Bama/Oats/Miller

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I think we're talking about two different issues here.
As far as I can tell, nobody here has suggested that Miller shouldn't face some kind of university punishment, including being removed from the team.
But Sean and I are discussing the criminal law as it pertains to this situation. To prove something like accessory to murder, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Miller acted knowingly, i.e. he handed over the gun knowing it would be used to shoot someone. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt without some kind of admission from him or, maybe, a witness testifying Miller knew? A text that says someone "rl jus got fakin" isn't going to cut it. I'm not up on all the slang today, but I don't think you're going to convince a jury that "jus got fakin" means "I'm going to shoot someone."

As for the car blocking the victim's vehicle, Miller's side says he was parked there first and the victim pulled up behind his car, not vice versa.

Of course there's a difference between punishment via the law and the university.  What I'm saying is the hypothetical scenario Sean painted of himself giving a gun to someone else vs. Miller doing so based on my understanding of the details are very different, IMO. 

[LAZER]

If this is true this changes any perceived involvement by Miller. Also explains how he got there so fast after receiving a text which I was wondering about. If I am just on my couch and someone asks me to bring them something I don't get it and get there fast enough for them to still be angry.

the context of the gun already being in the car without Miller's knowledge and that he was already on his way to get Miles so there is even less grounds to charge him on. Earlier reports made it sound like Miller's intent was to bring the gun when this doesn't.

Miles asked for his gun and Miller drove his car with the gun to Miles. So it certainly seems like Miller knew the gun was in the car.

[MuggsyB]

If this is true this changes any perceived involvement by Miller. Also explains how he got there so fast after receiving a text which I was wondering about. If I am just on my couch and someone asks me to bring them something I don't get it and get there fast enough for them to still be angry.

the context of the gun already being in the car without Miller's knowledge and that he was already on his way to get Miles so there is even less grounds to charge him on. Earlier reports made it sound like Miller's intent was to bring the gun when this doesn't.

Hmmmmmm.......

[Pakuni]

If this happened at Marquette, some type of punishment would have been done

Maybe.
Marquette hasn't always been the model of transparency and forthrightness when it comes to student-athletes committing potentially criminal acts.

[BallBoy]

Miles asked for his gun and Miller drove his car with the gun to Miles. So it certainly seems like Miller knew the gun was in the car.

Or Miller was already on his way and Miles texted him to bring it and since he was driving he didn't see the text or fully understand the ask or didn't know that it was in his car. Miles then goes to the back seat and gets it.  Miller didn't hand it to him and didnt "get it" and bring it to him.

Miles also texted him earlier asking for Miller to come and get him. miller said he couldn't but would later.  This indicates Miller was already on the way when he gets the text. Also says Miller wasn't blocking the street so it doesn't appear that he was in on the plan.

[LAZER]

Or Miller was already on his way and Miles texted him to bring it and since he was driving he didn't see the text or fully understand the ask or didn't know that it was in his car. Miles then goes to the back seat and gets it.  Miller didn't hand it to him and didnt "get it" and bring it to him.

Miles also texted him earlier asking for Miller to come and get him. miller said he couldn't but would later.  This indicates Miller was already on the way when he gets the text. Also says Miller wasn't blocking the street so it doesn't appear that he was in on the plan.

Brandon Miller would never text and drive!

[Jay Bee]

point plankn

[cheebs09]

Or Miller was already on his way and Miles texted him to bring it and since he was driving he didn't see the text or fully understand the ask or didn't know that it was in his car. Miles then goes to the back seat and gets it.  Miller didn't hand it to him and didnt "get it" and bring it to him.

Miles also texted him earlier asking for Miller to come and get him. miller said he couldn't but would later.  This indicates Miller was already on the way when he gets the text. Also says Miller wasn't blocking the street so it doesn't appear that he was in on the plan.

This isn't from an independent source though. It does sound like there's some video to corroborate or not.

[lostpassword]

Miles asked for his gun and Miller drove his car with the gun to Miles. So it certainly seems like Miller knew the gun was in the car.

Yep.  This statement is pretty clear that Miller:
(1) knew he had brought a gun to Miles*
(2) was present when gunfire erupted
(3) didn't report this to anyone until the police contacted him

That alone should have been reason enough to suspend as soon as AD/Oats became aware.

* The statement artfully mentions he never saw or handled the weapon but avoids saying he didn't know it was there.  In fact, it's pretty clear that he did know based on the reference to not knowing that illegal activity would occur with the weapon.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392?cxt=HHwWgMC9ye_8zJktAAAA

This is why freshmen shouldn't have cars on campus.

[Uncle Rico]

Riggghhhht. I am sure we all would snap to when a friend calls us to bring his gun to a bar/nightclub/restaurant

I would.  Read the constitution

[swoopem]

Yep.  This statement is pretty clear that Miller:
(1) knew he had brought a gun to Miles*
(2) was present when gunfire erupted
(3) didn't report this to anyone until the police contacted him

That alone should have been reason enough to suspend as soon as AD/Oats became aware.

* The statement artfully mentions he never saw or handled the weapon but avoids saying he didn't know it was there.  In fact, it's pretty clear that he did know based on the reference to not knowing that illegal activity would occur with the weapon.

Didn't the text exchange have Miller responding to the guy who asked for the gun saying "the heat is in the hat and there's one in the head (meaning chamber)" or something like that? I thought that's what I read yesterday. If that's the case he not only knew about the gun but knew it was loaded.

I would think by knowingly bringing a loaded gun somewhere you'd think sh!t was about to go down and you couldn't really play the "I didn't know" card

[BallBoy]

Brandon Miller would never text and drive!

I know you are trying really hard because he is an Alabama guy but look at the timeline and try to be impartial.

Text was sent to Miller at 1:40 and the dispatch came into the police at 1:45. It seems highly implausible that Miller was doing something, got the text, got back into his car, got back over to Miles, shots fired, call to the police in under 5 minutes.  There hasn't been any indication that Miller acknowledged or responded he would be right there with the gun ie "Got it BRT" which would be super easy to text while driving.

Seems more likely Miller was already driving to the scene with the intent of picking up his friend because he previously got the text requesting to be picked up and was already nearby when the text about the gun comes in and Miles has enough time to get it, get it to Davis to then shoot someone. 

The part of the release that indicates lack of knowledge of the gun in the car was it being state "it is our understanding it was concealed under clothes."  This indicates Miller didn't know that it was there; however; the "it is our understanding" is lawyer speak for our client told us and we don't know for sure. The knowledge of whether the gun was in the car becomes somewhat moot with the intent to pick up a friend. It happens all too fast for the intent to be bring the gun.

I also acknowledge that this is Miller's lawyer who isn't going to be impartial but there is also video evidence which the police have seen and indicates that Miller shouldn't be charged.

[Jockey]

Nate Oats lost all his credibility over this, Miller should be released from Alabama. Not sure why he has a gun on campus, then give it to someone else is egregious.  What did the dude expect?

Because guns are good. They prevent crime. Miller was just trying to keep Alabama safe.

[BallBoy]

Didn't the text exchange have Miller responding to the guy who asked for the gun saying "the heat is in the hat and there's one in the head (meaning chamber)" or something like that? I thought that's what I read yesterday. If that's the case he not only knew about the gun but knew it was loaded.

I would think by knowingly bringing a loaded gun somewhere you'd think sh!t was about to go down and you couldn't really play the "I didn't know" card

No. The text to Miller was "bring my joint guy fakin". Miles, owner of the gun and ex-teammate, gets it and as he is handing it to Davis is overheard saying or testified to saying heat is in the hat and there's one in the head.

[swoopem]

No. The text to Miller was "bring my joint guy fakin". Miles, owner of the gun and ex-teammate, gets it and as he is handing it to Davis is overheard saying or testified to saying heat is in the hat and there's one in the head.

Got it. That makes more sense for Miller saying he didn't know

[mug644]

point plankn

+1 for the blast from the past!

[lostpassword]

.....the release that indicates lack of knowledge of the gun in the car was it being state "it is our understanding it was concealed under clothes."  This indicates Miller didn't know that it was there......

This is not what it says.  It says he never saw or handled the gun.  It never says he didn't know it was there which is a pretty glaring omission if in fact he didn't know.  The comment about it being under clothes is all misdirection.

----
Quote 1:
Brandon never saw the handgun nor handled it. Further, it is our understanding that the weapon was concelaed under some clothing in the back seat of his car".
----
Quote 2:
Brandon never touched the gun, was not involved in its exchange to Mr. Davis in any way, and never knew that illegal activity involving the gun would occur.
----

If he didn't know the gun was there, come out on record and say that.  He has a pretty crummy lawyer writing his statement if he didn't know it was there.  My guess is it is already on record that he knew about the gun.

[JWags85]

I've changed my opinion on the case a bit. I admit to originally thinking it was his weapon.  But reading the statements and information released in the last day or two, even cutting through the CYA, I'm more inclined to believe he wasn't an active accessory to it all.  Especially now that the using his car to block the victims car has been debunked.

There is some stupidity and some putting of himself in a bad situation, but not to the "shut the team down for the year" level.

[Newsdreams]

I would.  Read the constitution

The whole country is a well regulated militia

[WhiteTrash]

I've changed my opinion on the case a bit. I admit to originally thinking it was his weapon.  But reading the statements and information released in the last day or two, even cutting through the CYA, I'm more inclined to believe he wasn't an active accessory to it all.  Especially now that the using his car to block the victims car has been debunked.

There is some stupidity and some putting of himself in a bad situation, but not to the "shut the team down for the year" level.

I agree based upon the attorney's statement.

I also take into account the statment is not given under oath or as official court statement. Simply relaying all or some of the infomation given to him. He is bound to say and do anything to portray his client in the best light possible.

[BallBoy]

This is not what it says.  It says he never saw or handled the gun.  It never says he didn't know it was there which is a pretty glaring omission if in fact he didn't know.  The comment about it being under clothes is all misdirection.

----
Quote 1:
Brandon never saw the handgun nor handled it. Further, it is our understanding that the weapon was concelaed under some clothing in the back seat of his car".
----
Quote 2:
Brandon never touched the gun, was not involved in its exchange to Mr. Davis in any way, and never knew that illegal activity involving the gun would occur.
----

If he didn't know the gun was there, come out on record and say that.  He has a pretty crummy lawyer writing his statement if he didn't know it was there.  My guess is it is already on record that he knew about the gun.

Indicates: suggest as a desirable or necessary course of action. 

If the guy never saw it, never touched it, it was concealed, didn't know it was going to be used the lawyer is suggesting a lack of knowledge. Whether he knew at the time he arrived that Miles had requested his gun has not been shown.  It has been shown that Miller was there to pick them up. The only way he could have known under the above conditions is if Miles stated "I am leaving my gun in your car"

Also not shown is if Miller gave Miles and Davis a ride home which could be seen as a getaway and knowledge that something was going to happen. If Miller was waiting the intent of helping them getaway after their crime it would suggest he knew what was going to happen. If he drove off without them it would suggest he didn't know.  At this point Davis has been shot so hard to explain why you drove off with a guy involved in a shooting and is bleeding in your car and you never notified the police. 

people are talking about suspending the player permanently, firing his coach, ending his teams season for something which has not been shown to involve the team, coach or whether the player did anything with intent. This isn't like the Baylor situation where after the shooting the coach tried to hide or obfuscate his illegal payments to the player by claiming he was a drug dealer.

as I mentioned in my first post, I would suspend him for being stupid for a few games and if more information comes out then take further action but as of right now. 

More importantly this shouldn't be getting attention because of basketball but a young person getting killed is too common place.

[Herman Cain]

You have a point.

Maybe he thought he was going hunting.

You just won the internet .

[Pakuni]

South Carolina fans chanting "Lock him up" while Miller shoots free throws.
If you didn't think Nate Oats was a turd before, putting Miller on the court tonight should seal the deal.

[Galway Eagle]

South Carolina fans chanting "Lock him up" while Miller shoots free throws.
If you didn't think Nate Oats was a turd before, putting Miller on the court tonight should seal the deal.

Shocked it's that tame. They could be making finger guns or chanting murderer to him. Obviously wouldn't be accurate (given what we know) but certainly screw with an 18yr old who should have a guilty conscience