EV's

[lawdog77]

Not all of us have 50K under our couch cushions.

He never said he bought a new car, just that the last used care he bought was 1997. To each his own.

[tower912]

They react poorly to being immersed in saltwater.  Huh.

Battery technology will advance and likely take car of this.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

[MU82]

It’s today’s Hummer … except uglier and less useful to haul stuff.

[GB Warrior]

Only Elon could create something that is a self-effacing status symbol

[4everwarriors]

It’s today’s Hummer … except uglier and less useful to haul stuff.

To each their own, but hummers are wonderful, hey?

[MU82]

From the NYT's DealBook newsletter:

Hertz shares fell sharply yesterday after the car rental company announced it would cull 20,000 electric vehicles from its lineup — about a third of its global fleet.

The decision is a stunning reversal: The company had doubled down on E.V.s just two years ago. It also raises wider questions about whether the E.V. market is decelerating and whether the wider energy transition has hit a road bump.

Hertz trumpeted its move into E.V.s, saying consumers were eager to avoid rising gasoline prices. In 2021 and 2022, it announced deals to buy 340,000 E.V.s from Tesla, Polestar and G.M., saying it would electrify a quarter of its fleet by the end of this year.

The company now says it will buy more internal-combustion engine vehicles, citing weaker demand and higher operating costs for E.V.s. Hertz partly blamed Tesla, saying the move by Elon Musk’s carmaker to cut prices by 30 percent last year had hit the cars’ resale value. It added that Tesla was less willing than other carmakers to give Hertz volume discounts on replacement parts.

The irony: Tesla has been widely credited with jump-starting the E.V. market, forcing legacy carmakers to play catch-up.

The E.V. market isn’t dead, but there are signs of strain. Jeremy Robb, senior director of economic and industry insights at Cox Automotive, told The Times that almost 1.2 million E.V.s were sold in the U.S. last year, and sales were up 40 percent in the last three months of 2023 from the same period in 2022. But the pace of growth is slowing and some carmakers are pulling back on expanding production.

Hertz is still planning to electrify its fleet, according to its C.E.O., Stephen Scherr — but it might take a bit longer. “Tesla is among the best-selling cars in America, but it’s not yet the best rental car,” he told The Times. “Those two have not converged as quickly as many people, including ourselves, thought. But they will,” he added.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

From the NYT's DealBook newsletter:

Hertz shares fell sharply yesterday after the car rental company announced it would cull 20,000 electric vehicles from its lineup — about a third of its global fleet.

The decision is a stunning reversal: The company had doubled down on E.V.s just two years ago. It also raises wider questions about whether the E.V. market is decelerating and whether the wider energy transition has hit a road bump.

Hertz trumpeted its move into E.V.s, saying consumers were eager to avoid rising gasoline prices. In 2021 and 2022, it announced deals to buy 340,000 E.V.s from Tesla, Polestar and G.M., saying it would electrify a quarter of its fleet by the end of this year.

The company now says it will buy more internal-combustion engine vehicles, citing weaker demand and higher operating costs for E.V.s. Hertz partly blamed Tesla, saying the move by Elon Musk’s carmaker to cut prices by 30 percent last year had hit the cars’ resale value. It added that Tesla was less willing than other carmakers to give Hertz volume discounts on replacement parts.

The irony: Tesla has been widely credited with jump-starting the E.V. market, forcing legacy carmakers to play catch-up.

The E.V. market isn’t dead, but there are signs of strain. Jeremy Robb, senior director of economic and industry insights at Cox Automotive, told The Times that almost 1.2 million E.V.s were sold in the U.S. last year, and sales were up 40 percent in the last three months of 2023 from the same period in 2022. But the pace of growth is slowing and some carmakers are pulling back on expanding production.

Hertz is still planning to electrify its fleet, according to its C.E.O., Stephen Scherr — but it might take a bit longer. “Tesla is among the best-selling cars in America, but it’s not yet the best rental car,” he told The Times. “Those two have not converged as quickly as many people, including ourselves, thought. But they will,” he added.

I've heard people get an EV for their Hertz rental but then they ran into the problem that their hotel did not have charging.  One person told me their hotel was listed as having charging, but it was like one unit and continuously occupied.   The same person said it's not an issue when I'm just visiting people around Chicago for a few days (for example) then I can get by without charging, but longer than that it becomes an issue to plan charging into the business trip.

[MU82]

I've heard people get an EV for their Hertz rental but then they ran into the problem that their hotel did not have charging.  One person told me their hotel was listed as having charging, but it was like one unit and continuously occupied.   The same person said it's not an issue when I'm just visiting people around Chicago for a few days (for example) then I can get by without charging, but longer than that it becomes an issue to plan charging into the business trip.

Yep. I've actually rented a Tesla for just the kind of short-term situation you describe and it went fine. We're going to Phoenix for a week and we'll be renting a regular ICE car; we'd probably be A-OK in an EV, but we simply don't want to have to worry about it.

[jesmu84]

More on Hertz

[Lennys Tap]

Just saw a report on NBC News with Lester Holt that said the mileage EVs get is routinely overstated and, under some conditions, by a lot. At 20 degrees or lower the real mileage is approximately 41% lower than advertised.

[jesmu84]

Just saw a report on NBC News with Lester Holt that said the mileage EVs get is routinely overstated and, under some conditions, by a lot. At 20 degrees or lower the real mileage is approximately 41% lower than advertised.

Yup. Common knowledge in the EV world.

My EV6 range is listed 264 miles.

In town (<50mph), warm weather (>50F) - 300ish miles
Highway (>65mph), warm weather - 250ish miles
In town, cold weather (<32F) - 250ish
Highway, cold weather - 200ish
 
Any significant wind will noticeably affect range, depending on direction of wind and driving.

Any amount/type of precipitation will decrease range.

Towing significantly decreases range.

Speeds over 75mph dramatically decrease range.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Yup. Common knowledge in the EV world.

My EV6 range is listed 264 miles.

In town (<50mph), warm weather (>50F) - 300ish miles
Highway (>65mph), warm weather - 250ish miles
In town, cold weather (<32F) - 250ish
Highway, cold weather - 200ish
 
Any significant wind will noticeably affect range, depending on direction of wind and driving.

Any amount/type of precipitation will decrease range.

Towing significantly decreases range.

Speeds over 75mph dramatically decrease range.

Soooooo, pretty much the same as an ICE vehicle then?

[Lennys Tap]

Soooooo, pretty much the same as an ICE vehicle then?

Plenty of gas stations, but (despite a billion +allocated) not enough charging stations. 3 minutes to fill up in all weather.  For a gas guzzler. An hour for an EV unless it’s really cold, then maybe much more. And 41% less mileage per full charge in cold weather? Not remotely the same. Soooo, dream on

[tower912]

I would get a home charger if I had an EV.   On the flip side, my block alone has had many people need jumps for their ICE vehicles this week.  Going to get worse on Friday night into Saturday.   Diesels need to be plugged in overnight in this weather, too.

Bitter cold snaps are bad for cars.   Then again, so are hurricanes.

[jesmu84]

Just saw a report on NBC News with Lester Holt that said the mileage EVs get is routinely overstated and, under some conditions, by a lot. At 20 degrees or lower the real mileage is approximately 41% lower than advertised.

ICE vehicles drop 20-30% of range in temps below 20F

[MU82]

My daughter and son-in-law have a Tesla Model X. 99% of the time, they charge it at home. The only time they use charging stations is when they take a trip.

They live near us in Charlotte so don't experience extreme cold very often, but it does get chilly here on winter nights (sub-20 last night). Their range goes down mostly when they have longer stretches of fast driving.

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of the car. It's got lots of glitzy tech stuff but is surprisingly not very comfortable, and fit and finish is pretty poor for a car that listed over $100K when new. It's had to go to the shop several times and it's out of warranty, so repair bills have been high. But it is several years old now (2019 maybe?) and perhaps newer versions have addressed some of those issues.

I would consider an EV for my next purchase (and in fact did when car shopping a year ago - they simply weren't available), but I'd really want to spend time in whatever model I'd consider buying. My experience is mostly limited to my kid's Model X, and it hasn't left a great impression.

[jesmu84]

Just saw a report on NBC News with Lester Holt that said the mileage EVs get is routinely overstated and, under some conditions, by a lot. At 20 degrees or lower the real mileage is approximately 41% lower than advertised.

41% is definitely not an "across the board" figure.

The bigger problem is currently poor infrastructure for DC charging for road trips.

As I do, charging at home nightly makes owning an EV simple. I never worry about range/charging.

[Lennys Tap]

ICE vehicles drop 20-30% of range in temps below 20F

But there are plenty of gas stations and you can fill up in no time.

[jesmu84]

But there are plenty of gas stations and you can fill up in no time.

As I said above, one of the current problems that comes with owning an EV is the lack of charging infrastructure for road trips (or those without home charging ability)

But with regard to the winter range loss? That's known to all current EV owners and should be known to any potential buyers. So, it really shouldn't be a headline

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Plenty of gas stations, but (despite a billion +allocated) not enough charging stations. 3 minutes to fill up in all weather.  For a gas guzzler. An hour for an EV unless it’s really cold, then maybe much more. And 41% less mileage per full charge in cold weather? Not remotely the same. Soooo, dream on

Yes, the EVs should definitely get off your lawn

[Hards Alumni]

Plenty of gas stations, but (despite a billion +allocated) not enough charging stations. 3 minutes to fill up in all weather.  For a gas guzzler. An hour for an EV unless it’s really cold, then maybe much more. And 41% less mileage per full charge in cold weather? Not remotely the same. Soooo, dream on

I hate to tell you this but most people don't use a full tank of gas every day.  Most EV owners charge their cars at night in their garage and that's enough to go for the day.  EVs in their current state are commuter cars.  But since you're not an idiot, you already knew that.  So I guess I don't understand your point.  No one is claiming that EVs in their current state are equivalent to ICEs.

[jesmu84]

I hate to tell you this but most people don't use a full tank of gas every day.  Most EV owners charge their cars at night in their garage and that's enough to go for the day.  EVs in their current state are commuter cars.  But since you're not an idiot, you already knew that.  So I guess I don't understand your point.  No one is claiming that EVs in their current state are equivalent to ICEs.

EVs are stupid.  And super bad. 

[4everwarriors]

If the Buffoon is pushin' 'em, I don't want it, aina?

[tower912]

See, if you and Lenny are against them, I am suddenly much more interested.