Bama/Oats/Miller

[martyconlonontherun]

First, it's bizarre to me that there is nothing Miller can be charged with simply because he didn't own the gun and it was a hockey assist in terms of who it handed to.  He bears responsibility for someone's death. 

I'm speaking more towards the fact that Miller isn't even facing any consequences from Alabama.  He shouldn't play another minute for that team.

Legally, I could see enough deniablity....Didn't know what the gun would be used for (protection v attack), he didn't mean to box anyone in, didn't know the whole situation, not a crime to bring someone their property, etc.

But, my god, whatever happened to "it is a privilege, not a right, to wear the uniform" talk. The only reason I think he wasn't suspended is you can't just suspend him for being involved in a murder. It was either cut him or sweep it under the rug. You can't exactly say "5 games feels about right since this woman died as a result of his actions"

[Pakuni]

If you are asked to bring someone a gun, you don't think you have any idea what's going to happen once you bring them the gun?

I think there's an inference to be had there, but can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt what was going on inside Miller's head? I think a case like this would require some kind of admission that Miller knew or had reason to believe the gun would be used for a crime.

[warriorchick]

I think there's an inference to be had there, but can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt what was going on inside Miller's head? I think a case like this would require some kind of admission that Miller knew or had reason to believe the gun would be used for a crime.

You have a point.

Maybe he thought he was going hunting.

[MuggsyB]

You have a point.

Maybe he thought he was going hunting.

LOL.

[jficke13]

Agree with you two, but attorney/client privilege may prevent anything info to the public. I almost applied for MU Law School after graduating many decades ago and, with 20/20 hindsight, probably should have. One reason is that I totally get the concept that the law/court system simply isn't necessarily fair/right, according to citizens honestly questioning the rulings. Kudos to DA's who do what they can, but they cannot rewrite the laws that they have to deal with.

my dude, it's always a good decision not to go to law school

[LAZER]

You have a point.

Maybe he thought he was going hunting.

"I need my joint a n****r rl jus got fakin" was the text Miles sent to Miller. I understand that this still might not be enough for legal charges, but from a University disciplinary standpoint, I think it's pretty clear that Miller knew his buddy was in some type of altercation and wanted his gun. Not quite just returning a possession to his pal.

[lawdog77]

I see a civil suit coming a few days after draft day. If it were my family member killed, I would do that.

[BallBoy]

If you are asked to bring someone a gun, you don't think you have any idea what's going to happen once you bring them the gun?

From a criminal standpoint, it would be hard to prove which is why they don't know what they can charge him with.  if they could show he knew why the guy was asking for the gun then I think we would have a different story.

I have friends who have guns if they asked me to bring them it I wouldn't assume they were going to shoot someone because my friends don't shoot people.  Maybe they want to show it off, maybe they want to sell it, maybe they forgot it and carry frequently.  All plausible reasons beyond a shadow of doubt.

From a Civil perspective, that is a different story. I wouldn't be surprised if after signing a large NBA contract he gets sued.

[#UnleashSean]

First, it's bizarre to me that there is nothing Miller can be charged with simply because he didn't own the gun and it was a hockey assist in terms of who it handed to.  He bears responsibility for someone's death. 

I'm speaking more towards the fact that Miller isn't even facing any consequences from Alabama.  He shouldn't play another minute for that team.

I currently have someone elses 30-06 in my possession. If they asked me to bring it to them and when I delivered it and they turned around and shot someone, I should face consequences? What exactly did I do that was illegal?

Those are the facts that we know, and you are attempting to punish him based off those facts.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I currently have someone elses 30-06 in my possession. If they asked me to bring it to them and when I delivered it and they turned around and shot someone, I should face consequences? What exactly did I do that was illegal?

Those are the facts that we know, and you are attempting to punish him based off those facts.

I'm not advocating for Miller to be charged as an accessory, but did you actually read the text message?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I currently have someone elses 30-06 in my possession. If they asked me to bring it to them and when I delivered it and they turned around and shot someone, I should face consequences? What exactly did I do that was illegal?

Those are the facts that we know, and you are attempting to punish him based off those facts.

Strange you didn't mention the text he received, the additional context, the fact that his car was potentially blocking in the vehicle the victim was in. 

Yeah, I don't think someone should have the privilege of playing D1 basketball after his actions and the aftermath. 

[MuggsyB]

Strange you didn't mention the text he received, the additional context, the fact that his car was potentially blocking in the vehicle the victim was in. 

Yeah, I don't think someone should have the privilege of playing D1 basketball after his actions and the aftermath.

Or coaching D1 basketball after knowing about this for a month.

[JakeBarnes]

I currently have someone elses 30-06 in my possession. If they asked me to bring it to them and when I delivered it and they turned around and shot someone, I should face consequences? What exactly did I do that was illegal?

Those are the facts that we know, and you are attempting to punish him based off those facts.

Now what if they texted you "bring me my gun, my wife is acting up again and I'm tired of her"

[willie warrior]

I think there's an inference to be had there, but can you prove beyond a reasonable doubt what was going on inside Miller's head? I think a case like this would require some kind of admission that Miller knew or had reason to believe the gun would be used for a crime.

Riggghhhht. I am sure we all would snap to when a friend calls us to bring his gun to a bar/nightclub/restaurant

[The Sultan]

Now what if they texted you "bring me my gun, my wife is acting up again and I'm tired of her"

But again, the guy who texted him wasn't the shooter. Which is why he isn't facing legal consequences.

But there is no way he should be playing for Alabama. I actually think the entire team should be done for the year.

[BCHoopster]

Nate Oats lost all his credibility over this, Miller should be released from Alabama. Not sure why he has a gun on campus, then give it to someone else is egregious.  What did the dude expect?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Not sure why you're all assuming he was told to bring the gun. Isn't it possible he was told to bring a bag or jacket or box, which contained a gun? Or maybe it was in the car? Lots of speculation here.

If the authorities have decided he shouldn't be charged, he was probably unaware of what he was getting into.

[The Sultan]

nm

[Its DJOver]

https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392?cxt=HHwWgMC9ye_8zJktAAAA

[Pakuni]

Strange you didn't mention the text he received, the additional context, the fact that his car was potentially blocking in the vehicle the victim was in. 

Yeah, I don't think someone should have the privilege of playing D1 basketball after his actions and the aftermath.

I think we're talking about two different issues here.
As far as I can tell, nobody here has suggested that Miller shouldn't face some kind of university punishment, including being removed from the team.
But Sean and I are discussing the criminal law as it pertains to this situation. To prove something like accessory to murder, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Miller acted knowingly, i.e. he handed over the gun knowing it would be used to shoot someone. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt without some kind of admission from him or, maybe, a witness testifying Miller knew? A text that says someone "rl jus got fakin" isn't going to cut it. I'm not up on all the slang today, but I don't think you're going to convince a jury that "jus got fakin" means "I'm going to shoot someone."

As for the car blocking the victim's vehicle, Miller's side says he was parked there first and the victim pulled up behind his car, not vice versa.

[LAZER]

Not sure why you're all assuming he was told to bring the gun. Isn't it possible he was told to bring a bag or jacket or box, which contained a gun? Or maybe it was in the car? Lots of speculation here.

If the authorities have decided he shouldn't be charged, he was probably unaware of what he was getting into.

Miles texted Miller to bring his gun. That's why we're making this assumption.

[panda]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5QOgLFFmTFw

nm

[marqfan22]

If this happened at Marquette, some type of punishment would have been done

I think we're talking about two different issues here.
As far as I can tell, nobody here has suggested that Miller shouldn't face some kind of university punishment, including being removed from the team.
But Sean and I are discussing the criminal law as it pertains to this situation. To prove something like accessory to murder, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Miller acted knowingly, i.e. he handed over the gun knowing it would be used to shoot someone. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt without some kind of admission from him or, maybe, a witness testifying Miller knew? A text that says someone "rl jus got fakin" isn't going to cut it. I'm not up on all the slang today, but I don't think you're going to convince a jury that "jus got fakin" means "I'm going to shoot someone."

As for the car blocking the victim's vehicle, Miller's side says he was parked there first and the victim pulled up behind his car, not vice versa.

[LAZER]

I think we're talking about two different issues here.
As far as I can tell, nobody here has suggested that Miller shouldn't face some kind of university punishment, including being removed from the team.
But Sean and I are discussing the criminal law as it pertains to this situation. To prove something like accessory to murder, you need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Miller acted knowingly, i.e. he handed over the gun knowing it would be used to shoot someone. How do you prove that beyond a reasonable doubt without some kind of admission from him or, maybe, a witness testifying Miller knew? A text that says someone "rl jus got fakin" isn't going to cut it. I'm not up on all the slang today, but I don't think you're going to convince a jury that "jus got fakin" means "I'm going to shoot someone."

As for the car blocking the victim's vehicle, Miller's side says he was parked there first and the victim pulled up behind his car, not vice versa.

I believe they have this all on surveillance from a bar.

[BallBoy]

https://twitter.com/JournoRyan/status/1628502011317563392?cxt=HHwWgMC9ye_8zJktAAAA

If this is true this changes any perceived involvement by Miller. Also explains how he got there so fast after receiving a text which I was wondering about. If I am just on my couch and someone asks me to bring them something I don't get it and get there fast enough for them to still be angry.

the context of the gun already being in the car without Miller's knowledge and that he was already on his way to get Miles so there is even less grounds to charge him on. Earlier reports made it sound like Miller's intent was to bring the gun when this doesn't.