one of the most thrilling wins of the season would instead have been a demoralizing defeat that all but eliminated them from title contention.
3. A loss at Creighton would have been another disappointing result instead of a second straight great win that put MU in the driver’s seat for the title. The last 3 games would have been pretty anticlimactic instead of 3 games that in succession clinched a tie for the title, clinched the outright title, and allowed the team to cut down the nets and celebrate the tilte in front of the home fans.
4. The BET tournament wins over UConn and Xavier were two of the more memorable moments in recent MU history.
Some people would apparently trade all of those moments for a few extra days of being alive in the NCAA tournament before having the season come to a disappointing end. I wouldn’t. Maybe doing those things a second time will be less enjoyable unless they are followed by a longer run in the NCAA tournament. But, I think it would take awhile before regular season and BET titles get to be old hat.
even though the season ended on a bummer, I think we all needed a season like this (Big East and Big East tourney champs, conference POY and both conference and national COY, not to mention a ncaa 2-seed!) because we’ve had 10-years of frustration…per MU standards. Next year, I’d trade a conference or conference tourney title for an Elite 8…which I do think we’ll achieve. btw, I feel more pride in the conference title just because it’s an achievement over 4 months and not 4 days. But, winning both is awesome!!
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Hard not to get antsy reading these preseason Top 25s.
2) MARQUETTE GOLDEN EAGLES
As it stands, Marquette is the safest bet to be a top-5 team entering the 2023-24 season. Shaka Smart’s Golden Eagles are fresh off a breakout year that resulted in 29 wins and a 2-seed in the tournament and are positioned to return the entire squad. Point guard Tyler Kolek will look to defend his Big East Player of the Year award while running mates Kam Jones, Oso Ighodaro and Olivier-Maxence Prosper are poised for leaps as well in one of the country’s best offensive attacks. Although Marquette is supremely talented, Golden Eagles players aren’t commonly found on many NBA Draft big boards at the time of this writing. Barring any unexpected departures, Marquette will be one of the highest-ranked teams come November.
https://twitter.com/brauf33/status/1641894797060329492?t=r1F-MJ98E-y-wvu9EVw68A&s=19
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Hard not to get antsy reading these preseason Top 25s.
2) MARQUETTE GOLDEN EAGLES
As it stands, Marquette is the safest bet to be a top-5 team entering the 2023-24 season. Shaka Smart’s Golden Eagles are fresh off a breakout year that resulted in 29 wins and a 2-seed in the tournament and are positioned to return the entire squad. Point guard Tyler Kolek will look to defend his Big East Player of the Year award while running mates Kam Jones, Oso Ighodaro and Olivier-Maxence Prosper are poised for leaps as well in one of the country’s best offensive attacks. Although Marquette is supremely talented, Golden Eagles players aren’t commonly found on many NBA Draft big boards at the time of this writing. Barring any unexpected departures, Marquette will be one of the highest-ranked teams come November.
https://twitter.com/brauf33/status/1641894797060329492?t=r1F-MJ98E-y-wvu9EVw68A&s=19
The last time MU was Way Too Early number 2 the Hausers left like 3 days later. Given that Shaka told us only most of our minute getters will be back, I’d expect to hear Oso and OMax are gone on Monday.
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The last time MU was Way Too Early number 2 the Hausers left like 3 days later. Given that Shaka told us only most of our minute getters will be back, I’d expect to hear Oso and OMax are gone on Monday.
Good thing this team has a lot of pieces and easy access to replace those guys if that is the case.
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I've already posted my goals and expectations for next season, taking into account the uncertainty of not knowing what the rosters for MU and other conference teams will be.
But, I'm going to pose a slightly different question about whether expectations for next season, and feelings about this season, would be affected if this season had gone a little differently.
Let's say, that MU had gone 14-6 in the BE, losing close games to Villanova, Xavier, and Creighton. That gave them a 3 seed in the BET where they lost in the semifinal and earned a 6 seed in the NCAA tournament. In the NCAA, they won the first two games, including a second round win over a number 3 seed, before losing in the third round to the region's number 2 seed.
The 2 questions:
1. Would you be happier with that season because of advancing to the Sweet 16?
2. Would your expectations for next season be the same as they are now?
1. I'd have been very happy with either.
2. Either way, my expectations would be that we'd be very good in 2023-24.
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I chose this hypothetical because it is basically Creighton’s season without the “crapshoot” bonus they got by facing a 15 seed in the third round instead of a 2 seed.
I’ve heard many people here say they would rather have the Sweet 16, but when I think of the some of the fun moments of the last season, Imwoukdnt want to trade them for being alive in the NCAA tournament for 5 more days before suffering a disappointing season ending loss. The extra two days of advancing to the Elite 8 doesn’t get me there either.
When I look back at the 2023 season I’ll remember some great moments, including several games that I was able to attend in person. They include:
1. The early season 1 point win at Villanova. A loss there would have made MU 2-2 in the BE and the loss at Xavier would have put them at 4-3 in the conference and 3 games out of first place. The 5 game winning streak that followed might have sparked hooes, but the loss at UConn would have put MU in a much tougher position going into the home stretch.
2. Take away OMax’s last second put back, and one of the most thrilling wins of the season would instead have been a demoralizing defeat that all but eliminated them from title contention.
3. A loss at Creighton would have been another disappointing result instead of a second straight great win that put MU in the driver’s seat for the title. The last 3 games would have been pretty anticlimactic instead of 3 games that in succession clinched a tie for the title, clinched the outright title, and allowed the team to cut down the nets and celebrate the tilte in front of the home fans.
4. The BET tournament wins over UConn and Xavier were two of the more memorable moments in recent MU history.
Some people would apparently trade all of those moments for a few extra days of being alive in the NCAA tournament before having the season come to a disappointing end. I wouldn’t. Maybe doing those things a second time will be less enjoyable unless they are followed by a longer run in the NCAA tournament. But, I think it would take awhile before regular season and BET titles get to be old hat.
well stated, great memories from this season!!!
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I chose this hypothetical because it is basically Creighton’s season without the “crapshoot” bonus they got by facing a 15 seed in the third round instead of a 2 seed.
I’ve heard many people here say they would rather have the Sweet 16, but when I think of the some of the fun moments of the last season, Imwoukdnt want to trade them for being alive in the NCAA tournament for 5 more days before suffering a disappointing season ending loss. The extra two days of advancing to the Elite 8 doesn’t get me there either.
When I look back at the 2023 season I’ll remember some great moments, including several games that I was able to attend in person. They include:
1. The early season 1 point win at Villanova. A loss there would have made MU 2-2 in the BE and the loss at Xavier would have put them at 4-3 in the conference and 3 games out of first place. The 5 game winning streak that followed might have sparked hooes, but the loss at UConn would have put MU in a much tougher position going into the home stretch.
2. Take away OMax’s last second put back, and one of the most thrilling wins of the season would instead have been a demoralizing defeat that all but eliminated them from title contention.
3. A loss at Creighton would have been another disappointing result instead of a second straight great win that put MU in the driver’s seat for the title. The last 3 games would have been pretty anticlimactic instead of 3 games that in succession clinched a tie for the title, clinched the outright title, and allowed the team to cut down the nets and celebrate the tilte in front of the home fans.
4. The BET tournament wins over UConn and Xavier were two of the more memorable moments in recent MU history.
Some people would apparently trade all of those moments for a few extra days of being alive in the NCAA tournament before having the season come to a disappointing end. I wouldn’t. Maybe doing those things a second time will be less enjoyable unless they are followed by a longer run in the NCAA tournament. But, I think it would take awhile before regular season and BET titles get to be old hat.
Well said. I wouldn't trade this season. Too many awesome moments, too many "is this real" type pinch yourself moments. This team was awesome, this season was awesome, this is why we watch the sport.
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Win it all. Period.
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The last time MU was Way Too Early number 2 the Hausers left like 3 days later. Given that Shaka told us only most of our minute getters will be back, I’d expect to hear Oso and OMax are gone on Monday.
That’s why is so great that no one can be described at Markus. Tyler likes to and knows how to pass.
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Anything less than a national championship on the back of an aircraft carrier next year, and Shaka gets a nickname from me that he won’t like
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Anything less than a national championship on the back of an aircraft carrier next year, and Shaka gets a nickname from me that he won’t like
You are merciless! Shaka is shaking in fear.
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You are merciless! Shaka is shaking in fear.
I’ve been workshopping some names but I’m not ready to share them (Shaka Can’t 🤔). If he doesn’t get an aircraft carrier in the portal, I’ll ramp up my efforts
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I’ve been workshopping some names but I’m not ready to share them (Shaka Can’t 🤔). If he doesn’t get an aircraft carrier in the portal, I’ll ramp up my efforts
OK. But you and I are good, right Rico?
Right, Rico?
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I’ve been workshopping some names but I’m not ready to share them (Shaka Can’t 🤔). If he doesn’t get an aircraft carrier in the portal, I’ll ramp up my efforts
I legit was imagining a game on an aircraft carrier and Shaka wiping the floor.
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That’s why is so great that no one can be described at Markus. Tyler likes to and knows how to pass.
Markus steal your girlfriend?
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OK. But you and I are good, right Rico?
Right, Rico?
Not if you don’t help get an aircraft carrier
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Not if you don’t help get an aircraft carrier
I'm on it. Getting one, not actually on one.
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Anything less than a national championship on the back of an aircraft carrier next year, and Shaka gets a nickname from me that he won’t like
Spit out my coffee. That is really funny. You are merciless.
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Folks, I agree that the Final Four is well worth celebrating.
bilsu, a Moser guy, said: " ... in the end it does not matter much, if you lose in before the final four."
So I just wondered why he thought even the Final Four mattered if you don't win the title.
You get a lot of recognition, if you make the final four.
How many teams who lost in last year's Elite 8 do you remember?
How many teams can you remember the year before last year?
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You get a lot of recognition, if you make the final four.
How many teams who lost in last year's Elite 8 do you remember?
How many teams can you remember the year before last year?
Many of us here cant remember what we had for breakfast
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Many of us here cant remember what we had for breakfast
I can remember my last four meals but nothing from 5-8 meals ago.
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Many of us here cant remember what we had for breakfast
I can't remember that I can't remember.
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The Sporting News per Mike DeCourcy has identified 3 consistent characteristics of Final 4 teams over the past 30 years:
1. A first round NBA draft pick
2. A center taller than 6’7” (Michigan State ‘79 is the last champ with a 6’7” center.)
3. Finishing in the top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. (This stat has only existed for the past 20 years.).
We may have guys that make the jump into 1st round territory next year; offense was already top-10 ranked, but defense needs to jump significantly (they were in 40s).
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The Sporting News per Mike DeCourcy has identified 3 consistent characteristics of Final 4 teams over the past 30 years:
1. A first round NBA draft pick
2. A center taller than 6’7” (Michigan State ‘79 is the last champ with a 6’7” center.)
3. Finishing in the top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. (This stat has only existed for the past 20 years.).
We may have guys that make the jump into 1st round territory next year; offense was already top-10 ranked, but defense needs to jump significantly (they were in 40s).
Good thing Marquette has Ben Gold
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The last time MU was Way Too Early number 2 the Hausers left like 3 days later. Given that Shaka told us only most of our minute getters will be back, I’d expect to hear Oso and OMax are gone on Monday.
Is today the day?
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The Sporting News per Mike DeCourcy has identified 3 consistent characteristics of Final 4 teams over the past 30 years:
1. A first round NBA draft pick
2. A center taller than 6’7” (Michigan State ‘79 is the last champ with a 6’7” center.)
3. Finishing in the top 20 in both offensive and defensive efficiency. (This stat has only existed for the past 20 years.).
We may have guys that make the jump into 1st round territory next year; offense was already top-10 ranked, but defense needs to jump significantly (they were in 40s).
1 chicken or egg
2 6’7”? Ok. Yeah, and a pG talker than 4’11”
3 can calculate further back than 20 years
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First year since 1979 ,no.MCD all americans in the final.four, and 3 of the 4 teams have no top 50 recruits.
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Is today the day?
Ososhima?
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Going back to my hypothetical of MU finishing 14-6 in the Big East, losing in the BET semi finals, and losing in the Sweet 16 round, I think expectations for next season would be a little lower than they are now. I don’t think MU would be rated number one or two in all of the Way Too Early top 25s in that scenario.
By showing that they were capable of winning the conference outright and winning the BET, including 2 wins over UConn., MU has established that their current roster of players is capable of winning at the highest levels.
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Watched the banquet and was really happy to see Stevie and OMax get recognized with a bunch of awards from the coaches.
OMax getting left off the All Conference Teams and All Tournament Team was BS. He's so dang good and deserved more recognition.
Shaka and Tyler both hinted that this year was great but they are chasing something much bigger.
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Watched the banquet and was really happy to see Stevie and OMax get recognized with a bunch of awards from the coaches.
OMax getting left off the All Conference Teams and All Tournament Team was BS. He's so dang good and deserved more recognition.
Shaka and Tyler both hinted that this year was great but they are chasing something much bigger.
When was the banquet? Do you have a link to what you’re talking about
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When was the banquet? Do you have a link to what you’re talking about
It is showing that the video is locked, but it worked for me. I watched last night.
https://www.youtube.com/live/HnoCGxc_XqE?feature=share
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Lunardi's '24 Bracketology. A tad early, but we are a 1 seed in the Midwest (Indianapolis):
https://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/bracketology/ncaa-bracketology-2024-march-madness-men-field-predictions
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It is showing that the video is locked, but it worked for me. I watched last night.
https://www.youtube.com/live/HnoCGxc_XqE?feature=share
I could not get it to work.
There were two questions from swoopem. The first one was when was the banquet.
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I could not get it to work.
There were two questions from swoopem. The first one was when was the banquet.
I assume it was last night, but cannot confirm. Last night is when I discovered the link and I watched the ceremonies then.
The link shows that it is locked but when I click it I am able to watch the whole ceremony. No idea how or why it worked for me 🤷♂️
https://www.youtube.com/live/HnoCGxc_XqE?feature=share
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With OMax’s departure, Lunardi dropped us to first four out
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With OMax’s departure, Lunardi dropped us to first four out
From a 1 to not making thr tournament? That's a bit dramatic.
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From a 1 to not making thr tournament? That's a bit dramatic.
NIT is not so bad...
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From a 1 to not making thr tournament? That's a bit dramatic.
Hook, line, and sinker.
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I assume it was last night, but cannot confirm. Last night is when I discovered the link and I watched the ceremonies then.
The link shows that it is locked but when I click it I am able to watch the whole ceremony. No idea how or why it worked for me 🤷♂️
https://www.youtube.com/live/HnoCGxc_XqE?feature=share
thanks for posting that, link worked fine for me
loved Shaka pimping Tylerkolek.com
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thanks for posting that, link worked fine for me
loved Shaka pimping Tylerkolek.com
Loved that Shaka stole a giveaway towel from a seat at the Creighton game to use as motivation.
Someone went home without a Creighton rally towel because it was in the Marquette locker room.
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Saw an older gentleman in the Atlanta Airport proudly wearing an MU quarter zip ,as I was going to the train to the C gates . I reached out to him and commented on our great season. He said back to me emphatically “ we are going to be even better next year ….”
So there you have it? the public at large is pumped .
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Saw an older gentleman in the Atlanta Airport proudly wearing an MU quarter zip ,as I was going to the train to the C gates . I reached out to him and commented on our great season. He said back to me emphatically “ we are going to be even better next year ….”
So there you have it? the public at large is pumped .
I saw a guy in a Marquette Warriors shirt at Walmart in Franklin and he said Shaka is on the hot seat
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Justin made a huge jump Shaka's first season, and Kam made a bigger contribution as a freshman than we would've expected. Kam, Kolek, OMax, and Oso all made huge jumps Shaka's second season, and Chase made a bigger contribution than we would've expected. IF OMax were to return, who's the player that could make a big jump in Shaka's third season? And what freshman could outperform expectations in his first year?
If we have (at least) one player make a big jump next season and we have (at least) one freshman contribute more than expected, it will be an even more special season than this past one.
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Justin made a huge jump Shaka's first season, and Kam made a bigger contribution as a freshman than we would've expected. Kam, Kolek, OMax, and Oso all made huge jumps Shaka's second season, and Chase made a bigger contribution than we would've expected. IF OMax were to return, who's the player that could make a big jump in Shaka's third season? And what freshman could outperform expectations in his first year?
If we have (at least) one player make a big jump next season and we have (at least) one freshman contribute more than expected, it will be an even more special season than this past one.
I think Chase and Ben could move into starting roles if not for the players in front of them.
I think Lowery can give a lot of good minutes
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The team will lose 3-4 players this summer.
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The team will lose 3-4 players this summer.
Including Zach Wrightsil, Michael Kennedy, Emarion Ellis, & Keeyan Itejere, this is correct.
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The team will lose 3-4 players this summer.
Too bad we can’t lose 3-4 posters like this this summer.
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We already know
Kolek
Jones
Mitchell
OMax
Oso
is good enough to win the Big East.
Looking at the backup unit...how many games do you think they'd win in the Big East?
Jones
Norman
Ross
Joplin
Gold
---
Lowery
Amadou
Could they finish better than 11th in the Conference?
Would they win more than Georgetown did last year?
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The Bi* East is going to be brutal next year even for the starting lineup. It will be the BEast.
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The Bi* East is going to be brutal next year even for the starting lineup. It will be the BEast.
I keep hearing this, but looking team by team, I'm really not sure. Last year, Butler, DePaul, and Georgetown were the clear bottom. Based on roster changes, maybe Georgetown moves up a little, but I see no reason to think Butler and DePaul aren't worse, or that St. John's and Seton Hall aren't poised to drop right down with them.
At the top, Creighton is probably about the same, UConn will be worse unless they get at least Jackson back (seems unlikely). Xavier almost certainly worse with all they lost, Villanova a bit better, but they did lose a lot and need a healthy Justin Moore. Which leaves Providence, who is probably the same talent-wise, but far worse on the bench.
I keep hearing how this will be the best league next year, but it looks worse than last year.
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I keep hearing this, but looking team by team, I'm really not sure. Last year, Butler, DePaul, and Georgetown were the clear bottom. Based on roster changes, maybe Georgetown moves up a little, but I see no reason to think Butler and DePaul aren't worse, or that St. John's and Seton Hall aren't poised to drop right down with them.
At the top, Creighton is probably about the same, UConn will be worse unless they get at least Jackson back (seems unlikely). Xavier almost certainly worse with all they lost, Villanova a bit better, but they did lose a lot and need a healthy Justin Moore. Which leaves Providence, who is probably the same talent-wise, but far worse on the bench.
I keep hearing how this will be the best league next year, but it looks worse than last year.
You must be fun at parties
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You must be fun at parties
get that man a Bud Light
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You must be fun at parties
Only at Marquette parties, because I think our returning players and developing freshmen will be better. The rest of the league can suck eggs.
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get that man a Bud Light
Seems like “they” already had a few aina
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get that man a Bud Light
How many times are you going to bring up this “joke” before you realize it falls flat…as a Bud Light.
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I keep hearing this, but looking team by team, I'm really not sure. Last year, Butler, DePaul, and Georgetown were the clear bottom. Based on roster changes, maybe Georgetown moves up a little, but I see no reason to think Butler and DePaul aren't worse, or that St. John's and Seton Hall aren't poised to drop right down with them.
At the top, Creighton is probably about the same, UConn will be worse unless they get at least Jackson back (seems unlikely). Xavier almost certainly worse with all they lost, Villanova a bit better, but they did lose a lot and need a healthy Justin Moore. Which leaves Providence, who is probably the same talent-wise, but far worse on the bench.
I keep hearing how this will be the best league next year, but it looks worse than last year.
This is the type of logic that drove a lot of those 9th-place predictions for MU last season.
There are two things that we should have taken from the first couple of seasons in the insta-transfer era:
1. You can't conclude a team will be worse simply because players leave. MU lost Lewis, Morsell, Kuath, and Elliot. We got better.
Similarly, I think it's wrong to conclude that UConn will be worse just because they have some players leave. Arguably on paper UConn has far more left on their bench going into next season than what we had heading into 2022-23.
2. You can't conclude that incoming transfers that were either little used or coming from lower-level programs won't be significantly better when exposed to Big East-level facilities, coaching, training, and teammates. Tristan Newton (AAC), Tyler Kolek (A10), Noah Horchler (A-Sun), Souley Boum (C-USA), Baylor Scheierman (Summit), Joel Soriano (A-10), Ryan Hawkins (D-2) and Joey Calcaterra (WCC) have come into the Big East over the last several years and all significantly outperformed what might have been expected based on playing previously at a lower level.
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I keep hearing this, but looking team by team, I'm really not sure. Last year, Butler, DePaul, and Georgetown were the clear bottom. Based on roster changes, maybe Georgetown moves up a little, but I see no reason to think Butler and DePaul aren't worse, or that St. John's and Seton Hall aren't poised to drop right down with them.
At the top, Creighton is probably about the same, UConn will be worse unless they get at least Jackson back (seems unlikely). Xavier almost certainly worse with all they lost, Villanova a bit better, but they did lose a lot and need a healthy Justin Moore. Which leaves Providence, who is probably the same talent-wise, but far worse on the bench.
I keep hearing how this will be the best league next year, but it looks worse than last year.
Another COLE dimension - every other BEast team gets better and Marquette gets worse. Every year.
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I keep hearing this, but looking team by team, I'm really not sure. Last year, Butler, DePaul, and Georgetown were the clear bottom. Based on roster changes, maybe Georgetown moves up a little, but I see no reason to think Butler and DePaul aren't worse, or that St. John's and Seton Hall aren't poised to drop right down with them.
At the top, Creighton is probably about the same, UConn will be worse unless they get at least Jackson back (seems unlikely). Xavier almost certainly worse with all they lost, Villanova a bit better, but they did lose a lot and need a healthy Justin Moore. Which leaves Providence, who is probably the same talent-wise, but far worse on the bench.
I keep hearing how this will be the best league next year, but it looks worse than last year.
Good post.
That said, hard to say if UConn will be better or worse in any case because
1- they will almost certainly be better in conference than this past season.
2- they will almost certainly be worse outside of it.
Unless they win another natty, which they won’t, they will have an overall “worse” season but almost certainly a better BE conf season.
I’d be pretty surprised if they ended up with a worse conference record even if Jackson leaves.
As equalizer noted, their guys that will step up and step in are very good.
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This is the type of logic that drove a lot of those 9th-place predictions for MU last season.
There are two things that we should have taken from the first couple of seasons in the insta-transfer era:
1. You can't conclude a team will be worse simply because players leave. MU lost Lewis, Morsell, Kuath, and Elliot. We got better.
Similarly, I think it's wrong to conclude that UConn will be worse just because they have some players leave. Arguably on paper UConn has far more left on their bench going into next season than what we had heading into 2022-23.
2. You can't conclude that incoming transfers that were either little used or coming from lower-level programs won't be significantly better when exposed to Big East-level facilities, coaching, training, and teammates. Tristan Newton (AAC), Tyler Kolek (A10), Noah Horchler (A-Sun), Souley Boum (C-USA), Baylor Scheierman (Summit), Joel Soriano (A-10), Ryan Hawkins (D-2) and Joey Calcaterra (WCC) have come into the Big East over the last several years and all significantly outperformed what might have been expected based on playing previously at a lower level.
Excellent.
One could say that recruiting, the transfer portal, and pre-season expectations are a total crapshoot.
Marquette went from being a squad with a new coach that brought in a bunch of no name guys that overachieved, to losing its 2/3 best overall players according to some (admittedly not advance metrics or efficiency best players), to being predicted 9th in conference with those returning players that everyone had seen for a full season with a solo addition that didn’t contribute due to injury, to a prognosticated top 5 team next season.
During this entire time, a full offseason and another half offseason, Marquette has added 1 player in the portal.
Most other teams have added/subtracted much much more.
Kentucky has 3 top 5 recruits in this upcoming class.
Arkansas has the best transfer portal in the history of transfer portals with not much to show for it.
Rick Pitino has like 4 guys on scholarship.
I don’t even know what I’m saying anymore, but crapshoot
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I keep hearing this, but looking team by team, I'm really not sure. Last year, Butler, DePaul, and Georgetown were the clear bottom. Based on roster changes, maybe Georgetown moves up a little, but I see no reason to think Butler and DePaul aren't worse, or that St. John's and Seton Hall aren't poised to drop right down with them.
At the top, Creighton is probably about the same, UConn will be worse unless they get at least Jackson back (seems unlikely). Xavier almost certainly worse with all they lost, Villanova a bit better, but they did lose a lot and need a healthy Justin Moore. Which leaves Providence, who is probably the same talent-wise, but far worse on the bench.
I keep hearing how this will be the best league next year, but it looks worse than last year.
I agree.
Big East Rankings (so far)
Tier 1
Marquette and Creighton (they will have shockingly similar team efficiencies.) Both are between 5 and 15
UConn (Has a high ceiling and a very low floor, they will start multiple freshmen) (From like 2- 28)
( I edited this because I left Newton off of Uconn's roster like a genius.)
Tier 2
Villanova (from 10-40)
Providence (lower ceiling than UConn, similar floor (15-60)
Tier 3
St. Johns (30- 95)
Depaul (50-110)
Tier 4
Seton Hall (75-130) they somehow have less talent than Depaul when you look at it. It is just Richmond.
Tier 5
Georgetown (80-170)
Butler (80-200)
I expect Uconn, St. Johns, and Hall to keep adding. But we'll see.
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Jfp61 you are a great poster and I really appreciate all your data, but there no way that
1- Nova is a better team than UConn
2- DePaul is a better team than SH
#1 should be self explanatory. Don’t care who is back and who moves where in the portal, haven’t even paid that close attention because coach Shaka has kinda made the portal mute for me, but there is no chance Villanova is better than UConn.
#2 is I guess debatable but coach Shaheen has has an elite defensive team both at a lower level and most recently at SH this past season.
I’m much more confident that he builds a defensive juggernaut that can win games than “blue,blue” who hasn’t quite gotten anything together with the Demons.
Best thing about DePaul in recent memory is what Max Strus is doing in the NBA.
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Good post.
That said, hard to say if UConn will be better or worse in any case because
1- they will almost certainly be better in conference than this past season.
2- they will almost certainly be worse outside of it.
Unless they win another natty, which they won’t, they will have an overall “worse” season but almost certainly a better BE conf season.
I’d be pretty surprised if they ended up with a worse conference record even if Jackson leaves.
As equalizer noted, their guys that will step up and step in are very good.
Why is is certain UConn will be better in conference?
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Jfp61 you are a great poster and I really appreciate all your data, but there no way that
1- Nova is a better team than UConn
2- DePaul is a better team than SH
#1 should be self explanatory. Don’t care who is back and who moves where in the portal, haven’t even paid that close attention because coach Shaka has kinda made the portal mute for me, but there is no chance Villanova is better than UConn.
#2 is I guess debatable but coach Shaheen has has an elite defensive team both at a lower level and most recently at SH this past season.
I’m much more confident that he builds a defensive juggernaut that can win games than “blue,blue” who hasn’t quite gotten anything together with the Demons.
Best thing about DePaul in recent memory is what Max Strus is doing in the NBA.
1. I screwed up on UConn and Left Newton off the roster. UCONN is (3-29) ahead of Nova. In the Tier 1 with the High Ceiling and the lowest floor.
2. Depaul is a better roster than Seton Hall today... And until Shaheen lands someone halfway decent, he might not be able to get guys.
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St. John’s will be a top 5-6 team. That’s a no brainer.
Most likely Cooley will have a bye til the quarterfinals.
Don’t underestimate those MFers.
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Why is is certain UConn will be better in conference?
Just because they underachieved their abilities in conference, by a lot.
I wouldn’t say it’s certain, but I’d definitely wager they have a better conference season in 23/24.
In the same token, I wouldn’t say it’s certain, but I’d probably wager that Marquette would have a worse conference season in 23/24.
If OMax returns or if a big splash comes thru the portal id reconsider, but chances are that it’s very hard to repeat that feat
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How many times are you going to bring up this “joke” before you realize it falls flat…as a Bud Light.
chill bro, maybe kick back with a …Bu…beer or two. 😉
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UConn has the nation’s 3rd best class coming in. I don’t know how it gets put together on the court but the machine has been restarted in Storrs. Dismiss them at your peril
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Just because they underachieved their abilities in conference, by a lot.
I wouldn’t say it’s certain, but I’d definitely wager they have a better conference season in 23/24.
In the same token, I wouldn’t say it’s certain, but I’d probably wager that Marquette would have a worse conference season in 23/24.
If OMax returns or if a big splash comes thru the portal id reconsider, but chances are that it’s very hard to repeat that feat
100%. With or w/o OMax I’d project MU to have a worse Conf showing this year. And UCONN to improve upon their prior year mark.
All about the comps
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If Omax is back or a replacement is landed I think MU will be a better team next year, but do not think they will come close to matching the W-L record. 17-3 might not happen again for quite some time by MU or anyone in the BE.
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If Omax is back or a replacement is landed I think MU will be a better team next year, but do not think they will come close to matching the W-L record. 17-3 might not happen again for quite some time by MU or anyone in the BE.
This is pretty much where I am Goose, with the exception that I think Marquette will be better regardless of "if Omax is back or a replacement landed" I'm basing that mostly on the experience of returnees (and their working with the staff preseason) and our promising freshmen. Shaka can find a way to take care of the probable loss of Omax by restructuring the team somewhat. Add it all up and I think we are a better team. Add in Omax returning and watch out!
Agree completely about our 17-3 record. It was a lot of fun, but we do not need to repeat and have it as a benchmark.
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UConn has the nation’s 3rd best class coming in. I don’t know how it gets put together on the court but the machine has been restarted in Storrs. Dismiss them at your peril
Today's paper has Danny Hurley saying to have patience and next year's team will shakeout in due time.
UConn is going on a European playing tour this summer also.
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Today's paper has Danny Hurley saying to have patience and next year's team will shakeout in due time.
UConn is going on a European playing tour this summer also.
What coach ever talks up his own team? Before the end of the summer Shaka will likely be telling MU fans to temper expectations given all the coaching upgrades and transfers coming into the league.
Meanwhile, Villanova just landed Maryland's #2 scorer Hakim Hart. If he doesn't push them up into the top Big East tier, they're getting a lot closer.
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What coach ever talks up his own team? Before the end of the summer Shaka will likely be telling MU fans to temper expectations given all the coaching upgrades and transfers coming into the league.
You are right though I did see Bill Self talking up his squad for next year recently:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/bill-self-previews-ku-basketball-120044804.html
Saw it because there's a marquette mention
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What coach ever talks up his own team? Before the end of the summer Shaka will likely be telling MU fans to temper expectations given all the coaching upgrades and transfers coming into the league.
Meanwhile, Villanova just landed Maryland's #2 scorer Hakim Hart. If he doesn't push them up into the top Big East tier, they're getting a lot closer.
We will see which approach will prove to be more successful: just recruiting HS players or getting transfers.
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You are right though I did see Bill Self talking up his squad for next year recently:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/bill-self-previews-ku-basketball-120044804.html
Saw it because there's a marquette mention
You think MU will be ranked #1 in the Maui tournament?
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You think MU will be ranked #1 in the Maui tournament?
TAMU didn't say he did. But Bill Self does.
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TAMU didn't say he did. But Bill Self does.
Do you think MU will be ranked #1 in the Maui tournament? Just asking.
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TAMU didn't say he did. But Bill Self does.
Just another coach lowering expectations for his own team. :)
I doubt MU is listed in the polls as the #1 team heading into Maui. I've already seen Duke and Michigan State get some chatter as a potential #1 in the "way too early" polls (ESPN already moved Duke there), and Duke and MSU are bound to get some reputation votes when the official polls come out in the fall.
And if either KU or UK land Hunter Dickinson, I expect there's a good chance the winner will start the season as #1 and stay there until it loses.
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Do you think MU will be ranked #1 in the Maui tournament? Just asking.
Maybe? Most likely their schedule will be a road Gavitt game and some buy games leading up to Maui.
Depends who the Gavitt team is. Plus, any team can lose to pretty much anyone on the road.
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Just another coach lowering expectations for his own team. :)
I doubt MU is listed in the polls as the #1 team heading into Maui. I've already seen Duke and Michigan State get some chatter as a potential #1 in the "way too early" polls (ESPN already moved Duke there), and Duke and MSU are bound to get some reputation votes when the official polls come out in the fall.
And if either KU or UK land Hunter Dickinson, I expect there's a good chance the winner will start the season as #1 and stay there until it loses.
He said #1 of the teams in Maui, not the country.
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Do you think MU will be ranked #1 in the Maui tournament? Just asking.
If we go into Maui undefeated, I think we'll be the highest ranked team in that field.
Duke is getting #1 buzz, honestly I think they're overrated, but that doesn't make a difference with preseason rankings. They'll play Arizona and Michigan State in the first week of the season. They haven't announced their exempt event yet, but my money's on the Charleston Classic as it's the biggest exempt tourney without an ACC school (and could give them a game with Houston). Charleston is the week before Maui, so there's a decent chance they could take a loss before Maui and give us a shot at #1.
Right now, if O-Max is back, I think we're no worse than #3 overall to start the season.
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If we go into Maui undefeated, I think we'll be the highest ranked team in that field.
Duke is getting #1 buzz, honestly I think they're overrated, but that doesn't make a difference with preseason rankings. They'll play Arizona and Michigan State in the first week of the season. They haven't announced their exempt event yet, but my money's on the Charleston Classic as it's the biggest exempt tourney without an ACC school (and could give them a game with Houston). Charleston is the week before Maui, so there's a decent chance they could take a loss before Maui and give us a shot at #1.
Right now, if O-Max is back, I think we're no worse than #3 overall to start the season.
The Duke hype is primarily based on Filipowski coming back. He’s a good player, but I don’t think he’s a game changer.
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Filipowski just had hip surgery.
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The Duke hype is primarily based on Filipowski coming back. He’s a good player, but I don’t think he’s a game changer.
They return a decent amount and have a good class coming in, but this is the same team that struggled until they settled into ACC play. The ACC wasn't very good, so I'm not sure why so many people think Duke was good because they beat up on ACC competition. Feels like one of those summer traps, overrate the blue bloods because they are shiny not because of their roster substance.
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With 5-star freshmen Ron Holland decommitting, Texas is down to 6 scholarship players (4 returners, 2 transfers, and 0 freshmen) with the possibility that Tyrese Hunter returns from the NBA draft to make it 7. Will be interesting to see what kind of late talent Terry can lock up to fill in that roster. 3 of their current 6 will also be on their COVID years, meaning that he likely can't just load up on 1 year rentals, he also needs to replace his foundation.
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With 5-star freshmen Ron Holland decommitting, Texas is down to 6 scholarship players (4 returners, 2 transfers, and 0 freshmen) with the possibility that Tyrese Hunter returns from the NBA draft to make it 7. Will be interesting to see what kind of late talent Terry can lock up to fill in that roster. 3 of their current 6 will also be on their COVID years, meaning that he likely can't just load up on 1 year rentals, he also needs to replace his foundation.
5 star forward you say eh?
I could think of a top 5 team in America that could use a 1 year Forward.
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5 star forward you say eh?
I could think of a top 5 team in America that could use a 1 year Forward.
Just for the record...I know, it likely won't happen, but between Marquette winning 2 Titles, Possibly being the #1 team in the country next year, Jimmy Butler's domination, and many other things...I'm just going to enjoy being in this position as a program and assume we can get everyone and anyone we want even if it isn't true.
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Just for the record...I know, it likely won't happen, but between Marquette winning 2 Titles, Possibly being the #1 team in the country next year, Jimmy Butler's domination, and many other things...I'm just going to enjoy being in this position as a program and assume we can get everyone and anyone we want even if it isn't true.
Okay.
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Just for the record...I know, it likely won't happen, but between Marquette winning 2 Titles, Possibly being the #1 team in the country next year, Jimmy Butler's domination, and many other things...I'm just going to enjoy being in this position as a program and assume we can get everyone and anyone we want even if it isn't true.
You've come a long way since Georgia Tech by 3.
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You've come a long way since Georgia Tech by 3.
Haven't we all?
They won 29 games and lost 1 rotation guy and maybe not even that.
Even the overly optimistic ones on here got blown out of the water.
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I'm just going to enjoy being in this position as a program and assume we can get everyone and anyone we want even if it isn't true.
I think a lot of fans of the program (and every other program) have always felt like they were in that position.
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Just for the record...I know, it likely won't happen, but between Marquette winning 2 Titles, Possibly being the #1 team in the country next year, Jimmy Butler's domination, and many other things...I'm just going to enjoy being in this position as a program and assume we can get everyone and anyone we want even if it isn't true.
I really hope Shaka decides he’d like Cooper Flagg at MU. If we don’t land him I’ll assume Shaka had no interest.
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You've come a long way since Georgia Tech by 3.
don't overlook the Radford concern...
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don't overlook the Radford concern...
That's just made up.
I was never concerned about that game. I just said it would be close in the score column. And it was for the most part.
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David Joplin posting pictures on IG today from UW-Madison's campus. Who are we going to get to replace him?
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Maybe attending Mifflin street block party. Will alert my kids to be on lookout
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That's just made up.
I was never concerned about that game. I just said it would be close in the score column. And it was for the most part.
They were up over 20 with six minutes to go.
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They were up over 20 with six minutes to go.
Yeah, but just 26 game minutes before that it was tied.
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Yeah, but just 26 game minutes before that it was tied.
They lead by 3 with 12:50 left in the game.
They won the Big East Championship game by more than they beat Radford.
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They lead by 3 with 12:50 left in the game.
They won the Big East Championship game by more than they beat Radford.
Lol then we went on like a 10-0 run.
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Face it, you raised irrational concerns at the time and now trying to justify those concerns months later. It was a sloppy game, but one never in doubt.
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Face it, you raised irrational concerns at the time and now trying to justify those concerns months later. It was a sloppy game, but one never in doubt.
No. I was concerned the team wouldn't end the year in March Madness, but I was not concerned about them losing to Radford.
Simply said the score would be respectably close because Radford had some decent players and 1st games of the season can be that way. Similar to the New Hampshire game in 2021, though it ended up not being as close as that one.
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No. I was concerned the team wouldn't end the year in March Madness, but I was not concerned about them losing to Radford.
Simply said the score would be respectably close because Radford had some decent players and 1st games of the season can be that way. Similar to the New Hampshire game in 2021, though it ended up not being as close as that one.
Nope.
“I don't expect a loss, but wouldn't be surprised by one. This is the type of game like New Hampshire last year where the game will be up for grabs in the last 4 minutes.“
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Nope.
“I don't expect a loss, but wouldn't be surprised by one. This is the type of game like New Hampshire last year where the game will be up for grabs in the last 4 minutes.“
Exactly. I wasn't concerned or expecting a loss, but if they would've, I wouldn't have been surprised.
I was wrong about it being up for grabs in the last 4 minutes, but it was a 1 possession game with 3 media timeouts to go.
Either way. Don't matta.
Side note...I don't think there was one loss all year for Marquette that was a "bad" loss. Not sure many teams can say that about a whole season.
(Maybe UW, but at the time it was fine).
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It appears Andrew Rohde was down to Virginia and Marquette before ultimately deciding on Virginia.
Would have been nice too add him, but it at least shows the staff is looking to add (for those of you worried that they aren't).
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It appears Andrew Rohde was down to Virginia and Marquette before ultimately deciding on Virginia.
Would have been nice too add him, but it at least shows the staff is looking to add (for those of you worried that they aren't).
According to...?
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Published in the Minneapolis paper today.
https://twitter.com/itsallstraw/status/1652689963358486530?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw
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Published in the Minneapolis paper today.
https://twitter.com/itsallstraw/status/1652689963358486530?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw
Another silent verbal that got away from Greg Gurd
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Published in the Minneapolis paper today.
https://twitter.com/itsallstraw/status/1652689963358486530?s=46&t=y09G3XF0pbaZZc_-K-dYSw
That’s not the Minneapolis paper, and the author frequently gets sh1t wrong. I would not take that blurb to mean anything factual, other than he’s planning to head to Virginia.
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Here's the news: If OMax returns Marquette will be in prime position for what I would call Full Medieval for 2023-24. What that essentially means is a level of dominance we haven't seen for close to 50 yrs. I think people are missing what some of our young guns will bring to the table and the motivation level of all of our returning starters. If OMax leaves we will still be in excellent shape and our younger players will get more opportunities.
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Here's the news: If OMax returns Marquette will be in prime position for what I would call Full Medieval for 2023-24. What that essentially means is a level of dominance we haven't seen for close to 50 yrs. I think people are missing what some of our young guns will bring to the table and the motivation level of all of our returning starters. If OMax leaves we will still be in excellent shape and our younger players will get more opportunities.
Gee I’ve never known Muggsy to get overly excited about anything.
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Here's the news: If OMax returns Marquette will be in prime position for what I would call Full Medieval for 2023-24. What that essentially means is a level of dominance we haven't seen for close to 50 yrs. I think people are missing what some of our young guns will bring to the table and the motivation level of all of our returning starters. If OMax leaves we will still be in excellent shape and our younger players will get more opportunities.
I'm guessing the bolded = partial medieval.
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I'm guessing the bolded = partial medieval.
I think the Renaissance came after the Medieval. Some decent weapons, but mostly ceremonial.
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Here's the news: If OMax returns Marquette will be in prime position for what I would call Full Medieval for 2023-24. What that essentially means is a level of dominance we haven't seen for close to 50 yrs. I think people are missing what some of our young guns will bring to the table and the motivation level of all of our returning starters. If OMax leaves we will still be in excellent shape and our younger players will get more opportunities.
Sounds like someone's working with more than a half stock(ades).
help.
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Here's the news: If OMax returns Marquette will be in prime position for what I would call Full Medieval for 2023-24. What that essentially means is a level of dominance we haven't seen for close to 50 yrs. I think people are missing what some of our young guns will bring to the table and the motivation level of all of our returning starters. If OMax leaves we will still be in excellent shape and our younger players will get more opportunities.
OMax up to 37 on Sam Vecenie's Board.
Nearing 1st Round territory.
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I think the Renaissance came after the Medieval. Some decent weapons, but mostly ceremonial.
True. Circa 1400-1600+.
"Go Full Medieval" is a very strange phrase. And how does it relate to a level of dominance?
I think those here who are calling for a transfer to replace Omax if he leaves vs. those who think Shaka will rely upon current players to fill the hole left with an Omax departure are basing their opinions on two premises:
A) Omax's defensive skills cannot be replaced by two or three players. There needs to be one, a high-level transfer. This is logical and conventional bball in today's immediate transfer market.
B) Shaka is unconventional and will not bring in a starter. He's a strict systems/culture guy and will adjust with his current returning players.
I'm in camp B.
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OMax up to 37 on Sam Vecenie's Board.
Nearing 1st Round territory.
He’s not going to be back. Opportunities abound for players on the roster
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OMax up to 37 on Sam Vecenie's Board.
Nearing 1st Round territory.
Selfishly, I'd love to have OMax back, but whatever happens I hope he finds his way to the NBA. But, doing a little quick google research, it looks like this is definitely an outlier, right? I didn't see any other mock drafts that mentioned him...even in the "others" type categories. Are other people projecting him into their mock drafts?
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I would be very surprised if Omax is not drafted and more surprised if he was not on an NBA roster opening night next season.
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Selfishly, I'd love to have OMax back, but whatever happens I hope he finds his way to the NBA. But, doing a little quick google research, it looks like this is definitely an outlier, right? I didn't see any other mock drafts that mentioned him...even in the "others" type categories. Are other people projecting him into their mock drafts?
I guess you can say it is an outlier but Vecenie is pretty good at this.
OMax is gone and he deserves it.
Joplin time!
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Kinda wonder if Wrightsil will then be back since he hasn't found a landing spot yet.
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I guess you can say it is an outlier but Vecenie is pretty good at this.
OMax is gone and he deserves it.
Joplin time!
OMax is gone, Chucky is gone from UW, Moore is gone from Nova to play with Dickenson at Maryland, we have 0 chance to beat UCONN, etc.
Maybe just let the process play out a bit before making definitive statements on things.
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Kinda wonder if Wrightsil will then be back since he hasn't found a landing spot yet.
Based on Shaka's approach this would seem to make the most sense. And if Wrightsil is healthy and can help provide depth, and some additional rebounding and defense I'm all for it.
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Agreed because I am not confident in either Joplin or Gold defensively.
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I am fine with whomever Shaka decides to take Omax's spot, but I think it needs to be filled. I agree with Sultan on the defensive front with Joplin and Gold.
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Agreed because I am not confident in either Joplin or Gold defensively.
Yep. If they want to switch everything that's gonna put those two in a tough spot. Just not quick enough laterally to stay in front.
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Yep. If they want to switch everything that's gonna put those two in a tough spot. Just not quick enough laterally to stay in front.
Yet. We all learned last summer that the staff works hard on development. I look forward to seeing Joplin's and Gold's development.
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OMax is gone, Chucky is gone from UW, Moore is gone from Nova to play with Dickenson at Maryland, we have 0 chance to beat UCONN, etc.
Maybe just let the process play out a bit before making definitive statements on things.
What do you mean we have zero chance to beat UCONN? This is utter nonsense.
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Alright since everyone assumes OMax is gone where are we on a hammer transfer that can defend multiple positions?
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I guess you can say it is an outlier but Vecenie is pretty good at this.
OMax is gone and he deserves it.
Joplin time!
I'm hoping Ben Gold time. WAY higher ceiling.
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What do you mean we have zero chance to beat UCONN? This is utter nonsense.
Bias is pointing out that GE03 has a tendency to make extreme and premature predictions.
OMax may be gone, OMax may stay. I don't know, and I doubt anyone here does either.
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Yet. We all learned last summer that the staff works hard on development. I look forward to seeing Joplin's and Gold's development.
This is what I have been thinking also. Based upon last year's development by the staff, I think there will be noticeable improvement. As I said in an earlier post (in different words), the "replace Omax with a high-level transfer" is the way to go....if your coach is not Shaka. No way can Omax's likely departure can be casually blown off as no big deal. It IS a big deal. Let's hope that the off-season skill development is another very pleasant surprise come November. I think it will be.
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It is. A year ago Justin's departure was a big deal. Shortly thereafter I jumped on or started (cannot remember if Goose or I said it first and it really doesn't matter) the OMax to the NBA train.
So, if he goes, MU will be out an NBA talent. That always hurts a little. And I will worry about depth up front. But there is a lot of talent returning.
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Alright since everyone assumes OMax is gone where are we on a hammer transfer that can defend multiple positions?
Do you listen to Shaka at all? Not happening. He's riding with his guys.
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Do you listen to Shaka at all? Not happening. He's riding with his guys.
It could happen, that staff has tried quietly. I don't think it will happen. We offered some transfers a chance to make the rotation, we just don't offer starting spots like everyone else. Especially with guys like Ross, Joplin, and Gold being ready to make jumps.
All of the guys they talked to 1. would not upset the team chemistry, and 2. actually actually improve the team.
I know they talked to these 4 guys.
Andrew Rohde, Now a UVA starter. (former teammate of Joplins, and talked to him right before he went to St. Thomas too)
Tyrese Samuel, Now a Florida 6th man/starter who gets to play the 4. (know big east player from Montreal, Canada, like OMAX)
Jahmyl Telfort, now one of Butlers best players. (also from Montreal, Canada, like OMAX and knows him well)
Aly Khalifa, now a focal point for BYU. (pass first big from the NBA Academy in Australia like Ben Gold)
None of them were needs. They just would have fit whats already here and would have not needed minutes, but could play minutes if they had too.
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I guess you can say it is an outlier but Vecenie is pretty good at this.
For the record, there was a question mark at the end of my outlier comment. I don't really follow the mock drafts very closely at all -- don't even know who Vecenie is or how good or bad he is at such projections. But I did not find even one other mock draft that mentioned OMax. So, I was sincerely asking if others are projecting him to get drafted.
This isn't intended as a slight to OMax. I think he's great and would be surprised if he returned. But my original question remains: is there anyone else who is projecting OMax in mock drafts, much less "nearing 1st round territory"?
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What do you mean we have zero chance to beat UCONN? This is utter nonsense.
Oh, Muggsy. It must be difficult going through life so confused...with no ability to recognize sarcasm or context clues.
I'm sure there's a "things always go over your head" joke in there...but I'm not going to take that low-hanging fruit. I'll leave that for you. ;)
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I know they talked to these 4 guys.
Andrew Rohde, Now a UVA starter.
Source??
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would have not needed minutes, but could play minutes if they had too.
Seems like an odd claim since they all went places where they would get guaranteed minutes.
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I'm grateful for the Big East title & Big East Conference Champ this past season. Made the pain of a second-round NCAA exit more bearable than it would have been otherwise.
That said, this next season is ALL about the NCAAs for me. Whether we finish 1-5 in the Big East really makes no difference to me, or an early Conference Tournament exit, if we hit at least the S16.
That's what I would consider a successful season - a journey that takes us to the S16. Fall short, and it will have been a fun ride, but ultimately the season will have been a failure (even if Giannis wouldn't say so).
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It could happen, that staff has tried quietly. I don't think it will happen. We offered some transfers a chance to make the rotation, we just don't offer starting spots like everyone else. Especially with guys like Ross, Joplin, and Gold being ready to make jumps.
All of the guys they talked to 1. would not upset the team chemistry, and 2. actually actually improve the team.
I know they talked to these 4 guys.
Andrew Rohde, Now a UVA starter. (former teammate of Joplins, and talked to him right before he went to St. Thomas too)
Tyrese Samuel, Now a Florida 6th man/starter who gets to play the 4. (know big east player from Montreal, Canada, like OMAX)
Jahmyl Telfort, now one of Butlers best players. (also from Montreal, Canada, like OMAX and knows him well)
Aly Khalifa, now a focal point for BYU. (pass first big from the NBA Academy in Australia like Ben Gold)
None of them were needs. They just would have fit whats already here and would have not needed minutes, but could play minutes if they had too.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/6UFgdU9hirj1pAOJyN/giphy.gif)
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Source??
https://news.yahoo.com/charley-walters-way-too-early-213400565.html
Original source is a news paper in St. Paul Minnesota.
But also... local coaches was how i heard about MU liking him. They liked him before he even went to St. Thomas.
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Seems like an odd claim since they all went places where they would get guaranteed minutes.
I shouldn't as "guaranteed", I am not privy to peoples exact pitches, but they were clearly more available than they would be at Marquette.
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https://news.yahoo.com/charley-walters-way-too-early-213400565.html
Original source is a news paper in St. Paul Minnesota.
But also... local coaches was how i heard about MU liking him. They liked him before he even went to St. Thomas.
Yeah, that guy is a dingbat. I did not read that to mean he knew MU was interested, rather an assumption from a guy that doesn’t know jack about CBB. Can’t trust that guy’s little blurbs
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Yeah, that guy is a dingbat. I did not read that to mean he knew MU was interested, rather an assumption from a guy that doesn’t know jack about CBB. Can’t trust that guy’s little blurbs
I would agree with you normally. His local coaches seemed to think MU was involved. I heard his top 4 was Creighton, Virginia, Gonzaga, and Marquette.
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Yet. We all learned last summer that the staff works hard on development. I look forward to seeing Joplin's and Gold's development.
Jop looks leaner already. I think he's gonna make a big jump
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they all went places where they would get guaranteed minutes.
Was going to post on this last week. Agree with this and that Andrew should be a starter at Virginia. Am friends with the Parents and communicated with them recently but not about basketball. Mr Kevin Rhode Andrew’s Dad was the UW kicker, not that, that mattered much. Jop played with Andrew in HS. It is my take Andrew was genuinely very interested in Marquette and so were his parents. BUT Marquette is loaded talent wise more than even Virginia. Andrew probably starts at Virginia and more Virginia minutes are available am guessing. Congratulated them and am happy for them.
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Jop looks leaner already. I think he's gonna make a big jump
Double entendre?
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Jop looks leaner already. I think he's gonna make a big jump
His frame looks like he could put on a bunch of muscle.
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Jop looks leaner already. I think he's gonna make a big jump
Agree. The defense won’t be as good but Shaka’s prediction that he could lead the conference in scoring might just happen this year. Will be fun to watch the three point shooting fire works and some YMCA bully ball moves in the post.
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Agree. The defense won’t be as good but Shaka’s prediction that he could lead the conference in scoring might just happen this year. Will be fun to watch the three point shooting fire works and some YMCA bully ball moves in the post.
If Jop ended up with starter minutes, that could be the case. I was really impressed with his defensive activity as the year went on. I think the majority was simply having far more active hands by the end of the year, which was evident in his higher steal rate (2.5%) in conference play than overall (1.9%). If he can translate that improvement to his man-to-man defense, he could be a positive defensive player.
Though for now, all of my expectations for next year still include O-Max. Just not enough indication that he'll be drafted yet for me to think he's gone.
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Though for now, all of my expectations for next year still include O-Max. Just not enough indication that he'll be drafted yet for me to think he's gone.
Hoping you and TAMU are right!
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Hoping you and TAMU are right!
I'm decidedly in the 50 50 camp
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I'm decidedly in the 50 50 camp
You in charge of toasting marshmallows?
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I'm decidedly in the 50 50 camp
Here as well. Who knows what the heck Omax is thinking and how his thoughts are influenced by family, friends, his agency, etc. I suspect a lot will depend on whether he gets an invite to the NBA combine (as Justin did).If invited, I suspect he is gone.
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Trey Alexander AND Ryan Kalkbrenner back to Creighton.
Terrance Shannon Jr. AND Coleman Hawkins Back to Illinois.
Dillon Mitchell back to Texas.
Zach Edey back to Purdue.
All relevant to Marquette's schedule next season. Going to be a gauntlet. They are going to be well prepared for March.
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Trey Alexander AND Ryan Kalkbrenner back to Creighton.
Terrance Shannon Jr. AND Coleman Hawkins Back to Illinois.
Dillon Mitchell back to Texas.
Zach Edey back to Purdue.
All relevant to Marquette's schedule next season. Going to be a gauntlet. They are going to be well prepared for March.
8 of 9 rotation players back for Marquette, and a couple real good freshmen coming in.
Excited about the battles to come!
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Trey Alexander AND Ryan Kalkbrenner back to Creighton.
Terrance Shannon Jr. AND Coleman Hawkins Back to Illinois.
Dillon Mitchell back to Texas.
Zach Edey back to Purdue.
All relevant to Marquette's schedule next season. Going to be a gauntlet. They are going to be well prepared for March.
I didn't expect Trey Alexander or Dillon Mitchell. Should be a great schedule.
UCLA, has also done great recently
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I didn't expect Trey Alexander or Dillon Mitchell. Should be a great schedule.
UCLA, has also done great recently
Some whispers UCLA might be about to add 2 elite European prospects (7’3 Aday Mara + 1 more) in addition to the 2 potential one and done foreigners they added last month (Ilane Fibleuil, Jan Vide) Mara is basically Donovan Clingan if he could shoot 3s and pass
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Some whispers UCLA might be about to add 2 elite European prospects (7’3 Aday Mara + 1 more) in addition to the 2 potential one and done foreigners they added last month (Ilane Fibleuil, Jan Vide) Mara is basically Donovan Clingan if he could shoot 3s and pass
Vide is the best of them, imo. he looks very good
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Seth Davis still has Marquette in his updated preseason top 5 even after O-Max decided to leave.
He also has Creighton at #6 and UConn at #12.
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The BE is always a tough conference, but will be even more so this coming season. Georgetown, Villanova, and St. John's will all be better. Seton Hall and Providence may not have really strong teams but will be competitive. And Creighton, UConn, and Xavier, along with MU, will battle it out to see who is top dog. Only Butler and DePaul look like they will continue to be bringing up the rear. Throw in a tough non-conf schedule, and it looks to be a very challenging season.
Is MU going to be better than this past season? Personally, I doubt it. A magical season like the past one is very hard to repeat. And, the loss of Omax will be felt. Will MU be a good team. Oh, yeah...really good. But, 17 conference wins is probably not going to happen again - for MU or any other BE team.
Any improvement in the team is going to have to come primarily from the improved play of Ben Gold, Chase Ross, and David Joplin. The three freshmen are not likely to make a significant difference just because they are freshmen. Tre Norman may get playing time, but probably not a lot of it, and the other two may not play much at all.
Certainly Gold, Joplin, and Ross can make a huge difference with continued development. No doubt about that. But, for the team to be a top ten team with FF aspirations, all three are going to have to take a big step forward.
Of course, last year at this time, we were all bemoaning the loss of Justin Lewis and wondering where the scoring would come from, and that seems to have worked out fine.
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For the first time in the Shaka era I do not know what my expectations are at the moment. Plenty of reasons for optimism and few reasons to be pessimistic. Overall, I am excited for the upcoming season but probably with more muted expectations compared to some on here. That said, plenty of time before opening night and level of optimism can still rise before the season starts.
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I don't really see any reasons for "pessimism" next season, Goose.
I think it's realistic to feel that the regular-season record won't be as good from a W/L standpoint, or that we might not win the conference titles again. But I don't think it's realistic to think we won't be very, very competitive.
My expectations are that we won't win as many games but that we will have more NCAA tournament success, though I reserve the right to change those expectations some after seeing what our final roster looks like.
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17 conference wins is not repeatable, so I anticipate more Scoop meltdowns this year.
Otherwise, my expectations for this team are sky high. There’s no reason an already great offense shouldn’t be significantly better. The only question is defense in the wake of losing O-Max. Can this unit improve enough collectively to offset his departure? They’ll need to be better than last year to have a real shot at going deep.
Ultimately I expect this team to be battling at the top of the Big East and to make deep runs in the BE and NCAA tournaments. How we measure success will hinge on the NCAAT, even more than usual. Anything less than S16 is an outright disappointment, but really we need E8 or beyond. This is a special opportunity.
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For the first time in the Shaka era I do not know what my expectations are at the moment. Plenty of reasons for optimism and few reasons to be pessimistic. Overall, I am excited for the upcoming season but probably with more muted expectations compared to some on here. That said, plenty of time before opening night and level of optimism can still rise before the season starts.
Goose, for 7 years we had Wojo, some success, yes, recruited well at times, was left the cupboard pretty empty, then during that time we all realized he could not coach a lick. Shaka, with the cupboard really empty, recruited heavily and surprised us all with his coaching. Yes, losing Omax will hurt at times, at times Omax was average at
best on the offensive end. I was one who believed he should stay to improve his offensive skills. Gone, now we will see how Gold and Ross improve from there freshman to soph season, I believe offensively the team should be improved. Defense, we will see. Here is a question for the board, has anybody watched the incoming freshman yet? How they look, the team this year is deep. I see no reason why they can not win at least 25 games next year. That to me is a good season!
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:-[ii ::)
17 conference wins is not repeatable, so I anticipate more Scoop meltdowns this year.
Otherwise, my expectations for this team are sky high. There’s no reason an already great offense shouldn’t be significantly better. The only question is defense in the wake of losing O-Max. Can this unit improve enough collectively to offset his departure? They’ll need to be better than last year to have a real shot at going deep.
Ultimately I expect this team to be battling at the top of the Big East and to make deep runs in the BE and NCAA tournaments. How we measure success will hinge on the NCAAT, even more than usual. Anything less than S16 is an outright disappointment, but really we need E8 or beyond. This is a special opportunity.
17 conference wins is not repeatable - so that's a fact now? What if they get 18? I like the "factness" of all our scoopers - just like the "they will only score in the 50's factness of two years ago.
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BC
I remain 100% bullish on Shaka and the program. My saying I have more muted expectations than some is not a slam. I think they will be a very good team next year, not just ready to say they can be a great team. I still think they have a high ceiling, but just not as much wiggle room without Omax. My biggest concerns is the lack of size and Joplin's defense. If he has improved, and he did last year, that removes one concern.
I definitely love the depth and only wish we they had another 6-8 guy on the team. I am also excited to see the freshmen play because it was another set up of talent on the recruiting front.
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17 conference wins is not repeatable - so that's a fact now? What of they get 18? I like the "factness" of all our scoopers - just like the "they will only score in the50's factness of two years ago.
Or the "factness" of claiming that anyone said "they will only score in the 50s" two years ago ;)
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BC
I remain 100% bullish on Shaka and the program. My saying I have more muted expectations than some is not a slam. I think they will be a very good team next year, not just ready to say they can be a great team. I still think they have a high ceiling, but just not as much wiggle room without Omax. My biggest concerns is the lack of size and Joplin's defense. If he has improved, and he did last year, that removes one concern.
I definitely love the depth and only wish we they had another 6-8 guy on the team. I am also excited to see the freshmen play because it was another set up of talent on the recruiting front.
Shaka has principles, he has not going to give a questionable Transfer more NLI money then what he is giving to the players he has now. I get it, but somewhat surprised that they have not been able to get some size as well. With 2 scholys open I was and still are hoping there might be one still to be used. School does
not start till September. We will see. He might want a 4 man class the following year, with 2 taken, I suspect they might get 1 or 2 players out of the 3 they are looking at. Love to get Kon, if I was a kid looking at Virginia and Wisky, look at there style, boring. Campus wise both are better then MU. But MU is strictly a basketball school. And they have Shaka!
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Amadou gets Gold minutes. Gold gets Joplin+ minutes. Joplin gets OMax-ish minutes. Oso carries on. No injuries and that could work.
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Anything less than a natty is a colossal failure and the school should shutdown imo
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I don't really see any reasons for "pessimism" next season, Goose.
Removing the best defender from an average defensive team is usually not a recipe for success. That's my concern with next season. Replacing OMax with Joplin is a plus for the offense and a minus for the defense. Unfortunately, I don't think our offense can get much better. I do think our defense could get a lot worse.
To counter this we either need:
1. To add a defensive minded transfer to replace OMax
2. See tremendous defensive improvement from Joplin (I'm skeptical given his body type and athleticism)
3. See tremendous defensive improvement from those around Joplin to cover for the drop in defensive ability (more optimistic about this one)
4. Have one or more of the newbies be tremendous defensively (heard good things about Norman and Lowery's defense but wish we had a guy who could defend the 4 at a high level coming in)
5. Some combination of the above
Don't get me wrong, I still expect a season on par with last season or better. I just think OMax is a bigger loss than some are willing to admit
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I remain 100% bullish on Shaka and the program. My saying I have more muted expectations than some is not a slam. I think they will be a very good team next year, not just ready to say they can be a great team. I still think they have a high ceiling, but just not as much wiggle room without Omax. My biggest concerns is the lack of size and Joplin's defense. If he has improved, and he did last year, that removes one concern.
With ya here, Goose. I expect a small step back record wise, mainly because of the jump in strength of schedule.
He's in a tough spot trying to figure out how to scheme defensively without OMax. The defense gave up a high percentage but mitigated it by flying around and forcing turnovers. Does Jop have that in him? Biggest question I have going into this season.
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Or the "factness" of claiming that anyone said "they will only score in the 50s" two years ago ;)
MU scored in the 50's four times in regulation that season. One game went to overtime and MU finished in the 60's. MU won one of the remaining three games where they scored in the fifties. But, bottom line, one out of eight games that season they scored in the 50's for 40 minutes. I felt pretty good about that prediction.
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TAMU
I agree with every word in your post. Sign a bigger defensive guy for next season and my expectations go up quite a bit.
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Removing the best defender from an average defensive team is usually not a recipe for success. That's my concern with next season. Replacing OMax with Joplin is a plus for the offense and a minus for the defense. Unfortunately, I don't think our offense can get much better. I do think our defense could get a lot worse.
To counter this we either need:
1. To add a defensive minded transfer to replace OMax
2. See tremendous defensive improvement from Joplin (I'm skeptical given his body type and athleticism)
3. See tremendous defensive improvement from those around Joplin to cover for the drop in defensive ability (more optimistic about this one)
4. Have one or more of the newbies be tremendous defensively (heard good things about Norman and Lowery's defense but wish we had a guy who could defend the 4 at a high level coming in)
5. Some combination of the above
Don't get me wrong, I still expect a season on par with last season or better. I just think OMax is a bigger loss than some are willing to admit
The narrative that OMAX was our best defender is sure being pushed hard here since he left. I was under the impression Steve was our best defender.https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/18/marquette-guard-stevie-mitchell-is-teams-top-defensive-player/70023288007/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/18/marquette-guard-stevie-mitchell-is-teams-top-defensive-player/70023288007/)
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Just my opinion, but the appreciation for OMax's defense grew slowly during the season. After he stifled Hawkins at MSG, the appreciation really took off.
Stevie had a great defensive year. Specifically against Boum in Milwaukee and that glorious possession against Butler.
I appreciated the defense of both players.
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Shaka has principles, he has not going to give a questionable Transfer more NLI money then what he is giving to the players he has now.
He doesn’t give any money to anyone.
I’m hoping* for at least 12 Conf wins next year and would be pleased with 14, tbh
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The narrative that OMAX was our best defender is sure being pushed hard here since he left. I was under the impression Steve was our best defender.https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/18/marquette-guard-stevie-mitchell-is-teams-top-defensive-player/70023288007/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/18/marquette-guard-stevie-mitchell-is-teams-top-defensive-player/70023288007/)
I can't speak for others but I've been pushing that narrative since long before OMax left. Stevie and OMax are both great defenders but OMax's size, length, and versatility put him solidly above Stevie IMHO.
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The Big East is significantly deeper than last year.
Marquette plays Illinois, Texas, UW, Notre Dame.
They could play 3 of Tennessee, Gonzaga, Kansas, Purdue, UCLA.
I would be slightly disappointed but not surprised if they lost like 11 or 12 games and got a 6 to 8 seed. Just for reference, Baylor was a 3 seed with 10 losses last year so 6 to 8 might be a bit low, but still...wouldn't surprise me.
All that matters is that the talent is absolutely there to make a run in March, seed shouldn't matter either way for us next year. Get there and do damage no matter who's in front of you.
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Anyone can shoot jump shots. Making them is a little more important.
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He doesn’t give any money to anyone.
I’m hoping* for at least 12 Conf wins next year and would be pleased with 14, tbh
14 might win the conference this year.
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Omax was their best defender and biggest game changer on defense, IMO. Steve is a very good defender and I enjoy watching him play defense, but Omax made the D click. Several games when MU came out hot to start the second half it was Omax leading the charge. He will be missed, at least by this fan.
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He will be missed by knowers of ball.
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Omax could take on the best guard or small forward and take them out of the game, why MU beat UConn twice was Omax taking Hawkins out of the game, they will miss that!
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tower
How big is that group?
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Embarrassingly small.
That's what she said.
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He doesn’t give any money to anyone.
I’m hoping* for at least 12 Conf wins next year and would be pleased with 14, tbh
.
So you think Shaka does not know what each player is getting, I know and I am not even close to the program!
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A younger Rico used to say, there’s no way that team 90 minutes west of us can be any good this year. Look at what they lost! And then they just ran some donkey out there and didn’t miss a beat and won a bunch of games.
That’s what this staff is building and putting into place.
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So you think Shaka does not know what each player is getting, I know and I am not even close to the program!
Enlighten us
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Enlighten us
Sorry it won’t happen, but every player on both teams got some money, 90 percent where the same, 3 players got much more.
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Sorry it won’t happen, but every player on both teams got some money, 90 percent where the same, 3 players got much more.
You miss the point. Shaka didn't give any players NIL money. Or NLI money, even.
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College basketball NIL money is cute at this point.
Nico Iamaleava probably makes more in NIL than all of Duke Basketball.
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So you think Shaka does not know what each player is getting, I know and I am not even close to the program!
Read. Words matter. I said he doesn’t give them money. He should know what they’re receiving.
Just because I know how many dudes some guys gf is letting hit it doesn’t mean I am.
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-We could and should be a better team but that will likely come with more losses considering our non-conference schedule and the quality of the Big East.
-OMax is a significant loss, especially the defensive versatility and length. If Shaka doesn’t bring in someone from the portal then it’s up to him and the staff to develop the guys that are coming back and adjust the scheme, if necessary, to compensate for that loss. The staff is well aware of what they’re losing defensively.
-With every other significant contributor coming back and the development we’ve seen over Shaka’s two summers with the team we should have really high expectations in regards to how much better our returning guys can be.
-Guys like Jop, Gold and Ross could take massive leaps. But who’s to say Oso, Kam and Kolek can’t continue to improve significantly and reach another level? Maybe Stevie becomes much more consistent from deep. Not to mention the continuity of all these guys playing together another season.
-Anything from the freshman is a bonus and you know at least one will end up a contributor.
-If this teams stays healthy anything less than a 3 seed and a Sweet 16 will be disappointing. GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
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-If this teams stays healthy anything less than a 3 seed and a Sweet 16 will be disappointing. GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
They might once again be the 6-8 seed. But they won't be given a 6-8 seed
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-But who’s to say Oso, Kam and Kolek can’t continue to improve significantly and reach another level?
-If this teams stays healthy anything less than a 3 seed and a Sweet 16 will be disappointing. GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
<Raises Hand> on first point
On second point, 6 seems reasonable to me.
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Am I remembering correctly that the Italy trip allows MU to start practicing earlier? Does anyone have information on how much additional gym time with coaches the freshman will have going into the season because of the trip?
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Am I remembering correctly that the Italy trip allows MU to start practicing earlier? Does anyone have information on how much additional gym time with coaches the freshman will have going into the season because of the trip?
10 days prior I believe. Let me look up later. Frosh can participate if academics are in order
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-who’s to say Oso, Kam and Kolek can’t continue to improve significantly and reach another level? Maybe Stevie becomes much more consistent from deep. Not to mention the continuity of all these guys playing together another season.
-Anything from the freshman is a bonus and you know at least one will end up a contributor.
-If this teams stays healthy anything less than a 3 seed and a Sweet 16 will be disappointing. GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
As to Kolek, Oso and Kam. I'll say it.
I'll just do a stat nerd thing for two seconds. Looking at evanmiya, Kolek was the 11th best player in college basketball last year, Oso was 44th, and Kam Jones was 69th (noice). Here is a complete list of guys ranked that highly that MU has had before that back until 2012. 2018-19 Sam Hauser (50th), Markus Howard (60th), Jae Crowder (5th). That is it.
Improvement from this level is difficult. Improvement again for all three so at the same time, seemingly impossible. I like Oso as a long time pro, but that is alot to expect Kolek and Kam to improve.
Personally, it is hard to me to think that the two guards haven't nearly maxed out their defensive output.
2nd point
Its reasonable.
might quible and say 3 seed and the sweet 16 depend on matchups. But its close.
I'll say 4 seed and not set anything beyond a first round win.
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As to Kolek, Oso and Kam. I'll say it.
I'll just do a stat nerd thing for two seconds. Looking at evanmiya, Kolek was the 11th best player in college basketball last year, Oso was 44th, and Kam Jones was 69th (noice). Here is a complete list of guys ranked that highly that MU has had before that back until 2012. 2018-19 Sam Hauser (50th), Markus Howard (60th), Jae Crowder (5th). That is it.
Improvement from this level is difficult. Improvement again for all three so at the same time, seemingly impossible. I like Oso as a long time pro, but that is alot to expect Kolek and Kam to improve.
Personally, s hard to me to think that the two guards haven't nearly maxed out their defensive output.
2nd point
Its reasonable.
might quible and say 3 seed and the sweet 16 depend on matchups. But its close.
I'll say 4 seed and not set anything beyond a first round win.
Not a huge sample size, but I looked at the top-50 on EvanMiya from 2022 and compared them to 2023 results. I may have missed some as it was a quick scan, and I left off guys like Justin Moore who was injured much of the year, but here are some comparisons:
Improved
Zach Edey 11 --> 1
Anton Watson 23 --> 5
Marcus Sasser 36 --> 8
Jamal Shead 37 --> 29
Baylor Scheiermann 40 --> 26
Santiago Vescovi 50 --> 39
Still Really Good
Azoulis Tubelis 8 --> 7
Oscar Tshiebwe 3 --> 17
Drew Timme 5 --> 15
Xavier Johnson 38 --> 54
Notable Decline
Josiah-Jordan James 19 --> 72
Hunter Dickinson 44 --> 76
Dujuan Harris 39 --> 93
Jalen Wilson 43 --> 114
Armando Bacot 7 --> 137
Obviously Kam falls just outside, but there's precedent for even guys at Tyler's level to improve (I'll take 11 --> 1 next year ;D ) and certainly room for Oso and Kam to improve or sustain where they are at.
I do think the most likely areas for improvement come from guys like Ross, Gold, or an unexpected freshman to blossom early, but even our best players getting better wouldn't be an outlandish expectation, and 80% of the top-15 players like TK out of the (admittedly small) sample stayed in the top-20.
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Removing the best defender from an average defensive team is usually not a recipe for success. That's my concern with next season. Replacing OMax with Joplin is a plus for the offense and a minus for the defense. Unfortunately, I don't think our offense can get much better. I do think our defense could get a lot worse.
To counter this we either need:
1. To add a defensive minded transfer to replace OMax
2. See tremendous defensive improvement from Joplin (I'm skeptical given his body type and athleticism)
3. See tremendous defensive improvement from those around Joplin to cover for the drop in defensive ability (more optimistic about this one)
4. Have one or more of the newbies be tremendous defensively (heard good things about Norman and Lowery's defense but wish we had a guy who could defend the 4 at a high level coming in)
5. Some combination of the above
Don't get me wrong, I still expect a season on par with last season or better. I just think OMax is a bigger loss than some are willing to admit
I agree with lots of this, but I don't think "concern" is the same as "pessimism."
One is being worried about what might happen, the other is having a negative outlook.
It's totally legit to look at our situation and have some concerns. Actually being down on our team? Not so legit IMHO.
I can't speak for others, but I absolutely value what O-Max brought, and it sure would have been nice to have him back. And, like Goose and others, I'd really like to see Shaka bring in a transfer to help on D, rebounding and whatnot.
But we still have 8 of 9 rotation players back from last season -- including the BEPOY, an All-BE center, an All-BE guard, the BE 6th man of the year, a defensive stopper, a soph-to-be big whom many here have predicted will be the next guy MU sends to the NBA, a soph-to-be wing who might be the best athlete on the team, and a couple of highly regarded freshmen. Oh, and the AP national coach of the year, who has proven to be outstanding at developing talent.
I'm sticking with there not really being reason for pessimism about the 2023-24 Marquette men's basketball team.
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Not a huge sample size, but I looked at the top-50 on EvanMiya from 2022 and compared them to 2023 results. I may have missed some as it was a quick scan, and I left off guys like Justin Moore who was injured much of the year, but here are some comparisons:
Improved
Zach Edey 11 --> 1
Anton Watson 23 --> 5
Marcus Sasser 36 --> 8
Jamal Shead 37 --> 29
Baylor Scheiermann 40 --> 26
Santiago Vescovi 50 --> 39
Still Really Good
Azoulis Tubelis 8 --> 7
Oscar Tshiebwe 3 --> 17
Drew Timme 5 --> 15
Xavier Johnson 38 --> 54
Notable Decline
Josiah-Jordan James 19 --> 72
Hunter Dickinson 44 --> 76
Dujuan Harris 39 --> 93
Jalen Wilson 43 --> 114
Armando Bacot 7 --> 137
Obviously Kam falls just outside, but there's precedent for even guys at Tyler's level to improve (I'll take 11 --> 1 next year ;D ) and certainly room for Oso and Kam to improve or sustain where they are at.
I do think the most likely areas for improvement come from guys like Ross, Gold, or an unexpected freshman to blossom early, but even our best players getting better wouldn't be an outlandish expectation, and 80% of the top-15 players like TK out of the (admittedly small) sample stayed in the top-20.
Stated another way, at this level roughly 1/3 of players improve, 1/3 stay the same, and 1/3 decline.
Assuming that your sample is representative, while its not outlandish to think that individualy Tyler, Kam or Oso will improve, there's only a 1 in 27 chance that all three do so.
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Not at all saying TK, Oso, and Kam will look like Edey, Sasser, and Vescovi next year. But I think it's fair to say the most likely outcome is all three are still high level players in the top-100 range, and Tyler will probably still be in the top 1% of players in the country.
In terms of elite players, Marquette can reasonably expect to have 3 of the 100 best players in the country by this measure. And consider the jump those three made:
Tyler Kolek 503 --> 11
Oso Ighodaro 586 --> 44
Kam Jones Sub-1,000 --> 69
Stevie Mitchell 899 --> 97
O-Max Prosper 939 --> 109
David Joplin Sub-1,000 --> 297
If a Joplin, Chase, Gold, or other player makes a jump like what we've seen , this team will stand to be better than they were last year. And better than they were last year has been my personal expectation all along.
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Some folks are making the same mistake they made last year, when they looked at the roster and didn't allow at all for the idea that players often improve, and well-coached players can improve considerably.
As brew says, it's hardly outrageous to believe that a coaching staff that helped Kolek, Oso and Kam become all-conference players, O-Max become a possible first-round draft pick and Joplin become the Big East's best 6th man will also help the likes of Ross and Gold improve substantially from their freshman to sophomore seasons.
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Some folks are making the same mistake they made last year, when they looked at the roster and didn't allow at all for the idea that players often improve, and well-coached players can improve considerably.
As brew says, it's hardly outrageous to believe that a coaching staff that helped Kolek, Oso and Kam become all-conference players, O-Max become a possible first-round draft pick and Joplin become the Big East's best 6th man will also help the likes of Ross and Gold improve substantially from their freshman to sophomore seasons.
Also exactly what I said. (Not trying to call you out so don’t want that to come off the wrong way).
Obviously we won’t get best case outcomes from all of our guys. And maybe Tyler doesn’t have much more room to improve. But, health permitting, if a couple of guys take big leaps, a couple take more moderate leaps and there’s not any big unexpected regression, things should be looking good.
Of Kam, Tyler and Oso it feels like Oso could be the one to take the biggest jump.
At the same time, it’s totally fair for defense and rebounding to be real concerns.
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Also exactly what I said. (Not trying to call you out so don’t want that to come off the wrong way).
Obviously we won’t get best case outcomes from all of our guys. And maybe Tyler doesn’t have much more room to improve. But, health permitting, if a couple of guys take big leaps, a couple take more moderate leaps and there’s not any big unexpected regression, things should be looking good.
Of Kam, Tyler and Oso it feels like Oso could be the one to take the biggest jump.
At the same time, it’s totally fair for defense and rebounding to be real concerns.
Agree on all that. (And no call-out inferred.)
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GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
Are Radford and Georgia Tech on the schedule?
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GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
Are Radford and Georgia Tech on the schedule?
Luckily we’ve avoided both of those matchups this season.
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:-[ii ::)
17 conference wins is not repeatable - so that's a fact now? What if they get 18? I like the "factness" of all our scoopers - just like the "they will only score in the 50's factness of two years ago.
Some of you scoopers struggle with very basic hyperbole. Of course it’s possible they win 17+ next season, just like it was last season. The point is that the chances of that happening are so low it wouldn’t be a realistic goal, even for a significantly improved team.
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Some of you scoopers struggle with very basic hyperbole. Of course it’s possible they win 17+ next season, just like it was last season. The point is that the chances of that happening are so low it wouldn’t be a realistic goal, even for a significantly improved team.
COLE!
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When I think expectations for this team, I do think areas of improvement. Here's where I think this team can improve:
- Three-point percentage: We were fine last year, but if this team makes their open threes at a higher clip (possible considering development and the looks TK & Oso create) there's a significantly higher ceiling.
- Free Throw Rate: Yes, we lose O-Max, but experience and past success should help in this regard. I think some of the calls we didn't get will go our way and the focus on shots near the rim will aid that. Not saying we'll be great, but improving from #317 to top-200 would be a significant jump.
- Team Defense: Historically, Shaka's teams make defensive jumps in year 3. At VCU, they went 98/78/23 and at Texas they went 40/21/12. There will be focus on the loss of Prosper, but his year 3 VCU lost 4 senior starters from a Final 4 team and year 3 Texas lost their two front court starters (Shaq Cleare & Jarrett Allen). The key here isn't individual losses but team continuity.
- Rebounding: O-Max had the Xavier put-back, but he was not a good rebounder. He was okay on the offensive end, but Jop and Gold can replicate that, and I think a year of growth will allow them to be better on the defensive end as well. Not expecting miracles, but top-200 on the offensive end and top-250 on the defensive end would go a long way toward improvement.
- Defensive Turnover Rate: I know this was one of our strengths, but I think having more experience for the guards, the more active hands Joplin showed as the season went on (notably better than O-Max in conference play), and likely more small-ball lineups can take this from strength to elite.
I will concede this is somewhat idealistic, but many of these areas have already shown some modest improvement from year 1 to 2. I believe in what this staff is building, and if the consensus is that we're in the 6-15 range of teams nationally, I think we are being underrated once again. Barring injury, this is a top-5 team in the country.
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When I think expectations for this team, I do think areas of improvement. Here's where I think this team can improve:
- Three-point percentage: We were fine last year, but if this team makes their open threes at a higher clip (possible considering development and the looks TK & Oso create) there's a significantly higher ceiling.
- Free Throw Rate: Yes, we lose O-Max, but experience and past success should help in this regard. I think some of the calls we didn't get will go our way and the focus on shots near the rim will aid that. Not saying we'll be great, but improving from #317 to top-200 would be a significant jump.
- Team Defense: Historically, Shaka's teams make defensive jumps in year 3. At VCU, they went 98/78/23 and at Texas they went 40/21/12. There will be focus on the loss of Prosper, but his year 3 VCU lost 4 senior starters from a Final 4 team and year 3 Texas lost their two front court starters (Shaq Cleare & Jarrett Allen). The key here isn't individual losses but team continuity.
- Rebounding: O-Max had the Xavier put-back, but he was not a good rebounder. He was okay on the offensive end, but Jop and Gold can replicate that, and I think a year of growth will allow them to be better on the defensive end as well. Not expecting miracles, but top-200 on the offensive end and top-250 on the defensive end would go a long way toward improvement.
- Defensive Turnover Rate: I know this was one of our strengths, but I think having more experience for the guards, the more active hands Joplin showed as the season went on (notably better than O-Max in conference play), and likely more small-ball lineups can take this from strength to elite.
I will concede this is somewhat idealistic, but many of these areas have already shown some modest improvement from year 1 to 2. I believe in what this staff is building, and if the consensus is that we're in the 6-15 range of teams nationally, I think we are being underrated once again. Barring injury, this is a top-5 team in the country.
That's an insightful, info-filled comment filled with modest, realistic expectations.
Experience matters. Continuity matters. Improvement matters. Coaches who know how to develop both individual players and team concepts matter.
Fans in general (not just Scoopers) tend to undervalue or not even consider that. Some look at names on a roster and say, "Here's what we don't have."
Next season, we'll have a lot. We Are Marquette!
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When I think expectations for this team, I do think areas of improvement. Here's where I think this team can improve:
- Three-point percentage: We were fine last year, but if this team makes their open threes at a higher clip (possible considering development and the looks TK & Oso create) there's a significantly higher ceiling.
- Free Throw Rate: Yes, we lose O-Max, but experience and past success should help in this regard. I think some of the calls we didn't get will go our way and the focus on shots near the rim will aid that. Not saying we'll be great, but improving from #317 to top-200 would be a significant jump.
- Team Defense: Historically, Shaka's teams make defensive jumps in year 3. At VCU, they went 98/78/23 and at Texas they went 40/21/12. There will be focus on the loss of Prosper, but his year 3 VCU lost 4 senior starters from a Final 4 team and year 3 Texas lost their two front court starters (Shaq Cleare & Jarrett Allen). The key here isn't individual losses but team continuity.
- Rebounding: O-Max had the Xavier put-back, but he was not a good rebounder. He was okay on the offensive end, but Jop and Gold can replicate that, and I think a year of growth will allow them to be better on the defensive end as well. Not expecting miracles, but top-200 on the offensive end and top-250 on the defensive end would go a long way toward improvement.
- Defensive Turnover Rate: I know this was one of our strengths, but I think having more experience for the guards, the more active hands Joplin showed as the season went on (notably better than O-Max in conference play), and likely more small-ball lineups can take this from strength to elite.
I will concede this is somewhat idealistic, but many of these areas have already shown some modest improvement from year 1 to 2. I believe in what this staff is building, and if the consensus is that we're in the 6-15 range of teams nationally, I think we are being underrated once again. Barring injury, this is a top-5 team in the country.
Three-point percentage:- yep. i see it.
- Free Throw Rate: - pretty unlikely, alot of guys need to adjust their play style for this to happen, plus. I like all the 2pFGA we have anyways, so i don't know if i want this increasing too much. If we keep shooting so well from 2 it probably isn't as our best interest for this to happen as it would be for other teams.
- Team Defense: - HIGHLY, unlikely. Will require that shoot defense. The way to do this is to have opponent eFG to drastically change.
- Rebounding: sure, but this doesn't matter as much as scoop thinks it does.
- Defensive Turnover Rate: - it could improve marginally.
Defensive eFG is probably more important than all of these, though you probably see that as team defense.
Top 5 is high. probably 8-14 on average. the top 5 upside is there, and the downside is relatively low (maybe 25th). I just don't a path see us being able to be the best team in the country though, which i think could have maybe seen happen with Omax.
I don't know if this group can become a top 30 defensive team per se.
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That's an insightful, info-filled comment filled with modest, realistic expectations.
Experience matters. Continuity matters. Improvement matters. Coaches who know how to develop both individual players and team concepts matter.
Fans in general (not just Scoopers) tend to undervalue or not even consider that. Some look at names on a roster and say, "Here's what we don't have."
Next season, we'll have a lot. We Are Marquette!
Do free throws matter?
Agree Big Time with the bolded. The ability of the coaches to help a player improve both individually and as a team member is crucial to overall success and is often seriously undervalued by fans. With the possible exception of some supremely talented 5 star players, the coaches make a huge difference in a player's and team's success.
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We'll be better than last season no doubt in my mind. Doubters can kick rocks
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GE03 mentioning the possibility of a 6 to 8 seed is amusing.
Are Radford and Georgia Tech on the schedule?
Why is that amusing?
6 seeds are still Top 24 teams.
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Why is that amusing?
6 seeds are still Top 24 teams.
COLE
O L
L. O
ELOC
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For the first time in the Shaka era I do not know what my expectations are at the moment. Plenty of reasons for optimism and few reasons to be pessimistic. Overall, I am excited for the upcoming season but probably with more muted expectations compared to some on here. That said, plenty of time before opening night and level of optimism can still rise before the season starts.
+1
Funny think about Omax is how little attention he got on this team while being as important as TKO and Oso.
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The narrative that OMAX was our best defender is sure being pushed hard here since he left. I was under the impression Steve was our best defender.https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/18/marquette-guard-stevie-mitchell-is-teams-top-defensive-player/70023288007/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/03/18/marquette-guard-stevie-mitchell-is-teams-top-defensive-player/70023288007/)
Omax could defend different types of players.
Otherwise, they're both stellar.
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+1
Funny think about Omax is how little attention he got on this team while being as important as TKO and Oso.
OMax was very important and undervalued by some for sure. As important as TKO? No way. As important as Oso? Debatable but no.
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17 conference wins is not repeatable, so I anticipate more Scoop meltdowns this year.
Otherwise, my expectations for this team are sky high. There’s no reason an already great offense shouldn’t be significantly better. The only question is defense in the wake of losing O-Max. Can this unit improve enough collectively to offset his departure? They’ll need to be better than last year to have a real shot at going deep.
Ultimately I expect this team to be battling at the top of the Big East and to make deep runs in the BE and NCAA tournaments. How we measure success will hinge on the NCAAT, even more than usual. Anything less than S16 is an outright disappointment, but really we need E8 or beyond. This is a special opportunity.
Agreed. A deep run in the tournament should be the expectation with what we have coming back.
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Agreed. A deep run in the tournament should be the expectation with what we have coming back.
The only problem i have with people declaring deep tourney runs as an expectation, is the notion that tournament runs are equivalent to one another. They aren't sometimes you play the best teams sometimes destroying them, and sometimes you don't.
Kansas 2022 National title run isn't as impressive as say Villanova's in 2018. for instance.
Kansas played the 8 seed led by caleb love in the final. They ended up playing a light miami team in the elite 8. They played the luckiest team ever in Cooley's friars. They played a 12 loss Creighton team. 1 top 2 win over Nova.
2018 Villanova steam rolled everyone playing a Michigan team in the final, with three solid nba players on it. They did the same to a kansas team with 2 nba players on it. They beat Beard and Culver's Texas Tech, and West Virgina's Jevon carter. They took Collin Sexton's and Herbert Jones's bama team to the wood shed. 4 top 12 wins.
It is too matchup dependent. It is naive to expect a "tournament run" ever. Sometimes you play a 4 seed in the sweet 16 who figures it out and wins it all.
If you expect more than one round out of any non 1 seed. you are just setting yourself up for failure.
Do you think the 2011 or 2013 Marquette teams were substantially better than this years team?
I don't, but those teams made tournament runs. 2013, they won the first two games by 3 points, and went to the elite 8. They beat the SOCON winning Davidson team by one point because Davidson choked on rice.
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Kansas 2022 National title run isn't as impressive as say Villanova's in 2018. for instance.
For the record, I'll happily accept even an unimpressive National title run.
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For the record, I'll happily accept even an unimpressive National title run.
same... i just don't expect it
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COLE
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ELOC
Top 24 isn't low expectations. That's where we should be.
If they fall a little lower on the seed lines because of a tough schedule, big deal, they still have enough talent to make a run. Seed lines don't matter.
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same... i just don't expect it
#crapshoot, aina
I’ll be fine with a 6 seed or better in the tourney. A BET 6 seed or worse, meaning we’d play on Wednesday, would hurt my soul
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Top 24 isn't low expectations. That's where we should be.
If they fall a little lower on the seed lines because of a tough schedule, big deal, they still have enough talent to make a run. Seed lines don't matter.
Disagree.
Seed lines can and do matter. It doesn’t mean you can’t lose early with a high seed as we saw this season. And of course a team can still have a nice run in the tourney with a lower seed as we saw as well this year. However, the higher the seed the better.
You’re salivating over Villanova yet you wouldn’t be disappointed if a top 10 team that was a 2 seed and returns every significant contributor except for one ends up as a 6 seed.
So yeah, to me if this team is healthy and finishes as a 6 seed that’ll be extremely disappointing.
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Disagree.
Seed lines can and do matter. It doesn’t mean you can’t lose early with a high seed as we saw this season. And of course a team can still have a nice run in the tourney with a lower seed as we saw as well this year. However, the higher the seed the better.
You’re salivating over Villanova yet you wouldn’t be disappointed if a top 10 team that was a 2 seed and returns every significant contributor except for one ends up as a 6 seed.
So yeah, to me if this team is healthy and finishes as a 6 seed that’ll be extremely disappointing.
I said the computers/Vegas are going to love Villanova because of the production their roster produced last year (though mostly with different teams).
OMax isn't just a guy, he's probably the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.
Marquette was a 4 seed at the initial Top 16 reveal and finished strong to get to the 2 line. I expect the Big East to be significantly better as well as Marquettes schedule to be significantly tougher.
I don't expect Marquette to be worse, but their results probably will be in the regular season.
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I said the computers/Vegas are going to love Villanova because of the production their roster produced last year (though mostly with different teams).
OMax isn't just a guy, he's probably the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.
Marquette was a 4 seed at the initial Top 16 reveal and finished strong to get to the 2 line. I expect the Big East to be significantly better as well as Marquettes schedule to be significantly tougher.
I don't expect Marquette to be worse, but their results probably will be in the regular season.
Yep, it’s hard to go 17-3 in conference play and the NC schedule is not easy and it’s hard to go as injury-free as this past season. Still going to be a very good team, but the numbers likely not to be as good .
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I said the computers/Vegas are going to love Villanova because of the production their roster produced last year (though mostly with different teams).
OMax isn't just a guy, he's probably the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.
Marquette was a 4 seed at the initial Top 16 reveal and finished strong to get to the 2 line. I expect the Big East to be significantly better as well as Marquettes schedule to be significantly tougher.
I don't expect Marquette to be worse, but their results probably will be in the regular season.
Remind me where I said OMax was "just a guy"... And Oso was the most important player on the roster outside of Kolek.
Your comment on Nova: "Is an unreal starting 5. WOW.". Like I said, salivating. And exaggerating.
Marquette can end up with a worse overall and Big East record and still end up with a top 4 seed. Sure, they'll likely have more losses but they'll have even more opportunities for impactful wins.
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O-Max being the second most important player on last year’s team is total revisionist history. The vast majority of fans, including all the oracles of scoop, rated him a distant fourth. Some would’ve gone as low as fifth or sixth.
We could debate that he was more valuable than we thought—primary for his defensive contributions—but it feels like his pro assessments have tilted the scales retrospectively.
Don’t get me wrong, I really liked his game and that he played his best ball when it counted most. But even with his departure I think it’s reasonable to expect Marquette to improve year over year. The question is how much.
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O-Max being the second most important player on last year’s team is total revisionist history. The vast majority of fans, including all the oracles of scoop, rated him a distant fourth. Some would’ve gone as low as fifth or sixth.
We could debate that he was more valuable than we thought—primary for his defensive contributions—but it feels like his pro assessments have tilted the scales retrospectively.
He was guarding the other teams best player almost ever night while also scoring 12.5 each night in nearly 30 minutes. He was also the most athletic player on the team (along with Chase) and quickest up and down the court.
A lot say his importance goes beyond the box score, but he also filled the box scores too. He's going to be tough to replace.
With all the growth and development I expect to see, I think Marquette absolutely could be a better team (regardless of what the record says compared to last year), but it won't be seamless.
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A lot say his importance goes beyond the box score, but he also filled the box scores too.
He filled the box score? With what? His low-for-his-size-and-athleticism DR%, that trailed both Tyler and Kam? His tiny block %? His low steal rate? His miniscule assist rate?
We will miss the d (pawz), his movement in transition and ability to get to the line.
I think another year in college, and he could have bolstered some of his other stats. I can't say that for some other guys.. I think they will be lesser statistically in 2023-24 tbh.
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O-Max being the second most important player on last year’s team is total revisionist history. The vast majority of fans, including all the oracles of scoop, rated him a distant fourth. Some would’ve gone as low as fifth or sixth.
We could debate that he was more valuable than we thought—primary for his defensive contributions—but it feels like his pro assessments have tilted the scales retrospectively.
Don’t get me wrong, I really liked his game and that he played his best ball when it counted most. But even with his departure I think it’s reasonable to expect Marquette to improve year over year. The question is how much.
Going to need receipts on this one, because I don't believe it.
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Going to need receipts on this one, because I don't believe it.
I’m obviously not going to spend 12 hours combing through game threads for you. You’d find limitless handwringing about his balance and overall offensive game. Honestly I’m surprised this is even being contested. The consensus order was Kolek > Oso/Kam > O-Max.
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I’m obviously not going to spend 12 hours combing through game threads for you. You’d find limitless handwringing about his balance and overall offensive game. Honestly I’m surprised this is even being contested. The consensus order was Kolek > Oso/Kam > O-Max.
O-Max was an outstanding defender who was inconsistent offensively. We'll 100% miss his ability to extend our defense, to defend 1-5, and to occasionally provide an offensive lift.
But if we have to rate players ...
You wouldn't put Kolek (BEPOY and top-3 assists nationally) and Oso (All-BE player who anchored our defense and served as offensive fulcrum) ahead of O-Max on the value meter?
Personally, O-Max's defense put him ahead of Kam for me, but I can see a case being made for Kam. Those who rated Stevie or any of the subs ahead of O-Max last season simply don't know basketball.
Assuming O-Max gets drafted, it won't really be because of what he did at Marquette. As is always the case, it will be because of his potential. That a guy with his size, athleticism and defensive ability is seen as a very good prospect by NBA types doesn't make him more valuable than Kolek or Oso to last season's MU team IMHO.
Bottom line: I sure wish he would have played another year for a Marquette team with championship aspirations, though I don't blame him at all for leaving.
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Kolek was the MVP last year and Omax was the most important player. Anyone that does not know the value he brought to the team last year must not have watched very closely. I find crazy that there would be any debate over the value Omax brought to the team, but I am not surprised.
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Marquette dropped from a 1 to a 3 seed in Lunardis bracketology with the departure of OMax.
We are screwed.
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Kolek was the MVP last year and Omax was the most important player. Anyone that does not know the value he brought to the team last year must not have watched very closely. I find crazy that there would be any debate over the value Omax brought to the team, but I am not surprised.
The strength of our team last year was offense, IMO. That makes Kolek the MVP, MOP, MIP , or whatever you want to call it. SOTG totals reflect that as well. Of course I think we will miss O-Max, but we'd miss Kolek, or Oso a lot more.
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lawdog
Several of their best halves of basketball started 100% on the defensive end that carried over to the offensive side of the court. In three of those games Omax led on the D side of the court and made several key quick baskets to start the half. Going from memory, but Omax was a big part of their offensive nights. I only need to go back to the Baylor game to see the role he played last season.
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Several of their best halves of basketball started 100% on the defensive end that carried over to the offensive side of the court. In three of those games Omax led on the D side of the court and made several key quick baskets to start the half. Going from memory, but Omax was a big part of their offensive nights. I only need to go back to the Baylor game to see the role he played last season.
I won't dispute that O-Max had the value you describe above, and I appreciate what he brought. But going from memory, I only need to go back to lots and lots and lots and lots of games to see the role Oso played last season.
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lawdog
Several of their best halves of basketball started 100% on the defensive end that carried over to the offensive side of the court. In three of those games Omax led on the D side of the court and made several key quick baskets to start the half. Going from memory, but Omax was a big part of their offensive nights. I only need to go back to the Baylor game to see the role he played last season.
As good as he was vs Baylor, he was as bad in our losses versus:
Wisconsin 3-11
Purdue 2-5
Miss St-1-6
Providence 3-9
UConn 0-1
Xavier 4-9
My recollection of his offensive game is that he was very inconsistent. He showed flashes of NBA potential, then disappeared others.
As good as our offense was last year, it could be better this year.
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Lawdog
Omax did struggle offensively in those games and so did the team in many of them. Our best offensive games had the good Omax on offense.
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As good as he was vs Baylor, he was as bad in our losses versus:
Wisconsin 3-11
Purdue 2-5
Miss St-1-6
Providence 3-9
UConn 0-1
Xavier 4-9
My recollection of his offensive game is that he was very inconsistent. He showed flashes of NBA potential, then disappeared others.
As good as our offense was last year, it could be better this year.
Not sure what FG% matters, but… disagree on Becky and X. Not bad in either
Vs Becky you left out 7p at the line (8 trips), only 1 turnover w 26% usage. ORtg 105
At X, no turnovers in 30 mins. 116 ORtg
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Lawdog
Omax did struggle offensively in those games and so did the team in many of them. Our best offensive games had the good Omax on offense.
Omax did not score over 17 points after Jan 3.His most assists in a game was 3. He had 24 assists for the year. On our 10 game win streak at the end of the year, Omax averaged 10 points a game. I think as much as some are undervaluing his defense, you are overvaluing his offense.
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Not sure what FG% matters, but… disagree on Becky and X. Not bad in either
Vs Becky you left out 7p at the line (8 trips), only 1 turnover w 26% usage. ORtg 105
At X, no turnovers in 30 mins. 116 ORtg
ftnomatta
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Omax did not score over 17 points after Jan 3.His most assists in a game was 3. He had 24 assists for the year. On our 10 game win streak at the end of the year, Omax averaged 10 points a game. I think as much as some are undervaluing his defense, you are overvaluing his offense.
Or, put another way…, from Feb 25, OMax had an insane ORTG of 125.4, eFG% of 56.8%, and 44% FTrate
Wat iz we talm bout hurr???
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Or, put another way…, from Feb 25, OMax had an insane ORTG of 125.4, eFG% of 56.8%, and 44% FTrate
Wat iz we talm bout hurr???
We're talking about him being the 4th best player on the offensive and.Oh, and he had 1 block, and 5 assists in that 8 game stretch.
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Or, put another way…, from Feb 25, OMax had an insane ORTG of 125.4, eFG% of 56.8%, and 44% FTrate
Wat iz we talm bout hurr???
What was his usage?
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What was his usage?
Over 17%, not crazy out of line with his overall
Low usage guy w low blk% = 2nd round?
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Over 17%, not crazy out of line with his overall
Low usage guy w low blk% = 2nd round?
I'd be more worried about his assist percentage 3.9%
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I'd be more worried about his assist percentage 3.9%
Many are.
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OMax on the ball defense and overall elite defensive and athletic ability helped win Marquette several games.
His put back v Xavier was for my money the play of the year.
For his abilities and potential he underachieved imo.
If he was better and more assertive offensively Marquette would have won more games.
If he rebounded better and made more of the types of athletic plays defensively that he is likely capable of Marquette would have won more games.
He was at his worst offensively when the team needed him the most in the regular season- in many games Marquette lost he was poor and passive offensively, and he didn’t create for others.
He had some of his elite offensive games versus cupcakes and that padded his offensive stats.
He was also at his best defensively in some of Marquettes crucial games versus elite wings.
He played well in the tournament both seasons if memory serves.
All of the above can be true at the same time.
It’s also absolutely true that unfortunately he’s no longer at Marquette.
Good luck in professional ball, but next man up.
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OMax on the ball defense and overall elite defensive and athletic ability helped win Marquette several games.
His put back v Xavier was for my money the play of the year.
For his abilities and potential he underachieved imo.
If he was better and more assertive offensively Marquette would have won more games.
If he rebounded better and made more of the types of athletic plays defensively that he is likely capable of Marquette would have won more games.
He was at his worst offensively when the team needed him the most in the regular season- in many games Marquette lost he was poor and passive offensively, and he didn’t create for others.
He had some of his elite offensive games versus cupcakes and that padded his offensive stats.
He was also at his best defensively in some of Marquettes crucial games versus elite wings.
He played well in the tournament both seasons if memory serves.
All of the above can be true at the same time.
It’s also absolutely true that unfortunately he’s no longer at Marquette.
Good luck in professional ball, but next man up.
but there is no way this team can be equal or better next year without him...
No way Gold, Joplin, or Ross step up their game significantly. No way any of the other 4 returning starters improve their game, no way any of the freshman contribute significantly, no way Shaka tweaks his offensive or defensive strategy maximizing different players without Omax...
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but there is no way this team can be equal or better next year without him...
No way Gold, Joplin, or Ross step up their game significantly. No way any of the other 4 returning starters improve their game, no way any of the freshman contribute significantly, no way Shaka tweaks his offensive or defensive strategy maximizing different players without Omax...
Has anyone said any of this?
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Has anyone said any of this?
No.
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No.
Says “Mr 6th to 8th seed prediction”
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Kolek was the MVP last year and Omax was the most important player. Anyone that does not know the value he brought to the team last year must not have watched very closely. I find crazy that there would be any debate over the value Omax brought to the team, but I am not surprised.
Yep.
And 82, its “don’t know ball” (not basketball). Stick to the program.
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Says “Mr 6th to 8th seed prediction”
"I would be slightly disappointed but not surprised if they lost like 11 or 12 games and got a 6 to 8 seed. Just for reference, Baylor was a 3 seed with 10 losses last year so 6 to 8 might be a bit low, but still...wouldn't surprise me."
That's what I said. No where in there did I make definitive prediction and even said 6 to 8 might be a little low.
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"I would be slightly disappointed but not surprised if they lost like 11 or 12 games and got a 6 to 8 seed. Just for reference, Baylor was a 3 seed with 10 losses last year so 6 to 8 might be a bit low, but still...wouldn't surprise me."
That's what I said. No where in there did I make definitive prediction and even said 6 to 8 might be a little low.
You also were going to be disappointed but not surprised if we lost to Redford last year.
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You also were going to be disappointed but not surprised if we lost to Redford last year.
*If Radford kept it close
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You also were going to be disappointed but not surprised if we lost to Redford last year.
Thank goodness Newman didn't also show up, or they woulda really stung us.
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Bravo
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After listening to the Shaka presser my expectations have risen for this upcoming season. His level of confidence in the guys on the roster is real and who I am to doubt it. I think he is confident that there is will be real upside improvement and loved his comment that being 43rd in D is not going to cut it.
Will note, I have tried extremely hard to be the Shaka kool aide drinker and my thoughts are based of off what he said and the success they have had the last two years.
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It sounded like MU is not searching the transfer portal.
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I continue to expect Marquette to be excellent next season. We should be strong contenders to win the conference title and have a nice March run. The Final Four is absolutely attainable.
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After listening to the Shaka presser my expectations have risen for this upcoming season. His level of confidence in the guys on the roster is real and who I am to doubt it. I think he is confident that there is will be real upside improvement and loved his comment that being 43rd in D is not going to cut it.
Will note, I have tried extremely hard to be the Shaka kool aide drinker and my thoughts are based of off what he said and the success they have had the last two years.
Loved Shaka highlighting the potential of the sophomores to make a big leap. Really feels like the key for MU to get where they want to be next season.
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I don’t know if the link will work because it’s an Instagram story, but my god this pass from Kolek is stupid good. Running to his left, doubled, out near half court, throws it on the run one handed for an ally oop. I don’t know that there are 10 people in the world that can make this pass.
https://instagram.com/stories/hidden_talent_k/3130898427026047336?utm_source=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
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Zaide Lowery with a monster block of Al Amadou.
That looked personal. Jeesh!
https://twitter.com/tammarag/status/1682911412593541120?t=lrJawdU0__l2C1aaqHvypA&s=19
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Zaides a dude.
Still, not the biggest dude in his class I don’t think.
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David Joplin mic’d up at softball game
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1681804989088374785?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
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David Joplin mic’d up at softball game
https://twitter.com/MarquetteMBB/status/1681804989088374785?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Stud of the softball game - jop
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Stud of the softball game - jop
Hot-N-Ready! This could be Jop’s new nickname.
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Hot-N-Ready! This could be Jop’s new nickname.
I’m ok calling a guy a microwave, but I’m not calling a dude Hot N Ready
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Sam Vecenie's 2024 Mock has Oso going in the 1st round at 28.
No other Marquette players mentioned in rounds 1 or 2.
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1706661386456039555?s=46&t=OJ8v5OSYAchdmCLDsa-Kgw
This gets me fired up. Can't wait for November.
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https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/1706661386456039555?s=46&t=OJ8v5OSYAchdmCLDsa-Kgw
This gets me fired up. Can't wait for November.
Loved it, wades, thanks for posting.
Three Oso-related moments stood out: Great pass to cutting Jop for drive over Gold ... Aggressive move to dunk in Amadou's face ... Amadou blocking Oso's short jumper - Amadon't!
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While I had some reservations about the upside of this time a couple of months ago, my expectations are on the rise. The more I hear about Ross, the more excited I get.
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One of the best parts of this entire offseason is that we haven’t heard a single whisper about tempering expectations of any kind, not from a coach or a player, and that’s awesome.
It’s easy to fall into the trap of “well this is a brand new season and nothing is given, everyone else is improved and we will get everyone’s best shot so it won’t be easy!”
The above could be a true statement, but it’s not the narrative coming from the team and I love to see that.
Speaks volumes of Shaka and the culture he’s building.
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Amadon't!
Love it! Look forward to lots of that in the years to come.
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Loved it, wades, thanks for posting.
Three Oso-related moments stood out: Great pass to cutting Jop for drive over Gold ... Aggressive move to dunk in Amadou's face ... Amadou blocking Oso's short jumper - Amadon't!
That was Caedin Hamilton's jumper Al, blocked, not Oso's.
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That was Caedin Hamilton's jumper Al, blocked, not Oso's.
Thanks for the correction. I watched it quickly and it immediately followed Oso dunking on Al - I thought they showed it because it was retribution!
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The way this team is preparing and practicing, it looks like they’re aware they’ve somehow fallen to 10th in the ESPN early rankings.
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Zaides a dude.
Still, not the biggest dude in his class I don’t think.
He's also A LOT taller than I expected. Dude looks good so far in practice vids. Feeling Bullish as heck on him and Ross.
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He's also A LOT taller than I expected. Dude looks good so far in practice vids. Feeling Bullish as heck on him and Ross.
Agree fully
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He's also A LOT taller than I expected. Dude looks good so far in practice vids. Feeling Bullish as heck on him and Ross.
Yea coming in I think I assumed he would be a 2/3, but the more I see of him the more he looks like a 3/4. Has he gotten taller?
Seems like a beast, and it seems like he’s a good shooter. Can’t wait to see him in live game action.
Hope he’s got a good feel of the game, especially defensively.
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Agree fully
Whoever the 5th starter is will become the first player Shaka signed from high school after arriving at MU to start a game at Marquette.
Prior to this season, every starter in every game has been a transfer or Wojo signee.
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Anyone care to take a guess on the minutes per game for the four freshmen?
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Assuming no injuries?
Can Tre take Sean's minutes?
Will Shaka want to go with 4 bigger guards? Lowery, Ross, Kolek, Jones/Stevie?
If they come in and force Shaka to play them, this will be a ridiculous team.
My gut says Amadou plays minutes like Ben last year.
Norman and Lowery have to take minutes from TKo, Kam, Stevie, Ross, and Sean. Tell me how.
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Assuming no injuries?
Can Tre take Sean's minutes?
—Sure, maybe a few. He can also take a few from Tyler, Kam, or Stevie.
Will Shaka want to go with 4 bigger guards? Lowery, Ross, Kolek, Jones/Stevie?
—I think we will see a whole bunch of 3 “guard” sets. The way MU plays it’s hard to qualify Ross and Lowery as pure guards imo. I can see sets with Chase or Zaide at the 4 along with 3 other guards, but that depends on how good Jop is this season and how Ben progresses.
If they come in and force Shaka to play them, this will be a ridiculous team.
My gut says Amadou plays minutes like Ben last year.
—My gut says Ben plays minutes like Ben, or even Zaide plays minutes like Ben, moreso than Amadou.
I’d imagine that Al gets ~5 minutes or less at the 5 because of Oso, but every minute will be valuable because they might need 15ish or more the following season.
I also see Ben playing a lot of backup “5” this year if Al doesn’t develop quickly. I can see Ben getting more backup 5 minutes than Amadou.
Norman and Lowery have to take minutes from TKo, Kam, Stevie, Ross, and Sean. Tell me how.
— With elite defense, solid rebounding, and limiting careless mistakes. Won’t be easy, but they will both get minutes.
Also, Lowery can get them at the 4 I think, much like chase can, in 3 guard sets and in a scenario where Shaka values their defense more than Jops or Bens.
Tre has a tougher task with Kolek, Kam, Stevie and Sean but there are 3 it’s a great problem to have
I see it more as 2 groups
A) the “guard” or 1-3 position group
TyKo, Kam, Stevie, Sean, Tre
B) the “bigs” group or 4/5
Oso, Joplin, Ben, Amadou
Chase and Zaide are true switchables that can play in either group at the 2-4 spots.
Of the starters one of Stevie or Joplin will play the least. From the bench Chase will likely play the most because he can spell both of those guys and they will be the 4th and 5th starters in minutes.
Then Ben(4/5 position) Sean and Tre(1/2 position) Zaide(3/4 position) are in a battle for minutes at their positions and Al gets as many as he can be serviceable with at the 5.
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Start of year 3 of Shaka at MU and from my view this is the deepest and most talented team top to bottom I recall in my 40 years of following MU hoops.
I feel the trio of TKO, Kam and Oso can rival, and maybe collectively is better than the Diener, Wade, Rob Jackson trio. Go beyond those three and the depth of talent behind our Big 3 currently is substantially better than what our 2003 Final Four team had, and our Sweet 16/Elite 8 teams under Buzz.
Marquette currently 20 to 1 to win the National Championship...I'm going to lay 1k on them.
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Start of year 3 of Shaka at MU and from my view this is the deepest and most talented team top to bottom I recall in my 40 years of following MU hoops.
I feel the trio of TKO, Kam and Oso can rival, and maybe collectively is better than the Diener, Wade, Rob Jackson trio. Go beyond those three and the depth of talent behind our Big 3 currently is substantially better than what our 2003 Final Four team had, and our Sweet 16/Elite 8 teams under Buzz.
Marquette currently 20 to 1 to win the National Championship...I'm going to lay 1k on them.
Not sure about this top trio being better than any trio that included Wade, a transcendental talent who could singlehandedly take over games, but I totally agree about this season's depth being far superior to the 2003 depth. 20-to-1 ... I might have to throw a little down, too!
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This team has the potential to be exceptional.
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This team has the potential to be exceptional.
Y'all are making me nervous with this unbridled excitement.
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https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/tip-off-club-luncheon-oct-30-217123316/?page=1
Buried in this is a recounting at what Shaka said last night in Chicago.
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This team has the potential to be exceptional.
Yep. Need to make hay this year in the tournament. Final four/national championship has to be the the goal. Any thing less is selling this team short. Don’t get this type of experience/talent coming together that often. Have to take advantage of this year.
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Yep. Need to make hay this year in the tournament. Final four/national championship has to be the the goal. Any thing less is selling this team short. Don’t get this type of experience/talent coming together that often. Have to take advantage of this year.
I know I'm going to feel the same way, but I hate pinning a year's success on something as random as the tournament. But man, I really want to win games in April.
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https://247sports.com/college/marquette/board/104085/Contents/tip-off-club-luncheon-oct-30-217123316/?page=1
Buried in this is a recounting at what Shaka said last night in Chicago.
It says Shaka was recruiting in North Carolina before the event. Most likely Colt Langdon, 6-6 SF 2025.
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I know I'm going to feel the same way, but I hate pinning a year's success on something as random as the tournament. But man, I really want to win games in April.
Brew, I know there are many variables that can derail this season but going in I feel it could be a watershed year for the program. Something we’ve all been waiting for since the 70s. I am making sure I’m off for this years final four.
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Maybe it is the Lions fan in me, but I cannot start a season with the assumption there will be greatness at the end. I think this will be a very good team. But it only takes a thumb, or a broken foot, or a locked-in Syracuse zone, or an empty refrigerator, or a horse crap officiating crew to derail even very good teams.
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Assuming no injuries?
Can Tre take Sean's minutes?
Will Shaka want to go with 4 bigger guards? Lowery, Ross, Kolek, Jones/Stevie?
If they come in and force Shaka to play them, this will be a ridiculous team.
My gut says Amadou plays minutes like Ben last year.
Norman and Lowery have to take minutes from TKo, Kam, Stevie, Ross, and Sean. Tell me how.
I dont see any of the rotation players from last year minutes changing . They are too talented and cohesive to take off the floor.
Healthy sophomores will soak up quite a bit of Omax minutes .
Freshman who hustle on defense will each get 4 minute runs . If there are injuries , freshman will get some of those minutes
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I dont see any of the rotation players from last year minutes changing . They are too talented and cohesive to take off the floor.
Healthy sophomores will soak up quite a bit of Omax minutes .
Freshman who hustle on defense will each get 4 minute runs . If there are injuries , freshman will get some of those minutes
Jop takes some of OMax. Stevie will need to fight
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Maybe it is the Lions fan in me, but I cannot start a season with the assumption there will be greatness at the end. I think this will be a very good team. But it only takes a thumb, or a broken foot, or a locked-in Syracuse zone, or an empty refrigerator, or a horse crap officiating crew to derail even very good teams.
This, idk what the thumb reference is but I've been burned before by very very good teams not making it to the next step
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Kolek's thumb injury.
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Kolek's thumb injury.
His psyche seemed as bruised as him thumb.
One more year of seasoning should help with both.
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His psyche seemed as bruised as him thumb.
One more year of seasoning should help with both.
Put tons of seasoning on a crapshoot, it’ll still be a crapshoot.
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I dont see any of the rotation players from last year minutes changing . They are too talented and cohesive to take off the floor.
Our best hope for getting the new guys minutes is that our leaders are so dominant we rack up big leads a lot and can let them rest.
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Our best hope for getting the new guys minutes is that our leaders are so dominant we rack up big leads a lot and can let them rest.
…I’m hoping our walk-ons get a nice run in Madison this year
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Assuming no injuries?
Can Tre take Sean's minutes?
Will Shaka want to go with 4 bigger guards? Lowery, Ross, Kolek, Jones/Stevie?
If they come in and force Shaka to play them, this will be a ridiculous team.
My gut says Amadou plays minutes like Ben last year.
Norman and Lowery have to take minutes from TKo, Kam, Stevie, Ross, and Sean. Tell me how.
Nobody is taking Sean's minutes. He's just way too good defensively. I expect his role to remain the exact same. 10-12 minutes of all out in your face defense. Anything else he brings offensively is a bonus.
4 guard lineups will allow minutes to be distributed. OMax near 30 minutes are up for grabs. Jop will get the first crack from the opening tip but nothing is guaranteed after that.
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John Fanta in Milwaukee today. Stevie and Tyler talking about National Championship goal. Shaka praises Joplin and Sean Jones. Tidbits so far:
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709582965955555467?t=oR10skOZnWsiFx_q2afk5g&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709582965955555467?t=oR10skOZnWsiFx_q2afk5g&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709590945098772835?t=Iuo1behV_omFJqFtJkzq8g&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709590945098772835?t=Iuo1behV_omFJqFtJkzq8g&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709602520740278299?t=PIdAiZ91SQ5u_bUzUNtksw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709602520740278299?t=PIdAiZ91SQ5u_bUzUNtksw&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709604329575878929?t=Flb39Z4sYh30m1etMSKT-Q&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709604329575878929?t=Flb39Z4sYh30m1etMSKT-Q&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709630377608790168?t=a3HBC4ddYK0f5F2S72Y-FQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709630377608790168?t=a3HBC4ddYK0f5F2S72Y-FQ&s=19)
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Nobody is taking Sean's minutes.
Minutes? Probably not. I agree that he will end up around the same 10mpg that he had last year.
Spot on the depth chart? That will belong to Mr. Norman methinks.
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Minutes? Probably not. I agree that he will end up around the same 10mpg that he had last year.
Spot on the depth chart? That will belong to Mr. Norman methinks.
Completely agree with this. Tre has all the tools to be an All Big-East level point guard and the coaching staff seems to believe the same.
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More from Kolek and Kam Jones:
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709632875807559921?t=vsID_XS41RqYIJMltltOkA&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709632875807559921?t=vsID_XS41RqYIJMltltOkA&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709638435298808242?t=w5lodXjSidF3LvUp21LBnQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709638435298808242?t=w5lodXjSidF3LvUp21LBnQ&s=19)
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Completely agree with this. Tre has all the tools to be an All Big-East level point guard and the coaching staff seems to believe the same.
Maybe so, but Sean's role is important and it will be unchanged leaving minutes for others.
Bold Prediction: Zaide Lowery vaults ahead of Chase Ross in the NBA Convo. Chase will still get NBA talk, but Zaide will be the talk of this roster.
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Bold Prediction: Zaide Lowery vaults ahead of Chase Ross in the NBA Convo. Chase will still get NBA talk, but Zaide will be the talk of this roster.
Less bold prediction, maybe some day Lowery will get NBA talk but never at the expense of Chase "buy stock immediately" Ross
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Less bold prediction, maybe some day Lowery will get NBA talk but never at the expense of Chase "buy stock immediately" Ross
What a great problem to have.
Fanta's quote of Shaka on Jop has me VERY high on the season from a "he's solidified his starting role and the shot looks great" perspective.
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Less bold prediction, maybe some day Lowery will get NBA talk but never at the expense of Chase "buy stock immediately" Ross
+1
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https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1709689046455226435?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
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https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1709689046455226435?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Fanta’s Twitter account has me ready for some $15 beers at Fiserv!
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https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1709689046455226435?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
LFG!!!!!!
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https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1709689046455226435?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
Love it! Can’t believe we are only a month away. Should be fun!
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https://twitter.com/john_fanta/status/1709689046455226435?s=61&t=6XPB8f4sAKmJIzxgMcsCjw
All aboard the Jopwagon
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John Fanta in Milwaukee today. Stevie and Tyler talking about National Championship goal. Shaka praises Joplin and Sean Jones. Tidbits so far:
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709582965955555467?t=oR10skOZnWsiFx_q2afk5g&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709582965955555467?t=oR10skOZnWsiFx_q2afk5g&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709590945098772835?t=Iuo1behV_omFJqFtJkzq8g&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709590945098772835?t=Iuo1behV_omFJqFtJkzq8g&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709602520740278299?t=PIdAiZ91SQ5u_bUzUNtksw&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709602520740278299?t=PIdAiZ91SQ5u_bUzUNtksw&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709604329575878929?t=Flb39Z4sYh30m1etMSKT-Q&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709604329575878929?t=Flb39Z4sYh30m1etMSKT-Q&s=19)
https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709630377608790168?t=a3HBC4ddYK0f5F2S72Y-FQ&s=19 (https://twitter.com/John_Fanta/status/1709630377608790168?t=a3HBC4ddYK0f5F2S72Y-FQ&s=19)
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Fanta just picked Creighton as his big east champs but called us a likely top 5 team and winners of the Big East... man I love his content but he flips so hard on predictions.
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Fanta just picked Creighton as his big east champs but called us a likely top 5 team and winners of the Big East... man I love his content but he flips so hard on predictions.
Fanta is by and large a Big East hype man.
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I go into a mini depression every year when the Brewers are done.
I'm love the BrewCrew and Marquette Hoops, enjoy the Packers, couldn't care less about the NBA except to see Marquette guys succeed.
All that to say I'm fully invested into this season. I'd like to hope we get this expectation of a consistent winner, but this team is a real title contender. So...let's win the title!
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I go into a mini depression every year when the Brewers are done.
I'm love the BrewCrew and Marquette Hoops, enjoy the Packers, couldn't care less about the NBA except to see Marquette guys succeed.
All that to say I'm fully invested into this season. I'd like to hope we get this expectation of a consistent winner, but this team is a real title contender. So...let's win the title!
You could be my twin bŕother.
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I go into a mini depression every year when the Brewers are done.
I'm love the BrewCrew and Marquette Hoops, enjoy the Packers, couldn't care less about the NBA except to see Marquette guys succeed.
All that to say I'm fully invested into this season. I'd like to hope we get this expectation of a consistent winner, but this team is a real title contender. So...let's win the title!
Depression is definitely warranted after that exit. Ugly.
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Depression is definitely warranted after that exit. Ugly.
In the perfect world for a baseball fan and college basketball fan your team wins or plays in the World Series and basketball starts up immediately thereafter (within days). Then your team goes to the final four or wins a championship and opening day is usually that weekend. A never ending year round loop of perfection.
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In the perfect world for a baseball fan and college basketball fan your team wins or plays in the World Series and basketball starts up immediately thereafter (within days). Then your team goes to the final four or wins a championship and opening day is usually that weekend. A never ending year round loop of perfection.
Oh how sweet it would be..
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On his list of college basketball's 25 "most intriguing players" for the upcoming season, The Athletic's Brian Hamilton says:
22. David Joplin, Marquette
Shaka Smart’s crew finished with the seventh-most efficient offense in the country last year. Its starting five, specifically, was the fifth-most efficient lineup anywhere, per Evan Miyakawa’s ratings. The one guy now missing from that group is Olivier-Maxence Prosper, who wound up being a first-round NBA Draft pick. The guy expected to replace him, the 6-foot-8 Joplin, was the Big East’s Sixth Man of the Year. Seems like an easy, seamless, logical transition … which guarantees nothing in terms of results. Chemistry can be weird, and Marquette again will be as good as its offensive flow. Joplin is a bit more of a floor-spacer as a near-40 percent 3-point shooter, maybe a slightly better ball-mover and pretty much an even trade as a rebounder. He’s not a Prosper clone, and that’s fine. Coaches are paid to find ways to maximize the nuances in every player’s game. But this is a preseason top-10 team that won 29 games last season. It’s not a small-stakes adjustment for Joplin and the rest.[/i]
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I except that there will be gnashing of teeth here regardless of results.
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I except that there will be gnashing of teeth here regardless of results.
Nah, there is still a chance MU goes 40-0, unscored upon, with shooting like the early part of Pleasantville.
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I except that there will be gnashing of teeth here regardless of results.
Dentures
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Marquette shot the fewest mid-range shots of any team last year.
They also had the shortest distance from the basket on those shots.
I expect we will see something similar this season as well
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Ben Steele with an update on Ben Gold.
Marquette's Ben Gold learned how to fight for his role from his older brothers in New Zealand (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/10/17/marquettes-ben-gold-learned-basketball-from-brothers-in-new-zealand/71207904007/)
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Rosthein was at MU today and says Sean Jones is much improved, Tre Norman fits the program and will fight for minutes, and Chase Ross would be a candidate for National 6th Man of the Year if they had that award.
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Rosthein was at MU today and says Sean Jones is much improved, Tre Norman fits the program and will fight for minutes, and Chase Ross would be a candidate for National 6th Man of the Year if they had that award.
The loves his job. I’ll say that for him.
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The Athletic's Sam Vecenie picks Oso #8 on his list of top-20 college bigs:
8. Oso Ighodaro | 6-10 big | senior | Marquette
It’s pretty hard for me not to be enthusiastic about Ighodaro, who is probably my favorite player returning to college hoops this season. What he brings to the court exceeds his stats, which look a bit pedestrian at 11.4 points, 5.9 rebounds and 3.3 assists per game. Why? First and foremost, if he’s not the best passing big in the country, he’s certainly among the handful who can claim the title. Marquette runs a significant amount of its offense through Ighodaro at the high post, asking him to make decisions out of dribble-handoffs and short-rolls in partnership with Tyler Kolek. He’s a tremendous screener, and the level to which that quick-trigger decision-making and rapid ball movement adds to the offense is significant. Then on top of it, he’s one of the most efficient finishers at the rim in the country. He made 66 percent of his attempts last season. Basically, Ighodaro doesn’t make bad decisions, and he’s extremely damaging when involved in the offense.
I also think Ighodaro generally does a solid job holding up on defense by being in the right place at the right time, and using his length to contest on the interior when necessary. He also can move his feet in space and play in a few different ball-screen coverages. The big leap for — if one comes this season — will be as a rebounder, as that’s the one place that Marquette generally could get hit a season ago. That’s the reason he doesn’t break into that top group, more than any other. But give me everything else that he brings to the table as an offensive initiator, a sharp defender, and a great finisher. You can win games in a big way with Ighodaro as your center.
Vencenie's first seven: Edey, Filipowski, Kalkbrenner, Dickinson, Clingan, Bacot, Ballo.
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Vencenie's first seven: Edey, Filipowski, Kalkbrenner, Dickinson, Clingan, Bacot, Ballo.
And we have a chance to see 4 of the top 5 this regular season. Two of them twice!
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Maybe three or even four times.
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Maybe three or even four times.
Marquette has never played UW in the NCAA Tournament and (to my knowledge) have never played the same team 4 times in 1 season.
My bold prediction is that one of those 2 things is no longer true after this season.
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Kalkbrenner and Clingan, every opportunity to see three times. Big East tourney. If all three teams are as food as projected, there is a legit chance to see one of them a 4th time. Final 4.
To be fair, the point of contention is '4 of the top 5', and I did not specifically say 'and two of them 3 or 4 times' which is how it went in my head but not to my fingers.
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Marquette has never played UW in the NCAA Tournament and (to my knowledge) have never played the same team 4 times in 1 season.
My bold prediction is that one of those 2 things is no longer true after this season.
It would have to be the second thing, because Marquette won’t be playing in the NIT.
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It would have to be the second thing, because Marquette won’t be playing in the NIT.
Neither will UW. They will both be Top 15 teams.
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The entire season for many rests on what occurs between March 21 -- April 1, 2024.
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A few MU Opponents in action tonight
Colorado beats Texas, 87-78, in secret scrimmage, source told @TheMessenger.
KJ Simpson: 21 pts, 6 reb, 6 ast
J’Vonne Hadley: 20 pts, 12 reb
Tristan da Silva: 18 pts
Cody Williams: 8 pts, 7 rebounds, 3 ast
Dillon Mitchell: 22 pts
Max Abmas: 12 pts (4-17 FG), 5 ast
Tyrese Hunter: 18 pts
In a scrimmage today, @BadgerMBB won 2 of 3 periods vs. Northern Iowa
Double-Digit Scorers:
• AJ Storr - 18 points
• Connor Essegian - 13 points
• Steven Crowl - 11 points
• Tyler Wahl - 10 points
• Markus Ilver - 10 points
UNI picked 2nd in MVC preseason poll
#Pitt beat Georgetown 78-64 in a scrimmage today.
STAT LEADERS:
Leggett: 20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists.
Carrington: 16 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists.
Georgetown F Ish Massoud suffered a hand injury during today’s scrimmage against Pitt and is expected to get an X-ray soon to determine the extent of the injury.
The Johnnies win a thriller in double OT
Final → 89-78 over Rutgers
Nahiem Alleyne tallied some incredible overtime minutes, finishing with 19 PTS, 4 triples and 2 steals
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A few MU Opponents in action tonight
Colorado beats Texas, 87-78, in secret scrimmage, source told @TheMessenger.
KJ Simpson: 21 pts, 6 reb, 6 ast
J’Vonne Hadley: 20 pts, 12 reb
Tristan da Silva: 18 pts
Cody Williams: 8 pts, 7 rebounds, 3 ast
Dillon Mitchell: 22 pts
Max Abmas: 12 pts (4-17 FG), 5 ast
Tyrese Hunter: 18 pts
In a scrimmage today, @BadgerMBB won 2 of 3 periods vs. Northern Iowa
Double-Digit Scorers:
• AJ Storr - 18 points
• Connor Essegian - 13 points
• Steven Crowl - 11 points
• Tyler Wahl - 10 points
• Markus Ilver - 10 points
UNI picked 2nd in MVC preseason poll
#Pitt beat Georgetown 78-64 in a scrimmage today.
STAT LEADERS:
Leggett: 20 points, 5 rebounds, 5 assists.
Carrington: 16 points, 3 rebounds, 5 assists.
Georgetown F Ish Massoud suffered a hand injury during today’s scrimmage against Pitt and is expected to get an X-ray soon to determine the extent of the injury.
The Johnnies win a thriller in double OT
Final → 89-78 over Rutgers
Nahiem Alleyne tallied some incredible overtime minutes, finishing with 19 PTS, 4 triples and 2 steals
These results just cost MU a seed line.
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Neither will UW. They will both be Top 15 teams.
Enjoy your Badgers then!
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Nope, but hope you enjoy your badger season tickets.
Neither will UW. They will both be Top 15 teams.
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You guys are forgetting. Wisconsin just always gets it done.
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Neither will UW. They will both be Top 15 teams.
better dead, than RED
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Neither will UW. They will both be Top 15 teams.
Pathetic
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Very good article, I will let Herman declare excellent or not
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/beasts-of-the-big-east-shaka-smart-marquette-poised-for-special-season-163435904.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/beasts-of-the-big-east-shaka-smart-marquette-poised-for-special-season-163435904.html)
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Herman, under his Dodds name of Gus Ganakas, called for a .500 season.
His argument being tough OOC schedule and the Big East being improved.
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Herman, under his Dodds name of Gus Ganakas, called for a .500 season.
His argument being tough OOC schedule and the Big East being improved.
Considering he’s on campus for recruiting visits, maybe he’s been there for practices, too?
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Very good article, I will let Herman declare excellent or not
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/beasts-of-the-big-east-shaka-smart-marquette-poised-for-special-season-163435904.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/beasts-of-the-big-east-shaka-smart-marquette-poised-for-special-season-163435904.html)
Excellent article. I ate at Carmines on the Upper West side many times back in the day.
MU is a Whole Is Greater Than The Sum Of The Parts type team. Keys to another successful season are no injuries and unselfish play.
Very pumped up to watch our guys face the challenges this year .
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Excellent article. I ate at Carmines on the Upper West side many times back in the day.
MU is a Whole Is Greater Than The Sum Of The Parts type team. Keys to another successful season are no injuries and unselfish play.
Very pumped up to watch our guys face the challenges this year .
Gus-
Let’s get your prediction for the season
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Herman, under his Dodds name of Gus Ganakas, called for a .500 season.
His argument being tough OOC schedule and the Big East being improved.
To me it sounds like a Greek guy to me
Zhto
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Very good article, I will let Herman declare excellent or not
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/beasts-of-the-big-east-shaka-smart-marquette-poised-for-special-season-163435904.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/beasts-of-the-big-east-shaka-smart-marquette-poised-for-special-season-163435904.html)
Thanks for posting. I especially liked this:
“We’re all people,” Smart said. “The experiences that guys have are largely driven by relationships and relationships are largely driven by how we make each other feel. That’s something that we really put a lot of time and energy into at Marquette.”
I might have to steal that and do a version of it for one of the talks I give to my team. Obviously will credit Shaka.
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Amen to that, and speaking from recent experience, relationships is something that totally makes or breaks a team even in real life...
Thanks for posting. I especially liked this:
“We’re all people,” Smart said. “The experiences that guys have are largely driven by relationships and relationships are largely driven by how we make each other feel. That’s something that we really put a lot of time and energy into at Marquette.”
I might have to steal that and do a version of it for one of the talks I give to my team. Obviously will credit Shaka.
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Highly respected NCAA basketball journalist glows over David Joplin
https://x.com/JonRothstein/status/1719353536826552686?s=20
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Amen to that, and speaking from recent experience, relationships is something that totally makes or breaks a team even in real life...
That…and talent.
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Illinois did beat Kansas in an exhibition (not a scrimmage), so that may be a tougher game than UCLA.
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Highly respected NCAA basketball journalist glows over David Joplin
https://x.com/JonRothstein/status/1719353536826552686?s=20
I see lots of SOTGs in Jop’s future
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Illinois did beat Kansas in an exhibition (not a scrimmage), so that may be a tougher game than UCLA.
Illinois on its home floor is tougher than UCLA on neutral floor. First true road game of the year is always tough.
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None.
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The Athletic's Sam Vecenie looks at college basketball's top wings, including ...
9. Kam Jones | 6-5 wing | junior | Marquette
Jones is just an extremely reliable floor-spacer and scorer. The 6-foot-5 guard averaged 15.1 points per game last season while getting up nearly eight 3-point attempts per game. The thing you can count on more than anything else is that Jones is going to find open 3s. He takes them directly off the hop, and if you give him even a sliver of space, you can count on that thing getting fired toward the rim with a real shot of going in. Everything he does just has this aesthetically beautiful rhythm to it. He moves exceptionally well off the ball and can get the shot up from any angle or footwork if you give him a window. He was second-team All-Big East and certainly is in the mix to take that next leap to first-team in 2023-24. It’s very likely he’ll be the leading scorer on a top-10 team in the country this season, and he’s gotten better in each of his first two seasons.
His top 8:
Bryce Hopkins ... Tristan da Silva ... Terrence Shannon Jr. ... Justin Moore, Baylor Scheierman ... Dillon Jones ... Emanuel Miller ... Kevin McCullar Jr.
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Not sure where to put this and I believe it was pretty much expected, but xusandy on the holyland site (with no link or other supporting data) wrote yesterday that "X has apparently lost both Freemantle and Hunter for the entire season".
I would not write off any team coached by Miller though.
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Not sure where to put this and I believe it was pretty much expected, but xusandy on the holyland site (with no link or other supporting data) wrote yesterday that "X has apparently lost both Freemantle and Hunter for the entire season".
I would not write off any team coached by Miller though.
Smh… bro…
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Not sure where to put this and I believe it was pretty much expected, but xusandy on the holyland site (with no link or other supporting data) wrote yesterday that "X has apparently lost both Freemantle and Hunter for the entire season".
I would not write off any team coached by Miller though.
Uh…you think Miller is a great coach? He’s OK but his teams are never better than their talent.
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Not sure where to put this and I believe it was pretty much expected, but xusandy on the holyland site (with no link or other supporting data) wrote yesterday that "X has apparently lost both Freemantle and Hunter for the entire season".
I would not write off any team coached by Miller though.
After reading this news, I’m officially writing off Xavier
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Freemantle and Hunter out for the season? That's been public since at least September.
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Ben Steele's latest:
Meet the man who is helping Marquette to mentally train for sky-high expectations (https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/marquette/2023/11/06/marquettes-shaka-smart-uses-russ-rausch-and-vision-pursue-with-team/71429381007/)